How God and John Wesley inspired the man behind Guinness

[Sal316]

It is the mid-1760s, and in Dublin's grand St. Patrick's Cathedral the famed revivalist John Wesley is preaching with all of his might. He is aware that the congregation of St. Patrick's is filled with the city's more successful, comfortable, perhaps self-satisfied souls. And so he thunders against their self-centeredness, rails against their disregard for the poor. "Oh who has courage to speak plain to these rich and honorable sinners?" Wesley writes afterward in his journals.

In the congregation is a young businessman who only a few years before has begun to make his mark in the city.

We should be glad that he did, for that young man was Arthur Guinness, the founder of the renowned brewery whose 250th anniversary we celebrate this year.

Guinness Got It

[darkstar3]

1. So an entrepreneur in the 1700s went to church?

In other news, the sky is blue...:eyes:

But perhaps this explains why Guinness sucks! (That's right, I went there.)

[onehandle]

2. What? You don't like your beer to taste like soot?

I think Guinness is an acquired taste that I am yet to acquire.

My wife likes it.

[darkstar3]

3. I like my beer either wheaty or amber.

I'm not really fond of the bitter stuff.

[rd_kent]

13. Oh, DARKSTAR, no you did NOT!!!!

C'mon dude! Guinness sucks? Thems fightin words!!!

:)

[darkstar3]

14. How can you fight me with a belly full of stew?

:)

Guinness sucks because I have a very simple criterion for drinks: I should not be able to chew them.

[skepticscott]

22. Myths, myths, myths...

Guinness is not particularly bitter, as beers go, not all that thick, and not all that high in alcohol.

[darkstar3]

23. Says you! My tongue disagrees...n/t

[LuvNewcastle]

4. I watched a Billy Graham crusade once.

It only encouraged me to drink beer, not to make it.:toast:

[tabatha]

5. like this:

As a Guinness who headed the brewery in the mid-1800s said, "You cannot make money from people unless you are willing for people to make money from you."

[laconicsax]

6. So is this supposed to be a significant contribution to the world?

One the world would be poorer for had Christianity never existed?

[trotsky]

7. Duh.

Clearly the only force for human decency and goodness is religion - and the CHRISTIAN religion at that. Somebody is pretty damn insecure about his beliefs.

[laconicsax]

9. So what about the Guinness-related drunk driving deaths?

Are those Christianity's contribution or are those the fault of atheism?

[trotsky]

10. Ooh, good question.

I'm going to guess that only atheists - FUNDIE atheists - are drunk drivers. Because clearly no true Christian drives drunk. True Christians are perfect and responsible for everything decent in the world.

[laconicsax]

11. And True Christians only drink Guinness.

[trotsky]

12. Well this atheist sure doesn't drink it.

Give me a nice hoppy pale ale any day.

[laconicsax]

15. I drank a pint last night as part of an experiment.

I wanted to find out if drinking Christian beer would make me feel the love of the Abrahmic god. When I was done, I had a somewhat unpleasant feeling in my gut, though I suspect that had to do more with the number of jalepeños that were on the happy-hour nachos I ate.

I do wonder...if a priest waved his hands over it, would it transubstantiate? If so, what part of Christ would it magically become?

[trotsky]

17. Hmm, let's think about that.

After all, Christianity is a perfectly rational and reasonable faith according to some, in particular the OP, so...

Unleavened bread --> body
* This transformation takes a solid food and turns it into flesh (skin?). Rationally, I imagine this is because the gluten protein framework is magically transformed into the cell tissue framework of skin.

Wine --> blood
* This transformation requires less rationalization. Red liquid --> red liquid. Virtually the same! No wonder Dracula has such a good time!

Dark, thick, smelly beer --> ???
* Hmm, what is in (or comes out) of our body that is dark, thick, and smelly? Rational readers, what do you think?

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Beer = two-in-one Eucharist

It's cereal-based, like bread, and it's alcoholic, like wine. Take two foodstuffs into Communion? No, I just use this handy, all-in-one beverage! It's just the thing for the busy believer-on-the-go!

If you have a three-in-one god, a two-in-one celebration seems appropriate.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Surprising they end on this note:

Yet there is another lesson for us today. We are tempted in our disgust with Wall Street greed and corporate misdealing to reject the economic engine that has made us great, to prefer the security of the state to the vicissitudes of free market exchange.

What we learn from the Guinness story is that character is king, that markets without ethical boundaries make Madoffs but that corporations driven by a benevolent vision can do vast amounts of good.

It is morals and ethics that we need, then, not a new economic system, and this, perhaps, is the most lasting legacy of the Guinness tale for us today.

when in business in the last 25 years, the word 'Guinness' is most associated with "share-dealing scandal":

The report's authors said they found the behaviour of Guinness's directors thoroughly shocking.

"Firstly, the cynical disregard of laws and regulations; secondly the cavalier misuse of company monies; thirdly, a contempt for truth and common honesty. All these in a part of the City which was thought respectable.

"Though the water has now passed far below the bridge, the depiction of these phenomena in this report may, we hope, go some further way to at least reducing their recurrence in the future."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/34910.stm

Still, maybe there was a divine miracle involved:

Mr Saunders was convicted of false accounting, theft and conspiracy, in 1990.

But his five-year sentence was halved on appeal. He was released from open prison after serving only 10 months when doctors said he was suffering from Alzheimer's disease, a permanent condition.

At the time of his appeal, a psychiatrist said he was unable to recall three numbers backwards and did not know who was President of the United States.

Mr Saunders health subsequently improved but his advisers denied he had made a "miraculous recovery" from Alzheimer's disease, suggesting instead his illness while in prison was stress-related.

Mr Saunders has since carved out a lucrative consultancy career while at the same time negotiating his £75,000 annual pension from Guinness.

Not bad for an Alzheimer's sufferer, eh?

[Lost-in-FL]

16. The only believable spirit here is that of entrepreneurship. nt

[dmallind]

19. Well he founded Guinness in 1759 so a mid-1760's preacher gets no credit

If you instead want to celebrate that a mid 18th Century gentleman went to church, go for it. Almost all did. Atheism, IIRC, was at the time a punishable crime so there was definitely an incentive.

[Jim__]

20. Ummmm, did you read the article?

In the congregation is a young businessman who only a few years before has begun to make his mark in the city. Born in nearby Celbridge and raised on the archbishop's estate that his father managed, this young man has gained something of a reputation for his skill at brewing beer. In fact, he has purchased a defunct brewery at St. James' Gate, along the River Liffey, and, having married well and embedded himself skillfully in Dublin's merchant class, he fully intends to rise.

Now, listening to John Wesley speak of the obligations of wealth, of a God-given duty to care for the hurting of the world, this gifted young man is reminded of values he learned on that archbishop's estate and at his father's knee. They are values that resurfaced in the Reformation of Calvin and Luther and that were set aflame and made personal in the Methodism of John Wesley. This rising entrepreneur hears and allows Wesley's words to frame a vision for his fledgling company: a vision for producing wealth through brewing excellence and then for using that wealth to serve the downtrodden and the poor.

We should be glad that he did, for that young man was Arthur Guinness, the founder of the renowned brewery whose 250th anniversary we celebrate this year. His famous dark stout would become one of the most beloved beverages in the world, the Guinness brand among the most recognizable on earth. Yet interwoven throughout these 2 and a half centuries of brewing success is a legacy of benevolence that we ought to know and that is perhaps an antidote to one of the great crises of our age.

The values Arthur Guinness envisioned for his company were first honed in a life of devotion to God. He was an earthy but pious man who frequently thundered his views despite angry opposition. He was beloved throughout Ireland for his defense of Roman Catholic rights, for example, an astonishing stand for a Protestant in his day. He criticized the material excesses of the upper class and sat on the board of a hospital for the poor. He was also the founder of the first Sunday schools in Ireland. When he died in 1803, the Dublin Evening Post declared that Arthur Guinness's life was "useful and benevolent and virtuous." It was true.

[dmallind]

21. Yes - that's why I wondered what on earth we have the minister to thank for...