it's not illegal for a parent to choose prayer over medicine

[MyrnaLoy]

in Idaho. "Too many little kids are dying over needless things that can be cured," says a man we're calling Jacob. He's a former member of the Followers of Christ Church, which has at least three branches here in the Treasure Valley, including one in Caldwell, another near Lake Lowell and one on Ten Mile in Meridian. http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/122269274.html

[canetoad]

1. Children are involved. It's emotional. nt

[ixion]

2. Nor should it be...

in my opinion. People ought to be able to make their own decisions, even if it's to their detriment

[brooklynite]

3. They're NOT making their own decisions...

Deluded parents are making the decision for their own children.

[Fumesucker]

4. Exactly..

[ixion]

5. Like it or not, they're their children, not yours

[Fumesucker]

6. What if the child has appendicitis..

And the parents pray over him rather than taking him to the doctor?

Would you like to be that child?

[LiberalLoner]

7. Is it okay for parents to murder their own children, since their

children are "theirs" to do with as they please?

[blueamy66]

9. So, we should just sit by and watch parents

do whatever they like to THEIR children, cause they are THEIRS?

effed up thinking....

[H2O Man]

10. That is faulty reasoning.

A healthy society allows room for many family-based decisions. Those involving health and safety are the accepted exceptions. When I worked with "domestic violence" -- primarily child neglect and abuse -- many of the parents involved said things such as, "They are my kids." That does not cover everything.

[Ian David]

15. "Ignored" often uses faulty reasoning. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. Dude, you're missing. I say this a lot, and I'll say it again:

You can't alert on ignored posts.

[Ian David]

29. I might clear-out my ignore list after the rapture tomorrow. n/t

[CreekDog]

11. doubling down on a bad post?

:eyes:

[ixion]

12. Not bad. Just an opinion you don't like

I know it's not a popular opinion around here, but it's mine and I'm sticking to it. Allowing the State into your private life is an invasion of privacy, like it or not.

[CreekDog]

13. letting your kid die needlessly is not your personal right

as others here have accurately told you.

[Fumesucker]

14. Deliberately not seeking medical help for a seriously ill child is negligent homicide at best..

If the child dies.

I would personally call it murder..

I would have died as a child without medical intervention, this is rather personal for me.

Of course I'm here because my parents were not religious whackadoodles who didn't believe in medicine.

[Fuddnik]

16. They take kids away from asshole, incompetent parents all the time.

[ZombieHorde]

20. Do you think parents should be allowed to have sex with their kids?

If not, why not?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. You are, essentially, advocating murder. It's that simple. Fourth checkbox.

[LeftishBrit]

25. Should the state be able to intervene if parents are starving their children?

Depriving children of medical care is in the same category.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. It's the child's life, not the parents'

So this is not "allowing the State into your private life". The child's life is not private to the parents.

You said "people ought to be able to make their own decisions, even if it's to their detriment"; but this is to the detriment of the child, not to the parent making the decision.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. Tell me if this was an unduly "invasion of privacy by the State":

I eagerly await your answer.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-kids-drywalled-in-room,0,740840.story

Parents Accused of Drywalling Children into Feces Covered Room

BRISTOW, VA (KTLA) -- A man and woman have been arrested on three counts of felony child abuse and neglect after allegedly sealing their three young daughters inside a filthy room. (...)

Police say the girls, ages 4, 2 and 4 months, were locked naked in the room over the weekend. (...)

Police say the room where they found the 2 remaining girls was covered in feces and urine.

They believe the girls were locked inside the room for about a day. All three are now in foster care.

[ZombieHorde]

19. We don't allow parents to do whatever they want with their children.

We don't allow a lot of abuse and neglect. Denying a child life saving medical treatment is intensely neglectful.

[cleanhippie]

21. and parents have the legal responsibility for the health and walfare of their children.

That includes medical care, not prayer.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

22. You don't own your children.

They aren't aren't property, they're human beings. We don't allow parents to rape and beat their children. The same goes for denying medical care. They aren't slaves, they're human beings. They have rights, and their parents can't just do whatever they want with them.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. delete

[Arkansas Granny]

17. Parents make decisions for their children all the time. It's what parents do.

[Fumesucker]

23. Parents decide to kill their children and are not punished?

Deliberately not seeking medical attention for a seriously ill child is negligent homicide at best.

This is personal for me because I would have died if my parents had been religious whackadoodles who didn't believe in medicine.

Should my parents have been free to let me die as a small child with no punishment?

[LeftishBrit]

27. Of course. But there are some decisions that constitute neglect or abuse

It is not acceptable for parents to starve their children, or turn them out in the snow without a coat, or beat them senseless, or let them play on the motorway.

Depriving children of necessary medical care is in the same category. The problem here isn't about parents who pray; it's about parents who pray INSTEAD of calling the doctor.

[Odin2005]

31. Kids have a right to be protected by society from idiotic parents.

[catabryna]

8. Not terribly suprised that they branched out to Idaho...

I went to school with kids who attended the branch in Oregon City. Quiet kids who kept to themselves. Of course, this was back in the 70s and 80s. My guess is that most of the children are homeschooled these days and Idaho is much more conducive to living a fringe religious lifestyle.

[qb]

18. This is the case in Minnesota too. Several years ago there was a prominent case

involving a mother who allowed her diabetic son to die a miserable death. The Legislature considered protecting the rights of children to have needed medical care, but they caved under the guise of "religious freedom". :puke:

[struggle4progress]

32. Attorney General Opinion No. 93-9

... You have asked whether Idaho's religious exemption provision, which allows parents to treat their sick children through "spiritual means," limits administrative or judicial authority to provide medical services to children ... Our opinion is that the statutes do not conflict, and the state has authority to act on behalf of ill children ... Just as Idaho Code § 16-1602 defines child "neglect" to include lack of medical treatment, Idaho Code § 16-1616 provides the court with the option of providing a child with medical treatment whether or not the child's parent consents. In other words, nowhere in Idaho law does the religious exemption provide that a child cannot be medically treated if prayer is not effective and the child's life is endangered. Idaho's religious exemption references do not limit either administrative or judicial action when medical treatment for children is deemed necessary ...
http://www.ag.idaho.gov/publications/op-guide-cert/1993/OP93-09.pdf

Whether or not Idaho aggressively protects children, but the state has a statutory basis for intervention; the court, if intervening, must "consider" the religious beliefs of the parent(s) but this does not imply the court must invariably defer to such beliefs

2010 Idaho Code
TITLE 18 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 15 CHILDREN AND VULNERABLE ADULTS
18-1501 INJURY TO CHILDREN.
(1) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of such child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits such child to be placed in such situation that its person or health is endangered, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one (1) year, or in the state prison for not less than one (1) year nor more than ten (10) years ...
(4) The practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to have violated the duty of care to such child.
(5) As used in this section, "willfully" means acting or failing to act where a reasonable person would know the act or failure to act is likely to result in injury or harm or is likely to endanger the person, health, safety or well-being of the child ... http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2010/title18/t18ch15sect18-1501.html

2010 Idaho Code
TITLE 16 JUVENILE PROCEEDINGS
CHAPTER 16 CHILD PROTECTIVE ACT
16-1602 DEFINITIONS.
For purposes of this chapter ...
(25) "Neglected" means a child:
(a) Who is without proper parental care and control, or subsistence, medical or other care or control necessary for his well-being because of the conduct or omission of his parents, guardian or other custodian or their neglect or refusal to provide them; however, no child whose parent or guardian chooses for such child treatment by prayers through spiritual means alone in lieu of medical treatment shall be deemed for that reason alone to be neglected or lack parental care necessary for his health and well-being, but this subsection shall not prevent the court from acting pursuant to section 16-1627, Idaho Code ... http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2010/title16/t16ch16sect16-1602.html

2010 Idaho Code
TITLE 16 JUVENILE PROCEEDINGS
CHAPTER 16 CHILD PROTECTIVE ACT
16-1627 AUTHORIZATION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TREATMENT
(1) At any time whether or not a child is under the authority of the court, the court may authorize medical or surgical care for a child when ...
(b) A physician informs the court orally or in writing that in his professional opinion, the life of the child would be greatly endangered without certain treatment and the parent, guardian or other custodian refuses or fails to consent ...
(3) In making its order under subsection (1) of this section, the court shall take into consideration any treatment being given the child by prayer through spiritual means alone, if the child or his parent, guardian or legal custodian are adherents of a bona fide religious denomination that relies exclusively on this form of treatment in lieu of medical treatment ...
(5) Oral authorization by the court is sufficient for care or treatment to be given by and shall be accepted by any physician or hospital. No physician or hospital nor any nurse, technician or other person under the direction of such physician or hospital shall be subject to criminal or civil liability for performance of care or treatment in reliance on the court’s authorization, and any function performed thereunder shall be regarded as if it were performed with the child’s and the parent’s authorization ...
http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2010/title16/t16ch16sect16-1627.html