Dueling billboards..Christian vs Atheist. Christians attend atheist meeting in attempt to convert.

[madfloridian]

It started with the billboard put by a local atheist group.

Atheist group takes message to Lakeland via billboard


Staff photo by PETER MASA. Motorists along one of Lakeland's major thoroughfares are being greeted with a billboard asking a provocative question: "Don't believe in God?"

LAKELAND - Motorists along one of Lakeland's major thoroughfares are being greeted with a billboard asking a provocative question: "Don't believe in God?"

Then there's the answer: "You are not alone."

The billboard went up Sunday on eastbound Memorial Boulevard near Martin Luther King Jr. Avenue, making Lakeland the second Florida city to have a billboard sponsored by an atheist organization.

"We want other people in the secular community who are non-religious to become aware of us," he said.

The group wanted to keep focus on separation of church and state.

The group's main focus is keeping a separation of church and government. Curry said the billboard's message does not attack anyone or any religion.

A man came back from a trip, saw the sign by the atheist group....and he paid to put up his own Christian billboard.

'Believe in God!' is Lakeland Man's Answer to Atheists


CINDY SKOP | THE LEDGER In response to an atheist billboard Richard Geringswald has erected a pro-God billboard on Memorial Boulevard Friday November 27, 2009 in Lakeland, Florida. The billboard will be up for at least six months.

When Richard Geringswald returned from a short mission trip to Jamaica last month, he found a Ledger article sent by a friend about a billboard put up by an atheist group on Memorial Boulevard. The sign was across the street from First Baptist Institutional Church, whose pastor, the Rev. Alex Harper, is president of a small seminary where Geringswald occasionally teaches.

"I was totally ticked," Geringswald said.

....""Error conquers truth when good men stand by and do nothing," he said.

Within a week, he had rented space on a digital sign several miles away and placed an order for a permanent one closer to the atheists' sign.

Many of the local stories on TV were pretty fair, but a few showed people absolutely livid that the atheists had the right to do that. To their credit, most people who disagree at least acknowledged they had the right.

Christian groups decided to attend the meeting of the atheist group.

Atheists invited people to join them, and Christians are pushing back firmly.

It is the Central Florida billboard condemned by Christians. Now it is pulling people into a big debate over God in Lakeland. Atheists invited people to join them, and Christians are pushing back firmly. It was supposed to be a meeting for the Atheists of Florida to recruit more members, but it turned into a debate with Christians about whether or not God exists.

"When I realize there are some people who think that God does not exist, this is just unbelievable to me," said Dr. Byron George, a local pastor.

The Atheists of Florida hosted a forum at the Lakeland Public Library. Pastor Byron George told atheists to be open to a revelation. Ellen Bath Wachs says, "Christians are disrespectful when they cannot accept the belief of atheists, that there is no God."

She says, "We didn't come here to get preached at, that's our whole point. He's absolutely preaching."

Others went to the meeting because of the bill board. Christians asked questions of the group. One was.. "Who created the world if God did not?"

There is a video at the last link.

[sakabatou]

1. Hey Dr. George...

Your ignorance is showing.

[struggle4progress]

167. Billboard laws eliminate stupid shit like this

[ZombieHorde]

189. What would a billboard law do specifically?

[struggle4progress]

191. Prohibit billboards.

Op-Ed Contributor
Lady Bird’s Lost Legacy
By LAWRENCE WRIGHT
Published: July 20, 2007
... Four states have banned billboards entirely, but most of America has seen the proliferation of far larger signs than in the past — 1,200-square-foot behemoths that loom over the landscape atop 40-foot poles and which can be seen from miles away. The new trend is to turn them into huge digitalized screens that can be programmed to flash a dozen ads in the driver’s face as he passes by. “Nonconforming” billboards — those eyesores that were specifically banned under the act because they were grouped together or inappropriately located — have been allowed to remain in place decades after they should have been torn down. Nearly 70,000 still stand today. When acts of nature like Hurricane Katrina have knocked over some of these 40-year-old wooden billboards, the industry has fought hard to rebuild them, even having members of Congress slipping provisions into authorization bills for financing the Iraq war ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/opinion/20wright.html?_r=1

[ZombieHorde]

192. No doubt, that would but a damper on the "billboard wars." nt

[struggle4progress]

193. It would rid the country of countless eyesores, put up by junk-food vendors,

strip joints, cigarette distribution outlets, religious wackos, and so on

[ZombieHorde]

194. I agree, but strip joints and religious wackos probably have the best billboards. nt

[darkstar3]

195. And if wishes and buts were ponies and nuts,

we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.

Too many companies rely on the income generated by billboards for any law to pass. For the record, I agree with you, but I think I'll be rich and famous before this ever happens.

[Cleita]

2. Both groups are equally vile in their certainty that only their

side is right, IMHO.

[Walk away]

3. Those vile Atheists! Advocating the separation of church and state!

How dare they! And what could be more vile than pointing out that there are other Atheists in the world?

:sarcasm:

Edited to include sarcasm it case it isn't obvious
.

[defendandprotect]

113. Which was necessary because of Christian aggression. . . we might all recall . . . ????

[madfloridian]

4. I did not get that impression from the atheist group.

They were making the very religious fundamentalist area aware that there were other groups available to them.

[MadMaddie]

6. The difference is that the Atheist are not trying to slam their

beliefs on every American in every venue like the rabid right are.
The Atheist are not condeming gays because of atheism
Atheist are not using racism (illegal alians) to boost their ranks
Atheist are not using their beliefs to call war upon Muslim countries..what did Junior say? "This is a crusade"! He didn't make a mistake when he said that.

Atheist are not trying to muzzle other forms of religous or non-religious expression

The Atheist put up one sign on a highway
How many churches and crosses are on the same highway?

I am not Atheist but I am having a huge problem with organized religious organizations trying to politically take away or refuse rights to every American based on their skewed belief system.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

114. And we're now subsidizing "faith based" crap . . . !! Subsidies for Atheists????

I think this makes clear need for bullying by "god" believers . . .

What they fear is even a hint of real thought among believers . . . !!!

And that's all the atheist sign says -- "think!"

[MadMaddie]

162. Exactly!

[NMMNG]

7. An atheist group that says to other atheists, "you are not alone"

is just as vile as a religious group that demands everyone "believe"? Yeah, I get it. :eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. What's vile about the atheist billboard? Please answer. -nt

[Cleita]

10. I'm not talking specifically about the bill board but both the atheists and

religious people of many faiths, who are so smug in their beliefs, that they think only they are right and everyone who disagrees with them are wrong. I put up a post on the atheist board some years ago suggesting that even if you don't believe in the story of Christmas that you still can do some celebrating of the season anyway and I was viciously attacked because they said I was encouraging them to do pagan rituals or some such nonsense. I have friends who are New Agers and they are always being attacked when they put up some article of interest touching on psychic incidents or UFOs. They are treated very meanly by both sides. If you want to be an atheist, or a Christian or whatever you believe in, fine, but have some respect for the feelings and beliefs of people you think are deluded. I got involved in a discussion in the religion and theology forum because Catholics were being viciously attacked with accusations that I have listened to all my life from my Protestant relatives that aren't true. I mean the only thing they didn't bring up was that Catholics sacrifice babies and eat them. So I'm sorry. I have had some bad experiences with both sides. Once religious types and atheists can take a position that true scientists take, that position being that when new knowledge is revealed, it can blow to pieces pet theories and assumptions, then maybe I won't believe that about both factions.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. Well, I found THAT one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=263&topic_id=475

Of the couploe dozen people who replied, exactly ONE was somewhat less than friendly, and other posters disagreed with her.

Thin skin much?

[Cleita]

16. Whatever you say. I thought what was said about Catholic religious having

sex all the time was totally untrue. I lived in convents during the school year up until I was eighteen and I got really close to seeing the good, the bad and the ugly during that time and mostly it was boring, boring, and boring and way too much chapel. Nuns and priests hardly ever came together except for chapel. I can't believe these rumors persist because of a small bunch of bad clergy and the Bishops who covered up for them.

[defendandprotect]

117. So you're denying the sexual abuse of children by priests ... or saying

it was limited -- or not that newsworthy?

As for the convents, I doubt you were in any nun's room overnight -- so things may not

have been quite as "boring" all the time ... !!!

"Rumors" . . . ????

Further, the Italians make clear that this kind of sexual abuse of children and women

has been going on since the church began--!!

[Warpy]

212. And that one got a pizza delivery

whether for that thread or another.

However, the depiction of atheists who refuse to give tacit agreement to pushy believers as "vile" is a common one and is, well, vile itself.

We're here. We have a right to exist. Get used to it.

[Tobin S.]

17. Look into atheism a little more outside of internet chat rooms

You'll find that atheism is much more closely aligned with science than any religion. Something like 90% of scientists are atheists. Message boards are often contentious over matter much more trivial than religion and atheism. Check out a lounge flame war sometime. ;)

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tobin S.]

25. Were kind of disorganized for a cult, don't you think?

I mean generally you have to have a charismatic leader if you're going to have a cult. Then you have to believe in something: gods, goddesses, pyramids, space ships, I mean something. Usually cultists believe in an afterlife of some sort, too. Be it heaven or a cruise on a space ship or the astral plane.

Here's how my dictionary defines cult: 1. formal religious veneration: worship 2. a system of religious beliefsand ritual or those who practice it. 3a. enusiastic and usually temporary devotion to a person, idea, or thing b) a group of persons showing such devotion.

Atheism doesn't really fit.

[Cleita]

29. You already have that.

It's your own arrogance in believing that you have all the answers. Even men of science are not that arrogant.

[Tobin S.]

31. Where have I stated that I have all the answers? I don't even have a college degree.

[Cleita]

35. It isn't about you individually.

It's about the belief. To get to the belief that you reject anything that you can't see, hear, touch or blah, blah, blah and align yourself with those who do have a college degree and believe in the same thing shows that you have accepted a premise.

[Tobin S.]

37. The evidence points to athiesm. That's the facts. That's the way I think it is.

That's reality not faith.

[Cleita]

38. Fine. Don't proselytize.

That billboard was just that.

[Tobin S.]

41. Come, Cleita. Take my hand and join the dark side of the force.

Together we can rule the world! Mwahahahahaha!!

[Cleita]

43. I already do rule the world, my world anyway.

You try to do what you can in yours.

[Dr.Phool]

107. You've obviously never been to Florida.

Or most of the Deep South for that matter. That area is plastered almost wall to wall with billboards of aborted fetuses, bible verses, signs denouncing separation of church and state.

Amongst the religious saturation down here, the billboard just lets a few atheists know that they're not as isolated as it seems. How dare they.

[defendandprotect]

121. Obviously, that "proselytizing" isn't bothering the poster . . . only atheists letting others

know they exist bothers her -- !!!

[Lost-in-FL]

199. And how church can straighten gay people.

Really. Christians placed a billboard near a well known gay club.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

111. So THEY can and WE cannot. Nice.

I don't feel like staying at the back of the bus anymore, thank you.

[defendandprotect]

119. Excuse me . . . are you saying atheists don't have the riight to make their presence known???

A billboard announcing that atheists exist and that others who might feel intimidated

by the "god" conspiracy might like to discuss it with others of like mind is not

"proselytizing" --

Keep in mind, the Constitution separates Church & State . . . NOT atheists and State -- !!!

:eyes: :eyes:

[proteus_lives]

71. What evidence?

[EstimatedProphet]

198. Atheism is the absence of a belief

Just thought you should know that.

[JoeyT]

93. Nice.

"It's your own arrogance in believing that you have all the answers."
Quite possibly one of the most arrogant and bigoted statements I've seen in a while.
Doubly amusing since most atheists are agnostic atheists...You know, ones that lack belief because of a lack of evidence. Which is about as far from "believing you have all the answers." as is humanly possible.
But hey, you keep on beating that strawman if it makes you feel better.

[Dr.Phool]

103. Uh, hello.

We don't claim to have all the answers.

You're wrongly characterizing our lack of belief. It's a logical fallacy to state "There is no god", because it's impossible to prove a negative.

We see no credible evidence that a god exists. Where is the arrogance in that?

[defendandprotect]

122. It's impossible to prove either . . . that any "god/s" exist or don't exist . . .

On the other hand, I think we can quite clearly see a pro-"god" conspiracy and
what it does to people -- !!

IMO . . .

:evilgrin:



PS: And our Founders evidently could also see it --
They separated Church & State -- not Atheists and State -- !!!

[Marr]

104. Excuse me?

Religious people claim to have all the answers, not atheists. Ask a religious person and an atheist how the universe began and see which one admits that they don't know.

Saying you find religious claims to be unconvincing is not the same as saying that you have all the answers yourself.

[Starry Messenger]

26. Cults require coercion of some form.

That is a very odd view to take. All atheists I know are self-selecting. :shrug:

[Cleita]

30. I have been coerced by atheists.

"Oh, you really aren't going to go into that church and light a candle are you?"

Happened to me up in Alaska in an old historic church there. I wanted to do it out of respect not belief.

STFU!

[Starry Messenger]

34. But they didn't actually force you to BE an atheist did they?

It sounds like they were very rude, though.

[Cleita]

36. So far no one really can force you to be anything.

However, if we become a theocracy like Utah, all bets are off. However, the Mormons are losing their stranglehold over the job market in Utah so the state is opening up.

[defendandprotect]

124. Yes . . . a long period of coercion by "Christians" . . . not to mention Crusades . ..

and Witch Hunts --

[eppur_se_muova]

100. WOW, that was really harsh.

It required tremendous strength of character on your part to bear up to mild sarcasm of that sort.

[defendandprotect]

123. Americans have the right to question and challenge all beliefs, religion included . . .

What was so wrong with their question?

Meanwhile, do you recall the Crusades, at all?






PS: Let us know when Atheists are going door to door and taking away Bibles . . . !!!

Or when Atheists are getting "non-faith based" government subsidies for their organizations--!!??

:evilgrin:

[Silent3]

138. No! Not that! Not mild questioning spoken with a tone of amused skepticism!

Those cruel heartless bastards! :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

27. how is not believing in a supreme being a 'cult'...?

i'm an atheist- but i don't communicate with other atheists on the topic, i don't go to any type of atheist meetings(are there any?)
i simply believe that man created god in his own image, not the other way around.
how does that make me a member of a cult?

are people who don't believe that the greek gods exist on mt. olympus cultists as well?

[Cleita]

32. For the very reason that you have chosen another god the one that doesn't exist.

Please think about it. Mathematically negative numbers are just as powerful as positive ones, so you have chosen the absence of a god as to the presence of one. However, if you don't do all the above you aren't a true atheist. Atheists do have a club. One of them even cleans up a portion of interstate in my town. Their sign attests to it, so obviously there is a community.

[dysfunctional press]

51. you really need to think about it.

NOT having a god is the natural state of being- all throughout human history, gods have been created by humans, usually as a way to explain things that they didn't understand. as they grew to learn more things about the world around them, and information spread, a lot of the gods became obsolete and unnecessary.

'not believing' in a mythological beings is not 'a belief system' in itself.

[Cleita]

54. No. Really it is.

I believe in all gods as crazy as it seems because nobody has proved to me that they don't exist.

[dysfunctional press]

60. so- you believe in the abominable snowman, bigfoot, and little green men from mars?

reincarnation? heaven? hell? vishnu? zeus? poseiden? neptune?

honestly?

you believe in ANYTHING that nobody has proved to you 'doesn't' exist?

do you believe in the thetans of scientology fame?

has anyone proved to you that leprechauns don't exist?

[Cleita]

62. I have never discounted any of it.

Until it's disproved, we don't know. My late Irish husband thought Leprechauns existed as part of the Irish fairly mythology. Incidentally, they aren't very sweet or cute according to him. So now are you going to make fun of me? Really, I need to know. I know nothing of the recently man made religion of Hubbard, another cult.

[dysfunctional press]

64. thanks...that's very telling.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

i believe in the REAL. that which has been proven to exist.

believing in anything that hasn't been disproven is borderline insane.

[Cleita]

66. I'm happy I allowed you to laugh.

But your last remark about the borderline insane accusation shows that you are very nervous exchanging barbs with me.

btw Look after that problem with your foot.

[dysfunctional press]

68. i'm not nervous- just sad for you.

:shrug:

[Cleita]

70. then pray for me. n.t.

[dysfunctional press]

73. i don't pray- it's a complete waste of time...

and there's nobody to talk to.

i'll stick with feeling sorry for you.

[Cleita]

75. Okay.

I guess you don't know what prayer is. It's about thinking about someone. Since you are feeling sorry for me, you are thinking about me.

:rofl:

[dysfunctional press]

79. i was going by a real world definition of prayer:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Prayer
Main Entry: 1prayer
Pronunciation: \ˈprer\
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French priere, praiere, preiere, from Medieval Latin precaria, from Latin, feminine of precarius obtained by entreaty, from prec-, prex
Date: 14th century

1 a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought <said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words used in praying b : an earnest request or wish
2 : the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>
3 : a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers —often used in plural
4 : something prayed for
5 : a slight chance <haven't got a prayer>

.....
nothing in there at all about 'thinking about someone'.

it just gets sadder and sadder...

[Cleita]

80. Whatever.

I'm not into sad these days, so enjoy it if it's what you like. Do look after that left foot.

[dysfunctional press]

131. i don't enjoy the fact that there are such deluded souls out there....

that's the point. i do pity you.

[defendandprotect]

125. Prayer is an attempt to influence the fates . . .

And as Native Americans say: "The only real prayer is a search for wisdom" --

[Silent3]

140. Don't you have any concept of probability? Degree of likelihood?

There's a big difference (or should be!) between believing something is possible and believing in it. And possible comes in a lot of shades.

It's possible I'll flip a coin and and it will come up heads. It's possible I'll buy a lottery ticket and win $100,000,000.

I happen to think the existence of unicorns an leprechauns is vaguely possible, but more akin to a lottery than a coin toss. Possible, but extremely unlike.

One thing I don't believe is you, when you say that all it takes is for something not to be disproved for you to believe in it. I think you said that while badly trying to make a point about being "open minded", but backed yourself into a ridiculous rhetorical corner.

If you truly do believe -- not just "allow for some possibility, but believe -- anything that hasn't been disproved, then you truly would be insane. That is an utterly untenable position, and there's no way a person could get through day-to-day life thinking like that.

[rd_kent]

147. It is obvious by your posts that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

[darkstar3]

171. Your worshipping bills must be astronomical.

Tell me, in the last month, how many animals and virgins have you sacrificed? I'm amazed you have time to post your outrage here, shouldn't you be cleaning your vomitorium?

[eShirl]

112. "you have chosen another god the one that doesn't exist."

nonsense

[Starry Messenger]

143. Yes, that's where I threw up my hands and surrendered.

There's no going on with that logic.

[Walk away]

153. What a load of B.S. No wonder so many bright people are Atheists!

Seems like christians are mostly crooks and the poor schlocks that follow them.

[ima_sinnic]

110. lol! wtf?

that is just plain idiotic.

[Lorien]

83. That's like saying that someone feels "smug" because they don't believe in

unicorns. I don't believe in God or unicorns or Tarot cards, but I don't spend much time at all thinking about something I have no belief in. And I won't waste my time trying to convince others not to believe in the things I find illogical. Why would I?

[Cleita]

87. Because you are smarter than me.

However, about the Tarot cards, do get a reading from a real Tarot reader someday.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. Tarot???

OK. Lorien IS smarter than you.

[dysfunctional press]

132. it would appear that most people are.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Starry Messenger]

9. Um.

What's wrong with taking a stand against the status quo? Christians are hardly persecuted. Their social power in this country is vast. All the atheists wanted was a little space to come together and the religious couldn't even respect that and invaded them there. I don't go into churches and start asking "Why do you believe this shit?"

[NMMNG]

11. Don't you know?

Atheists are persecuting Christians by taking a stand against the status quo, and by wanting a little space to come together. Any time you say something like "I don't believe" or acknowledge the existence of a non-Christian faith/holiday you're persecuting Christians. Or didn't you get the memo?

[Starry Messenger]

18. That will always baffle me.

They just can't be very secure in their faith to need to go after total strangers like that. I know lots of nice people who are religious who don't act like berzerker vikings if faced with an unbeliever.

[dysfunctional press]

19. if someone doesn't believe in the gods of greek mythology- does that make them vile..?

or if someone doesn't believe in the various hindu gods- does that make them vile...?

[Cleita]

21. No. What makes them vile is laughing, deriding and maybe even

persecuting those who do believe in those things and we know that non-believers in religious systems that are not theirs are really shit heads when it comes to this. May I refer you to the christian Churches in the Dark and Middle Ages and more recently the atheistic communists of the Soviet Bloc of the last century who in turn persecuted the Christians.

[dysfunctional press]

24. and how is a billboard 'persecution'?

that's ridiculous on it's face.

and if christians in the soviet union were 'persecuted', it was by the government, not the rank-and-file atheists.

in the story from the op- the only shitheads seem to be the christians that went to the atheist gathering to preach and convert.

[Cleita]

28. Whether it was intentional or not, the billboard was an open challenge

to the fundies. They reacted. That's simply what happened. If atheists are so secure in their beliefs, why are they proselytizing? That's how that billboard came across to me. If fundies are so secure in their beliefs, why do they care? I have my own spiritual beliefs. I don't belong to any group that shares my beliefs. I don't invite anyone to ask me about my beliefs. I don't tell anyone about them. I don't proselytize, yet I have found people whom I share beliefs with, when it comes out in conversation. I don't actively seek to bring people over to my side and most have their own beliefs that aren't mine. I don't need a billboard or an ad of any sort to bring people over to my side. So why are the atheists upset?

[girl gone mad]

45. Saying to other atheists "you are not alone" is an open challenge?

I don't think so. Saying "Hey Christians, your god does not exist, you dopes!" would be an open challenge.

[Cleita]

46. It's exactly the same thing.

Think about it.

[wuushew]

47. I disagree

please explain your line of thought in greater detail.

[Cleita]

48. I will try. I sometimes suffer from a lack of articulateness.

Okay, you are Bubba coming home from Church after a good brainwashing session with the local grifter pastor. (Yes, I'm not fond of them.) Then the billboard comes up and it tells you that every bit of thought, not to mention money, that you have invested in the spiritual side of yourself is wrong. What if there was no billboard and you just came to that conclusion yourself. Many have, with no help from ads. Of course Pastor Grifter sees the billboard and is threatened, so starts the battle that wasn't necessary. Pastor Griftor is gonna win this one because he didn't start it.

[defendandprotect]

128. Separation of Church & State will win this one . . . if we are all lucky -- !!

Amazing that you see ONE billboard as a "challenge" to all of organized patriarchal religion --

but you evidently don't object to the constant advertising by religions --

nor their interference in government affairs -- i.e., campaigning with tax exempt dollars

against the ERA and homosexual rights???

Among other things --

And also the fact that you're now subsidizing their "faith-based" religions????

None of that bothers you?

:eyes:

[NMMNG]

136. IOW

We need to hide who we are and never say a word lest our very existence upset the whackjobs? It's our fault if they get offended by the fact that we exist and don't believe as they do?

Screw that. Next thing you know you'll be telling all the LGBT people to get back in their closets because it's all their faults that the fundaloons get upset and start screaming for anti-gay legislation. :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

50. please explain how that is, exactly...

because i certainly don't see it as such, in any way shape, or form.

[JoeyT]

95. I understand her perfectly.

She's telling you your very existence is offensive to good people everywhere.
Between bouts of ferociously savaging any straw man she can get ahold of.
Apparently we're arrogant too, or something.

[Dorian Gray]

106. I don't think it is myself

(and I am Christian). I have no problem with the atheist billboard.

[ElboRuum]

115. Having lurked this thread long enough,

It is NOT the same thing Cleita, not by a stretch. Coming together with people of like minds is not the same as opposing people of different viewpoints.

[defendandprotect]

126. Think about the fact that Americans have the right to challenge anything -- even religion . .

That's democracy --

We also have the right to laugh at religion -- and I think we should do it more often!

[dysfunctional press]

49. they weren't prostelytizing- they were reaching out to other athiests.

theists generally congregate in buildings that are identified by their particular flavour of belief- but atheists don't have any such social network. in many places, the theists are becoming or already are, an organized political force, imposing their values/belief system on the politics of everyone. how are atheists suppose to organize themselves into a counter force if they aren't able to identify/reach out to others?
they weren't trying to 'bring people over to their side', they were trying to unite like-minded people who have no church-like social organization. you really can't see that?

[Cleita]

52. Actually you do. Atheism as pointed out in other posts is prevalent on

college campuses. I'm not necessarily talking about scientists who are only a part of the demographic. I used to work at UCLA so I do know what I am talking about. You guys are pretty well organized. Was it only one millionaire who bought that billboard? I wish I could get my cult going, which is for single payer universal health care, and buy a billboard!

[dysfunctional press]

55. i don't know any other athiests in my area...and there are no regular 'services' held.

there are also a lot of church groups prevalent on college campuses.
and political groups.
and art groups.
and music groups.

college campuses are not representative of society at large- they are a group of people who are of mostly the same age and socioeconomic class, in a rather small community and geographic area.

[Cleita]

57. There is no reason for us to agree to disagree anymore.

Silly, what a stupid billboard can do. Oh btw on college campuses the students aren't the major age demographic. There are all the Deans, Administrators, Professors and workers just to make it short.

[dysfunctional press]

61. "on college campuses the students aren't the major age demographic."

that shows reinforces EXACTLY what level of mentality you must hold.

[Cleita]

63. Finally got to where I was going.

You can't prove what you are saying so now you are going to insult me. It never fails. My mentality level can't be discerned by you or anyone over the internet. Try to look at some studies as to what the makeup of a university campus is. Some, like UCLA, are larger than small cities and just as diversified.

[dysfunctional press]

65. no, large universities aren't 'just as diversified' as small cities.

there may be a wide range of ethnicities and perhaps some range of economic diversity- but that's mostly about it.

and yes, the students make up the MAJOR age demographic on almost EVERY college campus. just pick a school and look at the numbers.

[Cleita]

67. I worked for years for the University of California before Reagan ruined it.

I'm pretty familiar with it.

[dysfunctional press]

69. apparently not with the present-day then.

time marches on.
things change. (and a lot of times, it's people's perceptions about their past experiences. hint, hint...)

[JNelson6563]

127. I think you are much mistaken.

After reading many of your posts in this thread I have to say you are in over your head my dear. You have pretty thin skin and you do not seem to understand the meaning of some of the words you use.

You seem to be painting with a very broad brush, the sort you seem to abhor when applied to Catholicism.

Julie

[defendandprotect]

129. You're saying that atheism is a religion, without "gods" and without a belief system . . .???

Don't know if it's still going on in Jr. High Schools and High Schools, but for a decade

and more "Young Life" -- which was a hidden religious cult -- was infiltrating public schools.

That's simply more evidence of the fact that religion is threatened when they can't

"prosletyze" to youth -- and desperate to attach themselves to public schools and to get some

acknowledgment and authorization from that attachment.

Otherwise, it looks like what it really is -- a personal belief system that many are dropping!

The entire right wing religious movement here in America has been financed by wealthy Repugs --

The GOP gave start up funding for the Christian Coalition ---

And Scaife funded Dobson's organization -- other wealthy Repugs funded Bauer.

Exactly the way they created all their right wing think tanks -- all fake.


Further, US/CIA also created the violent Islamic teachings and moved them into the Middle East!!!

It's all a sham --

[rd_kent]

177. So atheism is a cult? Really?

Please explain.

[JoeyT]

94. Uh huh.

"You mean atheists need to shut up and stop saying you don't believe in things in public! Only I'm special enough to be allowed to state my beliefs in public!"
No, that's not arrogant in the least.

[Dr.Phool]

108. You win the cigar!

[rd_kent]

176. By your rationale, then every church billboard is an open challenge.

For fucks sake, what is so hard to understand? Atheists don't have a "belief", atheists don't proselytize.

[Cleita]

168. You should change your name to "straw man".

You keep pulling them out of people's posts and putting words in their mouths.

[darkstar3]

170. You're the one who brought up persecution in your own post,

and now you're claiming "straw man" because people are showing you how wrong that statement was?

[Cleita]

172. I said nothing about this billboard persecuting anyone.

That was the straw man. Picking one word out of context and then making up a statement about it out of whole cloth is what was done.

[darkstar3]

173. Yes, but the billboard is what this entire thread is about,

and it's what got you all up in a tizzy to begin with, so you can see how someone might make that mistake in context.

Of course, looking at your post now and thinking about how it is supposed to apply to atheists in general rather than just to the billboard, you still don't come off looking so good.

[Cleita]

175. You really don't see the illogic in your reasoning, do you? n/t

[darkstar3]

178. After everything you've vomited into this thread,

I think you should be very careful with the word "illogic", especially considering it's not actually a word.

[Lost-in-FL]

205. Atheist have been upgraded from angry to vile?

[Feron]

33. I think that this is appropriate:

[Cleita]

40. Your cartoon is righter than you think.

The fact that one side or the other has to bash each other only points to the historic battles and wars waged on both sides. The only religion that I know that doesn't go to war is Buddhism. But the Buddhists are open to new ideas and new science. They are not dogmatic. They don't really fight that much or try to bring the "good news" to unwilling converts.

[NuttyFluffers]

101. actually Buddhists did go to wars & all that bad juju, quite a good many of them.

but all belief (which includes atheism) -- which i do believe is a good thing for the human spirit as long as it is not taken into the realm of fanaticism -- has a broad range of adherents, many of whom do seriously questionable things when it comes to terms of humanity and ethics. just an FYI.

and thanks for bringing up this question, whether every group of believers can act like petulant children. often times when people finger point they forget the three fingers pointing back at them. all groups can be obnoxious, and in the end it doesn't matter who is right or wrong if you want to regain harmony.

best of luck; may you not be eaten alive too much. maybe someone might even tone things down and attempt to listen for a change, but we can't have too much faith in the miraculous, now can we?

;)

:hug:

[defendandprotect]

130. That looked like "self-defense" to me . . . you seem to miss where the attack comes from . . .

And that the atheist is merely breaking the cross over his knee --!!


Evidently you see the Atheist billboard as an "attack" . . .

yet nothing about Catholic's attack on "pagans, heretics, Jews" evidently offends you!

Or their modern day continuance of attacks on females -- homosexuals -- ???

Or the Catholic Bishops attempted and successful interference with health care reform --

and efforts to try to bar not only their own members -- but everyone -- from the right to

contraception and abortion!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. Basically, you're saying people who don't believe like you do are vile.

But the irony's going completely over your head.

[Cleita]

56. No.

Dear fructose, there is no irony. I know that your function is to be a jerk and I accept that. I never said that people who believe like me are vile because no one knows what I believe in. There is the irony. Do you understand?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. That wasn't a question. Yes.

"I never said that people who believe like me are vile because no one knows what I believe in."

That's right, you said people who believed differently than you are vile. These people have beliefs. You don't like those beliefs. You think those beliefs are vile.

It's wonderfully ironic.

[Cleita]

74. I frankly don't give a crap about anyone's beliefs as long as

they don't involve me. Atheists beliefs and Xtian fundy beliefs have impacted my life at various time, so therefore, they are vile IMHO. The IMHO seems to have escaped everyone who wants to spar with me. It is IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. These people's beliefs don't impact you.

You disrespect their beliefs because you don't like them, and there's nothing humble about your opinion.

[Cleita]

78. Isn't this the atheist and christian belief to disrespect the beliefs that aren't

like theirs. Do not project on me. You need some chamomile lotion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. And that's exactly what you're doing to them.

Hence the irony.

[Cleita]

85. Hmm. Interesting.

I haven't paid much attention to you. I will in the future. Your posts have always seemed combative and disruptive so I passed by, but maybe we can spar again.

[NuttyFluffers]

102. you make the flaw that criticizing the behavior is mocking the belief. hence you are the irony here.

but otherwise very good. we should always reflect when we offer our judgment of others. holding people to task, even in a flawed argument, is constructive to return to this principle of reflection. please continue.

:hug:

[ZombieHorde]

190. "because no one knows what I believe in"

We know you believe in medicare for all.

[JoeyT]

97. And arrogant!

Don't forget arrogant. ;)

[hyphenate]

82. I'm only judging by the snips here

but it doesn't look like the Atheists are saying they don't believe the other side is in error, but are trying to show those who aren't sure of their faith that there are other people out there who don't believe in the Xtian faith.

I'll do further investigation, but as an atheist myself, I know only too well that the majority of people in the US are not atheists, but that all of us have a right to believe as we wish to. I find the religious right (NOT mainstream Xtians) repugnant and overbearing, and would like to see their extremism disappear forever, but they ain't gonna go away, and that's the problem--many of them speak as though they are speaking for ALL Xtians because mainstream Xtians aren't speaking up.

Almost all other religious groups in the US are afraid of declaring their religious beliefs because of these extremists, and that's sad that while we have the right to believe as we wish to believe, in practice it's a great deal more complicated to talk about it.

[defendandprotect]

133. The religious right in America is a creation of the GOP and wealthy Repugs . . .

just as their think tanks and their "teabaggers" were crated --

GOP gave start up funding for the Christian Coalition in the 1980's --

Scaife financed Dobson's group - and other wealthy Repugs financed Bauer's --

Certainly someone is also keeping Terry Randall out there and I don't think it's

Catholic members who ignore the church in regard to contraception --

and Catholic women have just as many abortions as any other women.

Finanacing for aggressive right wing religion is coming not from grassroots but from

wealthy elites who have a need to keep the war on women and reproduction going in their

own self-interests.



PS: US/CIA also created the VIOLENT Islamic teachings and created the Fundi movement in ME.

[onehandle]

89. Yep. nt

[rd_kent]

146. That just goes to show you really do NOT know atheists.

[Extend a Hand]

150. religious tolerance

[ZombieHorde]

187. People who are certain their toasters are demonic portals or are not demonic portals are also vile.

People who are certain the movies The Incredible Hulk or American Werewolf in London are true stories or are not true stories are disgusting poop mongers.

Those who are certain the color of their pants have a direct effect or do not have a direct effect on alien mortality rates make me want to PUKE!!!!! Just thinking about these types of people turns my stomach.

[Taverner]

213. BS - The Atheists aren't trying to convert, just support other Atheists

The Xians, however, want to CONVERT

[dmallind]

234. Really

One sign merely says that you are not alone if you don't believe in God. Absolute incontestable truth, as more than opne nonbeliever in God exists.

One sign says that you are never alone with God, which is only true if the unverifiable and frankly undefinable question of God's existence is taken as a tautology.

But both are in your mind equal in their certainty? Lord have mercy.........

[NMMNG]

5. I'll never understand some believers

What is it about them that they can't just let others be? I was a Christian for 20 years and never once cared if someone else was of a different faith, or of no faith at all. I never felt compelled to try to push my religion off on anybody else. What is it with people like Byron George that they can't resist shoving their stuff down everyone else's throats?

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. You want to know the real reason?

What is it about them that they can't just let others be? -- What is it with people like Byron George that they can't resist shoving their stuff down everyone else's throats?

Because the existence of non-believers is a serious threat. Belief in God (or "god") requires fellow believers in order to validate the belief. If I and only I was convinced there was an invisible, magical pink unicorn living in my garage, the rest of the population would rightly think of me as deluded. However, if I can convince millions of others of Pinky's existence, I become mainstream. In order to maintain that mainstream thinking, it would be necessary for me and all the other Pinky followers to belittle and/or squash any and all of those that think differently.

Atheists and non-believers are a threat to the faithful precisely because they have the temerity to call bullshit on the pink unicorns of the world. For those that hold strongly to logically indefensible positions, it is required of them to try and present the opposition as illogical.

[ElboRuum]

120. Actually, it's not even that complicated.

Religion is the oldest and most successful power structure that exists. A few elites at the top and scads of fearful and devoted followers and supplicants below maintaining that authority in the name of an even higher power. Power, wealth, fame, and fortune for a few gotten on the backs of those too scared of their own mortality to see their everything in their life of any worth being deferred for the promise of a life after.

[jaded_old_cynic]

241. "What he said."

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

44. Well said.

I agree with you.

[defendandprotect]

134. Think the hierarchy of organized patriarchal religions pushed for

members returning to effort to "convert" others -- those beliefs had been dropped

in more recent times.

Obviously, they lost a great deal when prayer was tossed out from public schools.

It was their way of attaching themselves to government -- gaining authorization and

acknowledgment from public schools.

No more!!

:evilgrin:

[Ikonoklast]

13. *One* billboard shakes their very foundation of faith.

Must be a shallow belief system that cannot withstand the least bit of questioning.

[Lorien]

86. That's certainly at the heart of it.

Deep down I think many of the people really don't believe, and that makes the world a very scary place for them.

[Odin2005]

15. Yes, god forbid us Atheists have a voice! that would be un-American!

:sarcasm:

[Cleita]

23. I'm more offended that there are still places in this country

that billboards are allowed. They are a real blight on the landscape.

[Silent3]

141. Your comment is very offensive to billboard producers.

Haven't you stopped to imagine the hurt you could be causing when a billboard owner reads your words of disapproval and condemnation?

Isn't there room in your little world for people who believe in the power and majesty of the billboard?

Why are you SMUG about billboards being a bad thing? One person's blight is another's delight!

Why are you being so ARROGANT and VILE? Why can't you just be content to think billboards are bad quietly to yourself?

[RainDog]

22. who created the world if god didn't? are these people living in the 17th c?

I mean, honestly, why are these people who are so fucking stupid allowed to have any say on any issue in public life?

who cares what they think. the whole basis for their belief system is ignorance.

[girl gone mad]

39. Who created God?

"Who created the world if God did not?"

If God created the world, who created God?

[Cleita]

42. The human mind. My cat worships no gods but he doesn't get into my

face about what mental fancies I might have.

[RedCloud]

58. The third dimension springing forth from parts unknown is too mind boggling

But everywhere you look you see chaos reigns supreme.

And for the egocentric humans: How many sperms must die just to produce one of you? Sound like a plan or absolute chaos?

[Cleita]

59. LOL!

:applause:

[girl gone mad]

92. Yes, not a very "intelligent design"..

that's for sure.

[alittlelark]

76. 1 thing all 'ppl of faith' can agree on is that atheists are evil.

They may vehemently oppose people of other faiths. They may have wars with them over whose god is the TRUE god..... It's god vs god vs gods....

But atheists make them question their faith with simple statements and questions - creating cognitive dissonance.

Atheists are the biggest threat to all religious views and doctrines.

[girl gone mad]

96. I'm reminded of the time when I was a kid and the police came to our church..

to warn us about some Satanic vandalism and small animal sacrifice that had been reported in the local community. The officers comforted and reassured parents whose children might be involved in Satanic vandalism and animal sacrifice by telling us "If your kid is in a Satanic cult, at least you know he's not an atheist."

[janx]

84. I don't like this either/or attitude. n/t

[madfloridian]

88. The atheist billboard advertised their meeting.

I don't see an either/or attitude there.

[onehandle]

139. It doesn't mention a meeting.

The news story was not pinned up there with it.

It's just another organized group preaching to me and I don't that.

[onehandle]

90. I don't want to be preached to by either group. That's exactly what they are doing.

Both groups want to rub it in the other's face.

To Hell with them.

Maybe.

[defendandprotect]

135. "Both groups" isn't the subject of our Separation of Church & State . . .

ONLY "CHURCH" is separated from State --

not Atheism ...

Our founders recognized the threat of organized patriarchal religion and their "god"

to government --

Separation of Church & State gives you your highest privilege in a democracy --

your right to free thought, free conscience and self-determination --

[onehandle]

137. Atheism is a religion.

And in this case it's an organized religion.

Non-belief is an 'ultimate truth.'

I don't want to be preached at by anyone.

[defendandprotect]

144. Atheism is not a "religion" . . . NOT separated from State as "CHURCH" is . . .

The right wing invented that concept in self-defense against questions and challenges --

Organized patriarchal religion isn't only "religion" it's patriarchy's underpinning --

Which is why it is so dangerous to the right when it's under attack --

and it's why the GOP gave start up funding to the Christian Coalition in the 1980's trying

to prop up and reassert authoritarian privilege for patriarchal structures --

The right wing religious movement in America is as fake as their "tea baggers' and right wing

think tanks.

There is no "CHURCH" involved in Atheism -- there is no steeple --

there are only people --

who question and challenge those who believe in "CHURCH" . . .



"A belief system is the end - not the beginning -- of all wisdom --"

religion -

What Religion are You?

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom

9. get religion, Informal.

a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.

b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

[onehandle]

157. Non-belief is just another 'ultimate truth,' and thus a belief.

Once you believe, you are practicing.

No church, no steeple, no God.

No organization of any kind.

Except wait... An organization put up that billboard.

It's a religion and I roll my eyes at any religion that preaches to me from the roadside.

[ima_sinnic]

163. do you preach to people not to believe in unicorns?

sheesh, the "religion of nonbelieving" covers such a vast territory, anyone would have to be a fool to join it--all that "preaching" would take a lifetime!

sheeit, gotta go, my neighbor's here, and a black cat just crossed her path. She believes in that stuff--sheesh, my work never ends!

leprechauns
Santa Claus
bigfoot
Loch Ness Monster
number 13 anything
walking under a ladder
crossing your eyes --> permanently crossed
masturbating --> hairy palms
etc. ad nauseum

on edit: forgot to add my main point: to "preach" about something, ya gotta CARE about it. I couldn't care less about unicorns, Santa Claus, or some "god," and I certainly don't give a rat's ass about what you "believe in" or don't, and neither does any atheist in the world.

[onehandle]

164. Thank you for making my point.

Nobody should give a rat's ass about other's beliefs.

[ima_sinnic]

166. that's only 1 of yr points--you implied that the billboard was "preaching" to you

and wanted you to "convert" to atheism.

The billboard was not aimed at you, because it is specifically addressing people who already don't believe in god--"Don't believe in God?" has no "should" or any other qualifier attached to it. It's saying, "If you don't believe in God, other people feel the same way." How is that "saying" anything at all to YOU?

[onehandle]

202. No, no. Your conclusion was correct. And I said nothing about it wanting to convert me.

And maybe it was preaching to me. Maybe I'm an Atheist.

Who doesn't push his beliefs on others...

On a roadside billboard...

Like a religion.

[darkstar3]

214. Please explain to me

how this billboard pushes any belief or lack thereof onto others. It says "You are not alone." That's all. It's a completely innocuous message designed to help people who are normally a very small minority realize that there are others out there like them.

Now if it had said "Don't believe in God, because it makes you stupid," that would be proselytizing, and badly at that. As it is, it doesn't qualify, and the reaction it received by the Christians in the area smacks of incredible intolerance.

[onehandle]

221. 'Don't believe in God, because it makes you stupid'

That's what it would say if written by the denizens of this forum.

Anyway...

Just because it's not heavy handed, doesn't mean it's not preaching.

I've seen a lot of Christian billboards with warm, inviting messages. They make me roll my eyes too.

That's how religions like Christianity and Atheism work. Wave you in with a smile and then the donation plate comes out.

No thanks.

Oh, here's where you can donate to the non-profit religious organization mentioned on the billboard:

http://atheistsofflorida.org/donate.html

Hey, they have a building fund.

So they are going to have a church.

Interesting.

[darkstar3]

224. "You whine like a mule!"

You say that if the denizens of this board wrote a billboard, it would be hateful. This is a claim you can't prove, and using it as justification for your pissiness over a perfectly innocent billboard is dishonest as hell.

Just like your baseless insistence that atheism is a religion. "Oh they're collecting money!" Yes, that's exacty like a religion...:eyes:

Come back when you understand the difference between an organization (which atheists don't nearly qualify as, yet) and a religion.

[defendandprotect]

179. Well, I guess anyone who puts up a billboard or is organized is a CHURCH????

Is that what you're saying?

[onehandle]

201. No, I'm saying that Atheism is a religion. nt

[rd_kent]

207. It is, really? Please explain how atheism is a religion.

[onehandle]

210. It's a belief in an 'ultimate truth.'

'There is no God.'

One could say that organized Atheism is a church.

But you don't need a church to practice a religion.

[darkstar3]

215. Show me one atheist who has claimed

"There is no God."

Just one. Dawkins doesn't, Hitchens doesn't, Dennet doesn't. The closest thing I've seen is denying the existence of the Christian God, which frankly, he's pretty improbable to begin with.

[onehandle]

217. I'm not going to do that, but if you really think that is correct...

...then you need ask to change the definitions on just about every site on the Internets.

Now there are some Atheists who just say that they are just not 'Theists,' but few of them live at DU.

And anyway, if you can't commit. You're an agnostic.


Now all of this wordplay, actually strengthens my position that Atheism is a religion.

It sure has some the same basic technical complications and political bullshit.

[darkstar3]

219. You're not going to,

because you can't. And I don't need to change any definitions, as the definition of atheist is simply "without gods." Your clever wordplay doesn't change the fact that atheism is simply a lack of belief, which envelopes agnosticism and has fuck-all to do with religion.

But don't let facts stop you from burning up your straw man.

[rd_kent]

223. Only YOU could say that. Atheism is not a belief in anything, so you are dead wrong.

And we do not say "there is no god" we say "there is no EVIDENCE of god" and that is a big difference. You are arguing your point from ignorance. You need to educate yourself first.

[darkstar3]

225. It's a straw man, and he's beating it like a dead horse.

And he's doing it because he can't vent his obvious dislike of atheists any other way.

[onehandle]

226. I tell you what. You win. I was right and you are wrong. It has nothing to do with my point anyway.

So Atheists believe in the 'ultimate truth' that there is no evidence of God.

Fine.

I will let them enjoy their religion no matter what they believe.

[rd_kent]

227. Hahaha! What douche-baggery! I am glad you understand how wrong you are. Have a nice day.

[onehandle]

228. Nah. I was just ending the tangent.

BTW: It appears that the organization on the billboard is building a church.

You can donate here: http://atheistsofflorida.org/donate.html

You have a nice day.

[rd_kent]

230. To get on a tangent, you have to have started somewhere. As I stated, you are arguing from ignorance

so you really have no starting point.

And what church are you talking about. Please show me ONE, just one, atheist church. Good luck. Ready, set,go!

[Lost-in-FL]

235. Building a church? Only in the stretch of your imagination.

501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations.


So the Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust is a church for pets?

The Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust, a separately incorporated 501(c)(3) charitable organization, exists to protect wild animals throughout the world by preserving their natural habitats and providing permanent sanctuaries. Wildlife Land Trust sanctuaries prohibit recreational and commercial hunting and trapping, any further development, and destructive logging practices. Animals inhabiting these sanctuaries benefit from the principles of kindness, justice, compassion and respect for life.


http://www.hsus.org/about_us/offices_and_affiliates/

[jaded_old_cynic]

242. Soooooo by your logic...

By your logic DU is also a church because it accepts donations! All Hail the Great and Mighty Moderators! :sarcasm: (For those who need it.)

[defendandprotect]

209. No . . . "CHURCH" is religion and separated from STATE . . . in our Constitution ...

I see no hint of concern from our Founders about atheism --

nor any hint anywhere -- either from the IRS with a tax-exemption or anywhere else --

that this is anything but more right wing propaganda in an attempt to confuse some.

[onehandle]

211. LOL! I'm not even going to address that conflagration of strawmen. Except...

Oh, yeah. I am pushing my right wing agenda to confuse some.

That is my life long personal goal.

LOL!

[defendandprotect]

232. Do religion's get tax-exemption from the IRS . . . ???

[ZombieHorde]

188. Is the belief a toaster can not summon unicorns a religious belief?

Is not, "Non-belief is just another 'ultimate truth,' and thus a belief," a statement about ultimate truth? Is not your reply preaching this ultimate truth?

[onehandle]

200. I came into a forum for discussion. We're talking about a billboard.

This is too easy.

[darkstar3]

216. ZombieHoarde has a point.

You can ignore it if you want to, but you'll finally show that you can't defend your assertion that atheism is a religion.

[onehandle]

218. No. He has a strawman, as usual.

Unicorns and toasters are just playful tools to deny the existence of God.

I'm not talking about that.

Atheism is a religion. And the more we discuss this, the more I am starting to believe that it does have Churches.

Maybe the Religion/Theology forum could be considered a Church.

'Our Lady of Perpetual Intolerance'

Ah, yes. That's it.

[darkstar3]

220. Oh please.

The straw man here is yours.

You didn't come here for discussion, you came here to piss on people who disagree with you.

[rd_kent]

231. You did NOT come here for a discussion. You came here to try and push an agenda, and you FAILED!

Miserably.

[ZombieHorde]

233. Unable to answer to the question?

Unable to back up your logic?

Oh well.

[Starry Messenger]

145. Atheism is not a religion by any stretch of the definition of the word.

"I don't want to be preached at by anyone"--onehandle

I look forward to your protest threads about crosses on roadside churches.

[onehandle]

155. That would be preaching.

Pass.

[Starry Messenger]

156. But preaching about billboards is fine.

Gotcha.

[onehandle]

159. I'm preaching about people who preach.

Annoying. Ain't it?

[Starry Messenger]

161. On my list of things to be annoyed about?

No, actually pretty amusing. You're the guy who got all red-faced about a bumper sticker this year. You're just phoning it in today.

[defendandprotect]

180. Churches work to put their symbols on public property . . . seeking the

acknowledgment and authorization which comes with that connection to public space

and government property --

That's why they're so upset that prayer in public school was tossed out --

Makes "god" worship simply a PERSONAL belief system --

Meanwhile, I believe that beans are good for your health --

Lots of others believe so, too --

In fact, there's even a song about it --

and I bet you've heard it -- !!!


:evilgrin: :evilgrin:



Is this, then, the CHURCH of bean believers --

and is the song proselytizing???


Can Campbell's Beans get subsidized by government/tax-payers as a "faith-based" belief in

beans -- ???

[rd_kent]

148. Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[DeSwiss]

154. You have no idea what you're talking about. Period. n/t

[onehandle]

158. Oooh. You got me. nt

[DeSwiss]

197. Not any more. n/t

[onehandle]

222. I win. nt

[Silent3]

142. I don't want to be preached to by you.

So please stop posting here, throwing your views in other people's faces, and demonstrate to all of us how you to are capable of keeping your opinions quietly to yourself, which you seem to be suggesting is the best thing for all people (except yourself!) to do.

[onehandle]

160. That's rich.

90% of the conversation in Religion/Theology is preached by Atheists bashing religion.

Skinner and company should just rename this the 'Intolerance Dungeon.'

And before you make an assumption, I do not practice a religion.

[Silent3]

165. I'm not the one complaining about people stating their opinions.

I'm just pointing the irony of getting all self-righteously opinionated and noisy because you can't stand other people who you consider self-righteously opinionated and noisy about something else.

You do realize that the request for you not to post any more was meant sarcastically, yes?

I'm fine with anyone stating whatever view they like, and rather than tell others to shut up if I don't like what they say, I'll just use my freedom of speech to comment on why I don't like it.

You, on the other had, think atheists need to shut up, but think that you own vaunted opinion on who should be speaking out and who shouldn't counts as one of the things that it's OK to be loud and insulting about.

[darkstar3]

169. Would you like some cheese?

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

181. Hold on . .. if you BELIEVE atheism is a religion . . . I think THAT"S a religion . . .

:evilgrin:

[onehandle]

186. Why not? nt

[sakabatou]

91. You have to wonder...

"Who created the world if God did not?"

Where the fuck did they learn science if any?

[upi402]

98. They didn't

They were trained and coerced to suspend logic and reason, and buy the BS.

I hope Stephen Hawking can pull one off and do it soon. Glad Obama gave him the Medal of Freedom.

[sorrowspath]

99. Who created the dinosaurs?

They weren't mentioned in the bible that claims that the earth is just thousands of years old

[ElboRuum]

116. My answer...

"Why does it have to be a 'who'? Why can't it be a 'what' or a 'how'?"

[rd_kent]

149. I don't know and neither do you. Thats the point.

[onehandle]

204. Exactly right. nt

[Jokerman]

105. Wow, the ignorance displayed on this thread is amazing.

Atheists are vile.

Atheism is a cult.

Apparently the mere existence of atheists is threatening to some people so we should just stay quiet.

It is precisely this kind of attitude that makes it VITAL for free thinkers to speak out.

[madfloridian]

152. Well, I did not post in this forum. It was moved here.

So much for putting anything like this in GD forum.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

182. Didn't realize this was your thread . . . !!! Good work . ..

bad work by whomever moved it to religious dungeon -- !!

And, even worse, they reported it was LOCKED when I tried to post on it at

the previous location -- !!

It's so rude the way they do that, rather than giving you an immediate link to

where the thread has been moved to --

At any rate, I persisted and found it --



:) :hi:

[madfloridian]

184. When they move a post it breaks the journal links...

and someone had posted it elsewhere. Now has a dead link.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

185. I've mentioned this a few times -- there has to be a better way for them to do it .. .

I think I've e-mailed mods on that --

Maybe it has to go all the way to the top -- to Skinner???

Next time I'm up to annoying the Administration, I'll get to it -- !!!

:)

[muriel_volestrangler]

206. All you have to do is put the new thread in your journal

and remove the old one. Think of it as your penance for misplacing the thread in the first place. :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

208. No -- you have to find the new link . . .

When they tell you the thread isn't any longer available --

they do not immediately provide a link to the new location --

In fact, in the case of this thread, they suggested it had been LOCKED!!!

But, I persisted !!!

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

118. Thanks for this news . .. there was a msg that the thread was "locked" ...????

But I persisted and finally found it relocated to the religion dungeon . .. !!!

:evilgrin: :eyes: :evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

151. It is picture of that area of Florida politically and socially

It is just the way it is.

I am more agnostic now than anything else since we left our church, but I did not see how this post could raise such anger.

It is that way in many areas.

I never expected such anger.

[defendandprotect]

183. Maybe because it's "The last kick of a dying mule" . . . ????

:evilgrin:

[darkstar3]

174. This billboard war and entire thread is a perfect example of what PZ Meyers recently said.

Trotsky quoted him here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x228474#228609

I'd say that pretty much hits this on the nose.

[onager]

196. Name change

From now I will refer to myself as "Vile Arrogant Fundamentalist Atheist," or "VAFA" for short.

Thank you.

[uberllama42]

203. You forgot "cultist"

It's vital that you admit that we are also members of a cult. We should call ourselves VAFACs.

[muriel_volestrangler]

229. If we were Fundamentalist Arrogant Vile Atheists

then at least we might get a nice bottle of chianti out of it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

236. And liver. Don't forget the liver. -nt

[EvilAL]

237. What exactly do atheists talk about at these meetings?

I mean I understand that it's a church/state issue in this case. Anyone can have a meeting to discuss church/state issues. If I was going to start an atheist movement in my town what would I have to offer?
Come join us, so we can sit down and talk about how we don't believe in God. Let's open this meeting.. Me: Do you believe in God??
Them: No.
Me: ok, the bar is open.

[Deep13]

238. "I was totally ticked" that not everyone agrees with me and my imaginary friend.

Religion, especially the kind that claims to have all the answers, gives people excessive self esteem. That results in arrogant attitudes that take offense at mere disagreement.

[and-justice-for-all]

239. LOL! "Who created the world if God did not?"

Well, uh, NO ONE!!

[and-justice-for-all]

240. A clear display by believers that they are not secure in their..

own beliefs.

Atheist making use of such adverts was unheard of not to long ago, then they start to speak up and the believers freak out, also because they do not like having their bullshit questioned. Even though they have been advertising their irrational nonsense every where for as long as I can remember.

If it was the other way around, whereas Atheist had been doing what religion had been doing for as long as they have, I would say the very say thing.