Godless..

[undergroundpanther]

The Atheism part is easy.
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557

Without god you can live...here..now.. It seems and without God you have to WORK to be a good person.Something I find religions have failed miserably to teach people.Virtue cannot be found in books,leaders or churches...Even Plato says You cannot teach anyone virtue...It has to come from within a person,in their choices, in how a person strives to BE virtue.

Any person can be religious,and look to holy books or gods to excuse them or tell them how to behave..look at James Dobson he's religious,Falwell,Ratzinger,or the Mullahs in Iran..they are all religious,they believe in god..but god Has not made them CHOOSE to be virtuous people.Because THEY chose to NOT be virtuous,so they aren't.

Being virtuous is a choice a person makes and decides to become virtue through how they relate..
It's just like being a bully,authoritarian,or tyrant is a choice of what kind of person to be and how you choose to relate.

There is no excuses only choices. and god will not save anyone who is denying the choices they make to be an authoritarian asshole overlaying their vile stench with hypocritical religious posturing and professed belief-isms.They still are pieces of shit no matter how good they think faith makes them look .Faith is easy, standing by your choices and walking your talk is not. Belief in virtue does not make anyone virtuous. It can't.The proof of virtue and ethical wisdom is in what kinds of ethical qualities you choose to embody in your actions words and behaviors, as in WHO YOU ARE..and HOW you choose to interact within the world made of all your relations.

Belief never fixes this failure of a person's ethical wisdom in relationships.
Because it is a choice.

[evlbstrd]

1. You've gotta give Penn Gillette his credit.

[melody]

5. Penn Jillette is every bit as much an authoritarian as Jerry and Pat

So long as he keeps it out of politics, I'm fine by that. If he's about keeping religion out of politics, I'm fine by that, too. He's a fundamentalist of another kind, however, and in their own arena, they are almost as destructive as the Christian kind.

[undergroundpanther]

6. Like I added

Being a decent and respectful member of a relationship, be it with another person or an entire nation is a CHOICE.

Belief or no beliefs in Gods have nothing to do with it.
You choose to be a real freind or you do not choose to be a worthwhile freind.

[melody]

7. UP, comment was just to the one about Penn

Your post was as excellent as always. Nuff said.

[NashVegas]

8. Penn's With the *Cato* Institute?

Oh. My. God.

Unbelievable.

[undergroundpanther]

12. Tyrants can play reasonable

Good cop bad cop all leads to the same thing the pursuit of authoritarian control for the control freaks with no conscience.
A tyrant religious or not is a tyrant.

That's what my point about a person's CHOICE on what kind of person and relationship you have to others was about.

[evlbstrd]

11. I meant credit as author.

[Midwest_Doc]

17. I disagree ...

Penn is not a fundamentalist, nor is he authoritarian. He acknowledges that his position is open to change or modification: That makes him different (ie. better) than the christian fundamentalists.

[annabanana]

2. a good, thoughtful post.

It might help people understand that a one doesn't need to believe in the unseen and ineffable to be a good and moral individual. It is a worldview as honorable as any, and better than many.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. Praise The Lord For All That Is Good.

[annabanana]

4. he don't hafta if he don't wanna. . .eom

[TallahasseeGrannie]

9. Very insightful post

and you are so right: when it is all over you can't blame God. Even if you believe in him, there's that whole free will thing.

Faith does not equal virtue.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

10. Hit the nail on the head.

Thank you.

K&R

[DemExpat]

13. We all have had our bad choices as well, haven't we?

Being virtuous is a choice a person makes and decides to become virtue through how they relate..

.......but what is it that makes some people choose to be a fascist, uncaring asshole as a way of life????? To choose this, and close down all openings to caring while professing deep belief in a compassionate God, or a political ideology??????

I don't get it really.....yet.

DemEx

[undergroundpanther]

14. I think it's several things.

When the resuults are the same regardless of causes, and a personality becomes dangerous and this toxic to other people I think eventually the causes will become moot points especially if there is no way for sociopaths to co exist peacefully and fairly with non sociopaths.
We cannot be free and happy people with a tyrant stomping on us and dictating our lives and ruining every system a society devises to regulate itself..We may have to decide either it's us or them The sociopaths have already decided in favor of themselves and act like bullies accordingly.




http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/123/6/1122

http://groups.msn.com/NarcissismSupportGroupMoralandSpiritualStruggle/silenceofthelambs.msnw


An interesting overview of types
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml

List of used and related concepts and technologies:

Sociopathic disorder - there is a lot of scientific research that reports and analyzes this kind of sociopathic behavior and highlights those characteristics concerning the project's area of interest:
"… The causes of sociopathic disorder have been narrowed to several factors through research. One of the primary causes of sociopathic behavior is believed to be neurological abnormalities mainly in the frontal lobe of the brain. This area of the brain is responsible for "self-control, planning, judgment, the balance of individual versus social needs, and many other essential functions underlying effective social intercourse" is also related to fear conditioning. The abnormal anatomy or chemical activity within this area of the brain may be caused by abnormal growth (possibly genetic), brain disease, or injury. This theory has been supported by much research using positron emission tomography (PET), which visually shows the metabolic activity of neurons within the brain”
" More recently (1997), PET brain imaging technology found that psychopaths differed from non psychopaths in the pattern of relative cerebral blood flow during processing of emotional words. Acquired personality changes due to brain injury are also accompanied by a decrease in the neural activity in the frontal area."

[melody]

15. I've often wondered if we don't need to identify sociopaths early

The worst ones (in fact, most of them) aren't treatable, but at least they can be tracked and learned from. The vast majority of the worst crime and much common suffering stems from them. They certainly shouldn't be allowed to attain high office. The problem is they are often deft at "passing" unless the individuals who encounter him or her have lots of experience with the sociopath in question - or experience with other sociopaths.

[FM Arouet666]

16. Thanks for the post.

I wish fundies could realize that "being religious" does not make you a good person. Of course I mean , "being a religious christian," devout believers of "other" religions are demon spawn.

Your post reminded me of a joke, I may have seen it here on DU.

A man, walking late at night, comes upon another man on a bridge ready to jump to his death.

Stop, the first man (FM) says, "why do you want to end your life?"

The other man (OM) says, "life is not worth living, the end is all I want."

The first man asks, "are you a religious man?"

The other man replies, "yes I am."

(FM) "Are you a christian?"
(OM) "Yes"

(FM) "Me too, What church do you belong to?"
(OM) "The Baptist church."

(FM) "I am a Baptist, but do you mean the Southern Baptists?"
(OM) "Why, Yes, the Southern Baptist church."

(FM) "The reformed Southern Baptist church?"
(OM) "Yes, I am a member of the reformed Baptist church?"

(FM) "You mean the church over on first and park avenue?"
(OM) "No, I am a member of the church on Elm and third."

(FM) "Well then, go ahead and jump you heretic scum........."



:evilgrin:

[Goldensilence]

18. nice...

your posts have always been insightful since i have visited and i've learned that most of the time it's not so much as having something to say it's also the ability to listen to what others say.

Peace n respect to you.

[PassingFair]

19. Unfortunately, our society REWARDS sociopaths...

on a day to day basis, and the average sociopath doesn't quite understand that reactions like revolutions are guaranteed if the selfish behavior isn't checked some other way.

In the meantime, the compassionate among us MUST learn the meaning of the phrase "virtue is its own reward". It truly is, but it is a state of mind, more than anything else....