Catholic Church Issues Guide on How to Convert Witches

[Angry Dragon]

Feb 4, 2011 – 7:27 AM
Theunis Bates

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/04/catholic-church-issues-guide-on-how-to-convert-witches/

LONDON -- Five hundred years ago, the Catholic Church had a simple way of dealing with witches: It burned them alive. The Vatican still views these broom botherers as a danger, but is now calling on Catholics to eliminate the neo-pagan problem in a more moderate manner.

According to a new booklet from the Catholic Truth Society -- the U.K. publishers for the Holy See -- the faithful can convert Wiccans by following a few simple steps. The pamphlet, titled "Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Dangers," suggests that Catholics spark up conversations with these unbelievers about shared concerns such as the environment, The Telegraph reports.

And if you bump into a witch in a bar or coffee shop, the book adds, it's important to recognize that "Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest," providing "the starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion."

The booklet's author, former Wiccan Elizabeth Dodd, states that nearly 70 percent of people indulging in witchcraft are young women seeking some kind of spirituality, according to the Daily Mail. The source of that statistic isn't clear, but some 7,000 Brits identified themselves as Wiccans in the 2001 census.

more at link http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/04/catholic-church-issues-guide-on-how-to-convert-witches/

[ensho]

1. all those residing in the vatican should be converted into prison

may they stop bothering witches

[Gman]

3. The hatred for the Catholic Church here at DU never ceases to amaze me

It never stops.

[arbusto_baboso]

5. Let's be clear: it isn't hatred for the Catholic Church.

Rather, it's hatred for the idiotic, bigoted, destructive things the Catholic Church DOES.

If you don't see the difference, then you are merely an apologist.

All that being said, I think most American Catholics are good people. Not because of their church, but IN SPITE of it.

[Gman]

11. There's nothing wrong with being an apologist

You and I and everyone else here are technically "apologists" for the left. That being said, I am glad you, for one, do see the difference between the humans that run the church and what the church stands for. Too many here don't, much less care.

[arbusto_baboso]

15. I think most here DO see the difference.

You just don't happen to like the way they express themselves. It's a knee-jerk reaction. Calm down, breathe, and just think about what's actually being said.

[Gman]

19. I can't tell

No Catholic I know (not that there aren't any) believes the church is without fault in a great many things, including the Holocaust (for which JPII belatedly apologized), and much more. Most Catholics in the US simply disregard many of the church's teachings but still go to mass on Sunday. Once when our church had a prayer service after mass against abortion, all but a small handful of people even stayed.

I'm breathing now...!

[Maru Kitteh]

90. So you know a bunch of bad Catholics who vote for hate every Sunday with their tithe.

And in gratitude for their loyalty and their money, the church threatens regularly to hurl their souls towards hell for their insolent disobedience. We all know quite well what the church thinks of Catholics who do not toe the line. That many find such an enterprise distasteful comes as some great surprise to you?

[roguevalley]

105. the church needs to leave pagans alone. I am sick to death of

the catholic and ANY church thinking these people are in error and need saving. Fuck that.

[cleanhippie]

115. "Most Catholics in the US simply disregard many of the church's teachings..."

Most Catholics in the US simply disregard many of the church's teachings but still go to mass on Sunday.


then that makes them hypocritical apologists.

[trotsky]

98. "What the church stands for" is what its leaders say.

Surely you know this - it's the reason why Ratzinger has cracked down on non-traditional teachings and ideas. Disagree with the official church policy as dictated by its leaders, and you risk excommunication.

[Goblinmonger]

101. Interesting take.

Most RCC apologists don't want to go back into the history of the church and what it stood for. At what point do you want to look at what it stood for? Right now? Pedophilia cover ups. The "great" reign of JPII and Mother Teresa? Read some of what Hitchens found about her and he did his share of cover ups. Pre-Vatican II? good luck.

I know many catholics who are great people, but the church (i.e. the hierarchy and leadership which IS the church--RCC is not a bottom up organization like a lot of protestant religions) is pretty fucked up.

[roguevalley]

106. I loved John the 23rd and felt hope with him but not anymore. Not

with a hitler youth running the show and did your read they issued guides to their bank about dealing with the mafia. Its all sad.

[olegramps]

122. John Paul was dedicated to wiping out any memory of John XXIII

The church is now firmly in the control of the Opus Dei freaks thanks to John Paul II the pedophile enabler.

[SpiralHawk]

80. + 1,000

= 1,000

[Atypical Liberal]

99. Sure it is.

I hate any institution that promotes mysticism and mythology over reason.

Don't make excuses for hating such institutions. There is no need. Mankind will be ever so much further ahead when the majority of people don't turn to such institutions to help themselves feel better about life.

[houstonintc]

116. Aren't they allowed to....

Disagree with other religions?

I mean isn't that just bound to happen?

Perhaps they are not being tactful or classy in doing it but still.

[Renew Deal]

6. .

[justiceischeap]

7. The hatred the Catholic church has for witches and gays never ceases to amaze me

it just never stops. Yet they work really damn hard to protect pedophiles.

[Angry Dragon]

10. Question for you

How should one feel about a church that promotes themselves as the only true path to salvation, says that they will tolerate other religions as long as the others believe that the catholic church is the only true church, that gays are evil and immoral?? A church that treats women as second class people, tries to force others to believe as they do when it comes to abortion, birth control, and sex education??

Continues to this day to try to hide priests that molest boys and girls, that feels the victims share in the crime??

There is a difference between finding fault with a church verses the people that believe in that religion.

[Renew Deal]

31. Why shouldn't the faithful of a religion believe that they are the path?

It's sort of the point.

[Angry Dragon]

38. There is a difference between the faithful and the church

The church being the leaders, in this case the pope.
When the leader of a church tells me I am evil and immoral and does everything he can do to make others feel the same way about me, I have a big problem with that. I have done nothing to him, so why is he attacking me??

[Renew Deal]

41. I think you're mixing up issues.

Like I said, it's sort of the point to think that your religion is the one. Even many non-believers think they're right. Of all the complaints, that's the smallest one.

[Angry Dragon]

50. I agree with you on that point

I believe that people travel on a path of discovery that works for them, because we are all different. I let others choose their path and try not to force them to believe as I do. There are many ways to get to the same place.

[roguevalley]

107. actually, the church started as one and then blew their franchise

over their fixation on property, etc. Since then its all splintered into a plethora of competing ideas about technicalities. I don't use a church to consider God and the teachings of Jesus. I find that counterproductive to what I'm receiving.

[Dappleganger]

72. "Conversion" implies that the one who needs to be converted is broken

and on the wrong path. This is what bothers me, why the need to proselytize if your faith is the "right" one then won't people naturally want to turn to it? And you cannot deny the church's history of "converting" people at the point of the sword, burning, or wiping out entire cultures is absolutely disgusting.

[Rage for Order]

46. What curch are you referring to?

"...a church that promotes themselves as the only true path to salvation..."

I attended Catholic school for 9 years and we were never told - by nuns, priests, or teachers - that the Catholic religion is the only true path to salvation. When I asked (in class) what happened to people who do not attend church or follow a different religion I was told that they had to serve time in purgatory before they would be admitted into heaven.

:shrug:

[Angry Dragon]

53. Many years ago I read an article ........and no link

The article came out of the catholic church stating that unless one believed in the catholic church one could not receive salvation.
It was stressed that the Universal church, being the catholic church, was the only true church.

[CatholicEdHead]

87. That is the way the current Conservative power structure sees it

Not so much with the previous generation of Catholics.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. From the catechism and Vatican commentary on it:

816 "The sole Church of Christ (is that) which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

[Angry Dragon]

76. Thank you ............. you said it better than I did

[roguevalley]

108. the mere idea that they served in purgatory underscores the idea

that the catholic idea is the only one. no one serves in purgatory. what a stupid idea that was. no one has a lock on wisdom and the god that loves us all doesn't favor one over the other. that idea is man's ego talking.

[ensho]

12. we should love child abusers?

nt

[Gman]

14. And the string of replies I get from the haters

just verifies what I said.

[Fumesucker]

22. When you get treated like Giordano Bruno..

Then you'll have something to really complain about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

And besides, aren't Christians supposed to rejoice when they are persecuted for their faith?

[darkstar3]

111. That would be WHY so many are so quick to claim persecution when it isn't there.

[justiceischeap]

24. I hate any religious institution that preaches hate and not love.

Notice I didn't say anything about the people who belong to said institution. As others have said, it's the institution not the people. I mean, the Catholic Church in DC pulled aid from the homeless because DC passed same-sex marriage rights. How screwed up is that to punish a group of people (whom have nothing to do with the other) because they didn't like what another group of people did; offering equal rights to people that the Church doesn't agree with.

[Gman]

57. Yeah, like Jesus would be so pleased with what they did in DC

[Goblinmonger]

102. And who made you the standard bearer for all things Jesus.

I would venture to guess that the leadership of the RCC is a tad more versed in theology than you are. Probably more familiar with the bible than you are. I'm sure they have strong dogmatic and theological reasons for their position on gays (and all other dogmatic issues). Perhaps Jesus is squealing with delight in heaven over the workings of the RCC. If you don't like the interpretation of the RCC as to what Jesus would want, I would suggest you find a church more in line with your thinking because the RCC ain't going to change. Don't believe me, read up on the Cardinals that will be picking the next pope and tell me if you think they will pick a liberal one.

[Gman]

103. Sounds to me like you want the RCC to have the positions you love to hate

go figure.

[Goblinmonger]

104. No, I hate the position the RCC has

and has had for quite some time. Prove me wrong that this isn't the position of the church.

I was very close to being a Catholic priest. Have several very close friends that are priests. They are great people. The leadership of the RCC is screwed up, though. I don't see how people continue to give that leadership their money and the power of their numbers.

[Renew Deal]

30. That argument can be turned around on you

and you won't like it.

[walldude]

40. If the shoe fits...

When you hate you bring hatred upon yourself.

[yellowcanine]

49. Ease up. If someone puts out a book about converting witches they will get needled about it.

Doesn't matter if it was from a Catholic, Lutheran, Jewish, Morman, etc.
It's human nature and you would be wise not to take it personally. People are aware that there are different kinds of Catholics just as there are different kinds of everything else and that one is not responsible for what every Catholic organization does or even what the official position of the Catholic Church might be on something.

[DesertRat]

109. It's the reason I'm no longer a donating member of DU. n/t

[cleanhippie]

114. Wow, way to get defensive. I think you are just projecting the TRUE hatred.

Its the christian churches that HATE everyone else. You seem to have it confused.

[fishwax]

45. for the record, this isn't actually the Vatican or the catholic church issuing this

It's an independent publisher.

[DainBramaged]

2. They really are fucked up......

The Catholic truth Society.....when they eliminate pedophiles from the Church, maybe then I'll give them a chuckle.....

[Renew Deal]

4. It seems like the old way was less time consuming

:grr:

[yellowcanine]

Well based on the Monty Python and the Holy Grail, it could get quite involved.

http://www.montypython.net/grailmm1.php#Scene%205

[ck4829]

8. This effort will fail because they fail to see the true problem

The problem isn't Harry Potter or Satan, it's that organized religion is driven by archaic dogma and even though their doctrine calls for them to help the poor, they would rather make sure people aren't being gay and keeping women from controlling their own lives.

[yellowcanine]

9. "...if you bump into a witch in a bar or coffee shop..." Has this happened to anyone here?

I have never "bumped into a witch" in a bar or anywhere else. Where does one go to bump into witches? I would like to try it. It sounds as if it could be fun. I'm serious.

[ensho]

16. kick lol

nt

[white_wolf]

17. I have a good friend

who is Wiccan she is very interesting to talk to. She is also a lot nicer and more understanding than the majority of christians I have met. It sometimes makes me wonder if she is on to something.

[justiceischeap]

20. I bump into a witch everyday, one of my roommates is a witch. nt

[Renew Deal]

33. I'm sure you have.

But she may not have been carrying her broom and her pointed hat was covering the wart on her nose. :D

[MorningGlow]

37. Okay, stand right there

I'll be over in a few minutes. :D

But you raise a good point--many witches "fly" under the radar. We can look like everyone else (unless we're duded up for a special occasion) AND most of us don't run around shoving our beliefs in other people's faces. So most people have bumped into witches and just never knew it.

[yellowcanine]

54. I would rather bump into a witch than an earnest evangelical Christian "Praising the Lord" every

other sentence. That can be quite annoying.

[Poll_Blind]

56. No kidding, I live in Eugene, Oregon and I bump into witches ALL THE TIME.

There's even one who rides the bus, pointy hat and all. I would call him a warlock but, really, I think his Chosen Alchemist Designation is "witch".

PB

[yellowcanine]

66. Wow. I knew there were Mennonites in Eugene but not witches. Mennonite witches?

Now that's a concept. Actually some Amish do practice "pow-wow" healing, which some people would consider witchcraft.

http://www.berkshistory.org/articles/pow-wow.html

[Odin2005]

110. LOL, I work with a "witch"! (Wiccan, actually).

She would mop the floor with these idiots.

[Fumesucker]

13. "Convert" into what? Charcoal? n/t

[xchrom]

23. ...

:spray:

[Renew Deal]

32. lol

:rofl:

[MorningGlow]

18. This witch says

AAaaaahaaaaaahhahaha good effin' luck. :rofl:

For the record, I was raised Catholic and have no problem with Catholics and their beliefs. But they sure can't change my mind about what I believe.

[Renew Deal]

34. You changed once, you can change again.

Would you like to get a cup of coffee with me? :evilgrin:

[MorningGlow]

39. Sure!

I might be persuaded to engage in conversion-oriented dialogue...and see which side gets converted to what at the end of it. :evilgrin:

[Renew Deal]

43. lol

:rofl:

[barbiegeek]

71. Are you happy that they no longer advocate burning?

And no I'm not joking. I think it's good that they are saying don't be afraid-it's progress it a weird way (to their advantage, but better then a kill em stance).

[MorningGlow]

96. Hmmmm--is that a Hobson's Choice? I was never very good at defining one of those.

Strange question--seems unlikely that I would say "Gee, I'm kinda nostalgic for the old days, otherwise known as The Burning Times." :shrug:

I don't agree that this is progressive at all; if it were progressive, the Church (or, after reviewing the details, this organization) would say "Go ahead and be a witch or whatever you want--it's cool" instead of targeting another belief system for conversion.

[stuntcat]

21. makes me wanna be a witch

if I had to be anything I mean :p

[yellowcanine]

35. Not if it means Catholics are going to be bumping into me all the time though

in bars and coffee shops. And trying to talk to me about religion. At least the Jehovah's Witnesses are predictable. You can see them coming up the street on a Saturday all dressed up carrying their religious literature and you usually have time to make yourself scarce before they get to your door.

[MorningGlow]

100. Meh, it's easy to shake 'em

You whip out your wand, flash your pentacle, and they scurry off. :D

[Drale]

25. Why would a witch want to be "Converted"

If I had awsome powers like that I'd never give them up lol :rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. Wiccan Church Issues Guide on How to Convert Catholics

if you bump into a catholic in a bar or coffee shop, the book adds, it's important to recognize that "Catholics are on a genuine spiritual quest," providing "the starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion."


See how stupid it sounds?..... now leave me the fuck alone and keep your religion out of my coffee shop and bar.

[MorningGlow]

27. Witches don't convert

Primary rule: "An (if) it harm none, do as thou wilt." Love the dialogue, love the understanding, reject the attempt at conversion for every persuasion. We recognize there are many paths toward he same goal.

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. I know.... but you need to get a pamphlet going anyway otherwise

your coffee shop time will be wasted.......LOL

[MorningGlow]

29. Hee

I'd rather spend the time drinking my coffee and editing my novel. Pamphlets and shit? Too stressful. :toast:

[davsand]

78. Exactly! I go to the coffee shop for the coffee--not a theology discussion!

It probably wouldn't offend me near as much as some yahoo trying to burn me at the stake, but if it is all the same, I'd rather be left alone to enjoy the wi-fi and my latte.

Different strokes, I reckon...

:shrug:




Laura

[MorningGlow]

97. Exactly--there should be room for everyone

I thought proselytizing was a directive of other Christian denominations, not Catholic...

[MurrayDelph]

36. This is not just a problem with Catholics

as a Jew, I have been approached many, many times by various "Christian" denominations trying to "save" me.

Also, in my younger, single, days, I was hit on by a few gay guys.

And, in every situation, the gay guys were more polite and accepting of my "no, thanks, not interested" than the Christians.

So, tell me again which shouldn't be protected because it is a "lifestyle choice"

[yellowcanine]

52. Yes, one is far more likely to be approached by an evangelical Christian than by a Catholic.

Catholics for the most part tend to leave other religions alone.

[ladywnch]

42. well, I guess it is better than burning them at the stake! n/t

[fishwax]

44. the reference to CTS as "the U.K. publishers for the Holy See" is a bit misleading

That makes the company sound more official than it actually is. CTS is an independent organization that has been designated "Publishers to the Holy See," which basically means that they are one of the publishers that the church hires to locally publish its official documents. But it doesn't follow that other materials produced by the CTS are produced by the Catholic church.

[AngryAmish]

47. very small rocks?

[Bragi]

88. Don't even go there! /nt

[LibertyLover]

48. As a former Roman Catholic and now Wiccan

I am both amused and angered at this latest attempt by the Catholic Church to gain converts. If Ms Dodd finds her new religion brings her spiritual fulfillment, well bully for her. However all I can say is "butt out of my life bitch". I am not interested in returning to the patriarchal travesty that is the current Catholic Church. Nor would I raise my daughter as a Catholic. Why the hell can't the patriarchal, monotheistic religions leave us alone?

[yellowcanine]

69. To be fair, Evangelical Protestants proselytize much more than do Catholics these days.

This actually seems to be something of an exception. And I doubt that it is going to be a big deal. Probably just some eager new priest bucking for a promotion.

[jeepnstein]

120. How true.

Before I had a church, but was looking, the Catholics I knew basically wanted nothing to do with me. They viewed converts as objects of disdain or suspicion. They did me a favor, I suppose.

[Scottybeamer70]

51. Ha

Makes me want to study the Wiccan way...........

[Bragi]

55. Does it say you CAN'T burn them?

Just wondering. I think an alternative to burning is good, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

[Angry Dragon]

62. They don't burn witches in the US

against the law

[Bragi]

64. Damn, I stop paying attention for a few days and...

...they ban witch burning!

I assume that ban only covers public space, and under the First Amendment we can still do it on church property, right?

[Angry Dragon]

65. +1

[Renew Deal]

73. Witch burning is only banned in San Francisco

You can't do anything in San Francisco anymore.

[yellowcanine]

77. Open Burning laws would nix witch burning in many places.

And even where open burning is allowed one has to be cognizant of bans which may be in place when the danger of forest fires is high.

[Bragi]

81. This whole "rule of law" thing gets tedious real fast

Life was better when this was covered by the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

[yellowcanine]

84. Yes but "tedious" is good if it means NOT getting burned for being a witch.

Some excitement I can do without.

[Bragi]

86. Sounds like witch-coddling to me /nt

[redwitch]

91. LOL

I am liking this thread lots.

[cecilfirefox]

58. Sorry, but this Wiccan is sticking with what he gots-

Even if I am a quasi Hare Krishna/Hindu part of the time.

See, I have a personal issue with religious organizations that knowingly and deliberately allow priests to fuck children.

[FLPanhandle]

59. Why would they trade one fantasy for another fantasy?

IMO, both beliefs are B.S. but at least the Wiccans have a less horrific history.

[cecilfirefox]

60. Actually, there's really a reason why their doing this-

Paganism is the fastest growing religion in America, probably North America to. That's something that has been well established- give it about 20 or so years and I think you'll see some far larger representation in the population then we currently have.

The reaction against this religious movement by the Catholic church, in my mind- is partly a reaction against the decline of the church and Christianity in general.

[yellowcanine]

82. Ahem.... "they are" or "they're", not "their"

Sorry, can't help myself. English was one of my favorite high school classes and I was very impressionable.

[JuniperLea]

61. This reminded me of one of my favorite Carl Sagan quotes...

"Science is an attempt, largely successful, to understand the world, to get a grip on things, to get hold of ourselves, to steer a safe course. Microbiology and meteorology now explain what only a few centuries ago was considered sufficient cause to burn women to death."

~ Carl Sagan


Someone needs to get a grip, methinks.

[FLPanhandle]

70. +1

One of my heroes that guy.

[fishwax]

63. The headline is incorrect

I guess, for the sake of clarity, that's probably the subject line I should have used in an earlier post about how one of the comments within the article was misleading. In making that post, I somehow overlooked the fact that the headline is even more misleading, since CTS is not the church or an official organ of the church.

[Angry Dragon]

67. Just took the title as it was written

[fishwax]

74. I know, Angry Dragon

I saw that your subject line was simply taken from the headline on the article, so I directed my comment to the headline :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. The moral of this is: Don't depend on stories sourced from the Daily Mail

The first source for it, a blog by a Daily Telegraph, is actually correct, in that it never says it's the Roman Catholic church writing this, but an author, published by the 'Catholic Truth Society' (he even gets in a dig at the church, saying "You wouldn’t read anything this feisty from the Bishops’ Conference, but that’s typical of CTS, which stopped watering down its Catholicism years ago and is thriving as a result").

Both the Telegraph and the Mail are right wing papers; but the Mail is, in addition, hopeless at checking facts (and lazy - it frequently takes someone else's work, changes a few sentences, and calls it 'by a Daily Mail Reporter'). So it introduced the false claim in the headline "How to cure a witch: Catholic Church issues guide in Britain to turn the tables on Harry Potter", and went on to say the church published the pamphlet.

An the AOL writer has read the 2 stories and combined them, with a few extra details, without checking to see if the Mail has got things wrong or not.

[hedgehog]

68. Granted that this pamphlet is from an individual rather than the institutional Church,

I'd love to see the Vatican come out and denounce those who attack witches. The belief in malevolent witchcradft is strong in parts of Africa. Many people have been burned as witches in recent years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7413268.stm

[yellowcanine]

79. It must be Friday to get this much discussion about witches.

[Bragi]

83. Brave talk from a religion built on pagan foundations /nt

[Better Believe It]

85. Witches are people too!

:)

[loudsue]

92. Well....back on topic: This is a good way for witches to convert catholics

Is it easier to believe that a snake in a tree is talking to you about eating a piece of fruit, or that the earth is a living organism? My money is on the witches. The really BIG money is on the Catholic church. Really big.

[Kurovski]

94. Same thought, same moment!

11:58 :)

[Kurovski]

93. Please folks, let's not bore the witches.

But on the other hand, they then might be able to convert Catholics to Wiccan...hmmmm...

[loudsue]

95. LOL!

Great minds, and all that! :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

112. Their pamphlet on how to convert NAMBLA members worked really well.

(that is a joke)

[dimbear]

113. We don't need new guides. If the Malleus Maleficarum was good enough

for our grandfathers, it's good enough for us.

[spin]

117. I know several witches and they are kinder and more caring than most Christians ...

the ones that I know also don't run around judging people.

I like their threefold law:

The Threefold Law (a.k.a. the Law of Return) adds a reward for those who follow the Wiccan Rede, and a punishment for those who violate it. The law states that:

"All good that a person does to another returns three fold in this life; harm is also returned three fold."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm

If a Catholic began a dialog with a witch, he might well end up questioning his own faith. Many of the Catholic rites and rituals are based on paganism.

How the Catholic Mass and Catholic Churches Are Reflective of Pagan Traditions

Most Catholics can go through the Catholic Mass in their head without any problem. They can point out major characteristics at a moment's notice without hesitation. They can picture what the inside of a Catholic
Church is without being inside. What most Catholics don't know is that much of the Catholic Mass and design of Catholic churches has been taken from pagan rituals.

***snip***

Older Catholic churches are in the shape of a cross. Many people believe that this is to remind a person that Jesus died on the Cross. It was actually taken from many of the ancient pagan designs that would have a wing of the temple face north, one to the south, one to the east, and one to the west.

***snip***

The Catholic altar has a cloth that covers it, and candles around it. The ancient druids used to cover their altar in a white cloth, and would have candles around to ward off evil spirits. They would also have a knife or dagger on the altar.

At one time, priests used to keep a dagger underneath the altar to signify the power of God. Later, the daggers were given to the Knights that would protect the priest and the gold in the Church. These Knights then turned into ushers, but they do not usually carry weapons anymore.

***snip***

When the Christians moved into the land of the Celts, they saw how the druids prepared the altars, and that they blessed water, wine, and bread. The druids did this on a regular basis.

The Church then changed the altars so that they would look the druidic altars. The Church also made the decision to have Communion at Mass on a regular basis.

When the Reformation happened, many of the Protestants decided to do away with many of the old pagan customs since they were portrayed as being evil. This is why most of the Protestant churches do not look anything like Catholic churches.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/286594/how_the_catholic_mass_and_catholic_pg2.html?cat=34



[Deep13]

118. I'm still waiting for the RC Church guide to slaying dragons. nt

[Angry Dragon]

119. Dragons never hurt anyone

that didn't deserve it

They never flamed or ate anyone until they were attacked

[olegramps]

121. Who would know best how to convert witches than the Catholic Church

since they created them in the first place with the publication of the "Witches Hammer" that inaugurated a mass slaughter of women, men and children. This is one of the least publicized topics since both the Catholics and Protestants were caught up in this madness that was only halted with the Enlightenment. Religion has always attracted sexual perverts to shield their dysfunctions. The monks who directed the torture of innocent victims were nothing more than sadists who derived sexual satisfaction out of others suffering.