The Ten Commandments

[laconicsax]

Exodus 34

¹And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. ²And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount. ³And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.

⁴And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone. ⁵And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

⁶And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,⁷Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

⁸And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. ⁹And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

¹⁰And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee. ¹¹Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the anaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite. ¹²Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: ¹³But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

    (1)¹⁴For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: ¹⁵Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; ¹⁶And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

    (2)¹⁷Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

    (3)¹⁸The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

    (4)¹⁹All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. ²⁰But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

    (5)²¹Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

    (6)²²And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

    (7)²³Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.²⁴For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

    (8)²⁵Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

    (9)²⁶The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.

    (10)Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

²⁷And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. ²⁸And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Transcendent stuff.

[mkultra]

1. of course, this was the second set of ten commandments

the first set, which where different, where smashed by moses.

[laconicsax]

2. Nope, God said that they're the same.

Exodus 34:1 (which you may have noticed in the body of this post)

¹And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

[mkultra]

13. the hewing refers to the cutting of the stones....

not the engraving.

Traditionally, the Ten Commandments come from Exodus 20 and covers these 10 things:

1. No other Gods
2. No graven images, or worshipping them
3. No taking the Lord’s Name in Vain
4. Remember the Sabbath Day
5. Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother
6. Thou Shalt Not Kill
7. Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery
8. Thou Shalt Not Steal
9. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness
10. Thou Shalt Not Covet


While the ten from exodus 34 are:


1. Thou Shalt Worship God and Him Only
2. Thou Shalt Not Make Molten Gods
3. Thou Shalt Keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread
4. The first born or all things is mine.
5. Six Days Shall You work, but on the Seventh thou shalt rest
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, and three times a year your men children shall appear before the Lord.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
8. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the Passover be left unto the morning.
9. The first-fruits of thy land shall you bring unto the house of the Lord Thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk.



Like i said. Different. The later set contain applications for Judaic custom whereas the first set do not.
The commandments where actually given three times, once, spoken by god to the people(which bothered them), second, handed to moses, and third, engraved on the hewn stone by moses.

while exodus 34:1 has god saying he would write them, 34:28 says that moses did it.

[laconicsax]

15. These 10 are actually called "the ten commanments" the other 10 are just the first in a list.

In Exodus 20, you get the first ten, a narrative interlude, then a few more before the end of the chapter. Exodus 21 starts of with more laws.

These ten are actually called "the ten commandments."

[mkultra]

16. so now your saying that they are different?

which is it. They are different and these are "the ten" or they are the same?

[laconicsax]

17. They're both the same and different.

Surely an omnipotent being can make an exact copy of something that's radically different than the original.

[mkultra]

18. I think you have summed the evangelical belief system

by metaphor. Thank you.

[laconicsax]

19. I did say it was transcendent stuff, didn't I?

[mkultra]

20. in a sort of tounge in cheek way it is

kind of like saying that 1+2=777 is somehow transcendental. You essentially made the standard pro christian position switch to avoid losing. When the discussion turned against you, you tried to change the topic. The question at hand was not what god can do, but rather what he did do.

[laconicsax]

21. I don't think a god had any hand in it.

I posted Exodus 34, you said they're different, I noted that the Bible says they're the same, you posted Ex. 20, I said Ex. 34 is different, you inquired, I clarified. I don't believe that they're the same--they're obviously different, though I acknowledge that my wording wasn't terribly clear. The way I see it, the discrepancy can be attributed to one of two possibilities:

1) An omnipotent god made a copy that is both identical and completely different. (This should be well within the abilities of an omnipotent entity.)
2) The Bible is an interesting read full of amazing events and fictional characters cobbled together over time in the absence of a copy editor. (This says nothing of the veracity of individual stories.)

The second option tends to rub people the wrong way here, so I'm trying out the first for a bit, though it looks like this rubs people the wrong way too.

The Bible does say that both 29,818 and 31,089 equal 42,360 (Ezra 2, Nehemiah 7), so 1+2=777 isn't that outlandish a claim.

[mkultra]

23. I see, well i think your ignoring another possible scenario

which is that the events may have actually happened but where historically recorded by humans who tend to fuck things up rather consistently.

I guess that's pretty close to your option 2 but the inclusion of fictional characters makes it sounds intentional. What im saying is that you must consider that the bible was intentionally crafted with ulterior motive or rather just accidentally mis-recorded.

[laconicsax]

24. That's included in option 2.

2) The Bible is an interesting read full of amazing events and fictional characters cobbled together over time in the absence of a copy editor. (This says nothing of the veracity of individual stories.)

The events in the Bible, real or fictional are amazing, and the fact that it was originally assembled by members of a religious tribe as their holy scriptures implies that it was intentionally crafted with ulterior motive. The original authors also clearly didn't employ a copy editor.

You can't ignore the fact, however that the Bible has fictional characters right from the beginning. The entire book of Genesis is likely fiction. Moses is possibly fictional, and the list goes on. It's even possible that Jesus was never a real person and originally intended only as an allegorical figure.

Remember, calling it fiction is being polite. Fiction is written for a reason, be it entertainment, allegory, or whatever.

[Meshuga]

3. Do you mean the 15 commandments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE7tTT8khf0

[laconicsax]

4. Love that movie.

God must have forgotten that there were 15 on three tablets and decided to just leave it at 10 for the second copy.

[RC]

5. Carving stone is hard work.

[Meshuga]

7. Yeah, perhaps he thought it was too much trouble. :-) n/t

[Meshuga]

8. Love that movie too

Especially the last supper part.

Yeah, I wonder what those who are so fixated with the 10 commandments think of Exodus 34.

[rgbecker]

6. If its good enough for Alabama, its good enough for me.

[msongs]

9. closely followed by The Ten Amendments....

attached to each commandment is this amendment:

"..unless one is a republican or espouses one's own family values as being superior to others' based solely on religious belief."

Msongs

[rrneck]

10. Words from the true sainted sage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8

[laconicsax]

11. He's talking about the other ten.

The ten that kick off Exodus 20 and reiterated in Deuteronomy 5 are just the first of 613.

These ones are the true ten commandments--it even says so right afterwords.

[Silent3]

12. I have to wonder, even back in the time and culture...

...this crap was written, if commandments like that didn't strike some people as the ramblings of a lunatic with a few bizarre obsessions and fixations.

[PVnRT]

14. Weren't there 15 before Moses dropped the third tablet?

[MineralMan]

22. That's just a polite translation, you see. I've provided another:

The original translation:

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. 2And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount. 3And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.

A more realistic one:

1. And the Lord said unto Moses, You dumbass! You dropped those tables and broke them. So go make a couple more and I'll write on them again. 2. And don't dilly-dally. Get up early and climb up mount Sinai, you lazy twit. Holler when you get up there. 3. And don't bring any other clumsy assholes with you. Don't tell anyone you're coming or let anyone see how stupid you were to break the first tables. And keep the damn sheep and goats away from the mountain. I hate stepping in goat shit.

[Shadrach]

25. Moses comes down from Mount Sinai

And he says, "I have good news and bad news," he tells the crowds gathered below. "The good news is I got them down to ten. The bad news is, adultery is still in."

Our rabbi told this one to the congregation. :-)