Atheists, do you actively seek out Liberal Christian opinion on the issues of the day?

[More Than A Feeling]

Especially if you think that said Christians have an obligation to speak out to avoid being lumped in with the reactionaries?

edit: by "Liberal Christian opinion" I don't just mean on DU. I mean books, articles, and so on.

[lanlady]

1. No.

I don't think liberal Xns have an "obligation" to speak out on anything.

[MattBaggins]

2. Hell no

Why would I seek out view points from people I am about to blast with broad sweeping generalizations?

That would be silly

[ProleNoMore]

3. Why Would Atheists Want To Seek Out Religious Opinions?

eom

[More Than A Feeling]

4. For the sake of avoiding generalizations, perhaps.

Plus, its not exactly fair to expect a group to speak out without making an effort to see if they are doing so.

[damntexdem]

10. Perhaps to avoid being isolated in their own narrow little heads?

Wouldn't want to be like RW Xian fundies, after all. Right?

[BurtWorm]

18. An opinion that identifies itself as Christian, liberal or not, is not interesting to me usually.

Do you seek out the opinions of liberal satanists, for comparison?

[BurtWorm]

5. No. Not opinion that identifies itself that way, certainly.

Not on purpose.

[RainDog]

6. no. not interested in religious views of most things

based upon my experience.

however, I am glad that such people are trying to change the terms of debate for christians in this nation. they have an audience, but it's not me or other atheists I know.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. I seek out liberal opinion, period.

If the opinion comes from a christian, that's his problem. If that liberal christian won't speak out against christofascists, that's OUR problem.

[damntexdem]

12. Hear, hear!

[frebrd]

8. Do Liberal Christians seek out Atheist opinion on the issues of the day.....

books, articles, and so on?

I know I'm answering a question with a question, but that's my answer, I'm afraid.

[liberalmuse]

9. I really don't give a shit what self-professed 'Christians' think.

Liberal or not. I do actively seek out liberal and to a much lesser extent, conservative opinion, but I could give a rat's ass what religion they are.

[heidler1]

11. IMO Christian opinion is seldom liberal. However, Jesus was a liberal.

Who ever this Jesus guy was. Jesus is a ideal enity. There is nothing ideal about this Christ enity. The way I get it is the basis of Christ is to restore Jewish power and influence in the world. That's not very high on my priority list.

[Lost-in-FL]

13. As a freethinker, I seek for everyone's opinions.

If is about "matters of government" (and I want to be clear here, GOVERNMENT), xtian or any other religious opinion has no valid weight on a discussion.

[MineralMan]

14. I'm not sure what a Liberal Christian opinion might be.

An opinion is an opinion. A liberal opinion is a liberal opinion. What does Christianity have to do with it?

[laconicsax]

15. Why would I actively seek out any religious group's opinion on non-religious issues?

Of course, when the fundies start screaming their heads off about the imaginary outrage of the month and liberal Christians are silent on it, I take it as telling.

[More Than A Feeling]

17. How do you divide "religious issues" from "nonreligious issues"?

Also, Liberal Christians risk your judgment if they don't also get caught up in imaginary outrages?

[laconicsax]

20. Easy.

Religious issues are issues that pertain to religion. The economy, for example, is not a religious issue. Neither is global climate change. If religious people want to offer their opinions on such matters as a religious viewpoint, they're free to do so, but I don't see why I should care what someone feels to be the Christian viewpoint on the economy.

Also, yes, but subjectively and only to a point.

[T Wolf]

16. Why seek wisdom from the irrational? IF they take their motivation for good from an imaginary

source, they still can do good.

It does not matter why.

[darkstar3]

19. Here's the problem:

How deep do I have to dig before I find that liberal Christian speaking out against the so-called 'reactionaries'?

Kansas and Texas are battlefields for evolution education.
Over 30 states restrict abortion in some way.
The vast majority of states in the US do not allow same-sex marriage, and many have preemptively passed Constitutional amendments against it.
Pharmacists in much of the heartland are allowed to deny prescriptions to people based on their beliefs.
And this is just what I can think of off the top of my head.

All of these abominable situations were created and are perpetuated by the so-called 'reactionaries'. If they are such a minority, if they are such an abomination to your faith, why do they have such power?

I shouldn't have to dig for Christians that oppose these people, they should be out in swarms fighting this bullshit.

When I see liberal Christians publicly opposing these things, when I see them forming groups such as 'Christians against H8' or some such, then I'll believe that they are doing something worthwhile to counteract the 'reactionaries'. In the meantime, that's not what I see. I see liberal Christians giving tithes and other offerings to their congregations, who then turn around and fund such wonderful political movements as those mentioned above. I see liberal Christians individually stating 'That's not my faith,' but I don't see any groups taking to the streets to counteract the hateful message propelled by 'the reactionaries'.

It is not enough, and will never be enough, for the liberal Christians to disown the 'reactionaries' and then wash their hands of the 'other' group's actions. It doesn't work that way. Both groups are Christians, and if the liberal wing of American Christians doesn't want to be lumped in with the reactionaries, then they need to get serious and either school those reactionaries or LEAVE the group.

As I said in another thread, if you want to be heard, you either grab the mic, or grab your friends and go somewhere else.

As for actually asking their opinions on the issues mentioned above: I don't have to. They're liberals, ergo they abhor this crap, but unless and until they are willing to stand up publicly as a group and shout down the demonic usurpers of their faith, I feel no pity for them.

[Warpy]

21. I think your question is badly stated.

Do atheists actively seek out Christian opinion on theological issues? Why would we?

Do we seek out Christian opinion on secular issues? Why wouldn't we?

[Meshuga]

22. You just posted the questions I was going to post

I would ask "why?" to the former and "why not?" to the latter.

[DeSwiss]

23. While your query is poorly stated.....

...it is also clear (to me at least), that you weren't after answers, but you simply used this question as a vehicle to convey your barely disguised disdain for atheists. And while I do not label myself in such a way, I admire atheists because they have consciously taken the decision to acknowledge reason and reality, and to stop trying to define it using fables and myths as their guide. Atheists may not know everything, but they know bullshit when they see it.

Likewise, anyone who is intelligent enough to be able to distinguish the difference between a frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic religionist and the so-called "liberal" ones, should also be smart enough to realize that non-believers don't give a crap about what a religionist thinks about them -- whatever their flavor. Only what they do. And in this instance what we've seen liberal religionists do (with respect to the issues you raise in your query) is: squat. Liberal religionists from my experience, appear more than willing to just sit on their arses while others of their ilk but on the other end of the continuum, deny and refute the so-called "Good News." But if liberal religionists are willing to be defined by these ignorant mutants, then that's your business.

We non-believers simply want you to keep your views, no matter how liberal you think they are, out of our civil life. And then you can go on about your business and we'll go on about ours. However, know this: we will not be silenced just because you choose to remain so. And if you dislike being lumped together with the crazies among you, then that's something only you can change. But it will never change, unless and until you open your mouth and say ENOUGH!



OUR SILENCE

[Starry Messenger]

35. DeSwiss nails it as usual

:thumbsup:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. Not only NO, but HELL NO!!!

:wtf:

Why bother?

[GodlessBiker]

25. Nope.

[PassingFair]

26. We have a guy here in Detroit. I care very much what he thinks and does...

Bishop Thomas Gumbleton. Walks the talk. He is shunned by
many Catholics in our area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gumbleton

[montanto]

27. I don't know any "liberal" Christians.

I'm not saying they can't exist, I just don't know any of them.

[Random_Australian]

28. Honestly, it never occurs to me to check someone's religion when asking an opinion.

I mostly talk to my friends, some of whom are religious. When I ask them for advice, I might think about their ability to assess a particular situation based on the traits I know about them, but never stop to consider what religious beliefs they have.

As for obligations and reactionaries, I do believe we all have an obligation to put forward counterarguments to knee-jerk reactions and to counter extremism where we can. To me, that obligation lies equally with everyone.

[dmallind]

29. I'll buck the trend here and say, with limitations, yes I normally do.

It's not like I place ads looking for liberal Xian input on health care reform, but I certainly read sources from that spectrum like Sojourners. However please honestly answer how many people have heard of that site and consider it influential compared to how many people have heard of and consider influential, say, Focus on the Family? Why is Dobson more successful than Wallis at getting his point across and encouraging huge numbers of supporters to toe the line? If the "reactionaries" were really a minority, why is that?

Nobody is pretending there are NO liberal Xian voices. But they are drowned out, outnumbered, outfunded and rendered barely visible by the fundies. So are the voices of atheists of course - but we are undeniably a tiny minority viewpoint without a cohesive single policy. The voices of atheist and liberal Xians are about equal in their soicetal, political and social influence, but we are a tiny demographic. This of course leads you to only two possible conclusions - that either liberal Christians are also a tiny demographic, or they simply don't care enough that a supposed minority of their religious brethren are co-opting the right to speak for their shared faith with terribly bigoted, hateful, divisive and reprehensible proposals. If liberal Christians were really a majority, why is Dobson so much more powerful and well funded than Wallis et al?

The fundamental (pardon the pun) problem is that the Christians who get the support, the funds, the voters and the press are the hateful ones. How hard is it then to argue that they are not the most popular amongst Christians?

[rd_kent]

30. No need to, they usually give it without having to be asked.......

even on issues that have nothing to do with religion.

[iris27]

31. I don't actively seek it out any more than I actively seek out the reactionary

fundamentalist Christians' opinions on the issues of the day. I do feel that if moderate and liberal Christians want 1) to "avoid being lumped in with the reactionaries" and 2) to be assumed to really be the majority of Christians....then they need to stop being a silent majority. They should speak out with their opinions, and be the most active voices calling out the reactionary Christians, and by virtue of their vastly superior numbers, I should be hearing about their opinions more frequently than I do about the fundies' opinions.

[ZombieHorde]

32. Why doesn't DU count? nt

[Deep13]

33. No. I try to focus on the objective facts, not opinions.

I don't concern myself with disputes within Christianity.

[Jamastiene]

34. Yes.

I have no problem with a lot of liberal Christians. They seem to hold values of compassion and mercy that I admire. They are just outnumbered and trying to find a way to do good when they can. I used to expect them to fight harder against the right wing jerks who call themselves Christians, but now I see how hard that is. I do wish liberal Christians had more power though.