NY elementary school teacher apologizes to 2nd grade classroom after telling them there is no Santa

[cleanhippie]

NANUET — After widespread holiday jeers, a teacher at Nanuet's George W. Miller Elementary School has apologized to her second-grade classroom after reportedly telling them there's no Santa Claus.

Leatrice Ann Eng of Pearl River issued the apology a day after she was accused of saying "no" to Ho-Ho-Ho during a geography class last Tuesday.

When the 7-year-olds told her they knew about the North Pole because of its white-bearded inhabitant, Eng reportedly responded that Santa did not exist and that Christmas presents were bought by their parents.

The alleged incident attracted widespread media coverage. The school and district offices fielded questions about the story last week that led to more than a few comparisons of Eng with Ebenezer Scrooge.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20111205/NEWS03/112050319/Teacher-apologizes-over-Santa-faux-pas?odyssey=nav|head

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It's a sad day when a teacher has to apologize for telling the truth about the world we live in.


Maybe parents shouldn't be lying to their kids? Just a thought.

[monmouth]

1. One of my biggest joys when my children were young was their belief

in Santa Clause. If nothing else it kept them on good behavior for a few weeks. This teacher should be disciplined and I don't blame the parents for being furious at all. Your thoughts about parents shouldn't be lying to their kids is a sad thought.

[darkstar3]

3. So, let me just make sure I have this right,

lying to your children is OK, because if nothing else it makes them behave better?

[monmouth]

10. It made them happy and put some magic in their young lives...n/t

[darkstar3]

13. Easy enough to do without lies.

What happens when they learn the truth?

[cleanhippie]

15. Perhaps it made YOU happy and put "magic" in YOUR life?

Magic, huh?

Thats just what the world needs more of.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virgogal]

4. Now my grandchildren no longer believe. Some of the magic has

gone out of Christmas for me.

This teacher should be ashamed of herself.

[cleanhippie]

7. What is "magical" about lying to children?

:shrug:

[virgogal]

14. If you don't get it,you don't get it. No explanation would suffice. eom

[cleanhippie]

16. No, I do not "get it", but I would LOVE to hear your justification for lying to children.

I won't even respond to it, so please, enlighten me...

:popcorn:

[AsahinaKimi]

17. Why does this all remind me of

the movie Miracle on 34th Street? Seems, that I remember, that little girl was miserable in the film until she discovered "the magic".

[cleanhippie]

19. Thats was fiction, you know.

[AsahinaKimi]

22. OF course it was!!!

BUT it was as "FEEL GOOD" MOVIE too... maybe we shouldn't have feel good movies anymore..lets all have reality based miserable ones!!! YAY!!!

[cleanhippie]

24. I guess I am not seeing the correlation then.

Movies are well, movies. They are not real. Do we tell our children that Ariel (The little mermaid) is REAL? That talking penguins are REAL? That zoo animals are talking, sentient beings?


Fell-good movies are DESIGNED to make one feel good. What does that have to do with this teacher giving FACTS about the Arctic?

[AsahinaKimi]

25. "Fell good movies are Designed to make one feel good..."

And are of course lies!!! We don't want to tell kids lies, so lets not take our kids to disney movies anymore!! Lets show them the real world!! NO more COMIC books, no more Fantasy art, and fairy tale movies like Shrek! Its lying to our kids!!
No more reading stories, and in fact, lets get rid of Games... and ALL FORMS OF ENTERTAINMENT that are LIES. MAYBE kids should no longer grow up with "feel good" things because its all LIES!!!

What kind of sterile world do you want us to live in? OMG!!! IF they are told lies, they might believe in some kind of religion!


You don't see a connection? wow....

[cleanhippie]

29. Are you being this obtuse on purpose?

Are you really telling me that there is no difference between the FICTION that is movies and comics and the myriad other things you listed and the LIE that parents perpetuate over the first DECADE or more of a child's life to control their behavior?

Really?

[AsahinaKimi]

56. Sorry that you are

Just not seeing it! Enjoy the day!

[cleanhippie]

57. I'm seeing that you are making a false equivalency.

Its too bad that YOU do not see that.

[AsahinaKimi]

60. mata ne!

Thanks for the chat.

[cleanhippie]

61. My Japanese is a bit rusty, but it sounds like you are running away.

離れて実行しない、のはより多くの話をしましょう

[cleanhippie]

6. Wow, advocating the use of lies and deceit to control the behavior of your children.

Despicable.

:puke:

[monmouth]

8. Despicable? Hardly...n/t

[cleanhippie]

11. Using lies and deceit is not despicable?

Who knew?

What a very progressive thing that must be.

[MarkCharles]

53. Republicans do it all the time, and get away with it! So does...

Fox News. And I'm sure few people here like THOSE kinds of lies and deceit.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. Bah! Humbug!

[WolverineDG]

5. The teacher crossed the line

It's up to the parents what to tell their kids about Santa (or God for that matter).

dg

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[darkstar3]

12. Why?

We require teachers to impart all kinds of difficult facts to children.

[WolverineDG]

37. There are things that should be left up to the parents

Your personal belief that there is no God does not make that a fact.

dg

[cleanhippie]

39. It's a LACK of belief and this is not about god.

But you know that. Don't let those facts get in the way now. You have ready demonstrated that facts interrupt your beliefs.

[WolverineDG]

51. And it's your personal belief, right?

I know, based on the yelling & screaming in this forum, how you would feel if a teacher told your child that he/she'd go to hell for not believing in God (which is also the wrong thing to do), so why aren't you willing to extend that same courtesy to kids of believers? Ah, that's right, you believe (there's that word again) that we're inferior to you & so it's ok to trample on our parental authority.


dg

[cleanhippie]

58. Uhm, no.

Ah, that's right, you believe (there's that word again) that we're inferior to you & so it's ok to trample on our parental authority.

DO you just make this all up as you go along, or what?


Isn't there something in YOUR beliefs about not bearing false witness? I'm pretty sure there is, and that its important, right?

[darkstar3]

40. Are there? And what are those things? What group or board decided them?

It sounds to me like the same argument every un-engaged public school parent makes. "Teach my kids everything for me...WAIT! I'm uncomfortable with that topic!"

[laconicsax]

33. So you agree that both Santa and God are imaginary. n/t

[WolverineDG]

38. Didn't say that

Your belief that there is no God does not make it a fact.

dg

[darkstar3]

43. Who said anything about belief?

It's the awesome lack of evidence and incredible nature of the claims made about him that put God into the "really damn unlikely" category of logical conclusions.

[laconicsax]

47. Oh yeah?

How do you explain a beautiful sunrise or a child's laughter, hmm? Explain that with your cold, atheist physics!

:rofl:

[WolverineDG]

52. Your personal belief nt

[cleanhippie]

54. Does it make you feel better to have the last word, no matter how nonsensical it is?

:rofl:


Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, right?

[darkstar3]

67. Keep thinking that. It clearly helps you avoid reality.

[msongs]

18. without Santa that religion would wither and die lol. bad teacher nt

[NMMNG]

20. ...

[cleanhippie]

21. +1

[Deep13]

23. For my sister it has gone from the parents lying about Santa to the daughter doing so.

When my niece was ELEVEN she still claimed to believe in Santa and my sister took her at her word. I think the neice was just afraid that the party would be over if she admitted that she knew it was fiction.

[Sal316]

26. So...

...making children cry, crushing their hopes and dreams, and dismissing their imagination as "silly nonsense" in the name of "truth" is the right thing to do?

Wow.

[darkstar3]

27. Those who start the Santa lie set that eventuality in motion.

Either the parents will "crush their hopes and dreams", or someone else will. So who here is really the problem?

[Sal316]

28. Who?

The people that think this:




...is more important than letting kids enjoy the mystery and wonder of Christmas.

[darkstar3]

30. There's plenty of wonder in the conglomeration of holidays around the Solstice

without lies. I would say that those who set their children up for such an awful realization are the real problem, and I don't see how there's any way around that, no matter how much "mystery" you wish to invoke.

[Sal316]

36. Sometimes....

....there are things more important than being right.

[darkstar3]

41. I'm not the one setting up children for disillusionment,

and the depression that comes from knowing that sometimes people will lie straight to your face on purpose for no good reason.

Seems to me like the important thing is preserving their innocence, not ensuring its demise.

[skepticscott]

70. That seems a bit overblown

The Santa Claus fantasy is one that children enjoy in its time, and one that ALL children not only grow out of (usually on their own), and more importantly are ALLOWED to grow out of. Maybe there's a little bit of disillusionment at some moment in there, but I think the fun outweighs it, and I'm not aware of any children being permanently harmed by any of it. If parents were still forcing their kids to believe in Santa Claus and adhere to the fantasy when they were 14 or 15, then the whole thing might smack of harmful indoctrination, but (unlike with religion) I've never heard of any parents doing that.

[darkstar3]

72. So my six-year-old cousin, whose eleven-year-old sister informed her of the truth

had a completely overblown reaction?

It's all fun and games until someone fucks up your timetable.

[skepticscott]

73. If she's still traumatized at 8 or 18

then there might be a case for comparing this to the kind of lies told as part of organized religion. But I'm guessing she'll recover nicely, if she hasn't already.

[darkstar3]

74. Trauma? I'm sure that's one word I never used.

Let me see if I can put this a different way: There are many firsts in life that we will remember, and the first time you find out people will lie to you just because they can is one of them.

[cleanhippie]

32. Oh, please tell me more about the "mystery and wonder of Christmas."

Considering that it's all about compulsary consumerism and an attemp by religion to co-op pagan observances, I fail to see your point.

[cleanhippie]

31. If you think THAT is what is happening here, our children are screwed.

[laconicsax]

34. Is it not true that Santa doesn't exist?

:shrug:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

63. I cannot believe that this discussion is being had.

How is it that grown adults are seriously arguing over the existence of Santa Claus? Until just now, I thought it was uncharitable to compare the belief in God to the belief in Santa Claus, but here we see the same arguments, the same rhetoric, the same concern about tone, as in the god/no-god debate. This is like something out of Alice in Wonderland.

How is it the fault of those who don't believe in Santa Claus that these kids become disillusioned? We didn't make up the lie, and no amount of our pretending to believe in it is going to stop kids from finding out.

[cleanhippie]

64. Glad you are seeing the similarities.

Welcome to the enlightenment.

[rug]

35. She should have made them sit under The Tree of Knowledge.

[cleanhippie]

42. That's a better alternative than sitting in church or Sunday school.

[rug]

45. That's a matter of opinion.

[cleanhippie]

46. I don't see how facts could opinion.

[Angry Dragon]

48. There is no lie in a belief

Beliefs are as real as emotions

[darkstar3]

49. I see it right there in the word.

[Angry Dragon]

62. Good one

[laconicsax]

50. Umm...

belief

[edhopper]

55. Well,

The whole baby Jesus in the manger thing is just as much a fairy tale as Santa anyway.

[cleanhippie]

59. Shhhh. You gonna ruin the "magic"!!!!

[elocs]

65. Thanks for the thread. It's nice to learn how pathetic some DUers are.

Evidently some had a brutally honest and cheerless childhood.

[darkstar3]

66. Right, because that's the logical result of advocating that parents not lie to their children.

:wtf:

[cleanhippie]

68. It is pathetic to think that there are DUers that advocate lying to children to control behavior.

It seems that you may be in that group. Am I reading you right?

[NMMNG]

71. When I was little my mother taught me many truths

One of them was that corporations don't really care about you. They only want to sell their product and make $$$. Until then I thought that McDonalds did it all for me. Maybe I should be mad at her for destroying the magic.

[Dorian Gray]

69. I feel like I'm on Mars while

reading this thread. Bizarro-world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. Can someone tell me if it's OK to compare Santa to fairies at the bottom of the garden?

There's a sizeable contingent that thinks that comparing Santa to Jesus is Out Of Bounds; and another contingent that thinks Santa belief gets the same constitutional protections as religion - ie schools must not say anything about it (I presume that contingent thinks comparing Santa to Jesus is AOK, as long as it isn't a school making the comparison), and it's up to parents to control what children hear about them, and when.

But it seems to me that childhood beliefs in fairies are on a par with Santa - the vast majority of adults accept they're just a story to entertain children. Is there are age at which schools are OK with telling children that fairies aren't real? Is it the same age as Santa? If a second grade child said "there are fairies at the bottom of my garden" in a discussion about growing things, should the teacher disabuse them of this idea?