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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 02:54 PM Original message |
Western science developed within the context of the Church itself |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:07 PM Response to Original message |
1. Because scholarship was largely limited to churchmen. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 04:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
8. An uninformed, illiterate populace was ideal for the church. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 04:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
9. For the possibility of general education, one should perhaps thank Gutenberg's |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:10 PM Response to Original message |
2. Follow the arc of scientific progress in the West before the rise of the Roman church and after. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 04:40 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. post hoc ergo propter hoc |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 04:51 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. You don't think there was a direct correlation between the Age of Faith |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 05:10 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. First, one may question how much of a scientific culture the Greeks actually had. |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 12:14 PM Response to Reply #12 |
33. Aristotle. Epicurus, Democritus, Pythagoras, Hippocrates, Archimedes, Empedocles, Euclid |
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Soylent Brice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. !! |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. It is difficult, on any modern view to regard Empedocles, Democritus, or Epicurus |
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BurtWorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 03:08 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Democritus and Epicurus (especially) are pioneers in the sort of naturalism |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #37 |
42. " ... The work of Democritus has survived only in secondhand reports, |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #37 |
43. Epicurus is a speculative inventor of explanations, but he does not |
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ChadwickHenryWard (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #10 |
45. Oh wow, |
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moobu2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:18 PM Response to Original message |
3. What a laod of crap |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:26 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. The most accurate is to say |
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old mark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. Religious people are very prone to giving themselves credit |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:02 PM Response to Reply #3 |
13. If the Church were nothing but a constant impediment to rational thought and the |
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HeresyLives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 03:35 PM Response to Original message |
6. Surely, you jest. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 04:12 PM Response to Original message |
7. LMAO |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:20 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. In the medieval period, a number of Greek texts were translated into Latin |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:22 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. I suppose when you can't address the example at hand... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:39 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. ... Moses of Bergamo was one of these scholarly Italians in twelfth-century Constantinople; he is |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:56 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. And what use did the church make of these manuscripts? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 08:07 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. I suppose when you can't address the example at hand... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. You blur together many different people over an immense span of time, |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 08:54 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. And you do EXACTLY the same thing.... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 08:59 PM Response to Reply #22 |
23. One difference is: I actually give examples, with links. Another difference is: |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 06:46 AM Response to Reply #23 |
29. LMAO |
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ChadwickHenryWard (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 03:53 PM Response to Reply #29 |
46. I don't know what blame the Church has for that. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 07:53 PM Response to Original message |
17. So what do you want, a cookie? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 08:14 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. What kind of a cookie is it? |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 09:38 PM Response to Original message |
24. So? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 10:40 PM Response to Reply #24 |
25. The nastiness of human beings is almost enough to make one believe in Original Sin: |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 10:52 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. And it is my contention |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 12:02 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. You have an ugly habit of putting words into other people's mouths, in an ugly way |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 11:23 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. So, |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 06:47 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. "cherry picking in a futile attempt to polish a turd" |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-27-09 11:00 PM Response to Reply #25 |
27. Shedding light is what you're doing, eh? |
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TZ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 11:34 AM Response to Original message |
32. Yes and the church so warmly embraced germ theory it took how |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Pasteur was a practicing Catholic |
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Leontius (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 03:48 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. I appreciate your effort to educate but |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 04:58 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. Yeah, but I learn a lot from it. The brilliant chemist Liebig, who also savagely attacked |
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laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 05:13 PM Response to Reply #35 |
40. So what? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 03:04 PM Response to Reply #40 |
44. Trotsky suggested the Church opposed the germ theory of disease; but, in fact, the Catholics |
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laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 06:20 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. Again, so what? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 06:33 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. So "Church opposed germ theory of disease" seems to be nonsense. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 07:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. You're doing the exact same thing here |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 08:35 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. Actually, all I have done is to take on the canard that "religion is incompatible with science" |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-29-09 09:04 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. False. |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. the Church, as a general rule, did not oppose it... |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #44 |
55. No, I didn't. |
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ChadwickHenryWard (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 09:56 PM Response to Reply #40 |
67. I'm sure I didn't read you right. |
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moobu2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #67 |
71. Doesn’t the Catholic church still practice exorcisms? |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-28-09 06:37 PM Response to Original message |
41. Chemistry grew out of alchemy, astronomy out of astrology. |
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ChadwickHenryWard (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 10:10 AM Response to Original message |
52. This has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard: |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:10 PM Response to Reply #52 |
58. Of course, it is silly on any modern view, but the required changes did not affect |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:15 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. You know, you're right, |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:36 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. No, the church didn't object to Copernicus' work at all until it had freely |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:43 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. From. your. own. OP. |
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ChadwickHenryWard (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 09:33 PM Response to Reply #58 |
66. It absolutely did change the scientific content, |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 05:05 PM Response to Reply #66 |
73. "the only extant copy of the work was intentionally erased"??? |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 11:47 AM Response to Original message |
53. Completely ass-backwards "reasoning." |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 03:24 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. The date of Easter being set in the early fourth century as the first Sunday after |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:01 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Or MAYBE they just decided to co-opt the Pagan festival |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:22 PM Response to Reply #57 |
60. Since Christianity began as a splinter cult in Judaism, and since the |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. I suggest that you research the original Pagan holiday |
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Leontius (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 05:10 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. So that explains the different date for Christmas |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-30-09 05:52 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. That's a false parallel |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 01:06 AM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Confirmed, since I just spent 4 years among Eastern Xians... |
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Leontius (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 07:17 AM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Nope , sorry wrong |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Oh, boy.... |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-31-09 02:54 PM Response to Original message |
72. The Real Contribution, Sir, Is A Subtler Thing, Often Overlooked |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Sat May 04th 2024, 05:33 AM Response to Original message |
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