For atheists, agnostics, and others, at what age did you lose faith?

[fujiyama]

I just like to get an idea at what age people gave up on religion, and God in general?

My own experience was when I was 8, when a grandparent died. I had to wonder why God would let people die. Soon after I started looking at God like Santa Claus-something very illogical and seemingly rooted in mythology.

Well, as I learned more about history and science, the belief in religion and even God faded.

I am now, what I consider agnostic. The only reason, I would not say I'm an atheist, is because the presence of God can neither be proved or disproved, and I think atheism makes a point that God does not exist. But the label itself doesn't even matter, because religion is not relevant in my life.

[NVMojo]

1. around 30 after my fundie spouse left me for an affair ...

...after I divorced him, the church we went to treated me like I was untouchable and the rest just went downhill from there ...

[Imagine My Surprise]

54. Gradual Awakening...

I was once a 14 year old radio preacher. Pentecostal, at that. But realizing I was gay at 22 put a bit of a crimp in things.

I left anthropomorphic religion around that time, and have since found solace in various schools of thought including but not limited to: Science of Mind (not Scientology!!!), Unity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Self Realization Fellowship and Vedanta. As well as pagan and wican.

I find Christianity (other than Unitarians who aren't technically Christians) to be a sick concept. The idea of being born into a depraved state and Christ having conveniently to have died for that depraved state sucks. It's all about control.

[Maat]

147. Hey, I'm a Religious Scientist (Science of Mind);

I get so tired of having to explain that I'm not a Scientologist, and I'm not a Christian Scientist.

www.rsintl.org .

We are a New Thought church that is welcoming and affirming.

This is, of course, totally irrevelant to the point of this thread (sorry).

[KG]

2. i don't think i ever really believed.

in spite of being dropped of at church every sunday as a child. i just never 'got it'.

[China_cat]

22. Did you have the feeling that if there weren't all these

other people around to see what was going on, it wouldn't be? That's how I felt about it. Faintly ridiculous and silly.

Probably why I got kicked out of Sunday school.

[zanne]

25. Know what you mean. Question should be different...

Alot of people, especially religious people, assume that I somehow "lost" my faith. That's not the case. When I was a child, I was taught Catholic Church beliefs, but that doesn't mean I accepted them as truth. Kids really aren't stupid; they know that there are some things adults don't want questioned. Eventually, people CHOOSE whether or not they believe something; it's not something that's "lost".

[radwriter0555]

32. By age 6 I had been kicked out of 3 sunday schools in my small town for

apparently asking the wrong questions.

Independent thought isn't well fueled by religious dogma apparently.

[0007]

36. Dogmas and doctrines are for those that lack thinking abilities.

They both go hand in hand with superstitions and without an understanding of the message in fairy tales.

[Marr]

96. I don't think that's necessarily true.

Sometimes rituals and doctrines- in any religion- can be used as a path to spirituality. Like people speaking in tongues, or Buddhists chanting, or any of a thousand other little displays we've all seen. I'm not saying they've got a direct line to god or anything, but if someone finds a specific code, or set of rules, or silly hat helps them feel out their place in the world, I say go for it.

Christ, I sound like one of those flaky ass people at the pier selling crystals. I'm not- seriously.

[0007]

130. You've convinced me by your sense of reasoning that you

hang loose at the pier.

[catbert836]

129. My dad was kinda like that

He tells me he used to go up for communion, then would cause quite a commotion by shouting "Sieg Heil!" and giving the Hitler salute to the Vatican's flag.
Sadly, he now believes everything the church tells him to.

[unblock]

3. never had it in the first place

my father had a subscription to "the skeptical inquirer".

grow up learning to doubt any unsupported claim and you don't grow up believing in god....

[izzie]

4. I grew up in a home that reason was always more important

I think it was the religion of my father.

[vi5]

5. I can't say I ever had any...

I went to church growing up because my parents were and are religious (Catholic). But as young as I can remember something always seemed fishy about it to me. I couldn't figure out why we had to thank god for the good things that happened but couldn't blame him when the bad things happened. THe whole free will argument propped up only when it was convenient struck me as hollow. I would definitely say that at least as soon as I figured out things like Santa Claus weren't real, I honestly expected my parents to tell me that the whole god thing wasn't real either.

Then top on to it the very large number of horrible things done by large swaths of believers and religious people and I pretty much had no use for it at any point in my life.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

37. EXACTLY nt

[DanCa]

6. I was excummunicated in 2000 but i never lost faith.

I have a growing disdain distrust and paranioa over organized religion but i still believe in god. What does that make a spiritualist? Personally as a person who needs stem cell research as a viable cure for parkinson's organized religion is my biggest obstacle and my biggest cure and am sick of the msm focusing on bushs narrow interpetation of the bible.

[watrwefitinfor]

7. 22

It was an epiphany that had been a long time coming. Mine also hinged on a death.

Driving hundreds of miles through the night to go to my parents because my brother had just died in an auto accident. Trying to console the inconsolable self with visions of his soul flying off to heaven, when a mental picture of a little boy with little white wings, flapping off into the sky hit me. Suddenly realizing how absurd it was. Nothing but a myth. Hit me like a brick. Oddly, the truth was much more consoling than all the lies.

Never looked back. All these years later I can see that the truth (any truth, wherever you can find it) has kept me sane in an insane world.

Wat

[raccoon]

161. Great post, especially this,

"Oddly, the truth was much more consoling than all the lies."

[klyon]

8. Sunday school around 5th grade

How old is that? The stories were unbelievable. I also learned around that time that adults made stuff up and told it to their kids. Until then I believed everything and did what I was told. Now I question everything. The question of god is irrelevant unless it shows up.

KL

[zalinda]

9. It was sometime in elementary school

My brother died and it hit me hard. But I didn't question a god until I was in religion classes. They couldn't explain who or what God is, all they could do was quote pat phrases. That didn't satisfy.

I'm agnostic. I figure if I'm wrong, big deal. I wouldn't change who or what I am if there is or isn't a God.

zalinda

[China_cat]

24. I figure that if I'm wrong

whatever god created me, it made me incapable of belief so it must want me that way.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. About age 14

Largely through meeting too many other Christians, and deciding they just weren't thinking. So I examined my own attitudes, and gave up religion as a result or more thinking.

And by the way, it's 'atheism' and 'atheist'. It's another '-ism' word. I know it's petty to pull people up on spelling, but it's just painful to see it time and time again. :-)

[fujiyama]

12. No problem

I just went ahead and changed it.

And I also changed "proven" to "proved", because I don't think "proven" is even a word.

:silly:

[never_get_over_it]

16. Proven is a word - eom

[grilled onions]

11. Eight or So

I couldn't figure out if there was a God why he/she would allow the bullies of the world to take over;where kids could have parents that did not want them;where animals died under cruel conditions;why some people had all the money in the world while so many had so little and yet those where the ones who had all the tragedy in life. In my young mind I felt I would have distributed the misery around more fairly!

[awoke_in_2003]

13. i would have to say

once I started college. Forces you to think critically.

[charlie]

14. Never had faith

though I did try in my late teens through early adulthood. I figured I'd never really know unless I gave it an honest go. Didn't take. At all. However, I would say I think Zen Buddhists are on to something.

[Birthmark]

15. Age 16

Reading the Bible will do that to a person. :)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

38. ROFL nt

[Qibing Zero]

47. So, so true. nt

[Massacure]

17. After I got kicked out of Sunday School.

I told a nun that her story was boring or something to that effect, not realizing the full effect of what the church realized as "god", and when she tried to paddle me with a yard stick, I grabbed it and paddled her.

Is there a god? I don't know. I'm 17, I hope I have a while before I end up finding out!

[Big Kahuna]

20. You "paddled" a nun!?!?

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

34. kinky.

I merely argued with them - sometimes loudly.

[Why Syzygy]

18. 1995 - I was 40

When my ex and I split up. I had been the good little christian and "led him to the lord". We both cried and he said he didn't know if he "believed" any more. I said, I don't either.

It took five more years for me to totally break free of religious indoctrination. Feels wonderful.

[Big Kahuna]

19. I walked away from the Catholic Church at age 16

I don't have any kind of horror story, it just came time for confirmation, and I could not in good conscience accept all of the doctrine and dogma of the church. I feel that I have learned a lot of truths that are universal to all religions, even if the rigid hierarchy in the church can't see it.

To be fair.. I am a practicing Pagan, and have found that some Pagans, Wiccans, etc, can be just as dogmatic and pig-headed as any fundamentalist Christian church.

Unfortunately I think religion in general attracts people who need structure imposed on them. They need things spelled out clearly, the whole universe in a neat little box that they can wrap their minds around.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

41. Yes, that's it

exactly. Well, the universe isn't a neat little box. Get used to it.

[Missy M]

21. Grammar school age when I was going to religious instruction and..

at the time the Catholic Church taught us the Catholic religion was the ONLY true religion. The nuns also taught alot of fire and brimstone, how we would burn in hell for being sinners. I interpreted all of that to mean my Protestant, Jewish or whatever other religion friends were all going to burn in hell for eternity and I couldn't figure out why they didn't become Catholic. That started my thinking and I started to lose faith and as I grew my total disbelief in God and religion.

[NashVegas]

23. 12-ish

In addition to Catholic School Refugeedom, at that age a friend convinced me to get "saved" in exchange for a McDonald's cheeseburger.

One little incident but it had an amazing impact. I went for purely selfish motives, and they knew they were dangling bait to appeal to that selfish motive, but nonetheless, they deemed me "Saved."

[teknomanzer]

71. You sold your soul for a cheeseburger?!

What are you Homer Simpson? Mmmmm... cheeseburger... aarrrgghhhh...

[Marr]

99. Personally, I think his friend was robbed.

Hey- tell him I'd be willing to trade him 5 of my imaginary friends for a hot meal.

[afdip]

117. what is the going rate for souls these days?????

[afdip]

118. 13 and this decision was reinforced

a few years later when i spent a year and a half in vietnam as a hospital corpsman with the marines.

[jmm]

132. These days it's just donuts and kool-aid

A couple of Thanksgivings ago I went with my brother to visit his then girlfriend and her family. Her nine year old niece starts talking to me about how she's gonna be in the Christmas play goes on and on about how she loves church and can't wait to go again on Sunday.

At first this seemed strange to me because I've always been agnostic. Even when I was in Catholic school I would get A's in religion but F's for effort because I would do things like talk most of my class into believing in reincarnation and when asked to write a paper on my favorite book of the Bible pick Leviticus and go on about the horrors of mixing fabrics.

Then she asked if I'd like to know why she loves her church. I said sure and she replied that at Sunday school they always gave them donuts and juice. At least when I was young and the neighborhood fundy bribed us into Bible weekly Bible study we got rice crispie treats, pie, cakes, soda, etc.

[NashVegas]

134. Funny How That Works

Looking back, maybe it wasn't such a bad lesson.

[NashVegas]

133. Are You Sure You Aren't Thinking of 'Wimpy?'

I think I just dated myself.

[never_get_over_it]

26. I'm not even sure what I believe

but I know I DO NOT BELIEVE in any organized religion - started while growing up right next to a Catholic rectory. I could go on for hours with stories about that but here are a few of the high lights or low lights

1. Went to Catholic school and when we were in first grade the founding priest of that church died and they paraded us all past his dead body lying in the rectory - probably less than 30 feet from my house - freaked us all out

2. When I was in second grade the replacement for the priest who died marched into my class room and kicked me out of Catholic School. Why because my mother took my older sister out of the school because my parents were divorced and EVERY day my sister came home crying because the kids teased her about our parents. The priest in order to keep my sister and me in the school threatened my mother that if she took my sister out - he would remove me and so he did

3. When I was about 18 I was asked to be my nephews god mother and since the god father wasn't Catholic there had to be at least one Catholic in good standing - probably less than two hours before the "ceremony" and after it was already approved for the two of us to be god parents - a different priest marched over to our back door and claimed I was not a Catholic in good standing and could not be god mother. Seems my church attendance was lacking. Well you don't mess with my mother - so she told him in no uncertain terms that the head priest had already approved it (he was out of town) and my sister had about 50 people headed to her house for a baptism party and he backed down. During the ceremony my nephew started crying and I was rocking him trying to get him to stop and the priest said don't worry that is the devil coming out of him - that was probably the beginning of the end - how this precious baby had the devil in him was beyond me. Later we found out this priest was having an affair - hmmm wonder if that made him a Catholic in good standing?

Then week after week I'd see these people march off to Saturday evening mass and many of them left there to go out and party and get drunk. Catholics are some of the worse freaking hypocrits in the universe

The icing on the cake for me is the fundies who want to impose their freaking religion into government - they have succeeded with me - the exact opposite of what they hoped to accomplish - my complete hatred for organized religion.

[no_hypocrisy]

27. 1982 in the middle of Yom Kippur services.

I started having serious doubts and acted on them:

1. I didn't sin. I made mistakes.
2. I wasn't sorry or guilty as I already apologized and made restitution where appropriate.
3. To whom was I apologizing and atoning? Nobody was listening.
4. I was (and am) on my own to improve or mess up my life. And religion wasn't helping.

I never looked back. I then met some humanists and became humanist. I then met freethinkers, atheists, and ethical culturalists. I incorporated their philosophy. I am not at war with religion per se, but I don't endorse it either. The closest religions that don't bug me are Unitarian-Universalist and Quaker.

[bee]

28. birth.

truthfully, Ive been repelled by religion for as long as I can remember.

[connecticut yankee]

29. I rejected Judaism at 14

After I finished Sunday School I started to think for myself and realized I just couldn't believe in or practice all the things that were crammed down my throat. Stuff like "we are the Chosen People;" praying in a foreign language; rituals written by someone else; superstitions that are taken as law; customs that have no relevence for me.

I majored in Philosphy in college and took many courses in religion, trying to find a faith I could believe in and follow. I finally realized that all religions are as valid as the others, and none of them were right for me.

Then I learned about Unitarianism, and felt that that was my home. I've been a Unitarian since I was 19.

I'm an agnostic because I can't be absolutely sure that there is no God. However, I'm very doubtful -- I can't understand why a "loving God" would allow atrocities on innocent people to take place. Why there is so much unfairness in the world. And why so many people live in pain.

[abluelady]

30. I don't Remember ever believing in a god

As I got older and saw more and more and experienced more and more I found it impossible to believe. I question too much. And I do think the presence of god can be disproved. What's she done for me lately????

[Cats Against Frist]

31. Twelve. Basically, the age I formed rational thought.

I said to my mom, "Do you think all that stuff in the Bible really happened?" And she said, "you don't believe it?" And I said, "No." She said, "yeah, maybe you're right, but I believe it."

My parents never took me to church, never prayed -- I mean we had Christimas, but the Rudolph and Santa type -- thank GOD as my mom is getting older she hasn't gone all fundie -- she doesn't even have one thing in the house that references God/Jesus, etc. -- no cutesy statues or plaques. I am fucking lucky.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. I was sent to a religious skule for the 1st six years

and was constantly in trouble because their ideas of faith made no sense. I debated the lessons and pointed out contradictions.

When everyone had to bow their head in church as JC or his mommy were heading up to heaven, I would look up in disbelief. When I asked how could others be saved when they would never hear this particular version of their truth, I had to kneel and repent. And when I pointed out that many of their arguments made no sense given scientific facts, the kneeling sessions became longer.

I suppose, I have never been able to accept things on blind faith, put my trust in some other person's idea of what religion must be followed or accept one interesting collection of stories, badly translated and interpreted, as gospel.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

35. Well, I'm a teen now, and I've

pretty much given up organized religion. I always WAS a skeptic, and then I opened my eyes and saw how cult-ish Catholicism, Fundamentalism, etc. all are.

What do I need a church for? Nature---the TRUE power to be honored-- is all around me. What do I need a preacher for? The word of Nature shows itself to me everyday, when I write, when I play piano, when I listen to music...

Writing IS my religion.

Edited to Correct Typo

[mcscajun]

39. About age 14...when I discovered reason and the panicky reaction

of nuns and priests when you use it on religion.

Before I was 14, the first jolt was when I was spending the weekend with my newly-married sister and her husband, who were taking me and my younger sister to the beach...very early on Sunday morning. That was the first time I saw that people didn't necessarily All go to church on Sunday morning, and nobody got struck dead for it. I only felt mildly guilty about missing Mass.

When I started high school was when the trouble started. I can't recall what precipitated this, but I wound up in a class espousing a three-point logical proof of the non-existence of Hell. No way could I rationalize a just and loving God with the same God who would condemn people to a place such as the Hell I'd grown up to believe.

Well, you can imagine the blood pressure reading of the nun at that point. It wasn't too long before I was sitting in the office of the priest who was assigned to our High School so I could get a good 'talking to'. He didn't change my mind, and I learned to keep my mouth shut about what I believed and didn't believe.

By the end of that school year, my mother died of cancer. She'd suffered horribly for a couple years beforehand. After her funeral mass, I simply stopped going to church voluntarily. I still had to attend the occasional mandatory mass at the High School, but that was all pro forma for me. I did go my father's funeral mass almost twenty years later, but as an observer rather than participant. I only enter churches these days very unwillingly, and for weddings/funerals of family members or very, very dear friends only.

I've been through all the predictable phases in a very non-linear fashion. You'll sometimes see my "disclaimer" in posts that address matters of faith or religion: I'm a collapsed Catholic (who spent a fair amount of free time as a child actually reading the Bible out of sheer curiosity), one time atheist, generally agnostic, part-time pagan, ask-me-next-week-what-I-believe-in-IST.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

52. hate to say it, (it reads poorly)

but priests and nuns irrationally hate reason. They recognize it for what it is - a danger to their way of life.

[SlackJawedYokel]

40. Went to Catholic elementary school.

So it took me all the way until the age of 7, second grade, to realize my teachers, nuns and monks, were full of it and couldn't even defend their teachings to a skeptical, curious kid.
After a while I learned to not ask questions since "because its in the bible" and spankings were the only answer they seemed capable of giving.

My own experience was when I was 8, when a grandparent died. I had to wonder why God would let people die.
For me it was the illogic of a "kind and loving god" contrasted with the asshole god of the OT who killed everyone with the flood, destroyed whole cities and killed children.

I was really empathetic.

Cletus

[livvy]

42. When I was old enough to start comprehending all the ...

horrible injustices in the world, it got me thinking. I guess I was in high school. My family wasn't super religious to begin with, although my mom was a bigger believer than my dad is. I guess I started questioning how so many bad things could happen to so many good people, and so many rotten people seemed to skate through life unscathed. It was about that time that I decided if there was a God, he had a mean sense of humor, and was not someone I would want to believe in or follow.
I guess I'm an agnostic for the same reasons you stated. Religion just makes no difference to me, except I feel it causes more problems than it is worth. It's a cop-out for some...God's will, etc. In each of us there is a "god" and a "devil". We choose which path we will take.

[ebdarcy]

43. I never really had faith.

My family never went to church, but everyone believed in God. It was just accepted that God was real. I did go to two years of bible school and to a Methodist preschool. And while I had no problems there, none of the God stuff really registered with me.

When I was in fourth/fifth grade, my family got a set of world book encyclopedias. Soon after that, I asked my mother if Jesus Christ were real, and she told me to look him up in the encyclopedia, knowing that I would believe what was in the book. I don't remember exactly what it said, but what i took from it was that, yeah, he was probably real, but it can't be proven that he rose from the dead or that he is the messiah.

Growing up, I also read a lot of mythology. And I could never shake the feeling that Christianity was just another myth. It had more staying power, but it was still just a myth. Also, with so many religions, how could anyone know which one was "true". And, of course, there was the question of why God allows suffering. I came to the conclusion pretty young that if there was a God, he must be pretty horrible.

I tried to get faith. I used to feel that there was something wrong with me because I couldn't believe. I gave up completely at sixteen, when my grandmother died. The preacher was saying that she was in heaven and happy to be with God. And i kept thinking "bullshit". It was a beautiful day, and I knew my grandmother would rather be fishing. It was an irrational thought, but there it was.

So, officially, I've been atheist/agnostic for ten years now, but i never really was a believer.

[MadisonProgressive]

44. I was always a very questioning child

I didn't decide one way or another before I had all the facts - I think that's being an agnostic, which I still am today.

[Atlas Mugged]

45. Never really had it

I was suspicious from the very beginning. However, my experiences in catechism really destroyed any chance of me taking any of that seriously. Since I was reading before I was in grade school (a good deal of home schooling before entering the public school system) by the time I was going to catechism I was already researching things on my own. In particular, the whole concept of "virginity". It struck me as odd that the word "virgin" was so special and hallowed, but no one wanted to explain what it meant! That, alone, lead me on the path of a completely self learned sex education at a very early age, courtesy of the local library. For advanced visuals, all I had to do was walk home under the highway overpass, where the local delinquents had left, in graffiti, all the extra curricular study aids I needed.

In summary, full tilt atheist by the time I was 10. Jesus, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy were all part of the same shit load of lies to me. As an aside, I still remember my Aunt, looking at me one day and saying to my Dad, "He's such a quiet child, but he looks like he knows too much". I was terrified that I'd been busted and would soon be sent off to have my brain washed, which I took quite literally.

Also, I knew from a very early age that nuns, or at least the ones I was exposed to, were instruments of evil. Complete contradictions of everything they taught about god and Jesus. For example, if someone misbehaved in class (serious offences included dropping pencils or chewing gum) the nuns would not only punish the offender, but every other child in the class. So, not only did you get whacked with a ruler, every kid in class hated your fucking guts. Pure genius...and pure evil. These people are sick.

[Qibing Zero]

46. Somewhere around 10-12 I began to reject it,

and my parents will tell you I was always extremely skeptical and never completely accepted it in the first place...

But it took until 19-20 to get the barriers completely out of my mind, as the brainwashing was stronger than I ever realized. It took some good friends to help me through it, and I assure you it was not painless for either side.

The more you learn about history, and the more you thirst for knowledge, the more you start to realize the possibility of some sort of god(s) existing is extremely low, and the possibility of involvement in human affairs even lower. If religion wasn't so mainstream, you probably would have never even needed to have a serious thought about it.

[Kailassa]

48. caring for each other is the only religion that matters

When I was five I stood in the line with the adults leaving church, and explained to the minister that he was wrong, that people coud talk to god without going to church, because I did it all the time. He leaned down over me shouting that if I thought it was god talking to me I had better cover my ears and run very fast, because it was not god, it was the devil, and I'd better take care or he'd catch me. I was sad for him, seeing his life was about teaching religion, and he knew nothing about god.

I still talk to god, but my friends are mostly atheists. I prefer their rational approach to the muddleheadedness of most religious people. I once had a near death experience, and there were no gates up there or dogma to agree to, just a feeling of coming back home.

In this world it's love and courage that are important, some people's beliefs might help them to stay loving and brave, but if beliefs don't, they are better left behind. Being an atheist means having the courage to stand naked in a world of competing beliefs. We should all, at some stage, put beliefs and preconceptions behind us, and work out right and wrong for ourselves. No person or religion has the right to tell us what our individual priorities should be, or what our own consciences should say.

[alfredo]

49. I was unable to believe. I tried, but the parallels between God, Santa,

the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy, and Paul Bunyon dogged me from my earliest years. I was the one that told my older sister (five years older than me) that there was no Santa.

Now I guess I am an Atheist, but I don't push the opinion there is no God. I just don't care. Religion doesn't figure into my life, unless they get in my face.

[Taxloss]

50. 21-22, something like that.

But I plead special case - I converted to Christianity aged 15.

[chaumont58]

51. 15

I never had any religious training, and when I was in a World History class as a high school sophomore, I was confronted to all the world religions, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, even more populous than Christianity. I wouldn't have called myself Christian, but it was the end of any idea of the divinity of Christianity. That was the last I thought of it for another seven years. At 22, I heard an Einstein physics theory that eliminated the need for a creator of the universe. That took me to the mental state I am at now, and I find it nonnegotiable. When I ponder the size of our galaxy and the number of galaxies, I find it mind boggling that the idea of a personal supreme being is so widespread.

[riderinthestorm]

53. Sometime during college

Can't say exactly when.

I was a serious searcher before I had my own epiphany: I have looked at, examined, and toyed with a lot of different religions. I grew up surrounded by fundies and immersed in that culture. By 17 I had read the bible 3 times straight through, read the Religions of Man twice, attended a variety of different religious houses from mosques to temple, and taken more than a few classes at the Theosophical Society. I was already skeptical of all of their dogma and the hypocrisy by the time I reached college.

Several art history classes where you actually see the progression of religious iconography from caveman to present day coupled with the history of violent destruction instigated by religious organizations was enough to squash any lingering desire to link up with a "faith", any "faith".

I now perceive most people allied with a religion as brainwashed to one degree or another. I think "faith" is a culturally ingrained characteristic that many people take into themselves by virtue of constant repetition within their communities.

I am an atheist and can say without a doubt that the most honest, "holy", upright and caring human beings on this planet are other atheists and agnostics. We do right because it is the best way to live a "human" life, not because of fear of retribution ("fires of hell") or a desire for "heavenly" rewards. It is a very mentally pure life if I do say so myself.

[bikebloke]

55. Around 4 or 5

I asked that if "god" was good, why did he make bad people. I don't remember what answer I was given, but it wasn't convincing.

[rman]

56. You assume people start out being religious?

I never had any religious faith.

[NoodleyAppendage]

82. GREAT POINT! However "magical thinking" is hardwired developmental trait

Children engage in "magical thinking" as a normal course of development in an effort to make sense of the world, so maybe religion is just an extension of this normal developmental process?

B

[Tinksrival]

57. It was a process

My fathers family were baptist extremes. My parents met at church. My mother was quite a naive girl in Chicago with five other siblings and her father had died from asbestos cancer. Well my mother became pregnant at fifteen and the church married them in the basement and then banned them for a year. It was my mothers mother, the widow with six children that helped them and took them in. After the year was over they went back to church but were still shunned. My mother kept going trying to prove she could be a good wife a good mother. My father couldn't take the shame. He quit going and the guilt drove him to drink. This went on for years.
My father did become a respected pipe fitter foreman and was successful in providing for his family but I watched him loose it all. As the anger and shame bubbled up when he was drunk the person at the receiving end was my mother. She was good at pretending nothing was wrong. She really wanted to prove to them all that she was worthy of the church and all the people that whispered about her. But the beatings she endured at the hand of my father were increasing and he was becoming more and more violent. My sister and I would stand at the top of the stairs silent in terror as we watched Mommy get her "spanking" . Silent because we knew what it was like and we feared him like a tiger stalking its prey.
My mother finally swallowed her pride and seeked help from his parents. She had evidence of the drinking, drugs, and other women. I'll never forget the sight of my mother showing them the black and blue marks in the shape of his hand print all up and down her backside. I sat in the parlor with the symbols of religion surrounding me everywhere and I could hear them reconcile everything he did with the bible. They knew it back wards and for wards and knew how to use it to justify their every thought. But the bruises I thought, how can the bible let that happen. I remember peeking and I saw my mother show them. She pulled up her shirt and pulled down her pants and showed them. It was then I learned that it's ok for a man to hit his wife with an open palm. It didn't matter how big he was or how deep the bruises became or how many or how often. It didn't matter. They sent my mother back home the failure of a wife that could not pull off the good christian home. Just like they knew she would when she tempted their son and became pregnant in the first place.
She found the strength to leave him when the abuse to my sister and I increased. My father shamed and horrified that he could loose his family went back to his parents and back to God. He was crazy. No, I mean it, he literally went crazy. All that shame and guilt snapped him to a place so frightening to me. He quit his job. He quit shaving. He walked around with the bible reading scripture to the lost souls like him. Every Sunday he had a four hour visitation with us that was torcher. I remember thinking with horror that I liked him better before he found God again.
A year later when I was thirteen my mother started dating a man from the church who was very persistent. He was part of the church staff and had been close to my father and his family. When my father found out I never saw him again and he refused to pay child support. My mothers situation became desperate. Our new "friend of the family" insisted he would take care of us. He convinced her to marry him. She signed everything over to him. The title to everything was now in his name and he made her quit her job. By the end of the first year of this marriage I was almost fifteen and he was starting to come into my room at night. This is when my mothers long road down alcoholism began. We ended up loosing the house but we were able to get away from him.
I saw my father only once more. It was ten years later at a tollway oasis. He had a beard down his chest and I could see the gaps from missing teeth when he spoke to no one reading from his bible. I turned and ran as if I had just seen the devil. A couple years later my mother got word he died of an heart attack at age 54. Ironically she sent a flower arrangement to the service from my sister and I because she was worried what his family and the church would think of her if she did nothing.
What does any of this have to do with God? Well as I reached my mid twenties after my fathers death I started to really think about religion, it's people, and the book they revel in.
It was about fear and power. I then came to the conclusion that it's a crock of shit.
I had a discussion with my sister, who won't go anywhere near a church, why she still believed in God and the bible and she replied, "Because I'm afraid not to."

[Qibing Zero]

76. Just when you think you've felt pain...

Ouch. I feel for you. :(

It's amazing that you can tell that story - I think it would be just too unbearable for me. Thanks for sharing.

[Marr]

94. Wow.

Interesting story. On the "because I'm afraid not to"... is she afraid of punishment in Hell, or is she afraid of just "ending" when she dies? Both are pretty terrifying concepts, if you ask me. :P

[Tinksrival]

107. Probably both. Afraid to go against the majority and the unknown.

She refuses to have any further discussion on the subject. But she also now has a drinking problem which she also won't discuss. :-(

[raccoon]

162. I'm sorry that happened to you. nt

[Tinksrival]

58. dupe

It posted twice

[toddaa]

59. No one really converts to unbelief

I grew up in a fundamentalist environment and at one time was pretty fervent in my belief. But I didn't wake up and one day declare myself to be an atheist. My appetite for knowledge was far greater than my fear of taboos. It took about 15 years before I completely disowned any and all religious beliefs.

After that point, my curiousity lead me to study other religious systems of thought, until I found Daoism. It suits me as a very nice metaphor, so I now call myself a Secular Daoist. I won't, however, disown the word atheist. I don't believe in God.

[Boo_Radley]

60. Gradually

When I was about 5 in Sunday School I questioned the circular logic of the Bible, but I got in BIG trouble for it.

Then around 14 I started learning about the history of the Christian religion, and thought it highly coincidental that the people promoting it happened to become extremely wealthy and powerful.

By about 15 I had concluded that God was probably make-believe.

At sixteen I first told a family member, my older brother, "There is no God."

The decisions wasn't surrounded by any big event, just by my own study. I concluded that the story didn't make any sense, and that it was obviously deployed strategically by people with a lust for power.

Later on, I explored other religions a bit, but found them all failing, as well. I do find a lot of good advice for life in a lot of religions, though, and I think a lot of what Jesus taught was pretty nice stuff.

[KnowerOfLogic]

61. 10-12, somewhere thereabouts; figured that any god who would let

continue the evils and suffering that exist in this world was not worth giving the time of day to. Later, as i learned more about the evidence aginst the veracity of the bible, in particular, and in favor of naturalistic explainations for the universe's origin, it just confirmed my belief that there is no god.

[Lochloosa]

62. This one is easy

16. Some friends took me to a revival. If you have never been to a revival in the south you should try it sometime. Anyhow, the preacher was trying to presuade everyone that Henry Kissinger was the beast. I almost lost it right there. I've never looked back.

[HeeBGBz]

63. I rejected religion at about age 35

At a graveside service for my grandmother, the preacher came up to me and started talking about something I did one time that had caused my grandmother a lot of stress. He used it to try to "guilt trip" me.

Then another churchmember told an employer of mine that I was a "bad person." Citing my wild ways in my early 20's.

It was then that I realized that God may forgive, but the church NEVER forgets.

Now I have a spiritual belief system, but it is based out of my heart and not some building and my own interpretation of spirit is as good as any asshole preacher.

This was just as the fundies started getting political. That's when I had to bail.

[Kazak]

64. I was raised UU...

and therefore taught from early on to look at our existence rationally, and to put my faith only into that which is evident. :shrug:

[newsguyatl]

65. eh, i don't think i ever really had it

i can remember at a very young age, listening to the baptist preacher in my church talk about heaven, hell, sins, etc.. and thinking how weird and (literally) unbelievable it all sounded...

that childhood skepticism soon turned into thoughts of silliness and eventual absurdity of religion overall.

[bread_and_roses]

66. Never had any. Moloch, Jesus, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Hollow Earth

...same dynamics at work among believers, as far as I can tell. I seem to have been born without the believer/spirituality gene.

I was entranced by the stories of the Greek Pantheon at an early age, and I could never see any difference between believing in them and believing in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god. Exepting, of course, that the Greek stories were MUCH more entertaining.

Like the OP, I generally call myself Agnostic, since I can't PROVE that the god(s) don't exist, any more than Believers can PROVE that their god(s) do exist, but for all practical purposes I am an Atheist.

I have no quarell with anyone's spirituality or choice of Religion, but I do not "respect" religious belief any more than I "respect" belief in the hollow earth theory. I do respect the right of others to believe and practice as they will, even though I consider organized religion as a threat to all life on earth, as long as THEY LEAVE ME ALONE and don't try to impose their fantastical constructs on the rest of us by law.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

67. I never had it...

...and I'll thank you not to imply that I ever did.

I acknowledge the possibility of some guiding supreme consciousness, but that's as far as it goes. I believe the fundamental nature of the universe is something we're simply not capable of learning or understanding, not in this world anyway. That's why I find religion in general to be incredibly presumptuous.

[leesa]

68. Pretty much ended for me in the sixth grade. I simply could not believe

that stuff in the Bible and I couldn't figure out why God would be so damned mean and self-centered if He were our Creator and supposedly the best Father ever. Sounded like an abuser to me.

Lot's of comparative religious studies, etc after that and I have finally come to the comfortable conclusion that I have no idea if there is a God or not. If there is, great. If there's not, so be it.
A belief I do have is that no creator would be as mean and hateful as the God portrayed in the religious texts seems to be.
I believe a creator God would love us no matter what and would not care if we worshiped Him. I think he would only want us to care for His other creations, all of them.

[cat_hair]

69. I never really believed

I wasn't really raised with religion, but I did go along with it when it was necessary. I just thought that was what you were supposed to do, but I didn't really buy it.

Now I just don't care, I don't believe in anything. I don't really think about it, I just live my life.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

70. I don't think I ever truly believed

in god. My folks were raised S. Baptist but were not big church goers. For my Dad, Sunday morning was for nursing a hangover and Mom went more to be seen doing what the thought she was supposed to do rather than any true interest in the bible or the sermon. I just didn't see the point of worshiping some Big Sky Deity. But until college I went through the motions and kept my true thoughts to myself out of paranoia over being seen as different or weird. I did, however, believe in "Jesus" as a historical figure. Just couldn't be convinced that he was some "son of god" or other such nonsense. Kind of felt sorry for him - he was probably a cool dude who had good things to say. Too bad he got exploited for others' power and wealth.

[rppper]

72. early teens.........

about the time all the jim baker/jimmy swaggart scandals were coming to light...people like jerry falwell and the old moral majority went against what i had been taught to believe. my mom and dad both believed in god and the teachings of christ, but organized religion was not a factor in my family's life after about age 8. the absolute turning point in my personal life was when my son was scalded in an accident and required nearly a month in a burn unit and a year of therapy afterwards....after seeing my son burned, as well as the other children in that burn ward who were worse off than my boy, i questioned what kind of god would allow a 1 year old infant to suffer such pain. the answers that preachers and pundits gave me...that my son suffered for myine and my familys sins...were not the answer i had in mind. i believe in a higher power, and i think christ's example is a good one to follow. but i see the bible for what it is, a historical manuscript interpretted by humans...a set of stories meant to act as sort of a moral compass. ultimatly i feel god gave us a brain and a set of choices which we are supposed to act upon. each choice you make directly affects the situations in your day to day life. i am a firm believer in karma. i live my life through that principle. whether i'm right or wrong, i'll know when i die i suppose.

[not systems]

73. Never had it to lose...

I didn't get indoctrinated by my parents and by the time
others tried I was beyond their reach.

I've done fine and never done wrong or harmed anyone all
with my secular values of fairness and the golden rule.

[DeepModem Mom]

74. Ah, great! Another thread for atheists/agnostics to congratulate...

themselves on their superior intellect and morality. I'm only an occasional churchgoer, and not a believer in much of Christian theology, but I get so tired of this.

Sorry to unload on your thread, fujiyama -- I'm not commenting so much on your post, which will result in discussion very interesting to many, as commenting on my firm belief that these kinds of discussions belong in DU's Religion and Theology forum, and not in GD.

[not systems]

75. yawn.

:nopity:

[DeepModem Mom]

77. LOL!

On edit -- I now have a much shorter response to these personal religion threads: "Yawn!" All the same, and they never appear during a hurricane, or indictment. When things get slow, here they come. And 100 responses, or near to that, virtually guaranteed!

[bee]

85. your edited-in comment indicates that your issue with this thread

goes much deeper than whether or not it belongs in GD.
Just saying.

[DeepModem Mom]

89. My issue is the thread in GD (and, I admit...

the superior attitude of some atheists/agnostics). A deeper issue? 100-response envy? With 13,000 posts, been there, done that.

[bee]

93. I understand...

But I think the superior attitude thing is equally as existent on both sides of the fence. That is to say, atheists are the immoral and unenlightened ones according to many believers. So believers get tired of atheists claiming intellectual superiority, and atheists get tired of being called heathens & told we're going to hell. I think its an exceptionally sensitive issue for most people, regardless of their beliefs (or lack thereof). And its very difficult (perhaps even impossible) to have a discussion on the subject (however benign) without offending someone.

Ive seen many OP's that address god & religion in GD.

[DeepModem Mom]

101. I agree with you completely, bee.

There are many of these discussions in GD (and I alert on them each time, even though I know they are allowed to stay, because I know there has been revisiting of the policy). It's the sensitivity of this issue, which you mention, that leads me to believe so strongly that these discussions should be in the forum created for them, Religion and Theology. I think personal religious discussions in GD, unrelated to political matters, or the destructive influence of the power of the "Religious Right," divide DUers, and offend. Those who wish to have these personal discussions could do so in R and T.

[bee]

115. fair enough.

Maybe some people dont realize how many areas of DU there really are. I know I didnt (until recently).

At any rate,
a toast to common ground :toast: In a perfect world there would be no judgmental-ism. :hug:

[DeepModem Mom]

121. Indeed!

:hug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

102. i disagree. People who use rational thought know better than

to feel superior.

It is the religious freaks who try to show their "superiority" and who demand that
a) they are always being abused for their beliefs
b) the only way to go to heaven is to follow their peculiar sect's rigid rules
c) any questioning of those man-made rules is a mortal sin
d) by the way, we are superior, we know best, and therefore your children must learn what we have to teach. Because our book tells us so.

Any claim that rational thinkers and agnostics share any of those attributes with fundie freaks is an insult. The issue is faith vs. logical thinking. Period. Those people who take solice in faith are welcome to it. Just keep it the hell away from me. I prefer to make mistakes, learn, research and learn some more. It is more human and humane to realize what a small, weak and powerless creature this species is, compared to the grand universe, than to claim that the 'real truth", based on some figment of someone's befuddled imagination, puts us at the center of the universe. Oh, and god put us here just to test us and later he sends down some big star agent to live among us for some 34 yrs. What does that make christians, if you really think about the biblical stories? Nothing better than lab rats.

We are not rats. We are human. our success/failure comes from our own insights, knowledge and growth - and willingness to admit mistakes and to correct them. Fundies are incapable of such rational decision-making. To their detriment.

[DeepModem Mom]

108. Not all religious people are "fundies," nor do all lack the capacity...

for rational thinking. Not to bore anyone with my own religious thoughts, but I have always found reading Elaine Pagels very satisfying. She rejects religious dogma, but retains a curiosity about religion, and is open to the possibility that there can be something positive in it. Neither she, nor I, would deny, or apologize for, the destructive effect of religion on individual humans, and societies, throughout history. Her histories of early Christianity, however, do point out some ideas, like social equality, for example, that were part and parcel of that religion before it was institutionalized.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

116. nor do I suggest that all are. I am merely pointing out one subset

of one religion.

Wahabis earn the identical scorn and disdain, as do budhists who kill Sihks based on religious differences.

[DeepModem Mom]

122. Thanks for the clarification, antifaschits --

:)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

123. please excuse me for being unclear earlier.

I do not imply that all believers are irrational, nor all beliefs bad. I hold plenty of beliefs.

I believe in having another beer, and I am proud to be a member of such an august group. I also believe in public school funding, heavy science research and development, freedom of and from religious ideas and in the basic insecurity of man.

especially when a cute woman walks by. :)

but as a fundemental idea, I also think that some extraordinary beliefs held by some religious extremists cause harm, not good.

[DeepModem Mom]

131. Couldn't agree more, antifaschits --

except in my case, not "cute woman" but "handsome man.":D

[bee]

111. hold on now....

I wont get into a conversation about how atheists "feel" because thats not what I was discussing. The superior attitude I spoke of was in reference to discussions between atheists and believers... And yes, the condescending "holier-tha-thou" attitude gets exhibited by people both sides. Its nice, if as it appears, you think that all atheists & agnostics are entirely above being condescending during discussions on religion... but in my experience (as an agnostic) thats not the case.

For example: "Any claim that rational thinkers and agnostics share any of those attributes with fundie freaks is an insult".

Does that not imply that you yourself feel superior?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

120. Imply? not at all. I thought long and hard about it.

The point I am trying to make is rational thinkers know we are human, and therefore we err, and therefore claiming superiority is itself erroneous. We are not superior compared to a religious cult; we try to avoid traps, sometimes of our own making.

It is not a feeling of superiority, but a recognition that once we make our bed, we have to sleep in it, good, bad and coyote ugly. That is neither a feeling, an emotional response, nor anything superior. It is recognition of fact.

When you compare that to some faith based initiative, such as those promoted by evangelical fundies - be they christian, muslim, or any other faith, the idea of superiority does not arise - except in the minds of those faith based groups and thier doctrines. Doctrines, which i remind you, they wish to brain wash you with.

by trying to compare the "feelings" of agnostics, atheists, or rationalists with those of fundies, you have already changed the groundrules in favor of an emotionally-charged group. I suspect that such a comparison itself cannot be valid.

[bee]

127. Im not sure where we are disagreeing though...

Nowhere did not attempt to compare "feelings" of agnostics with those of fundies. As I said, I was simply comparing the attitudes of each during discussions on the topic. One can, by their statements, give that impression of "feeling" superior by exhibiting a "superior attitude". But I never meant to say that the attitude is an absolute indication of the "feeling". All Im saying is that during conversation, people on both sides cop the attitude. I agree with you that the "feeling" of superiority is inherent in religious fundamentalism by its nature, in the same way that it is absent from atheism by ITS nature.

[Taxloss]

136. On the flipside, in times of natural disaster,

there tend to be many, many, "pray for X, Y and Z" threads. I think self-congratulation can be a reasonably common trait.

[DeepModem Mom]

141. You're right, but I think most of those threads -- and I could be wrong --

now ask for prayer to whoever or whatever, or good thoughts, or good vibes, or whatever the individual DUer is comfortable with. Many do respond, for example, I pray your son will return safely from Iraq. I think that's okay -- as are any other manner of expressions of concern and hope for those in trouble or harm's way. I remember one recent thread that got some flak, but I think it was during the worst horror of Katrina, and even most atheists/agnostics gave the poster a pass, realizing that at times like that, people are desperate for hope, and any way they think may stop the horror.

[Taxloss]

143. I think this is an entirely neutral and reasonable topic.

Yes, it may seem a bit self-congratulatory in tone in some replies, but to those of us who don't believe in God, sometimes the "send a prayer" threads seem the same - more an ego trip than a constructive exercise. I know you don't see it that way, and that's fair enough, but I thought it was worth pointing out the analogy.

And I should point out that I don't approve of atheist disruption of prayer threads.

[DeepModem Mom]

145. I understand what you're saying, Taxloss --

and you make a very valid point.

[Taxloss]

146. Thanks.

And believe me, I see your side of the equation as well.

And I completely see what you meant by the first post you made in this thread. However, I do not think that this thread is guilty of that. Certainly not in intent, I would say.

[NoodleyAppendage]

83. ah, great! Another believer trying to quell discussion...

If you don't like the thread topic, don't read it or post to it. Easy.

B

[DeepModem Mom]

86. I don't think I've posted to such a thread before. Coffee...

got me riled up, I guess.

[DeepModem Mom]

88. I'm not sure I AM a believer. Does that make me an agnostic?

In any case, I generally keep my personal religious thoughts personal.

(On edit: except to say, on occasion, I am a believer in Elaine Pagels.)

[Tinksrival]

91. I'm grateful for the thread.

I never before wrote or spoke of my experience with religion. It just poured out of me this morning when I saw this thread. I have kept myself isolated in these thoughts cause i felt alone and ashamed. It's nice to know I'm not alone. So I guess we disagree. I hadn't even realized there was a group on this forum so thanks for that info.

[DeepModem Mom]

103. Yours is a wonderful post, Tinksrival. I'm glad this discussion...

in GD helped, and I'll concede that maybe your finding it here could be an argument for keeping these threads in GD. I know you'll find some helpful discussions in Religion and Theology, away from the fast-moving pace of GD.

[Marr]

92. Well, if it's any consolation-

This atheist understands your frustration completely. I get it in reverse from some of my more self-righteous friends and family at times, and it's annoying as hell.

I wish people wouldn't be so quick to equate their own religion (or lack thereof) with intelligence, but... well... there you go. But to be fair, there are alot of posters *not* making that leap, and I find their stories very interesting.

[DeepModem Mom]

105. Thanks for your post, Marr. You make some very good points! nt

[mcscajun]

100. I no more want to enter the Religion and Theology forum

than I want to enter a church.

And not all of the posts here are self-congratulatory. We merely answered the OP's question.

[bee]

106. even if it contains an atheists / agnostics group?

Which, as Ive just discovered, it does! :)

DU Atheists and Agnostics Group

[mcscajun]

113. Now that's Truly Bizarre.

I'm glad there is one...but why it's under Religion, I dunno.

Ah, I see the old R&T forum's been renamed to "Ethnicity, Religion & Atheism" -- now, that's better. At least we're getting equal billing.

:)

[mcscajun]

142. The group isn't in the R&T forum. I was hornswoggled.

Groups aren't in Forums. They're different animals entirely. The R&T continues. I'm outta here.

[leftofthedial]

78. never had it, except for a brief adolescent bout of insanity

I went throught the church motions a bit as a kid, because that was the cultural milieu in which I grew up. But on the few occasions when I pondered religion more deeply, it just struck me as so unlikely as to be absurd.

When I was 16 I attended a religious music summer camp and in the company of a handful of nubile young hotties, I got "saved." Almost directly as a result, I got laid. Over the next 9 months or so, I pretended to stay "saved" and got laid several more times. By the time I turned 17, I realized I could get laid without being a hypocrite.

I don't know whether this is funnier now or just more embarassing. LOL

[mopinko]

79. when i took a comparative religion class in hs

and realized that every people ever saw god in their own image. god is a reflection of us.
i never did have a big faith. i saw pretty quickly that my mother's faith left her locked into 7 kids, an alcoholic husband, and poverty. she was a good catholic.

[NoodleyAppendage]

80. 12-13 yrs. old when I realized that fear was being used to control

I vividly remember being taken to a movie shown by a local Baptist church about the book of Revelations and the Rapture. The movie depicted scorpion-like humanoid demons preying upon the "left behind" sinners. It was soon thereafter that the Baptist preachers showing the movie asked people in the audience if they wanted to be saved...the implication being that "you better get saved or a demon will kill you." Even to an impressionable 12-13 yr. old, I realized that I was being manipulated and reasoned that the tactic used was sadistic. This event and the whole notion of "Hell" is what turned me off. I came to realize that fear was being used as a control mechanism. People were being taught not to do good deeds for the sake of doing something good for humanity, but in an effort to avoid punishment.

Also, at some point I also realized that the Xtian kids were kind of "pod people" like and reticient to engage in any form of critical thinking.

B

[donsu]

81. around 10 after mulling over the statements that a god knew your every

thought.

It didn't seem possible that a god could know every person on the planet's very thoughts.

I was walking to church one sunday and I thought ' no god would strike me dead if I didn't believe' so I stopped believing and did not get struck dead.

it's very freeing not to believe

[leanin_green]

84. After a personal revelation and subsequent observation.

I was an up and coming evangelist in my particular sectarian faith. I had been the only white member in an all black congregation while serving in the armed forces in North Carolina. I learned a fiery form of preaching and had discovered the rhythmic oratorical gift of my black brothers.

After being discharged from the Navy in '80, I relocated to my beloved California. There, I continued in my service, preaching in many congregations and eventually getting the attention of a local religious broadcaster that had expressed interest in having me on a local broadcast. All of this at the age of 22.

Then, during an evening sermon, I experienced what I like to call my "benevolent vision." During the high point of my sermon, lightening struck the building and all the power went out. This was during the winter of '81-82. Northern California was suffering through one of the most intense winters on record. Well, in the moment that it took for the back-up generator to kick in, I had a vision of what I was doing, where I was going and how I would end up. I quickly closed the sermon, stepped down and back into the pews and began to look at where I was anew. I stopped preaching(until my final parting sermon)and began to observe what was taking place around me.

The pulpit is nothing but a stage for egos to strut and talk down to its members. Religion is a social spectacle that serves its own purposes and where God seldom resides. And my last sermon was entitled, "Autopsy of a Dead Church." Enough said.

[Lorien]

87. Just recently

The tsunami, Katrina, BushCo... and the sudden loss of two of my foster kittens (one just yesterday) to a swift and horrible disease called panleukapenia. Odd thing is that yesterday's death of Ronin, a small, sweet, absolutely beautiful marbled bengal mix kitten (who many people had applied for) was sort of the nail in the coffin. After watching all the post Katrina suffering, this one last small loss made it crystal clear; there is no order, there is no benevolent omnipotent being, because such losses are completely senseless and cruel. Evil people remain firmly in power, and no scandal or misdeed in enough to shake them.Diseases remain that cause so much pain and suffering, some disabling people for their entire lifetimes. There isn't a "reason for everything"; it's random and chaotic-that much seems clear.

[PassingFair]

164. It blows their minds, Lorien!

Even people who do not consider themselves religious ladle that stuff out all the time.
"I believe everything happens for a purpose", they say, and they look at me for confirmation...

I don't believe that for a second! Too much crap happens to good people. Rotten peeps get away with murder! Chaos rules... We live with the consequences of our own choices...
They look at me like I just told them that there's a purple dragon on their shoulders.

[Marr]

90. It was a slow process, but I think I was about 24 or so before I could

come right out and say I was an atheist.

I still think the teachings of Jesus are profound and true: that we should help the weakest among us, the disposessed, etc. And I do consider myself a spiritual person, though I have no belief in the supernatural or personal deities of any sort. I just think real spirituality can sometimes be buried in ritual, and forgotten. At least, it was for me.

Anyway, I have nothing against religious people at all- I think there are alot of good Christians and alot of people who use those religious rituals as a path to spirituality, and that's fine. I just don't share the urge.

[ComerPerro]

95. When I was about 14 I really turned against it

Because I started learning history, and how religion was used to control people and destroy lives

[GliderGuider]

97. Atheist from birth, here

I was one of the very lucky ones - there was no religion in my family to give up. There was lots of science and skepticism of all sorts in our home. My maternal grandparents were atheists, so it's been passed down through four generations so far.

[PowerToThePeople]

98. Never. the yin and the yang

Right now is a definite negative period on this earth. But, eventually things will go the other way. It is natural. This most likely won't happen during our lifetimes, but maybe. For now, I'll wait 'till 06 to see if I need to put the .45 to my temple or not.

[Bigmack]

104. 8 yrs of Catholic school & 4 yrs of Jesuit High School...

... gradually eroded belief in any god.

It's all the Occult... god, angels, demons, Casper the friendly ghost.. whatever!

[LeftyMom]

109. I never really had any

I tried for a few years in a few different belief systems, but it's just not in my nature to believe in obvious hogwash. Even as a very small child I never believed in Santa or the tooth fairy or the reality of professional wrestling, but as a kid I enjoyed those things anyhow.

Religion is kinda like that for me, I don't buy into the larger meaning but I can appreciate the pageantry of a mass on other levels.

FWIW, my dad and sister are half-assed Catholics, my mother has a subscription to the religion of the month club.

[kineneb]

110. never did believe

I have been around churches most of my life. That is what happens when you are a classical musician and specialize in medieval/Renaissance music. I attended sunday school (mostly Methodist) and sang in the children's and then adult choirs. But mostly to be in the choir, not for the religion part. I still find the music more inspiring than the dogma, and I don't mind the ritual. I just cannot suspend logic to blindly believe in a myth, any myth.

Oh, and I never believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy (they all looked remarkably like my grandmother:) ).

I am rather fond of Zen Buddhism.

[RebelOne]

112. I was very religious as a child. My mother sent me to the local

Baptist church. I than switched to the Episcopalian church. When I was in my early 40s, I became an atheist. My father was an atheist, but he had no influence on my religious belief. My mother was a very religious person and would be horrified every time I said that in my opinion there was no such thing as god. And my daughter is an atheist, though she was not influenced by me. Her husband is a very devout Catholic, but she manages to deal with it.

[genieroze]

114. When I read Bushby's book about two months ago.

www.thebiblefraud.com/

[Rex]

119. Never had faith.

I stick with facts and observable phenomena.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

124. Between ages 14 & 16

I was raised & educated Catholic & served as an altar boy from my first holy communion until I finished secondary school. My first concerns crept in over the "Should we allow female priests?" debate in the Anglican church. I remember asking my priest about it and receiving a diatribe against women which really shocked me. For the next couple of years I started to worry about what I'd been brought up to believe, particularly around womans and gay rights (kinda odd for a straight male!). I then learnt from my RE teacher that Vatican II had abolished the concept of fire & brimstone hell (which I'd always believed & been terrified of, once having a priest whose sermons were akin to that in Joyce's "Portrait of an Artist").

Despite being in a Catholic school, I was the only altar boy & only one of about 3 people who went to church & I started to feel awkward about the whole thing. I was also by now on the wrong side of the church on most issues & decided I couldn't in good faith continue going.

Over the following few months I slipped into a more agnostic position -which I held for several years - that has now (through a lot of reading) hardened into staunch athiesm.

[longship]

125. An atheist who never lost faith.

Although my family went to church just about every week for the first 12 years of my life, I cannot remember any time that I believed on faith what I was being taught there.

When I was about 12 years old the family was driving home from church and my mother made an announcement. My father and mother were no longer going to attend church. If my sisters or I wanted to continue attending, my parents would drive us to and from church but would not themselves be participating. My sisters and I knew that my parents were both serious about them not attending and also serious about our options to continue attending. The decision was made in a matter of minutes. For me the decision was the easiest one I've ever made.

I've never accepted the stories of the Bible as anything but allegory. I am uncomfortable with the concept of supernatural and invisible spirits to say nothing of mysterious things like miracles and trinities. I did not understand people's willingness to accept blindly the supernatural aspects of religion. At now nearly 60 years old I cannot remember a time when I've not held these opinions.

Before we reached home, and without any in depth discussion, both of my sisters and I informed my parents that we would not be attending church any longer either. None of us felt coerced in any way nor did we doubt that my parents would indeed drive us to church every week if we expressed that desire. All three of us came to the same decision independently.

At that time, I must have sighed a great sigh of relief. I had long sensed that I might have been an atheist, although I do not recall that I had a name for it. I just never believed the stories; I thought they were naive and childish.

So I've never lost my faith because I cannot remember a time when I had any faith in a God, even when I was a regular church attendee as a child. I went through the motions, but I never really believed it.

[Baconfoot]

126. I never believed despite going to church at least once a week from age 6

My first reaction to the suggestion that Christ rose from the dead, at age 6, was "Are they serious about that?"

Before that my family made vague references to God but I didn't have any idea what they were talking about. I think I thought God was a kind of "superdad" or something.

[catbert836]

128. It happened slowly for me.

I used to believe fanatically in everything the church said, until I started meeting people from other faiths who I genuinely liked, and realizing that Catholicism (and most other Christianity) condemned them to hell. That could have sent me down the road to being a fire-and-brimstone fundie preacher, instead I started to believe that there was no absolute truth, but I remained a liberal Christian for some time. A while passed, and I took the BeliefNet test, which told me I was a Mahayana Buddhist. It was then I realized that I wasn't a Christian anymore, although I still had some sense that Christ was god. As I accepted my role of not being a Christian, I started to reject some of its myths, including the virgin birth, etc. I no longer believe almost anything the church says, but I still think Christ had the right message and others misinterpreted it for him.
I'm not an atheist/agnostic. I've started reading Starhawk's books, and since then I've been kind of an Earth-based pagan.
Edited for spelling.

[Az]

135. Never believed. But there was a time when I realized I was different

My parents raised me religion zero(UU talk for no religious upbringing). They were not exactly hard atheists but they had no trust of orthodox religions and felt no need to drop that on their kids.

So I never believed in god. Was never really indoctrinated into the belief. Never had it pounded into my head on a weekly basis. While I was in school it wasn't the religious battleground it is today. We all pretty much kept our beliefs to ourselves.

I was a cub/boyscout. It was fun. Had a lot of good times. Campouts. Learning. Just having fun. Then one year we had a jamboree. A big weekend event. Lots of troops from the area got together and hit the camp.

Near the camp was an observatory. Saturday night, those that were interested, went to the observatory. I was always a science buff. So this was right up my ally. It was great. I got to see the planets (some of them anyway) as close to seeing by naked eye as you could get. It was different from seeing them in books or on tv. It was inspiring.

The next morning (sunday) I awoke to find out we were all required to attend something called a Mass. Remember religion zero here. I thought I was just one of the kids. Nothing different. Got to this Mass thing and it was like the antithesis to the previous night. Lots of begging for mercy. Bowed heads supplicating for salvation. It just held nothing relevant for me. It was then looking out over all those bowed heads that I realized I was something different than they were. I was an atheist. I did not believe as they did.

[Taxloss]

137. Do you feel you atheism is somehow "weaker" for never having had faith?

Having had devout, passionate faith I feel gives my present atheism sharpness and clarity; I know the religious mind.

[Az]

138. I went about educating myself

Once I realized something was different I began examining what I had missed. I set out to explore the different world philosophies. At first I distanced myself from the theistic ones as they simply felt to alien to my thinking. Eastern philosophies held a much closer tack to the way my thinking seemed to flow.

To this day I consider myself in some ways a Taoist. I find its recognition of cycles and patterns in life to coincide with my observations. So to its acceptance of things for what they are. Rather than trying to contend with the way things are or lamenting one's own plight as a result of them I found Taoism instead lead one to observe how things are and work with what they present you.

However I never felt that any one belief was one hundred percent correct. So I fell into my challenging phase. I started ripping apart beliefs I found could not prove themself or had apparent flaws. After having my head handed to me by not understanding the flaws in my own arguments numerous times I felt I had to investigate my own reactions and intentions. I realized I was reacting emotionally instead of reasonably. This is ironic because I supposedly saw myself as a champion of reason.

So I had to challenge myself. I had to learn how to see things from other people's perspectives. I had to familiarize my self with the things I contended with. Thus I studied the bible. I engaged in dialog with rabbis and ministers and other clergy. I sought to understand the other views from beyond my single way.

My studies of cosmology and cognitive thought have been the source of strengthening and sharpening my views. But my descision to try to understand where those I disagree with are coming from has changed my cause.

They represent the things they believe and cherish. If all I have to offer is venom and spite then I trully have nothing to offer them. Each person believes the things they do not because they choose to. They believe them because they believe them. Their world view grew up around the premises they currently exist by. I am not going to make things better by trying to rip their world to peaces even if I happen to be right.

If I believe the things I stand up for then I have to show and demonstrate how they are positive things in the world. I have to represent them as best I can. I have to show that they are not excluding of passion and other human needs.

Isaac Newton was accused of destroying the beauty of unweaving the rainbow when he pulled the spectrum of light apart and exposed what rainbows really were. Just light being reflected at different wave lengths. But this simply is not true. Not only did he not destroy the beauty of the rainbow but he found paths to new layers of beauty and new ways of creating beauty that were hidden to us until then.

So while I cannot claim to have expereinced life as a religious individual I can honestly say I have worked to try to understand. The things I have concluded suggest to me I cannot take responsibility for destroying anothers beliefs. But I also believe I must represent the ideas and truths I have found. The balance of this is simple and difficult. It is possible if done with compassion and understanding.

[Taxloss]

140. As you might imagine, I had a very different background.

Coming from atheist parents who said I should form my own view of the world, in my teens I went on a veritable Quest for Truth. I read the New Testament and much of the Old. I read the Koran. I read the Communist Manifesto. I read The Wealth of Nations. Christ inspired me. Aged 18 I converted to Christianity and organised my own baptism and confirmation (by the Bishop of Oxford, no less).

I went through university as a Christian; sometimes devout (too much), sometimes slipping (even more). All the time I was attempting to purify my form of faith - I went to chapel three times a week, sometimes four, and only enjoyed the simplest of communions. The very lowest of "Low Anglican".

Around 1999, I began to find it was impossible to reconcile my faith with what I knew of the world. I was examining the possibility of converting to Quakerism when suddenly my faith just collapsed. It just fell apart in my hands, crumbled to dust. God had left the building. Since then, I've been an atheist.

[heidler1]

148. My Father was a Catholic Democrat & My Mother was a

Methodist Republican. When I was young my Mother was inclined to tell stories about her mothers death in a supernatural way, I don't remember ever believing the stories. I went to the Methodist Sunday School and Church very early in life. My Mother was very determined that none of her kids would end up Catholic.

When I was about four years old my playmate a Girl also four, who as I remember was as sweet as could be died in my arms from an electric shock.

After that I had night mares about the Devil being down in a hole with his pitch fork trying to push me down into his hole. The hole had inter connecting doors to adjacent holes that went on for ever. There was a narrow walk on top between holes that I was running on to escape.

Much later it occurred to me that if no one had told me about Devils I wouldn't of had the night mares.

[CarbonDate]

139. I didn't lose faith.

I gained enlightenment. It's hard to nail down a specific time, as it was a very gradual process. I sort of peaked when I was planning to become a minister but came to the realization that theatre was more important to me.

I realized that I was an atheist just this past year, but I actually have been one far longer than that. I just didn't know it.

[trotsky]

144. GREAT way to put it.

Like you, I don't feel like I lost anything but instead gained a new, refreshing, optimistic view on life.

Wasn't until my 21st birthday that I was able to admit to myself I was an atheist, though. Took me from about junior high up to that point, gradual steps.

[NAO]

149. The Dawn of The Age of Reason for me was 18 years.

I had been raised in a fundamentalist Baptist church and sincerely believed every bit of it. I encountered Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" and a volume titled "Ingersoll's Greatest Lectures". It took about 2 weeks of disorienting paradigm shift. After that, I have never even had a doubt that religion is all just made up.

Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Ingersoll's Greatest Lectures - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

[NMMNG]

150. I was 29

I'd been having doubts off and on for a few years already. Then I ended up taking a course in which I had to read several of Joseph Campbell's books. In one of them there was a statement by him along the lines of "God isn't real--he's something humans have made up to serve a purpose...". After reading that sentence I suddenly said to myself, "You know, he's right". That was the beginning of my atheism.

For about a week I had a feeling of betrayal; sort of a "everyone's been lying to me all these years" type of reaction. Otherwise the transition was smooth.

[really annoyed]

152. You are lucky!

For about a week I had a feeling of betrayal; sort of a "everyone's been lying to me all these years" type of reaction. Otherwise the transition was smooth.

You are lucky. I actually cried when my beliefs were smashed. It was really painful for me. My whole world was based on my Baptist teachings. I had to re-evaluate what I believed in and why - but I guess that's a good thing, because it brough me to the Democratic party!

I was a teenage Republican because I though that was the party of "God." Oh boy, I was silly. :silly:

[liberal43110]

151. "Gave up"?

Your use of the phrase "gave up on religion" struck me...because I didn't really give up on religion...as I started to think about serious subjects for myself, believing in God just never made sense. I suppose it was some time in high school.

[EmmaP]

153. Well,

I don't think I ever had any...so there was nothing to lose.

[demigoddess]

154. for me 6th grade. that year I was going to a nice church but one day

in sunday school they were talking about abraham and isaac and I suddenly thought what a horrible story to tell little children, that their parents can kill them and it is a good idea. Also that year, outside church one day I heard a bunch of the churchgoing men talk about a woman in a neighboring town was an atheist and that maybe they should go over and beat her up and 'maybe kill her'!!! Just because she was an atheist. Totally lost respect for church at that point.

[Az]

155. Eesh

Should put up a warning outside that church.

[ulysses]

156. guess I started seriously questioning freshman year in college.

It seems like it was a pretty natural process now (no big trauma that led to a loss of faith, although I've had experiences that might have), even after having been a pretty strong believer, but I don't think I'd ever given up my capacity for thought anyway.

I think it needs to be said that a lot of people of faith haven't given up their capacity for thought either.

Agnostic now.

[Odin2005]

157. Gradually from around age 14 to age 16

I could not reconcile science with faith. I could see no evidence of design in nature, no evidence of a grand plan. It became apparent to me that we created God in our own image, not the other way around.

[NAO]

158. I was 19. I am 39 now. 20 Years of Freethought!

[NMMNG]

159. It was indoctrinated into me around age 8, and I lost it at age 29

[spunky]

160. Doubted all my life, certain around 16, left church at 17 n/t

[PerpetualWinter]

163. About 12, but I didn't get kicked out of church until...

14. I consciously realized I was a follower of the Left Hand Path when I was 18.

[PassingFair]

165. 12 when I was able to state it outright.

I never really bought into "fundamentalist" aspects of christianity. My mother was an Episcopalian who believed in the "allegories" of the bible and the divinity of Christ. She made us go to church every Sunday, but it was no fire and brimstone type of place.
My Dad was an atheist, but he and my Mom had some kind of agreement that he wasn't supposed to tell us about it....
He was a wonderful, funny guy who didn't EVER get worked up over things he couldn't change. Steady, easy-going and always dependable for a joke.
He died a horrible death from Lou Gehrig's, so there's your reward for you...
Anyway, the one thing he liked about my mother's church was the minister. He though he was a GREAT guy. When the minister's daughter got knocked up out-of-wedlock, it was my Dad who counseled HIM.
I had "confirmation" class when I was 12, and with the questions I asked, the minister knew what was coming and took me aside and told me how much it would mean to my mother....so I was confirmed, but I stopped going to church after that.
The last time my father stepped foot in a church was for that minister's funeral. He cried.
I have nothing against believers in the supernatural, I just don't understand the mechanisms....

[Midnight Rambler]

166. I would say around the time I was 17 or 18

But it was another year or so when I finally admitted it to myself. Not that I was ever very faithful to begin with, of course.

[PatrioticLeftie]

167. I am agnostic and I do not

Consider my changing from Catholicism to agnosticism 'giving up on religion and God', I simply believe there is no 'correct' method of worship or faith.

[unpossibles]

168. a long process

First of all, I have always been interested in mythology from many cultures - I would read as much as I could about Greek, Roman, Norse, Buddhist, Egyptian, American Indian, etc. belief systems because I thought they were cool and full of neat stories and allegories.

We were never brought up very religious - we went to church sometimes, but it was never stressed as something that important. Being a good person and using reason and logic were more important in my family.

I remember getting in trouble in grade school when we were studying Greek mythology and I made comparisons to "Christian mythology" - and told that Prometheus and Satan are not the same thing, etc.

Then, when my mom died when I was 13 (and it was me who found her), I went through a brief 'seeker' phase, trying to find solace and peace and a reason why an essentially good person would die. After a few years of this I pretty much abandoned Christianity, yet still tried to find what I thought I needed in other religions, or at least dabbling and reading about them because at this point, I figured the game was rigged.

As I got older, I still believe that there are many things which we do not understand, but refuse to codify those things as an old guy in a robe, and strongly reject the hypocrisy in most (if not all) organized religions.

I consider myself an agnostic mostly, if anything. I have no problem with the idea of someone wanting to commune with god(s), or even to want something spiritual without gods, but think a "middle man" is not necessary.

[Jokerman]

169. I was born an Atheist.

Never had a religion to give up on.

[Zhade]

170. So was every single human being ever born.

NT!