Question for both atheists and theists.

[ZombieHorde]

If you are an atheist, could you chose to be a theist within the next 10 days?

If you are a theist, could you chose to be an atheist within the next 10 days?

How much free will do you have concerning this subject? I know I did not chose to be an atheist.

[rd_kent]

1. Sure you did. And you can still choose to be something else.

No one indoctrinated you into atheism.

[enlightenment]

4. The choice to say "I am an atheist" is, indeed, a choice.

The realization that one does not have faith in the unknown - which is, according to my theist friends, the fundamental determining factor in their belief . . . after all else is said, it comes down to 'faith' - isn't a choice.

It is simply a realization. Apparently some people have the ability and some don't.

I realized that at a young age. I chose to define myself with words as an adult.

The answer to Zombie? No. I couldn't turn into a theist, even if I wanted to - I don't have 'faith'.

[ZombieHorde]

5. I was raised in a Catholic family, in a Catholic comunity, and I went to a Catholic

school. The supernatural lessons just never stuck. I did not know the word "atheist", but I was an atheist.

[darkstar3]

2. What is seen, cannot be unseen. n/t

[martymar64]

3. My feelings exactly

When I first decided that a god did not exist, I was about 12 and it was extremely depressing. I felt utterly alone in the universe. It was only through psychedelics that I was able to come to terms with it and to feel a connection with the cosmos. It took a few years for me to become comfortable with it and now it doesn't bother me at all.

[Warpy]

6. Sorry, out of my control

and probably out of other people's control, as well.

The most you could expect on either side is lip service to avoid bullying.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. I don't think so

On one level, yes, I choose to be a theist.

But a belief in God (whatever form that God takes) has been a part of my being since I can remember. I don't think I could successfully put that aside.

[Sal316]

8. Could I? Yes.

Would I? No.

[ZombieHorde]

11. What process or method would you use to alter your stance? nt

[Lost-in-FL]

9. I could never go back to being a theist.

For I am truly free.

[laconicsax]

10. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in.

Could I chose to be a theist? Maybe. I considered myself one for many years without much more belief than "maybe there is." I'm now an atheist but readily acknowledge the possibility of a deity.

Do we really have free will? Our options are always limited by things outside of our control, the choices we make are often in response to outside stimulus, and once we make a decision, we're further limited by it.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Not necessarily

Not if you think that different peoples at different times and places have perceived God differently - but there is simply God, however God is perceived.

[laconicsax]

26. So do you believe in Zeus? Thor? Marduk? Amon-Ra?

If not, you're an atheist about those gods.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. I believe that's how people then perceived God

Differently from my own perception of course, but God is so much bigger than any person or people's ability to perceive.

[laconicsax]

28. Quelle arrogance!

You don't just assume that any god that anyone ever worshiped is the same god you believe in...you know it is.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. I believe people have long been reaching

for relationship with God, and that we all come to an idea that's comfortable for us, suits our culture and upbringing.

I think actually it's the opposite of arrogance. I don't assume the way I perceive God or the theology I've been taught constrains God, or that someone else's perception must therefore be wrong. It's a nod to my limits as a human being.

[Jim__]

12. I don't think I could become a theist in 10 days.

Whether or not you believe in a god usually goes a long way toward defining the world that you live in. To change your belief is to abandon the world that you know and live in a new, strange world. I think it takes a long time to change beliefs that are so basic.

[GliderGuider]

23. I agree - my shift took my much longer than 10 days.

Tearing off the face I had since childhood and reconstructing it was the work of months and years. I spent 57 years as a strong atheist. I don't call myself a theist even now, since I still don't have a belief in a discrete, externalized god. It's more of a non-dual awareness, a sense that I and the Universe are one and that the Oneness is sacred.

[TZ]

13. I would normally say no.

But given a traumatic life altering event in one's life who knows what will happen to one's beliefs (both getting faith and losing faith I think)

[ZombieHorde]

29. Would the traumatic event be the cause of the change, or would free will be the cause the of change?

[Amaya]

14. would never

be a theist... ever again.

[Lerkfish]

15. I think, like all matters of belief or non-belief, there is a discriminatory thinking process

by that I mean I think we all choose what to believe or not to believe. I don't think atheism is lack of choice, I think its also a choice to adopt a worldview with a conscious effort.

I'm interested in how you would argue it is not.

I believe both are possible. I think, as humans, we have the ability to adopt a worldview of our choosing and there is easily the ability to do so in 10 days, in a day, in a moment.

We all have free will concerning this. I guess I don't understand why you are having trouble with that.

I also don't know if you're assuming that being a theist is a lack of choice, because that would also be wrong. Even if you are raised in a religious family, there is a time when you examine your faith and decided whether it suits your worldview or if it doesn't.

I think its wrong to assume either theists or atheists arrive at their choice without careful thought and self-examination.

[ZombieHorde]

16. "I'm interested in how you would argue it is not."

I did not chose to be an atheist, yet I am an atheist. I was raised Catholic, but I just never believed. My argument is my own perceived inability to believe in gods.

I don't think I could sincerely believe Poseidon is a literal sea god in the next 10 days. If I was able to manage this feat, would I log onto DU and tell everyone to pray to Poseidon before every sea voyage? Would I be better off having a personal relationship with Poseidon?

I think its wrong to assume either theists or atheists arrive at their choice without careful thought and self-examination.

Careful thought and self-examination, or justification for previously held beliefs? Which is stronger, the laws of causation, or freewill?

[Lerkfish]

19. I really don't understand your argument

you claim you never made a choice, but you say you were raised a catholic but you never believed. That is a choice, IMHO. And I applaud you for it, I think that was probably a courageous choice to make in that situation.

I"m not arguing specific individuals could adopt certain specific selections, like whether you personally could start worshipping Posiedon. Instead, I"m arguing that a given person can make a given choice in a moment or ten days for whatever reasons of their own, and that making that choice is free will, based on introspection, inspiration, life event or being influenced by the choice of another.

You seem to be arguing that we start out of the gate with a given worldview and nothing whatsoever changes that and we exercise no choice to do so.
Existentially, that's an interesting abstract concept, but I just don't happen to agree with it. If you were correct then conversion to or rejection of religion or atheism could never occur.

unless I'm not understanding your argument, which is possible. At least to me it appears you are making the argument of ironclad determinism instead of freewill, which is a very odd position for an atheist. Determinism seems to be more the realm of fundamentalist theism.

we'll have to vehemently disagree if you are determined to deny free will.

[ZombieHorde]

31. "we'll have to vehemently disagree if you are determined to deny free will."

I want to believe in free will, but I currently lack the self knowledge to really know if I have free will or not.

My current guess is I have some free will, but not complete free will.

I don't think I have any free will on the subject of who I love, or even who I have crushes on.

[GliderGuider]

24. My atheism was not a choice.

I was brought up in an atheist household (both parents were atheists, as well as my maternal grandparents), and it was crystal clear to me from infancy that if I wanted to maintain my father's love my only option was to share his atheism. To support that necessity I built up an elaborate set of post-hoc intellectual justifications why that was the "correct" perspective.

My adoption of a more spiritual position at age 58 was definitely a matter of choice, not least because it required me to step out of my father's shadow and risk losing his love. By that time I'd internalized his values as my own, so it was a very arduous and wrenching process. I'm very glad I did it, though.

[struggle4progress]

17. Yes: Christianity is for me purely an existential choice.

[Meshuga]

18. Like you I don't think it is a choice

If I change my mind then I attribute that to experience, learning, growing, evolving, etc. Or even regressing, depending on a point of view. But I don't see this type of change as a matter of choice.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. No, it would be denying my experiences and deepest instincts

I have chosen the FORM which my theism takes, but not the actual belief.

[RebelOne]

21. As an atheist, I can say that I would not want to be a theist at any time.

[laconicsax]

22. I believe the question was "could" not "would."

[ZombieHorde]

30. You are right. My OP is about belief and free will. nt

[cynatnite]

33. How do we NOT make choices?

Are you saying that atheism was forced upon you? Or that you made the conscious choice to investigate the possibility that gods exists or do not exist?