Thanks the Medical Experts, Not God

[cleanhippie]

6-year-old Cody Grundstrom nearly drowned on Monday:

--snip--

So how did he make it out alive? His dad has an explanation:

“It’s a God thing. I would never have said that four days ago,” said Cody’s father, Kevin Grundstrom, 40, on Wednesday. “But if you could have seen that water. …”

A “God thing”?!

--snip--

And yet, if you read on to the very next paragraph, there’s a perfectly rational explanation as to why Cody was saved:

In Cody’s corner: the timely arrival of his parents, the alert sounded by his sister and the luck of having two trained emergency responders from Salt Lake City nearby. Talli Torgersen, an emergency-room nurse at Primary Children’s, and her husband, Jay, a fire captain with Unified Fire Authority and expert in swift-water rescues, were at the falls with their own children.

“Those two people saved Cody’s life,” Kevin Grundstrom said.

…

Talli Torgersen said it took 30 seconds of chest compressions before Cody vomited and two to three minutes more until he could breathe on his own.

He was still unconscious when they strapped him to a lawn chair and carried him to the Torgersens’ vehicle, in which they had an IV kit. Ten to 15 minutes later, a ranger arrived with oxygen.

With Cody so well-cared for, “By the time the ambulance arrived, there was almost nothing more they could do,” said Jenney Grundstrom, who flew with Cody to Primary Children’s in a helicopter.

“Those two people saved Cody’s life.” Yes! Those two, not a god! They’re the ones responsible for saving Cody! God had nothing to do with it! Doesn’t the dad see that he’s contradicting himself?! And why is the newspaper playing along?! And why is the girl from Twilight writing this article? (Oh. Different spelling. Got it.)

While we’re at it, if God is responsible for saving Cody, then God also deserves the blame for letting six other children drown in Utah over the past month, right?

How come that’s not mentioned in the piece?

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/06/23/thanks-the-medical-experts-not-god/

[Raschel]

1. Why do you have a problem with the dad wanting to credit God?

So what.

[rfranklin]

3. Because he should be thanking the people who actually saved his son...

Not too much to ask is it?

[Raschel]

4. How do you know that he didn't? I'm of the opinion that I'm sure he did.

[cleanhippie]

5. Since you could not be bothered to read the article, I will post the link for you again.

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/06/23/thanks-the-medical-experts-not-god/

[Raschel]

10. And again. What is your issue with this dad?

[The Magistrate]

12. As A General Proposition, Ma'am

Statements of this sort require assent to the supposition that the deity kills deliberately any number of drowned children, who find no rescue or effective emergency treatment. One seldom hears, at least here, of people who, on learning of a loved one's death in some accident or misadventure, respond with a cry that 'God killed my baby!'

[rfranklin]

2. Yes, God can be a complete asshole at times...

but it's usually something you've said or done to piss him off that gets him going.

[roguevalley]

23. actually, God doesn't do anything. we have free will. we do or not

whatever we do. kids drowned. what safety issues weren't taken care of, where were the parents, etc. Unless someone has the video of God drowning the kids, he is not guilty.

I am tired of people blaming shit on God. God is love. People make mistakes, do things wrong, forget shit. Don't blame it on God. he lets you do what you want. You have to man up and take the consequences for what you do. Its like blaming the devil for what shit you do. YOU did it. Not anyone or anything else.

If a man feels he wants to thank someone besides the doctors I say BRAVO! Unless you have been there in a crisis and faced hell, you can't judge. Been there, done that. Of course, in my opinion. :)

[humblebum]

6. Only atheists don't thank God on occasion and an atheist is

the only one such a response would be expected to come from. However, that doesn't mean that the humans involved should not be thanked also, but even they thank God sometimes. The only ones I would really care to take issue with are the atheists who complain about people who thank God.

[Ninjaneer]

7. With all the reading you do, you'd think your reading comprehension would go up.

The OP is taking issue with people not giving credit where credit is due.

[humblebum]

8. I am responding to the post and the article. nt

[okasha]

9. Which people would those be?

The OP quotes Kevin Gundstrom as saying "Those two people saved Cody's life." That sounds pretty much to me as if he's giving them credit.

[cleanhippie]

15. Tell me how I am bashing a whole group because of the actions of one.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Go on, you can do it!

[nichomachus]

11. When I was an EMT

We got a call one day for a cardiac arrest. We got there in about 8 minutes, which was pretty good time.

Normally, we would expect the husband -- the victim was a relatively young woman -- to be doing CPR at the direction of 9-1-1. Instead, he was on his cell phone calling his prayer group.

We were too late. Had he done CPR instead of praying, who knows what might have happened?

[humblebum]

13. Any normal person religious or not would have attempted CPR,

unless his composure was such that he was unable to think clearly in a crisis, which is very common in situations like that.

[nichomachus]

14. I don't know about that

A lot of religious people have some wacky ideas.

[cleanhippie]

16. You have no basis whatsoever to make a claim like that. It's a total fabrication.

Or you can supply a study that looked at this type of thing. Or is this one of those "other" ways of knowing? :rofl:

[humblebum]

17. Like, maybe, the one incidence says something about the character of the whole group?

Experience in these types of situations and education give ample insight into how individuals might respond in any given situation.

[cleanhippie]

18. I don't know what you mean. Can you give an example of that?

And I notice that you have nothing to say about your total fabrication of your claim above. Care to stay on topic by providing a link to a study that supports your claim, or was it fabricated?

[cleanhippie]

19. Since we both know you fabricated that claim and will not provide evidence for it, I did it for you.

And you DID, in fact, fabricate your claim.


A 2008 online study of more than 1,100 adults found that only 21 percent were confident in their abilities to perform CPR and only 15 percent could operate an AED. Out of this same group, 89 percent said they would be willing and able to do something to help if they witnessed an emergency situation. Many respondents expressed lack of confidence, concern about legal consequences and fear of harming the victim as reason they would not take action in an emergency.

http://www.citizensreport.org/2009/06/16/most-americans-don%E2%80%99t-know-cpr/


So there you have it. 21% of Americans know CPR. Thats not "most", nor is it many. It's actually very few.



Let's review your post, shall we?

Any normal person religious or not would have attempted CPR


SO what have we learned here? We learned that only 21% of Americans know CPR well enough to be able to use it, and that you fabricated a claim, and when called on it, refused to provide evidence to support your fabricated claim.

You also said in your response to me asking for evidence to support your claim, and I quote, "Like, maybe, the one incidence says something about the character of the whole group?". Does that mean I can use YOU as an example of one incidence that says something about the character of an entire group?


:nuke:

[humblebum]

20. You just validated my claim. It only stands to reason that the person would have to know

how to do CPR before they would administer it on their own. However,"89 percent said they would be willing and able to do something to help if they witnessed an emergency situation." Those are the ones of whom most would follow instructions given by a dispatcher. Nowhere did I refer to the percentage of those who actually knew how to administer CPR on their own. The situation posed involved those who could follow instructions over the phone. Learn to read.

[cleanhippie]

21. "Willing to do something" is not what you fabricated.

:rofl:



more fail

[dimbear]

22. You might erroneously call that a negligent homicide, but

the justification for his actions are clear. Trusting the 911 operator was a chancy thing, might or might not have worked, but trusting the prayer group was sure. The Bible promises it.