Debunking Agnosticism – Why Most Self-Identified Agnostics Are Anything But

[Zadoc]

Debunking Agnosticism – Why Most Self-Identified Agnostics Are Anything But

Check it out. It's important for atheists to realize who and what they are, and no longer hide behind the moniker of agnosticism.

[lurky]

1. His argument is built on a faulty premise:

"Agnosticism is the belief that the existence of god and the non-existence of god are equally likely in probability. "

This is utterly false. He goes on to "debunk" agnostics because they don't give equal weight to all beliefs.

A better definition of agnosticism can be found on dictionary.com: "An intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge."

This is what makes me an agnostic: I know that I cannot discern the true metaphysical nature of the universe. However, I'm pretty sure the universe isn't ruled by magical superbeings who are going to smite us for masturbating.

Maybe he should have checked the dictionary before he wrote the article. :shrug:

[Skittles]

2. Agnostic generally means they don't give a shit one way or the other

[hlthe2b]

3. Unknown and unknowable...

Agnostics maintain that the existence of God is unknown and unknowable.

That is hardly the same as atheism, whose proponents have resolved for themselves that there is no such thing as God.

Perhaps those whose beliefs fall on the opposite side of the spectrum should stop trying to define what it is that OTHERS think. :eyes:

[Demeter]

13. In Other Words: I Don't Know, and I Don't Care

just about covers everything except the disbelief that anyone would buy into the fairy tales.

[DeltaLitProf]

4. Somehow I dont think a guy who writes so ungrammatically and stupidly

. . . knows a single good argument that would be of interest to agnostics. I quote:

"Agnostics don’t exist. The idea of an informed an intelligent person not being able to determine if they do or do not believe in the existence of a god or gods is incredulous at best."

Here we have a typo, a noun-pronoun agreement error and the wrong use of "incredulous." Three strikes and he's out.

[Terry in Austin]

5. Tip: any piece that says it's "debunking"...

It's like "Agnostics: Threat or Menace?"

Or maybe "Fair and Balanced."

Puh-leeeeze!

[Sherman A1]

6. I believe you have

debunked debunking!

[MrModerate]

7. Just because I'm an atheist . . .

By my definition, not the author's (or Dawkins' for that matter) how come I suddenly have the responsibility thrust upon me to ensure that no imprecision in the definition of atheism/agnosticism is ever uttered?

If I wanted that sort of nonsense, I'd become a believer and go around nagging people about the consistency of their beliefs and behaviors.

I look at it this way: I happen to be sure there's no god because there's not a scintilla of evidence suggesting there is one (or multiples thereof). Can I prove a negative? No, but so what? If you happen to believe (or even entertain the possibility) that's your lookout. I'll think you're a tad foolish, but you probably don't care about my opinion.

And that's the core of atheism: I don't care about god(s), because there aren't any.

"Atheism means never having to say you give a shit."

[Zadoc]

8. The Poverty of Agnosticism

The robust Muscular Christian haranguing us from the pulpit of
my old school chapel admitted a sneaking regard for atheists. They
at least had the courage of their misguided convictions. What this
preacher couldn't stand was agnostics: namby-pamby, mushy pap,
weak-tea, weedy, pallid fence-sitters. He was partly right, but for
wholly the wrong reason. In the same vein, according to Quentin
de la Bedoyere, the Catholic historian Hugh Ross Williamson
'respected the committed religious believer and also the committed
atheist. He reserved his contempt for the wishy-washy boneless
mediocrities who flapped around in the middle.' - Richard Dawkins

[DerekG]

16. Oh, I know why guys like Williamson preferred atheists

They want combatants in their precious cosmology, and atheists are usually all too eager to play the part.

Guess what? I'm an agnostic. Watch me shrug my shoulders.

[rug]

9. And why is that important?

[rrneck]

10. Yet another effort

to make the fat kids and the nerds feel like shit when we're choosing sides for the softball game.

[DeSwiss]

11. What a terribly constructed strawman!

The Rev. Bobby sez:

"Agnosticism is the belief that the existence of god and the non-existence of god are equally likely in probability. In other words, evolution and the big bang are equally as plausible as creation and magic sky pixies."

While the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism">Wiki sez:

"Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable."

- I side with the Wiki's definition. Oh, and agnostics? Make up yer minds already!!!

[Odin2005]

12. Most Agnostics ARE Atheists.

[skepticscott]

14. Ask any self-identifying agnostic

why they are "agnostic" about god, but not about Santa Claus. You'll get some very amusing reactions and responses.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. "'God'? Please define 'god'" might well be the reaction

There are specific claims made about Santa Claus, that are easy to say "I don't believe them" about. Similarly, one can easily say the claims made about the Christian, Islamic etc. gods are unbelievable. However, being agnostic about the existence, in this universe or in a 'meta-universe', of one or more entities that have had some influence on this universe in a way beyond the capabilities of humanity can still be quite possible, and you can easily call those possible entities 'gods'.

[peopleb4money]

18. Santa Clause is a fat man who delivers presents to children, and God...

is a concept that has vastly different interpretations. Some have the simple, neolithic view that a god is like a human being, but much more powerful, and punishes lowly humans for not worshiping him enough. Other's see God as a force that binds all life together with the universe. Some see God as a metaphysical entity that exists at some higher dimension of reality that humans are unaware of, just as atoms are unaware that they're apart of a greater reality known as a rock to us, Santa Clause isn't really a fair analogy, other than for some of the more unsophisticated views of what God is.Not all people believe that God directly rewards them for good behaviour. Some people believe that knowledge of a binding force or commonality, what they see as knowledge of God, opens them up to be more empathetic. There's no reward at all. They do good unto others, because they know that other people are just like them, and they feel that that knowledge came from what they term to be "god".

[skepticscott]

19. So why do you call the view of god

that is shared by the vast majority of believers "unsophisticated"? What right do you have, what wisdom do you have, to make that distinction? Do you consider their beliefs and their faith to be lacking or inferior in some way, while your view of god somehow qualifies as more "sophisticated"? Why do so many "liberal" and "progressive" religionists take that stance, other than simply trying to morph the concept of "god" into something largely unrecognizable to most churchgoers, but (they hope) immune to criticism or critical examination?

[peopleb4money]

17. Agnostics are just people who say they don't know one way or the other...

...and I think its a valid position. I don't think they're just atheists too afraid to admit their atheism. That might be the case with some people, but I wouldn't assume that's most or all of them. Those are just assumptions. The poll had nothing to do with exposing the deeper beliefs of most agnostics. Also, the belief in an afterlife isn't one in the same with the belief in a God. The concept of rebirth in Buddhism could be very compatible with platonic rationalism and doesn't necessarily involve a deity. They're not mutually inclusive ideas. ...and just because you reject the anthropomorphized god's of the major religions doesn't mean you're an atheist either. I think bickering over religion is stupid. Lets just agree on love for one another and other humanitarian principles. That's all I care about.

[skepticscott]

20. Well, if they are not convinced that their is a god

then they are no different from most atheists. If they are unconvinced now, but open to the possibility that some evidence might convince them in the future, then they are no different from most atheists.
Are all agnostics like a mule standing halfway between two piles of hay and simply unable to choose which way to go?