An odd church story from my extended family...

[MineralMan]

This was weird.

One of my wife's uncles, a man in his very late 70s, who suffers from diabetes and complete kidney failure is slipping in his mental faculties in recent months. He and his wife went to their regular ELCA church last Sunday and sat in their usual pew.

They've been attending this church for many years, now. It's a small church, and they know just about everyone in the congregation. At the moment that church has an interim pastor during a search for a new pastor. That's the background.

So, the service was happening. At some point, my wife's uncle lost his concentration and started reading the church bulletin to get himself reoriented to the place in the liturgy that was happening at the moment. Suddenly, the pastor marched down the center aisle, stopped at their row, handed my wife's uncle a Time magazine and loudly said, more or less, "Maybe you'll find this more interesting that the service," then marched back up to the pulpit. My wife's uncle hadn't made any noise or disturbance. He was just looking at the bulletin, trying to find his place in the liturgy.

Well, they didn't know what to do or think about what had happened, so they just sat there through the rest of the service. They told their son, who is in his 50s what had happened, and he blew his stack. He called this pastor and sent a letter to the church headquarters, demanding an explanation of what had happened.

The pastor called my wife's uncle and apologized profusely, and several members of the congregation also made contact with them.

I can't imagine what was going through this interim pastor's mind that caused him to publicly humiliate an old, slightly confused man. It's maybe the most bizarre thing I've ever heard of in a Lutheran Church.

I just wanted to tell the story. I imagine that this pastor is not going to be there next Sunday, but how strange this all was. Has anyone else experienced such a thing?

[NJmaverick]

1. I think in a situation like that a phone call simply doesn't cut it

[MineralMan]

3. I think the letter to the church governing body will have a strong

effect. I'm sure that interim pastor is gone already.

[NJmaverick]

13. Sorry, rereading what I wrote I didn't make myself clear

I think after what the Pastor did, he should have gotten into his car and made an inperson apology (followed by a public apology). It's possible the Pastor had some sort of extenuating circumstance, but he is not going to get much of an audiance if he doesn't put in the effort for a good apology.

[Mariana]

19. I agree this requires a PUBLIC apology to the congregation

in addition to the in-person apology to his victim. He didn't just humiliate this man, he surely made everyone present uncomfortable as well.

I'm wondering why no one saw fit to stand up and call the pastor out on the spot for his disgusting behavior. It's not as if they were going to disrupt the service - he'd already done that himself.

[MineralMan]

24. If I had been there, I certainly would have called him out, and

shamed him in public for his unchristian behavior.

[MadMaddie]

2. It's telling isn't it?

No respect for the elderly, no comprehension or compassion...I am not surprised.

[MineralMan]

6. But is so uncharacteristic of small ELCA churches.

I should add, I guess, that the son I mentioned is a gay man in a long-time relationship. But everyone in the church knows that and accepts both the son and his partner. I suppose that could have been in play somehow, but the ELCA is very accepting of GLBT people.

[MadMaddie]

8. I am sorry I wasn't specifically targeting the church

it's people in general, their is such a high level of disrespect and manners towards the elderly that it's disheartening.

[MineralMan]

11. Well, that's true enough. It was just an enormous surprise to them.

[peacebird]

4. it seems so much of society is becoming "in your face" confrontational now, sad that church is too..

[ingac70]

5. Good thing he didn't preach where I went to church!

Zzzzzzzzzz.

[MineralMan]

7. Indeed. I remember lots of old folks snoozing in the church I attended

as a kid. Seemed to be a popular way to worship. :rofl:

[JerseygirlCT]

16. One of our interims

while a very very nice lady, was an awful preacher. Oh my goodness, she went on. And on. And on. And usually ended up talking about the same thing. (You know that relative who tries to tell you the same story every time? And it always means you're going to be stuck there forever listening?).

I'd read the bulletin, I'd read anything... just to keep me from screaming and pulling my hair out during one of those long, meandering, seemingly pointless sermons!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

22. Honey, they have a name for that.

It's called "deep meditation". :rofl: :rofl:

[MineralMan]

26. Bless their hearts...

[jody]

9. Pastors are fallible just like anyone else. As Forrest Gump said "Shit Happens"! n/t

[MineralMan]

10. So, you think they should just shrug it off?

Hmm...

[jody]

12. Yes given what you report has already happened. IMO all religions and humanists have one common

denominator, the Golden Rule.

For those who profess to be Christians, they may find it hard to practice Jesus' teaching:

"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." (Mat 18:21-22)

I understand that instruction to apply to all Christians. :shrug:

[JerseygirlCT]

14. Wow. Cannot imagine

I'd guess there's some insecurity at work in the interim - feeling touchy maybe about having what is intended to be a temporary job? Or perhaps it's the other way around, and a personality like that has been found not to be suitable to being a pastor.

Whatever was going through his mind, I hope he's been sufficiently chastised and has learned a lesson. How embarrassing for the poor older man, though! I'm happy to read that several people from the congregation reached out to him - I would expect that sort of unity from the group.

I don't know... the two interims we've had have both been nice people... in their way. I could not see either, however, succeeding in a long-term position. We've always been very happy when the search process is over and we call a new rector!

[JuniperLea]

15. What you do for these...

the 'lesser' of my brothers, is what you do for me.

That creepy non-Christ-like preacher just blew it, big time. I was raised in a Fundy church... which left me Agnostic... for much the same sort of stupid, non-Christ-like shenanigans.

[rug]

17. Not quite, but I got an email.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=275x5297

[MineralMan]

27. Interesting.

[JerseygirlCT]

30. Whew... just read that one!

It's my impression that lately especially(in the last decade or so) there are many Catholic priests who simply cannot see beyond their own little circle. Since they can't have a family to care for, that becomes much less important. Since celebrating the mass is the high point of their week, it ought to carry exactly the same importance for everyone else.

Part of why I think the all male, celibate priesthood is central to the problems in the RCC. Certainly central to why I'm now and Episcopalian!

I cannot imagine any of my rectors taking a similar tack. I have seen them adding a reminder about the nursery downstairs during announcements so that those with noisy little ones know they have that option. But they're generally happy to see you, period.

[kestrel91316]

18. There's a pastor who no doubt reads only the parts of the bible that help

puff up that overinflated ego of his, and glosses over the rest. He needs to find another line of work. This one doesn't suit him.

[DeSwiss]

20. What I find most odd.....

...is the fact that the interim pastor himself, had a Time magazine in church. Was he looking for potential anecdotes to spice up his sermons? Or maybe perusing through it to gloat and laugh over the latest Catholic Church scandal??? Of course it may shed some light on why they are still looking for a permanent replacement for the post, instead of choosing him. Maybe that's why he was so ticked-off.


:shrug: - Maybe he found out he lost out on getting the job permanently and he just took it out on the most vulnerable person he could find.

[ZombieHorde]

21. Either the pastor is an asshole or he is suffering from great stress over something else. nt

[Broke In Jersey]

23. There are people in all fields/professions whose ego outsize their duty n/t

[jeepnstein]

25. That's why he's an itinerant preacher...

I cannot imagine a preacher calling someone to task in that fashion. There's a way to do that sort of thing and it's done that way to avoid the kind of conflict your temp just created. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018&version=NIV">Matthew 18:15-19 is one of the most important bits on Church governance there is.

The preacher owes the old man a public apology to go with the very public sin against him. I pray he's the better man and able to accept the apology in the spirit of Christian Love.

[MineralMan]

28. It occurred to me today that this interim pastor had a copy of

Time up on the pulpit. I'm betting he was annoyed by the inattention shown by some in the congregation and that he had planned to do something like this to make his point. It's too bad he chose an addled old man to use as an example. Actually, it would be a stupid move in any case, but choosing a man with moderate dementia was a big, big mistake.

Otherwise, I can't imagine why there'd be a copy of Time magazine on the pulpit in the first place. Bad minister -- No cookie in the basement after services for you!

[Enthusiast]

29. The interim pastor allowed his arrogance

to override his overconfident ass.