Thinking about Quakers

[Radical Activist]

I've been reading up on Quakers and right now I'm reading the book Plain Living by Catherine Whitmire. In some ways, I think I've almost already been a Quaker for several years stemming from my prior religious background and more recent studying of Buddhist principles like non-attachment. I've long been impressed by the work of the AFSC.

I'm having trouble finding a meeting in my home town (there may not be one) but I sent out some emails to people who may be able to help. I'm guessing there are probably some Quakers on DU. Does anyone have suggestions for one or two "essential" books I could read next to learn more? Any other thoughts for someone taking their spiritual journey in a new direction toward this tradition?

[princehal]

1. Welcome Friend

http://www.quaker.org/

Has a lot of information.

http://www.quakerfinder.org/

Will help you find a meeting.

[Radical Activist]

3. Thanks!

Unfortunately quakerfinder.org only lists a meeting time with no location or contact information for my town, but I'll keep looking.

[Ms. Toad]

6. Where is it?

I may be able to ferret out more information for you.

[oneighty]

2. There is likely

a Quaker group listed in your telephone book.

My Grandparents were Travelers in the Society of Friends. They were old school and very strict.

180

[Radical Activist]

4. I'll check.

For some reason the idea that not everything in the world is on the internet slipped my mind. :)

Do you mind if I ask in what way your Grandparents were very strict? I guess I don't know what things Quakers might be strict about other than not having lots of fancy material things or fighting in wars.

[Ms. Toad]

8. In the past many Friends were quite strict

about drinking, gambling, taking oaths, marrying out of meeting, dress (as examples).

Modern day friends in the FGC branch are not very strict about anything; in the EFA branch they are barely distinguishable from a generic evangelical Christian church (including, for many, involvement in the military). The other two branches are sort of in between. AFSC is most closely aligned with the FGC branch.

[China_cat]

15. You missed reading fiction

Since it was made up and therefore a 'lie', it conflicted with the leading of truthfulness.

[Ms. Toad]

16. You're right. I did,

Although I'm not sure anyone was read out of meeting for that :)

[China_cat]

20. No, but you sure could be 'eldered' for it.

[oneighty]

10. Not at all.

They were Quakers in the first half of the last century. Both passed away in the early fifties.

My two sisters and I spent several summers with them in upstate New York in the forties.

They did not approve of radios, telephones, makeup, revealing clothing, card playing, movies, Sunday activities such as children playing, fishing, swimming. Some did not believe in automobiles but would ride in them.

I was under 12 in those years. I remember the summers with them as some of my best times.

180

[Radical Activist]

12. OK

That sounds pretty similar to what I was thinking. Thanks again.

[oneighty]

13. For what it is worth

Our local university has a 'Meeting' group stretching back thirty years that I am aware of. They supported me in a political campaign years ago. They were very loosely organized. Meetings took place in private homes as did my Grandparent's meetings.

Meetings with my grandparents were very boring and mysterious to little 180, but afterwords the food was great!

180

[Ms. Toad]

17. Yeah...

We have soup every week. Unforunately, I just got the call that no one else signed up to make soup for tomorrow so it's time for me to drag out the soup pot.

[oneighty]

18. Only soup?

This was farm country I speak of. Fresh everything and pies and cakes.

Heaven on earth for Lois Eunice and me as at our home good meals were rare.

But I do like soups of all kinds.

180

[Ms. Toad]

19. That's potluck

Once a month - to make sure people are fortified for meeting for business.

[China_cat]

21. Our meeting has a 'frugal meal'

on the meeting for business day.

[Ms. Toad]

22. If we did that

we'd have even fewer folks hang around for meeting for business. Tummy grumblies makes a good excuse for not staying the extra couple of hours.

[Ms. Toad]

5. Here's a couple

My primary recommendation as a starting point (although you will likely have a hard time finding it) is: London Yearly Meeting. CHRISTIAN FAITH AND PRACTICE, 1959. The book is a compilation of Quaker thought over the years, sorted by topic. It is a good accessible overview.

I believe a good substitute is the Britain Yearly Meeting, QUAKER FAITH & PRACTICE, 1994, although I have only briefly had it in my hands. The latter can be be obtained from FGC Bookstore (http://www.quakerbooks.org/).

http://quakerfinder.org/ might help find a meeting near you.

You probably want to avoid anything called a Friends Church. It is likely either Evangelical Friends Alliance (very conservative) or Friends United Meeting (somewhat less conservative, but still pastored and getting more evangelical rather than less over time). Friends General Conference groups(probably called meetings) are less likely to be rigidly Christian, and there is a lot of variety from meeting to meeting. This is probably the group you are looking for (and quakerfinder.org will find the closest meeting). Conservative groups (Iowa would be quite aligned with most folks in DU; those in Ohio less so) may also be compatible. AFSC is most closely tied to Friends General Conference and Conservative Friends; less so to FUM and (last I checked) not at all to EFA.

[Radical Activist]

7. hmm...

I'll look for those readings. Thanks!
I hope if there's one in my area that its more liberal.

[Ms. Toad]

9. You said you found a time

on quakerfinder.org, but no additional information. That likely means it is an FGC meeting - if you let me know general information I may be able to pin it down for you.

[Radical Activist]

11. I sent you a private message

Rather than put my city on the open message board.

[China_cat]

14. Try the Pendle Hill bookstore

http://www.pendlehill.org/

Scroll down for the bookstore but you'll also find a lot of good stuff on that site.

[Odin2005]

23. Wern't Hoover and Nixon Quakers?

:evilgrin:

[greyl]

24. If psychotic genocide against the First Americans doesn't bother you,

Quakers are great.

[manic expression]

25. Hold on

Are you sure the Quakers had such a hand in the genocide? I am very sure the Quakers of PA bought their land from the Native Americans. What is your claim based on?

[greyl]

26. Here's what looks like one fair resource:

http://geijer.nu/quakersandindians.shtml
The page is written by a Quaker, and contains several links.

"Few Swedes know that the wars of extermination against American Indians were followed by "cultural genocide": a strong campaign to erase the culture and society of the Indians. Quakers and other Christian groups took part in this."...

Almost every effort was made to make the Indians feel that their culture was worthless, and that they had to "become white". At the same time, they were not allowed into white society and met with much racism.
One of the worst parts of this campaign was to take Indian children away from their families and send them to boarding schools, often far away from their tribe and relatives. Here, they were at the mercy of grown-ups who all were usually white. They were told from the start that their identity was no good. Often, they were punished if they spoke their own language. They were forced to cut their hair, which can be compared to forcing Swedish boys to wear skirts.
Quakers ran boarding schools too.

Lost her spirit at a Quaker school
At the age of eight, the girl Zitkala-Sa met Quaker missionaries who had come to the reservation where she lived. They were recruiting students for a boarding school, and she went with them.
One of the first days she and all the other new kids had their hair cut forcibly. Zitkala-Sa tried to hide, but she was found and strapped to a chair. Then, her braids fell. In her own words: "Then I lost my spirit."
Later in life, Zitkala-Sa regained her spirit. She became a famous and very important author and activist for Native American rights.

Quakers ran reservations
At the centre of Quaker involvement was a decision by President Grant 1869 to let the Quakers run several Indian reservations. "If you can make Quakers of the Indians, it will take the fight out of them".
At this time, there were hardly any white people who stood up for the Indian's right to their own culture. There were quite a few "philanthropists" who wanted to defend the Indians, but only from being physically exterminated. Even the philanthropists wanted to "civilize" the Indians and make them into whites.
Grant's policy was sometimes called the "Peace Policy" and sometimes called the "Quaker Policy", which indicates the degree of Quaker involvement. Later, other Christian groups were put in charge of reservations as well. After about ten years, the Quakers withdrew from the management of reservations.

The intent was to "civilize"
Lawrie Tatum, one of the Quakers who were given the position as agent (meaning he was in charge of a reservation) writes that every Quaker who went to work on these reservations wanted to "civilize" the Indians.
Here is a quote from Sonja Keohane, a non-Indian:
'This "activity" of saving Indians was cloaked in language that on first blush seems to have been done with "good intentions."
The Quakers and other Christian groups were the moving force behind organizations such as the "Friends of Indians", "Indian Rights Association" and the "National Indian Association."
Yes, these folks were alarmed at the "condition" of Native people, victims of the devastation wrought by whites. Their response was to "Americanize" Indians.
These "good Intentions" had the effect of continued genocide. The boarding schools kidnapped children and prohibited the speaking of Native language. The children were forced to shed their identity by wearing uniforms and wearing their hair in a "white" way.' (end of quote)
more: http://geijer.nu/quakersandindians.shtml

[manic expression]

27. OK

I heard of that before. I think that has some validity to it, but I'll look for some other sources.

Although I'm very aware of the brainwashing "education" forced upon Natives (:puke:), I wasn't aware of the possible Quaker involvement. I'll look into it. Thanks for the info.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. In all fairness, the Quakers weren't the only ones doing that

All the religious groups have a lot to apologize to Native Americans for. :-(

[manic expression]

30. Very true,

sadly enough.

I do think that the Quakers are some of the least guilty of this, if that means anything.

I also think it is worth noting that the Quakers, IIRC, were strong abolitionists.

Yeah, pretty much all the religious groups in the US at the time have quite a bit to apologize for.

[salvorhardin]

29. Quakers...

I heard they don't even have telephones. :evilgrin:
http://fstdt.com/bottom.asp?view=normal#8825