Do most Jews believe that the OT is literal fact,

[Disturbed]

"the word of God'?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. Gosh, no

not the ones I know. Some of the most devout people I know are Jewish.

[Bumblebee]

15. C'mon. Even in Israel almost 90% are secular. Most Jews I know --

including myself -- are "cultural" Jews, not religious Jews.

But the picture of Hitler is unnecessary...

[valerief]

16. Where is this picture of Hitler to which everyone is referring?

[Bumblebee]

20. the very first message

[valerief]

21. Thanks. Looks like it's gone now.

[Bumblebee]

22. no, it's still there. Hitler leaving a cathedral.

It's in the post itself

[valerief]

23. It's not visible to me. I'll check my settings.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

36. Well what exactly do you mean by "secular"?

The Jews I know attend Temple on Friday night and I can't tell you the number of bar/bat mitzvahs I have attended. They observe the holidays.

Now about their private prayer life and such, I don't know.

[Cassandra]

3. If I were you, I'd duck

Personally I'm not religious but many Jews are and the number of religious Jews appears to be growing. You've managed, I assume unintentionally, to post a rather insulting question.

[valerief]

9. I didn't mean any offense.

It's just that all the Jewish people I've known over the years have been atheists, except for one guy that was heavily religious.

Sorry, but I can't change my life experience to suit people's religious beliefs.

[Cassandra]

11. I don't expect you to change your life experience...

but there was probably a more sensitive way of asking your question. Very religious Jews don't mingle much with non-Jews, or even with less religious Jews.
In my life experience I haven't met many Amish ( as an example) but I try not to extrapolate from my limited experience to make any sweeping comments about the Amish.

[valerief]

14. I think the chance of meeting a Jewish person is greater than that

of meeting an Amish person, unless you're in Amish Country.

I kind of get the impression that you're implying that atheism is a really, really bad thing. All the people I've known who were born Jewish and live as atheists never gave me that impression.

I recognize that there are pockets of very religious people that cut across all organized religions, but I rarely run into them. Most people I've known have been atheists or a member of a religion in name only.

[Cassandra]

18. I don't have a problem with atheists

[valerief]

19. I don't have a problem with religious people.

I guess we're cool.

[villager]

4. why is there a picture of Hitler mixed in with that question?

n/t

[Cassandra]

7. An unfortunate juxtaposition of question...

and sig line.

[Cassandra]

5. The word of God, yes

Literal fact, not necessarily. Hasids take the 613 commandments very seriously but I'm not sure they take the more metaphorical aspects of Holy Scripture literally.
Those of us who are food Jews think it is part metaphor and part history and don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

[rosesaylavee]

6. I find the image of Hitler with your question

to be highly offensive. Explain your choice please.

[ray of light]

10. it IS offensive and I'm not even Jewish!!!

[valerief]

17. Where's the pic of Hitler? I didn't one anywhere.

[rosesaylavee]

29. It was removed from the original post. n/t

[Betsy Ross]

8. Yes

Religious Jews believe it is the word of G-d. Literal? The TaNaCh(Torah, five books of Moses; Neviim, prophets; and Ketuvim, writings)has meaning so far beyond the literal.

[cloud_chaser1]

12. Jews believe

the Torah and full Tanach (OT is a Christian term) is a livuing document with as much to say today as it had thousands of years ago.
We Jews do not believe the stories to be literal fact. They are merely ways to teach lessons. The tales are also early literate man's attempt to explain things despite a lack of a full vocabulary as we have today. The writers of Torah wrote explanations as best they could with the words they had. But the lessons are more important than ther stories themselves. For instance, it makes no matter that Samson beat the Philistines wih the jawbone of an ass. It could have been a horse's jawbone or a giraffe's legbone. The important part is the reason this single man was able to defeat a whole army. The same thing with Samson's strength being in his hair. His strength could have been anywhere. The lesson of the story deals with his faith that gave him his strength. I coiuld give you dozens of examples, including the first Chapters of Genesis.

As to our being atheists, I have no clue where you got that idea. It is true that after WW2, many Jews lost their faith because G-d seemingly did nothing to save them from the Nazis. But the majority of Jews remain devout and will always be so. In part it is because it is our faith that enables us to survive all manner of trials and tribulations. It is our faith that gives us our reason for living and for giving, despite what is done to us or is thought about us.

So many people point to the idea that we are "Chosen" without really knowing what that means. And in view of all that has happened to us, there is a joke......If we are truly the Chosen Ones, next time, please, choose someone else!

[aquart]

28. Well, dear, the whole thing is: Chosen to do WHAT?

The chosen one is usually the sacrifice in ancient religion.

Isn't that nice to know?

Perhaps we should explain to the tourists about Jewish humor.

[cloud_chaser1]

33. Chosen to do what?

Sewe what I mean about not understanding? Jews were not "chosen" to do anything. The term refers to the fact that Jews were the first to accept the concept of a single G-d who reigns above all and for being first, they reportedly were selected as favorite. Not to do anything but to be beneficiaries of a constant, never ending blessing.
No, Jews were not selected as candidates to DO anything. That we do a great deal stems from our ability to do a great deal, create fine art, develop medicines, write music, entertain, cure, think, and.....survive.

[Darranar]

39. No, the Jewish people are not the "favorite" of God.

In fact, traditionally they are held to a higher standard than other peoples.

The concept of Chosen-ness is that Jews were chosen - perhaps arbitrarily, perhaps not - to recieve God's teaching and to follow it. What the implications of this are depends on who one asks.

[cloud_chaser1]

34. "Chosen To do what?"

See what I mean about not understanding the concept of being chosen.
Jews were not "chosen" to do anything. The term CHOSEN actually refers to being specially blessed. You see Judaism is the first religion to accept the concept of a single, all seeing and all knowing G-d. Prior tio that, the pagan religions worshipped a separate God for everything, rain, sunshine, darkness, etc etc.
In accepting the ONE true G-d, G-d in turn, gave Jews a special blessing or covenant if you will. It would be forever and could never been replaced. It ensures our survival. That Jews contribute greatly to the betterment of the world comes from their committment to education. This anables us to excel in all fields, medicine, law, philosophy, music, art, literature, etc etc. and yes, even humor.

[aquart]

40. Yeah. The specially blessed one was the sacrifice.

You offer the best you have to receive the best. Giving to get. The unblemished calf and the unblemished king. Chosen for God.

You can parse the 'chosen' comment with all the teachings of the Talmud, but 'chosen' means you walk into the fire first.

[aquart]

13. There is NO "most Jews."

But if you are able to find two Jews who agree about anything, please let me know.

Yeah, I'm with the ones who find that question obtuse, insulting, dumb, whatever.

Did God sit down and write Numbers? Did God author Ecclesiastes, my favorite book? If God wrote the Song of Solomon, kudos to God. That's one sexy poem.

This is the compilation of our history, our journey, and most especially, our relationship with our God.

God didn't need to write it. God only has to interfere when the people can't be trusted to witness their own story.

Our story, filtered thru our perceptions, our pain, our hope, our grief. This is our relationship, and the obligations we have undertaken to honor it.

Go read your own damn book.

[Disturbed]

24. The Hitler photo is my sig thing.

I didn't leave it to antogonize any Jewish posters. I went back and took it off for now. My question is one of curiousity only. No agenda, really.

[cloud_chaser1]

25. What does hitler have to do with your original question?

:shrug:

[aquart]

26. I didn't ask about it and never saw it.

You might want to examine your approach to things. Especially those things you're "curious" about.

[Bumblebee]

27. I for one am sure you don't have any agenda. Don't worry!

[ray of light]

30. Thank you for removing it.

[Disturbed]

31. Once again to clarify the Hitler photo.

It is my usual sig. Some get it and some don't. It had nothing to do with my inquiry here at this forum. When I posted I didn't realize that the photo would be tied to the inguiry. Afterward, I realized that it may be seen as part of the post and I went to my profile and removed it. I will add it back for other posts though.

[ray of light]

35. yeh, that's ok. But I'm glad you are clarifying the situation.

I'm sure the juxtaposition was accidental, and I'm sure you have that picture there to remind people of Bush's similarity to that other leader.

Just so you know...when you put your picture back, I think it goes back on all your posts. So you may want to self-delete your question here in this thread at that point.

[intheflow]

32. Disturbed..

The law of unintended consequences reared it's ugly head and you responded appropriately and with haste. Thanks for removing the photo from your sig line.

[mzteris]

37. Given Christian Fundamentalists POV

I think this is a legitimate question!

IMO - People are WAY too sensitive when ever the word "Jewish" is written.

I never did see a definitive answer to your question.

I know that not all "Jewish" people are in fact, practicing the Jewish religion.

I know that not all Jewish people who DO practice the Jewish religion - practice the SAME "sect/branch(?)" (much like Christians have everything from snakehandlers to Orthodox Greek to Baptists to Coptics).

So maybe the question should be, is there a branch of Judiasm that does believe that the Torah is the infallible "Word of God" in the same way that some branches of Christianity do?

And while we're on that topic, what about the Muslims (or rather, any branch of Islam?)

(whew - hoping I haven't ticked off anyone.)

[Darranar]

38. Almost no Jew believes in a strictly literal interpretation of the Tanakh.

The Rabbinic teachings contradict such an interpretation.

[Disturbed]

41. Thanks to all who replied.

I learn a lot by reading posts here.