Local Christians rally for Haiti

[AlecBGreen]

http://www.artisanshope.com/

Two friends and members of my church own a restaurant. They are frustrated that the world seems to have forgotten about the earthquake in Haiti and the desperate condition of the people there. To raise awareness they and others slept outside in tents in front of their store. To raise money, they sponsored a Haitian dinner @ their restaurant. They contacted other local business and got the food & utensils donated while they (my friends) donated their time and that of their staff to cooking & serving the meal. Chicken, beans & rice, slaw & fried plantains were served for $10, with 100% of all money going to Haiti. A silent auction was held next door at Artisans Hope, a non-profit store owned by a local Mennonite church. A local Haitian man was there as well, 'haggling' with customers over rice and beans, all proceeds going to his home country. The restaurant was jam-packed, with the line doubling up on itself and people eating standing up. More than 500 people showed up and $4000 was raised. The majority of people who came were Christians (if you dont know who Mennonites are, they are hard to confuse :) )

I get the feeling that some think ALL religion is bad, it has nothing good to offer. In this small corner of the world, it had a positive impact. These people were motivated by their belief to help the less fortunate and made something happen. Could the same be performed by an atheist couple? Yes of course, but in this case, it wasnt. They ARE Christians and their beliefs motivated them to do something. In this instance, belief has yielded good fruit.

[AlecBGreen]

1. p.s. check out the store.

They've been free-trade since before it was cool :7

[Deep13]

2. I really didn't think most Christians shared Robertson's view...

that a pact with Satan has caused most of Haiti's troubles. I have no doubt that Christians as well as members of other religions support works of charity. I just think those people would probably be doing that whether they believed in a supernatural god or not.

[AlecBGreen]

8. its hard for me to say with any certainty what others might do

in my own case, my belief led me to throw in $10 for two reasons. #1) If I wasnt a Christian I would never have met these people, would not have heard about the event on the church listserve, etc.

Putting that aside, I almost skipped going. I was driving home and was tired. I have a 90 minute commute (ugh) and was wrecked after work. All I wanted to do was go home, put my feet up and have a beer. As I was passing the exit I was thinking of all the reasons NOT to go: tired... hungry... anti-social... tight budget... half an hour too early, etc. Basically I had decided I wasnt going to go and my ego was coming up with a number of reasons to justify my selfishness.

Suddenly a thought popped into my head: "Do what you've always done, get what you've always gotten." I am a selfish, self-centered person and I dont want to be this way. I want to change. Here was my opportunity! Two verses came to mind: "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." and "He who seeks to save his life will lose it, but he who gives up his life for my sake will gain it." In other words, stop hanging on the my old way of life and become a new person.

I pulled off, went to the store and gave $10. In this particular case, my belief in God led me to give money that I would otherwise not have given.

[Silent3]

3. If you took the Christian religion away, would the good deeds go away too?

Could the same be performed by an atheist couple? Yes of course, but in this case, it wasnt. They ARE Christians and their beliefs motivated them to do something.

I don't often (if ever) hear anyone saying that Christians never do good things. Atheists acknowledge that religious people do many good things, just as you have stated you know that atheists can do good things.

The question is whether the religion is instrumental or incidental -- I think it is incidental. I question whether "belief has yielded good fruit" or whether this is a case where belief is merely unnecessary window dressing on good acts that would happen anyway.

As a percentage of GNI (gross national income) the most generous countries tend to be the least religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_charitable_countries). While the US ranks highest in over all money given due to it's size and aggregate wealth, individual Americans give less than one fifth as much of their individual incomes to charity compared to the far more generous, and far less religious, Swedes.

It could be that some charity done via religious groups in the US flies under the radar of the statistics gathered here, but that issue is highly unlikely to account for a factor of over 5.5 in relative donations.

Heart-warming anecdotes asides, there's more of a case to be made that religion could possibly interfere with generous impulses, or perhaps turn those impulses inward as in-group giving, such that the charity becomes an internal affair that doesn't show up as well in these kinds of statistics.

In some of these statistics strongly Muslim countries outrank strongly Christian countries, but overall the least religious appear to be the most generous.

[AlecBGreen]

5. thanks for the thoughtful reply

"The question is whether the religion is instrumental or incidental -- I think it is incidental. I question whether "belief has yielded good fruit" or whether this is a case where belief is merely unnecessary window dressing on good acts that would happen anyway."

Its very hard to reduce something as complex as a person into their individual characteristics and think, "What would they be like if they didnt have quality X?" As a student of biology its similar with ecosystems, and as a farmer, its similar with soil science. Take nitrogen for example. If we add nitrogen, plants grow better, ergo, we should add more nitrogen to get more food. By doing this we have poisoned soil all over the planet. Take gray wolves. A herder in Mongolia says "Wolves eat my sheep so if I kill all the wolves, Ill get more sheep." The absence of wolves led to an explosion of rabbits which threw the prairie ecosystem into chaos and led to a decrease in stocking capacity (less sheep). I think its the same with people. If I take away this quality or add that, its affects go beyond the immediate and obvious. So the questions "Did their belief cause them to give? Would they still give without belief? " are hard ones to answer definitively.

This is all I can say with certainty: Christians are called by God to help those in need, and doing so is an act of worship of God. Faith apart from works is dead.

The numbers you cite are for government aid ("To qualify as official development assistance (ODA), a contribution must contain three elements: 1.) be undertaken by the official sector (that is, a government or government agency) ...).

I looked up "private charitable donations by country" and found this. Its from the American Enterprise Institute so take it with a grain of salt but it appears Americans donate far more than any other nation.

[cleanhippie]

4. Thats great news! But are they doing that because they are christians or

because they care about other people? I don't think being a "christian" has anything to do with it other than the fact that there was an already established group of people who felt the same way and acted. If they all woke up tomorrow to find that they no longer believed in the christian god, would they halt their efforts to help those in Haiti? I think not.

[AlecBGreen]

6. a good question

see my reply to Silent3 above. Long story short, Christians are taught that serving the needy is a form a worship. The NT is jam-packed with urging, exhorting, commanding believers to take care of the less fortunate. It seems logical that a believer ought to be highly motivated to serve the poor. In the particular case of my two friends, I think yes, they WOULD still help the poor without their belief. Thats just the type of people they strike me as. However like I said to S3, its hard to disentangle all the qualities of a persons character. In my completely biased opinion then, I think these two would help the poor without belief, but the fact that they are believers has pushed them into doing more than they might have done w/o that belief.

[Matt_in_STL]

13. An interesting thought

You are saying that these people would not be as generous if they were not Christian believers. So, they aren't doing this completely out of kindness for their fellow man, they are doing it for their god and to gain favor with him. In otherwords, it is a selfish move on the part of the believer rather than an act of kindness toward mankind.

While you bring up atheists and how they may not have been as motivated to be generous and help, that is a fallacy and complete guesswork on your part. The one thing we can gather from this is that the atheist would do it strictly out of kindness, with no motivations of a heaven or hell, and not to gain favor with a supernatural being. The atheist does it out of love for their fellow man, thus making it a much less selfish act.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Something that begins as a religious duty can becmoe a habit of the heart

I'd never claim that only religious people can be charitable. Food Not Bombs did some excellent work in Portland with their Picnic in the Park, serving soup or chili to the hungry.

However, churches can provide an organization and facilities. Most churches have commercial kitchens originally designed for social events for parishioners but just as adaptable for charitable works. Churches provide a ready source of volunteers--often, as Alec said, bringing together people who would never work together otherwise. Churches can cooperate with other churches to make sure that needs are covered.

Each of my parish's meals serves over 100 people, sometimes as many as 300. (Variables include the weather, the state of the economy, and the time of the month--we get more at the end).

If we and the other churches stopped serving meals, providing drop-in centers for the homeless, providing clothing for people who are going on job interviews, setting up transitional housing for street people, providing free space for self-help groups, mentoring young families who are struggling to get out of poverty, or providing emergency assistance (through the clergy discretionary funds) for individual hardship cases, the larger society would NOTICE.

[Silent3]

16. In the short term, yes, but in the long term?

Obviously charitable infrastructures take time and effort to build, so a sudden cessation of operation of any charitable organization, regardless of its central organizing theme -- be it Christianity, Scientology, or Red-Headed Men with Beards -- would result in at least a short-term negative impact for those in need of charity.

That's a very different issue, however, from any particular religion, or religion in general, being a necessary or helpful condition for increasing charitable activity over the long term, compared to what might go on with little or no religion as a motivating factor.

[AlecBGreen]

7. p.s. it IS great news!

its very encouraging to see others lead by example. They work so hard and on a limited budget but they make a difference. Its inspirational and makes me think, "If these two, as busy as they are and as on a budget as they are, can afford to give and do so much, what excuse do I have?" Dont get me wrong, I dont think shame should enter the equation as a motivating factor, but the their actions make me question my own situation.

[jeepnstein]

9. The hard part...

of giving according to the way Christ intends is to give literally until it hurts. That whole trusting in Him thing really holds many of us back. When it's done according to the Book, Christianity is a really beautiful thing. Problem is it's awfully hard at times and the temptation is to just pick and choose the parts that are easiest.

I'm not there yet. I don't know that I'll ever be. But I do know the last couple years of prayer and the challenges I've faced have taken me in a direction that I never really intended to take.

[moobu2]

10. If Christianity was so beneficial to society

then why is it that almost every person in Haiti is Christian, near 100%, and there are churches and cathedrals everywhere, but something like 45% of the population is completely illiterate? Why do 30 something percent live in constant hunger? Haiti is a tropical paradise, but one of the poorest countries in the world. I cant remember the statistics now but it's crazy. TB is a major killer of adults, a relatively huge number of women die in childbirth, the infant mortality rate is off the chart. Why cant Christianity solve any of these problems? In Haiti, they've had a couple of hundred years to improve themselves now. Anyway, seems like that is the case in many 3rd world countries. Wonder why?

[rug]

11. It has more to do with history, geopolitics and imperialism than it does with religion.

1807-20

Civil war racks the country, which divides into the northern kingdom of Henri Christophe and the southern republic governed by Alexandre Pétion. Faced with a rebellion by his own army, Christophe commits suicide, paving the way for Jean-Pierre Boyer to reunify the country and become President of the entire republic in 1820.

1821

President Boyer invades Santo Domingo following its declaration of independence from Spain. The entire island is now controlled by Haiti until 1844.

1838

France recognizes Haitian independence in exchange for a financial indemnity of 150 million francs. Most nations including the United States shunned Haiti for almost forty years, fearful that its example could stir unrest there and in other slaveholding countries. Over the next few decades Haiti is forced to take out loans of 70 million francs to repay the indemnity and gain international recognition.

1862

The United States finally grants Haiti diplomatic recognition sending Frederick Douglass as its Consular Minister.

1915

President Woodrow Wilson orders the U.S. Marines to occupy Haiti and establish control over customs-houses and port authorities. The Haitian National Guard is created by the occupying Americans. The Marines force peasants into corvée labor building roads. Peasant resistance to the occupiers grows under the leadership of Charlemagne Peralt, who is betrayed and assassinated by Marines in 1919.

http://www.dolphin.upenn.edu/dhsa/history.html

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

[dimbear]

12. Haiti isn't the best example of a failed Christian country.

Although Haiti is ostensibly mostly Catholic, it is at least as faithful to Voodoo. For a prime example of a failed Christian country, just look south of here to Mexico and beyond there to Guatemala.

[WolverineDG]

14. Ever read the Mexican Constitution?

No, from you statement. The Constitution specifically took away the right of the Church to own property (the Church "owns" the buildings, but not the land). There are other provisions in the Constitution that have dealt with taking (some) of the power of the church, including a requirement that the only marriages recognized by the government take place in a civil ceremony in a government office. If the parties want to have a church wedding, fine, but only the civil ceremony counts & it has to be done first.

Mexico also has had laws on the books for a long time recognizing divorce & abortion, way before the US did. The problems in that country aren't because of the Church, but because of corruption & racism.

dg

[ZombieHorde]

17. An example of Christians who are more ethical than myself. nt