Laughing off the 'Rapture' when we should be laughing off religion

[Bozita]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/05/religious_zealot_gets_it_wrong.html

The atheist perspective: Laughing off the 'Rapture' when we should be laughing off religion
Published: Monday, May 23, 2011, 11:37 AM Updated: Monday, May 23, 2011, 11:52 AM
By Darrell Dawsey


Becky Friedman stands outside a rapture party on Saturday, May 21, 2011 at Dorky's Arcade in Tacoma, Wash. Groups of local atheists gathered at the arcade in Tacoma on the day that radio minister Harold Camping predicted would be the beginning of rapture. AP Photo



So no Rapture this weekend, eh? No end of the world. No return of Christ. No vanishing of Christians in the "twinkling of an eye." LOL.

Sure, most people, even among the avowedly religious, weren't expecting much more than another spring weekend. But that didn't stop many in Metro Detroit and the rest of the country from counting down as the clock and calendar moved toward 6 p.m. May 21, the day some religious kook named Harold Camping slated for the "end of the world."

Predictably, preachers all over were quick to dismiss Camping, but I suspect this was largely because he had the audacity to actually stamp a date on his craziness and put it on billboards all over Metro Detroit (well, that and the fact that this marked his second failed prediction of "end times").

-snip-

So why is it only the people like Camping, who somehow get segregated from the rest of so-called Christianity, are treated as if they are only one small and irrational strain of the belief? Why do we get to laugh at Camping, but somehow allow the larger idea behind him—the idea that some divine, supreme intelligence is dictating our lives and has his grubby little hands in everything from earthquakes in Haiti to the outcome of pro football games—to escape mass scrutiny?

No, there was certainly no real evidence that should've led Camping to believe that the world would end this weekend. But really, where is the verifiable, independently testable proof for any of this craziness that we embrace and accept as incontrovertible truth?

more...

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. You mean atheists need to laugh off religion MORE?

Heh. The only people more obsessed with God than Christians are atheists.

[bobbolink]

2. !!!

:applause:

[Fumesucker]

3. Maybe it has something to do with hearing about God all the fucking time..

Indeed, God is on the money in my wallet and the change in my pocket, every political speech is ended by invoking His name, the Pledge of Allegiance was even altered to put God in that.

The more virulent God botherers are dragging our country into the muck politically and no one but the atheists seems to care to stand up to them and point out what nonsense it all is.

If Christians would actually read Jesus words in Matthew 6:5 and follow His instructions the whole issue would be moot.

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. So...religion is nonsense, but you're referring to scripture to prove your point.

:crazy:

:rofl:

[originalpckelly]

6. No, the point is that even by Christianity's own bullshit...

you're all full of crap.

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. Who said I was a Christian?

I'm more amused by poking the atheist beehive every now and then to watch the show. Highly entertaining.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. The point is that the Christians (and those taking their part)

do not follow their own standards. If they did, this conversation would not be happening. The hypocrisy is that of a man eating a pork sandwich demanding that you respect his kosher diet. Highly dishonest.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Meanwhile, atheists bang their heads against the wall trying to prove nonexistence of God

...with the same results, every time.

I'm going to call the insanity wars a push.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. They simply don't belilve, they are not 'trying to prove' that is

your characterization. Which is foisted in defense of those who organized and passed Prop 8. This is why it is not a push. And why you are very much off base in claiming that. Look at Uganda, where the 'faithful' want to kill gay people. Now look at it again.

[DatManFromNawlins]

34. The burden of proof is not on the atheists

[Sinistrous]

36. Standard Fail.

Atheists aren't trying to prove the nonexistence of a god, they are merely waiting for believers to come up with some thing better than wishful thinking as proof that a god does exist.

[dmallind]

59. Thus proving you don't even know what "atheist" means

Making the rest of your opinion a wee bit less useful thsn most on the topic.

[cleanhippie]

63. No, they dont. They band theor head against the wall of ignorance put up by religious believers.

[Goblinmonger]

43. So you say you love doing that

which you hate the atheists for? What would that make you?

[Fumesucker]

14. Pointing out that Christians can't or won't even follow their own rules is funny?

You must be very easily amused.

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. I'm amused by thin-skinned atheists, yes.

They have MEETINGS to discuss things they DON'T believe in.

That is funny.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. While the 'faith community' has meetings to discuss whose

civil rights to attack with millions of God Brand Bucks. Which one does harm to others? Which one claims to follow a faith that says never harm others while they actually do the opposite?

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. Then stop caterwauling at me and run go do something about it. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Characterization. This is a discussion on a discussion board.

You are simply being shown the utter vacuousness of your snark based 'position'. That happens on a discussion board, discussions. I mean, it is you who started this, why don't you 'go do something about it'? It is the straight community and the faith community you defend that is doing harm to my community, the responsibility is not mine alone, Dreamer.

[dmallind]

60. We discuss how to limit its overweening intrusion in our lives really. NT

[HappyMe]

7. Oh, snap!

:yourock:









:popcorn:

[catabryna]

11. Ewwwwww.... ouch!

:yourock:

[Raffi Ella]

21. As well we should be.

Separation of Church & State, remember that law? Christians are working against it every day of the week 24/7.

So, yeah, you're damn right I'm 'obsessed'. Everybody should be until Separation of Church & State is real. And until Christians stop Preaching from the pulpit OR they lose their Tax Exempt status, one or the other.

Christians want their cake and to eat too. I want them to shut their fucking mouths and keep their GOD DAMNED religion to themselves. I don't give a SHIT what they think and I certainly don't want them on the NEWS when Politics are being discussed- Is that too much to ask in this Democracy?

Why yes, YES it is according to the theocratic Christian Taliban of America.

Fuck them.

[Dreamer Tatum]

23. So funny. Thanks for amusing me. nt

[Raffi Ella]

27. right.

and thank you for taking the time to read my post~ :dem:

[trotsky]

29. Your logic would also lead to the conclusion...

that the only people more obsessed with Republicanism than Republicans are Democrats. We sure to talk about and mock them a whole hell of a lot on DU.

[WolverineDG]

39. They were also more obsessed with Harold Camping

if it weren't for the never-ending Rapture posts here, I wouldn't have known Saturday was supposed to be anything special.

dg

[elocs]

49. Now THAT is an insightful comment.

:thumbsup:

[ZombieHorde]

69. The only people more obsessed with the race camps than whites are the Japanese. nt

[Township75]

5. So some in the Athiest crowd are bigger losers than those in the Camping crowd.

That is what a bunch of people that actually used their free time to go to that site and march around with a sign on are.

I didn't pay attention to Camping before his prediction, I didn't watch the media suddenly obsessed with the moron, and I definitely won't watch a bunch of complete fucking losers with no goals in life march around triumphantly like they did anything important by not believing Camping.

The rest of us know Camping isn't worth listening to, much like Limbaugh, most politicians, and pretty much anyone on cable news. And we don't pat outselves on the back for just having that type of common sense.

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. +1 nt

[snooper2]

13. Actually we do it for fun...

Sometimes we leave flyers on cars while people are listening to "the word of god"

Sometimes we just laugh...

It's such an easy target though, you do have a little bit of a point. That's when we go and play frisbee golf :)

[AlecBGreen]

70. you are so... totally... wrong...

its disc golf :P Im just glad you didnt call it Frolf

[cleanhippie]

64. I see that the POINT flew right over your head.

Go back and read the BOLD part in the OP. Maybe you will get it the second time around.

[aquart]

10. But if we didn't have religion we'd murder each other over football.

Or over which end of the egg we break.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Would you also organize against gay rights over football?

Do team fans spend millions to strip the rights from the fans of another team?

[ChoppinBroccoli]

12. Oh, Sky Cake.............

.......why are you so delicious?

[nessa]

19. There are many things, that people experience...

that do not have "verifiable, independently testable proof" and yet they exist, Love comes to mind. Just because you have not experienced it, does not mean the experience is invalid. Some atheists are every bit as closed minded as some of the most fundamentalist, literal religious person.

[Goblinmonger]

41. Um, I believe those that study the brain can, and have,

tested for which receptors fire up when feeling love. I'm an English teacher, so I'll leave the technical description to others, but love can be tested.

[nessa]

56. That's not really proof, is it?...

I don't think there is a physical test that certifiably proves all kinds of love, love of a mother for a child, for example. Our brains react to all kinds of things including prayer. How is it possible to sort out why neurons are reacting?

People experience things, if a person experiences God and knows that they do, who is anyone else (other than a very closed minded person) to say, "well I don't experience that so it doesn't exist".

Most faithful people can't be talked out of their faith. Their experience and the validity of it, does not depend on anyone else accepting it.

Not all religious people are truly faithful people.

[Goblinmonger]

57. People can believe what ever they want

Once those beliefs start impacting my life, then I get to say it's bullshit. Keep it to yourself and in your church and I'm good to go. Start making laws and pushing it on me (abortion, gay marriage, God on my currency, in my pledge, etc. etc. etc) and I get to question it.

I will leave it to the brain experts, but I believe parental thoughts and romantic/erotic love are different portions of the brain.

[nessa]

62. Every vote about every issue is a move to force a belief or value...

on the rest of us.

What difference does the motivation behind the vote or political action is? If a person votes against gay marriage because they just don't like it, is that better than a person who votes against gay marriage because of their religion? The result is the same.

Everyone holds values for many different reasons and presumably everyone votes for things based on those values. Everyone also absolutely has the right to question it, should question it and do their best to counteract it if they disagree with it.

I wonder about the effectiveness of mocking it, but of course you have every right to mock as they have every right to mock. I just suspect that it's not a particularly effective strategy for either side.

I also know there are many things about our brains, about our world and about our universe that we can't explain, verify, test or prove. That does not mean they don't exist.

[cleanhippie]

65. Perhaps you should educate yourself a bit more, instead or relying on those in your church

to give you correct information.

[TroglodyteScholar]

25. Looks like a LOT of DUers are superstitious. Recommended. n/t

[kestrel91316]

28. Not sure why the rabid atheists feel the need to denigrate any and all

spiritual belief systems.

If somebody's religion isn't doing you or anybody else any harm, just GIVE IT A REST. Stop tarring everybody who isn't just like you with the same brush, folks.

I really hate people who insist that everyone else be just like them, regardless of their particular beliefs or lack thereof.

[Occulus]

30. Atheists aren't passing laws foisting their denial of religion upon believers.

That's why the denigration of others' beliefs. It would be a non-issue if Christians didn't pass specifically Christian laws, but they do, every chance they get, and gleefully.

Christianity does me harm every day of my life. I will never 'give it a rest'.

NEVER.

[kestrel91316]

52. Christianity is ANYTHING but monolithic. Surely you don't rank

liberal churches like the Episcopals and such, and MYOB churches like the Quakers and Mennonites and Amish with the fundie whackjob Dominionists aka fundies/Southern Baptists/Foursquare Gospellers/etc??

Seriously?? They ALL harm you????

You are deranged.

[Raffi Ella]

32. Ha!

You poor persecuted person you, NOT.

Don't even try to throw up that smokescreen. It isn't the Belief system I care about; it's the fact that YOU THROW THAT BELIEF SYSTEM UP IN OUR FACES AND WANT TO MAKE IT LAW FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

Stop insinuating yourselves into Politics if you don't like our opinions on the subject! The fact is you ARE doing others harm with your religion! If you're Preach Politics from Pulpit you better BELIEVE secular America is gonna have something to say about it!

And if you're a Liberal Democratic Christian then Make Yourself Heard! Get out there and take your religion back form the Christian Taliban Lunatics.

But don't sit here and cry at me that I should shut up and stop painting all Christians with a broad brush when Christians are the ones who won't leave the rest of us the hell alone.

[kestrel91316]

53. I am not a liberal Democratic Christian. I practice no religion at all.

But I do NOT consider all or even most Christians my enemy, because most of them hate the fundies just as much as I do.

"...Stop insinuating yourselves into Politics if you don't like our opinions on the subject!..."

SERIOUSLY??? You want me to STFU because I don't want all religion banned??

You will make NO friends with that attitude, not even a nonpracticing neopagan ecofeminist with Anabaptist leanings like me.

[Goblinmonger]

42. You really think that christianity

doesn't have an impact on my life? Anti-abortion laws? Gay marriage? Being shoved in my fact ALL the time. I don't even live in the Bible Belt and I have "Jesus Died for your Sins" billboards on the highways. If you could leave the religion in the privacy of your own home and church, I promise I will say nothing about it. But that doesn't happen.

I's amazing what the world looks like from a position of privilege.

[ljm2002]

47. Totally agree about faux Christianity being shoved in our faces...

...all the time, and also about the effects on laws etc.

But be careful what you wish for. China's Cultural Revolution included the state disallowing any religion whatsoever, and also included the one-child rule which caused many abortions and even worse, infanticide, especially of female offspring. The point being, religion is not the only source of intolerance and unreasonable restrictions on people.

That is why the separation of church and state is so important as a principle, and it's too damned bad that our fundies here in the States are trying to overthrow that bedrock foundation of the American experiment.

[kestrel91316]

55. The rabid atheists hate our Constitution just as much as the fundies do.

One wants to ban all religion even though the Constitution specifically protects it, and the other wants to force us all to practice their narrow interpretation of just one religion.

What parts of "freedom of religion" and "separation of church and state" don't you all get???

[cleanhippie]

67. You are now fabricating things.

"rabid atheists want to ban religion"? Really?

[Goblinmonger]

76. You have a link to that?

Anything? Because I'm calling bullshit.

[Goblinmonger]

75. I have no desire to have state mandated atheism.

But getting religion out of our government all together would be great.

[ljm2002]

81. Understood...

...I didn't mean to imply that you were calling for state mandated atheism, just pointing out that state mandated religion is not the only pitfall.

Of course the right answer is no state mandated religion and no state mandated atheism either.

Agree with you on getting religion out of government. Of course it'll be a cold day in Hell before that happens... (oh wait a minute, maybe that's the wrong metaphor to use here :-) )

[Goblinmonger]

82. Cool enough

There are people on this board that have said I am calling for state mandated atheism (because I want a secular government--go figure).

Cold day somewhere, anyway. :evilgrin:

[kestrel91316]

54. What "position of privilege" do I happen to hold, pray tell???

Seriously. W. T. F??

I hate the fundies probably more than most because i have for decades truly understood what they want to turn this country into. But I am not willing to deprive the majority of Christians (who mind their own business) of their Constitutional freedom of religion.

Most mainstream religions and churches support the separation of church and state. Those who do NOT are our enemies.

[dmallind]

61. Ask Larry Hooper. Call Fred Whitehead at work. They can tell you. nt

[Goblinmonger]

77. As a believer.

And the RCC is a mainstream church. Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that they don't want to have the laws reflect their dogma? Tell Catholics it is a mortal sin to vote for a politician that supports abortion rights? Telling Catholic politicians that vote for abortion rights that they can not have communion until they change? Yeah. Blow smoke up someone else's ass, thank you.

[cleanhippie]

66. I guess you missed the point being made.

The part in BOLD in the OP is the point.

[Forkboy]

31. At least these people had the guts to set a date.

Most people who believe in Revelations won't even make a stand. Cowards. ;)

Personally, I see little difference between this group of believers and any other.

[KurtNYC]

33. Atheism, in this context, is a religion !

Religion and spirituality are 2 different things. The framing of atheism plays into a false choice: religion vs. atheism. If you are holding parties in reference to the rapture then you are functioning as a religion. That is: gathering allegedly like-minded people in a semi-public ritual that makes the participants feel morally superior to others.

I'm thankful that ISN'T the real range of choices.

[Lance_Boyle]

37. 'If you are holding parties in reference to the rapture then you are functioning as a religion'

Hell if that's all it takes then most of the bars in my area are really churches. Maybe they ought to see if they can get in on the Catholics' locked-in market for Sunday-morning alcohol...

You might want to revisit your notion of what makes something a religion.

[ljm2002]

35. I'm no fan of organized religion...

...but I find this formulation to be disingenuous:

"the idea that some divine, supreme intelligence is dictating our lives and has his grubby little hands in everything from earthquakes in Haiti to the outcome of pro football games"

There are many, many Christians whose theology is much more sophisticated than that. Furthermore, there are many religious people who do not blindly accept simplistic mainstream theology. For example, Christian mystics and Sufis.

One certainly can take potshots at religious mythology, especially when people are determined to take obviously metaphorical tales as literal truth. However, the religious impulse seems pretty universal among human beings, and cannot be dismissed so easily IMO. It is a sense that there is something bigger than oneself, that we are all connected, and a recognition of the awesomeness of the universe / nature / life itself.

Science can tell us how things work, but it fails at the "Why?" questions. Well maybe "fails" is the wrong word; science is not designed to answer the "Whys?" as in "Why are we here?". Yet people everywhere ask that question and seek to answer it.

Science also is limited. Even very good science (e.g. Newton's mechanics) may be superseded by new knowledge (Einstein's relativity) which may in turn be superseded (quantum mechanics). That does not invalidate the laws of mechanics, or of relativity, which are still used successfully every day. But those who thought the laws of mechanics or the laws of relativity covered Everything, were shown to be mistaken. Now when you get into the processes of living things, it gets even more complex and we have not even begun to decipher how it all fits together.

Then there are questions of morality. Again, establishment religions tend to try and codify everything into a bunch of rules of Dos and Don'ts, and then the rule sets ossify or worse, are used as a tool of oppression. But we do have a moral sense, which is universally formulated as the Golden Rule, and is part of most religions. This is not a scientific formulation. Science tends to fall more into the model of zero sum games, and behavior is constrained by considerations of survival and little else if you are to limit your understanding to the scientific view. Yet few of us would want to live in a world where survival was the only arbiter of behavior.

So I think there is a place for religion (or spirituality, if you prefer) if only to keep our minds aware that there is always more out there than what we know of; that our knowledge is necessarily limited and we should never assume that we already know everything there is to know.

[Lance_Boyle]

38. 'sophisticated' self-delusion is no better than any other

"Sophisticated" religious adherents are like "functioning" alcoholics. Able to walk the sober man's walk, but really just as broken in matters of reasoning.

[ljm2002]

46. So there's no room in your world view...

...for spirituality?

It's easy to take potshots at the more ludicrous aspects of religion, such as an insistence that God is a white-haired man in the sky, or that the world was created in literally 7 24-hour days, or that our Earth is 6,000 years old. I would join you there. But dismissing spiritual yearnings as a whole, I think is indicative of an impoverished world view.

Atheists, of course, have a belief system as well. Their belief system rejects any notion of God (or presumably, spirituality) out of hand. What we can see and measure, apparently, are all that there is. At least agnostics are open minded about it. As a friend of mine says, "I don't know and neither do you."

Anyway, it is always interesting to see how black and white people try to make it.

[cleanhippie]

74. "Atheists, of course, have a belief system as well" - Yeah, and Bald is a hair color, too.

And Not Collecting Stamps is a hobby.


Both of your posts are attempts to rationalize your worldview that the supernatural exists, in some form.

You are attempting to bring those that reject that view, because there is not a single piece of evidence to support any such notion, down to your irrational level.

:puke:

[ljm2002]

78. Please define "supernatural"???

You say that my comments betray a worldview that the supernatural exists. But I did not make any such statement. I believe that life is a property of the universe, and therefore arises naturally from the universe, and therefore that the universe is in some sense divine. That is because I believe in the divinity of life. That would not imply that life is "super"natural, rather it is natural and nature is divine.

I also believe that the world, and the web of life, and the universe, are very large and complex, far more than the ability of any one individual to grasp. I also believe that our knowledge is limited, very much so in fact, and that there are non-analytical ways to apprehend reality that also lead us to knowledge and understanding.

I am absolutely pro-science and the scientific method. However, I don't think that science is the only valid form of knowledge. Science is an analytical enterprise, i.e. it analyzes what is and exposes the inner workings. Interestingly, some of the best creative science began with a hunch, or sometimes the scientist even had a dream showing the way to a new theory. A religious person might say that scientists reveal the wonders of God's works (as many scientists past and present have said). I don't believe in "A God" as such, certainly not as some personified being. So I'll leave it that science explores Nature's wonders.

Analysis is great, and has propelled us as a species. But it also has pitfalls. It can lead to tunnel vision and a failure to see or account for the big picture with its interconnected systems. It can lead to the hubris of believing that we know, or can know, everything. As I pointed out, scientific theories are often superseded by later knowledge. Scientists could not explain for the longest time how hummingbirds and bumblebees could fly, yet they kept right on flying. Zeno very carefully explained how we cannot ever reach a goal, given that we must always travel one-half of the way, then another half, and another half, ad infinitum. Yet we all know from experience that this is not how it works in reality. Call it the leap of faith! :-)

Sorry if that makes you barf. :shrug:

[cleanhippie]

79. Supernatural = outside and beyond the natural world.

1. of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)



One can speculate that the supernatural exists, and its ok to do that, but to insist that we all take that idea as a respectable worldview is ludicrous.

And what makes me puke is not your speculation about the supernatural, but your attempt to bring those that reject the supernatural, because there is no evidence to support that it even exists, down to your level. I guess you missed that part.

Calling atheists the same as believers is like saying bald is a hair color or that Not Collecting Stamps is a hobby. You feeling me?

[ljm2002]

80. But I did not insist that anyone take a worldview...

...of any kind, merely pointed out that atheists by definition adhere to a belief, namely that there is no "God". Now I recognize that this belief is grounded in the lack of (scientific) evidence that "God" exists. But really, what would constitute such evidence? First of all we would have to posit a description of what "God" is.

Really the argument seems to be a worldview of pure rationality vs. one that allows for more than rationality. I refer you to Goedel's Incompleteness theorem in defense of my own position that rationality, in the form of logic, does not and cannot encompass all of reality.

I do not subscribe to any theory of the "super"natural. Rather, I allow that what is natural is greater than we can or do imagine. In fact, discoveries are constantly being made that expand our knowledge of what is possible. For example, given the theory of relativity and the speed of light as an upper bound on how fast anything can travel, it follows that instantaneous action at a distance is impossible. Yet Alain Aspect's experiments, based on Bell's Theorem, have shown that such a phenomenon does exist. We don't understand it, we are not able to state scientifically any mechanism by which this can happen, and yet it does occur. Does that mean it is "super"natural? Not at all -- it is natural but we don't (yet) have a scientific understanding of it.

But understanding something is not just knowing stuff about it from an analytical, scientific point of view. There are other areas of knowledge about life and being human that are not scientific and analytical in nature, and they are as valid and enriching as scientific knowledge. That is not a rejection of scientific knowledge, just an acknowledgment that there are other valid sorts of knowledge and understanding.

As for your statement that I am attempting to bring others "down to (my) level", please. I am doing no such thing and I reject the notion that my "level" is less than yours, or vice versa for that matter. I am attempting to explain a belief system that acknowledges there is more to life/existence/the world/the universe/nature than what can be expressed in purely rational or analytic terms, that is all.

[cleanhippie]

83. See, you are doing it again.

merely pointed out that atheists by definition adhere to a belief, namely that there is no "God"


Friend, as we atheists are not a formal group, and many may give definition to the word differently, I can only speak for ME, and know that many other atheist also agree, but atheism is a LACK of belief, not a belief.

Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you, but your posts all use the broad brush that atheists HAVE a belief, and that really is not the case, we have a LACK of belief. Hence the analogy of BALD being a hair color or Not Collecting Stamps a hobby.

Is BALD a hair color?

Is Not Collecting Stamps a hobby?

Understand?

[ljm2002]

84. We seem to be talking past each other...

...but I do understand your point, namely, you reject any belief system having to do with God or anything "supernatural" that cannot be supported by evidence.

No problem.

[cleanhippie]

85. Exactly.

Now, can you rephrase your point putting it into THIS context? Maybe I will be better able to understand.

[Silent3]

86. I could claim that tree sprites are a "natural" part of the universe...

...and that the universe arises "naturally" from that alleged condition so that there will be trees for the tree sprites to inhabit.

That word play won't change the fact, however, that tree sprites are a supernatural concept.

While life itself isn't supernatural, any alleged "life property" (or however you'd phrase this concept) purported to exist separately or independently from, or prior to, known instances of life is a supernatural concept.

[cleanhippie]

73. Winner!!!!!

[Keith Bee]

40. Unrec

I'm agnostic, but most believers I know are reasonably sane people, so I don't laugh at their beliefs.

[skip fox]

44. The type of cartoon we saw this last weekend will help create skepticism

overall, to the effect another 10% of people will start seeing the entire "toon network" (not just of Christianity!) for what it is.

By the end of the decade if these jokers keep up their shrill sermonizing, then the majority of US citizens might look at religion as a fraud.

Then, well minded people can continue the good things the church has done in terms of poverty, homelessness, etc. (One doesn't need religion to be moral!
)

[CBGLuthier]

45. All (some) Atheists want is to be as big an assholes as (some) Xians.

Rude is rude. Belittling other people's beliefs is RUDE.

[trotsky]

50. So we shouldn't belittle Fred Phelps' beliefs, then?

Just let him be?

[CBGLuthier]

58. Who was talking about him? I am talking about the beliefs of many on DU

I am talking about the beliefs of a hell of a lot people who aren't assholes.

But of course, since you can point out a few idiots who use religion as part of their idiocy I must accept that you can laugh at decent people who never did anything like these idiots.

But it is still rude.

[trotsky]

68. Ah, I see.

It's OK to mock some beliefs. The ones you are alright with mocking. Got it.

[sixmile]

48. We should be laughing that we have so much free time to care

Including time spent anonymously posting to message boards !

[Lucian]

51. Religion is a relic of the past...

from a time when man couldn't explain natural phenomena so they attributed it to a divine, supreme being or beings.

With science around now, and explanations happening all of the time, I think it's about time to get with the times and get rid of religion.

[Evoman]

71. Waste of time...I'm not gonna say shit about this rapture bullshit. I do think it telling though

that Christians, even moderate, will almost ALWAYS back the crazy.

If an atheist makes fun of a crazy christian, moderate christians will yell at the atheists and tell them they're mean.

If a christian fundies says something bad about atheists, moderate christians will yell at the atheists and tell them to not be so sensitive.

I don't fucking care anymore. As long as you ALL stay out of my face and the people I love, then do whatever the fuck you want at your churches. You are not worth my time.

[laconicsax]

72. How insensitive!

:sarcasm: