French suburbs turn away from state and towards Islam

[rug]

Local communities in France's immigrant suburbs increasingly organise themselves on Islamic lines rather than following the values of the secular republic, according to a major new sociological study.

Mon, 5 December 2011
Thibauld Malterre / AFP / Expatica

Paris -- Respected political scientist Gilles Kepel, a specialist in the Muslim world, led a team of researchers in a year-long project in Clichy-sous-Bois and Montfermeil, two Paris suburbs that exploded in riots in 2005.

The resulting study -- "Suburbs of the Republic" -- found that religious institutions and practices are increasingly displacing those of the state and the French Republic, which has a strong secular tradition.

Families from the districts, which are mainly populated by immigrants from north and west Africa and their descendants, regularly attend mosque, fast during Ramadan and boycott school meals that are not "halal".

With between five and six million Muslim residents and citizens, France has the largest Islamic population in the European Union, and central government often struggles to address the challenges to integration that this poses.

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/local_news/French-suburbs-turn-away-from-state-and-towards-Islam_187184.html

[alp227]

1. Sad. This is what enables the right wing.

The funny thing is that "cultural preservation" is not in the constitution (US) AT ALL (and maybe neither in France's declaration of the rights of man and citizen) yet CONs whine about preserving "our culture" all the time whether in the US or EU.

I'm all for religious and cultural freedom as long as adherents won't infringe on everyone else's civil rights. I think that the French Muslims want to practice their religion in a different environment than the Islamic nations because of the economic benefits of being in Europe.

[darkstar3]

2. They can isolate themselves if they want, but as soon as they start believing

they should be held to a different set of laws than other residents it's going to become a rather nasty problem.

These people would also do well to take note of immigrant communities in the USA that tried the same thing. Just ask the Bosnians or Nicaraguans who moved to Saint Louis (where I was until not long ago) what happens when they isolate themselves. The results are not pretty.

[closeupready]

3. So what.

I don't especially care if their immigrants want to live freely, as they wish. The French obviously see that as cause for concern, since they no longer believe in 'liberte, egalite, fraternite' as they once did.

K&R

[DonCoquixote]

4. There is nothing in the Koran

that condemns liberty, fraternity and equality, sadly, some on both sides of the mosque forget that.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Have you read the Koran? nt

[DonCoquixote]

8. Yes

and if you have, please find where it bans "liberte fraternte et egalitie?"

[ZombieHorde]

9. Surah 4 advocates sexual intolerance.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/004.asp

4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

4:16 If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

[closeupready]

7. Yes, I know that; I have many muslim friends, none of whom have killed me.

:D :hi: (yet! ;) )

[LeftishBrit]

11. It's their right; but a bit of a pity for both sides

Mind you, as you say, if the French go around blaming immigrants for their problems and voting for people like LePen and his daughter, they can't be too surprised if the immigrant communities show increased self-segregation.

[closeupready]

12. Yes, it is. I confess to a bit of schadenfreude observing this from across the pond, knowing

that the French imposed their ways on their colonies, and continue to exploit the Third World with impunity, literally. So, this is not quite what can be referred to as payback, but maybe 'sauce for the goose'.

[LeftishBrit]

13. True; but I'm not sure that either my country or yours is in a position to throw too many stones

over such matters.

[closeupready]

14. Neither you nor I are nations, though. We are entitled to our opinions.

That's democracy. :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

6. Bwahahahaha! nt

[LeftishBrit]

10. Rather depressing

But I think some of it's a reaction to French xenophobia. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that.

No problem with people attending mosque (or church/synagogue/etc) and following their religious traditions. People of all faiths do the same. A bit of a problem if it's associated with self-segregation, however.