Confronting John Boehner

[Thats my opinion]

Here is the text of an open letter signed by 75 prominent Catholic priests, nuns and theologians upon the Speaker's commencement address at the Catholic University of America, where he was awarded an honorary degree last month.


"Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance with one of the Church's most ancient moral teachings. From the apostles to the present the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obligated to preference the needs of he poor."

Anybody else managed to speak up?

[Angry Dragon]

1. It hardly pays when the person being spoken to has

their fingers in their ears and only hears the call of their Master...........

[Jim__]

2. It's good that they did that.

The more people, and especially prominent people, speak up, the more chance there is for change.

[RKP5637]

3. Frankly, I don't think Boehner has the capacity to care. n/t

[Voice for Peace]

4. maybe Jesus will put the scare into him.

[trotsky]

5. "Anybody else managed to speak up?"

Haven't heard much from the other ~40,000 priests, ~60,000 nuns, and who knows how many theologians who also make up the Catholic Church in America.

But hey, those 75 are pretty cool.

[okasha]

6. American nuns in general

have been so outspoken on social justice and peace issues that they're being "visited" (investigated) by emissaries from the Vatican. Heh--I'd like to see some of the Ursulines who taught me get hold of the inquisitors. There wouldn't be much left but a wet spot on the carpet.

[dmallind]

7. It's a start.

Shame that the message was diluted by an invitation and honorary degree by others, but anything like this is genuinely good.

[Angry Dragon]

8. Your post is mostly worthless if you do not intend to

participate in it once it is posted..........

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Angry Dragon]

14. There are parts of religion that serve a purpose.

However religion can not be the end all to live in society.

[Thats my opinion]

19. I posted an answer

which I thought was pretty good and rather mild. But for reasons I don't know, it didn't get through. See my reply below to Skepticscott

[LeftishBrit]

9. Excellent; but I doubt that Boehner will listen.

[skepticscott]

10. Ironic that the one quote you cherry picked

is so at odds with so much of the history of the Catholic church, using fear and guilt to squeeze every cent they could out of poor and rich alike, so that an elite few could be sure to enjoy every luxury of life.

[Thats my opinion]

11. there are two traditions

which run on parallel tracks throughout the history of Catholicism. I will be saying a lot more about the one that gets less attention. The dual emphases are similar to those which run through most historic movements--including US history. To understand any history one must look at both sides. What I cited is not "at odds" or simply "cherry picked," but runs parallel to the other branch of the Catholic faith. In our community there are about 15 former religious sisters, lay sisters and three priests--two of them Jesuits. They would feel the same way you and I do about the right-wing version of Catholic history. Did you ever hear of John XIII? Hardly a liberal cherry to be picked.

[Angry Dragon]

13. That's nice

Now tell us about the pope, the cardinals, the bishops, all the people living in Vatican City.

The now pope is the former head of the catholic inquisition office. Just with a name change.
There is good and bad in every organization. When the top is corrupt one must really
question the direction of the organization.

Should the people of the catholic church break away from the corrupt leaders??
What would you tell them??

[Thats my opinion]

15. Good honest response

Ratsinger (sp?) has a long history of right-wing duplicity. He has little respect from the multitude of Catholics I know. Many of them can no longer worship in RC churches. They are torn about what to do. One of them is probably the world's leading woman theologian.
She has long since organized--with others--the ordination of women priests. Change sometimes occurs from outside, but it also can occur from those who stay inside. Please give me room in the coming weeks to spell out what is happening in Catholicism, which I know about even though I am not of that persuasion or anything near it. I do honor much of its history, and dishonor other parts of it.

[Angry Dragon]

16. All of my responses are good honest ones

What do you honor of its history??

[Thats my opinion]

17. I'll be talking about that over time. It is not something that can be covered in a short response

[Angry Dragon]

18. If you want to do it that way then put it out as an OP

I asked a simple question, a few facts would be in order. I am not asking for the life history of the church. My god, the church will not even write their own complete history.

[Thats my opinion]

20. I will

[skepticscott]

21. Except that you have

regularly stated here that people should refrain from posting about the negative and nasty things that organized religion has done throughout its history (while at the same time acknowledging how numerous those examples are), because you say it serves no good purpose. And now you say that "To understand any history one must look at both sides." Apparently that blatant contradiction hasn't penetrated yet.

[trotsky]

22. Ouch.

Right to the heart.

[Thats my opinion]

25. good point

Yes, we have to look at both sides. It has been the perpetual highlighting of an ugly fringe of religious life with NO attempt at fairness that has been a concern. I have been reminded of the way Sean Hannity treats Democrats. I think we need to look at the criticisms of political liberalism, but Hannity defines unfairness.

[skepticscott]

30. There are plenty of apologists

both here and elsewhere, who enthusiastically promote the good they perceive as having been done by religion, so to claim that things are unbalanced is entirely disingenuous. It's the voices that speak of the concealed unpleasantness of religion that are, and always have been, in a tiny minority. And your analogy to Hannity is rather silly, since it's not his tone or the way he treats people that matter...it's the fact that he's wrong and he lies all the time. On the other hand, you yourself have acknowledged that the 'horror stories' about religion are largely true.

And the fact remains that you've posted on more than one occasion that bringing up the bad side of religion serves no good purpose.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. American Atheists are mobilising against his school voucher program

here

Is that what you're looking for? Or more Catholics speaking out against him (after all, he is a Catholic, so the argument of that letter was "you're not following Catholic teaching about the poor") ?

[Thats my opinion]

26. I'm ready to join

anyone fighting a school voucher program. This is a fight many of from a variety of viewpoints need to engage.

[edhopper]

24. "Anybody else managed to speak up?"

The Council for Secular Humanism, for one.

What was the tag suppose to mean. I took it as a challenge to the non religious.

[Thats my opinion]

27. You took it wrong

Don't read a put-down or a challenge in everything. There are some things we need to work together on without being defensive. That includes me.

[edhopper]

28. Fair enough

I agree and outside of this forum I work with fellow progressives to fight for what is right. Their religious beliefs and affiliations are not important when the subject is our democratic agenda.
But here, in this forum I am free to question the nature of God and beliefs. I can have discussions and bring arguments to the table that I don't have the opportunity in my daily life.
Don't think that the atheist here are obsessed with religion to the exclusion of all else. But we get a chance on this forum to confront the absurdities we see in the religious world and we don't have to be silent for the sake of proper public behavior.
You can go to many forums if you want to talk about the ideals we share. But here we talk about religion and we don't stop asking the hard questions and we don't back down.

[Thats my opinion]

29. Fair enough

Sometime off the record if you are interested in REALLY nasty religious horror stories, I have a barrel full. And of course you are free to do what you do here. It does strike me, however, that what is going on in our nation and world is too important to forget that our main task is to work together on really serious issues: GLBT, poverty, excesses of capitalism, the damn wars, economic disparity, health care, elections. the environment,and much more. These are the things I write about every week in the column which I file here (editorials) and is far reaching across the nation in a number of news outlets. My commitment to these issues is rooted in my religious perspective. Your is not, but if we can agree not to let that get in the way, we have a win win partnership. I write this here instead of as a private letter because I want to make my perspective clear both to you and to the dozen others who have believed that in defending religious faith I was condemning other perspectives. That's why I suggested we change the subject. If I have exacerbated the conflict I, apologize .

[LAGC]

31. Why would you think that lack of religious beliefs would "get in the way" of anything?

I know you're trying hard not to be condescending, but you are only having limited success.

[edhopper]

32. Yes

probably outside of religion we agree on most things. And as with most members of DU we are fighting for a progressive ideal that is under attack in this Country.
And GD and other Forums are great places to discuss that.
But for me R/T is not about the Democratic agenda. It's a place to have a full on, no holds bared debate about religion, faith and God.
In most of my life I simple let statements about God and religion go without challenge. It can cause a great deal of strife and usually isn't important to the overall conversation or situation. But I enjoy it that here is a place I don't have to let it slide. I can keep questioning and challenging these ideas I find absurd.
I think you are trying too hard in your threads to get the non believers here to allow you your faith. That's not what we do here.
I think the question you are trying to ask is. "Outside of our different view of God and religion, don't we come together on most social and political issues?"
The answer is most likely yes.