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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:19 PM
Original message
OK bible people
I'm a buddhist and I need quotes from the bible on the sinfulness of lying
to use against this administration and their religious "right"

I'm thinking about the memos from London.
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, there's commandment in the Old Testament...
..."Thou shalt not bear false witness," commonly said to prohibit lying......
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks, .
I knew that but there are palms yes?
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I expect there are. There are psalms about most things...
...there should be plenty in the New Testament too, Jesus himself warning about lying and bearing false witness.

i'll try and find some but i'm pretty busy this evening with a sick kid....who should be asleep soon with any luck..
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. or, there's John, chapter 8
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:35 PM by Lerkfish
39 "Abraham is our father," they answered.

   "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did.
40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
41 You are doing the things your own father does."
      "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

The Children of the Devil
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. thanks
Can you edited numerically so I can paste easy and highlight important points?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here are a few
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:30 PM by Horse with no Name
Psalm 101 :7
7 No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence.

Deuteronomy 33:29
Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. wonderful
Thanks
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here are some:
Exodus 20:16
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exodus 20:15-17 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)

Exodus 23:1
Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Exodus 23:1-3 (in Context) Exodus 23 (Whole Chapter)

Deuteronomy 19:18
And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deuteronomy 19:17-19 (in Context) Deuteronomy 19 (Whole Chapter)

Proverbs 12:17
He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Proverbs 12:16-18 (in Context) Proverbs 12 (Whole Chapter)

Proverbs 14:5
A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Proverbs 14:4-6 (in Context) Proverbs 14 (Whole Chapter)

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:7-9 (in Context) Revelation 21 (Whole Chapter)
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Great
send it to that church in North carolina also.
thank you my spiritual brothers and sisters.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Colossians 3: 5 - 11
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Look at the whole chapter; I don't see it reflected in a lot of republicans.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. some more
Psalm 24:4 (New International Version)

    4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
       who does not lift up his soul to an idol
       or swear by what is false.

Proverbs 6:19 (New International Version)

    19 a false witness who pours out lies
       and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


you can do some awesome searches yourself at:

www.biblegateway.com
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. More
Perfect one:

Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Proverbs 6:19
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 17:4
A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.

Proverbs 19:5
A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Zechariah 8:17
And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.

Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Luke 19:8
And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I like this alot
I know this is suppose to be a "non political" forum but that is no longer possible.
Thanks again all
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. thanks all
Can anyone consolidate this list to appropriate propaganda quotes to be used against our opponents (bushenfurher) on the sinfulness of lying? without added extraneous material?
I don't go to church obviously but with the memo and the quotes this could be passed and massively e-mailed.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. here ya go
Edited on Sat May-07-05 01:05 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
<snip>
Revelation 21:7-8 says, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
___________________________

Proverbs 6:16-19 says, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Examples of Dishonesty

As the moral climate of our society has been deteriorating, lying has become a major problem. The business world is particularly plagued by this problem--men’s dishonesty with each other, meetings "forgotten", company theft, promises not kept, contracts broken, etc. Lawyers have increased in numbers over the last decade, mainly because of irresponsibility and broken contracts among men due to lying. A news organization recently did a survey here in America and asked people several questions to determine the percentage of people who lied or were dishonest about things. Some of the questions were:

Do you cheat on your Income Tax Return?
Do you compliment people when you really don’t mean it?
Do you tell your spouse to tell callers you are not at home when you there?
Do you tell "little white lies" if it will keep you out of trouble?
Do you tell creditors that "the check is in the mail" when you have not yet mailed it?
Do you exaggerate in repeating things you have heard?

The results of this survey determined that 90% of Americans are not truthful under certain circumstances. This is understandable when we look at the morals of our society but what about Christians? Have they fallen into the habit of lying also? Also, what constitutes a lie according to the Bible? Anything that is not the truth is a lie and God’s Word the Bible tells us what is truth. The Bible is the standard or measuring rod we must use in determining truth. Sadly, Christians are also succumbing to this epidemic of lying. Lying to each other has now become so commonplace, Christians too, have become liars.

The Father of Lies

Have you been lied to lately? Was it another Christian that lied to you? A minister perhaps? Each of us have had our trust in people undermined, or in some cases even destroyed because of lies. We would all agree that lying is an ugly evil. The Bible tells us that lying began with the devil and that he is the father of lies.

John 8:43-47 says, "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

The Bible is filled with admonitions against being dishonest and lying. One of the Ten Commandments states:

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." Exodus 20:16

Before we point our finger at another for being a liar that we feel God needs to deal with, let us examine our own lives to see if we are infected with the same disease. What kind of witness are we to those around us? Are we deceived and have we become liars ourselves? Let us first give a definition as to what a lie is according to Webster’s dictionary:

1.) To make a statement that one knows is false, especially with the intent to deceive.
2.) To give a false impression or action or false statement, especially with the intent to deceive.
3.)To make a false statement in order to evade the truth.
4.)The invention of a false story or excuse in order to deceive.

Perhaps for a Christian, a Biblical definition of lying could be summed up in this statement:

Any time our word does not agree with God’s Word.

In Numbers 23:19 the Bible says, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

When we do not keep our word we are guilty of lying. Over the last year I have lost track of the number of times Christians have failed to keep their word to me. I am not angry or resentful or bitter over this, as the Lord has worked those attitudes out of my life. I have learned to take every offense to Him in prayer and He then removes any personal ill I might have and He gives me a forgiving and gracious attitude toward others. However, since I began to notice how many of God’s people were not keeping their word, I received a prayer burden of intercession for this evil to be removed from God’s people.

I first began praying about my own life and ask God to expose any areas where I might be guilty of this sin. I have tried to obey Romans 12:17-21 which says, "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."

Most of the time I would just forgive these lying offences and would just pray for them and try to "live peaceably with all men." However, in prayer, the Lord spoke to my heart that I must go one step further and "speak the truth in love" to my brothers and sisters if I truly loved them.

Ephesians 4:15-16 says, "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

If we, as the body of Christ, are to mature and grow up we must conform to the truth which is Jesus. The devil is behind every lie and as Christians we are admonished not to lie to one another.

Colossians 3:9-10 says, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."

Two Roots of Dishonesty

The two main reasons we lie are usually rooted in either fear or pride. Fear is the first reason. We are afraid of the consequences if we tell the truth. Yielding to fear shows a lack of trust in God to take care of the situation. If we yield to God and do it His way He will usually give us favor with those that we fear. The other reason is pride. We are prideful and concerned about what men will think of us (desiring man’s approval instead of God’s approval.)

Jesus always kept His Word. God still keeps His Word and is faithful to keep every promise He makes in the Bible. That is why He is reliable and we can trust Him. We are called to be like Him. The Bible says that out of a man’s mouth proceeds what is in His heart. If we tell lies or fib then it means that we need a heart cleansing.

Matthew 15:18-20a says, "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..."

We need to ask God to cleanse our hearts and begin reading and studying the Bible so that His Word resides in our hearts. As we keep His Word and water it with prayer it will produce good fruit in our lives. Lying is not only speaking an untruth; another form of lying is not keeping our word to others.

Luke 8:15 says, "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."

Little "White" Lies

Let us look at some specific ways the devil gets us to lie. We will expose some of his devices. These sorts lies are being practiced by many Christians. Now remember, we are guilty of lying when we do not keep our word. Even if these sorts of lies seem harmless and don't appear to really hurt anyone else, they are harmful to our own souls. The more we practice telling untruths of any kind, the duller our concience becomes.

1.) "I will call you back tomorrow." (This excuse is often used with a deliberate intent to decieve. The person does not call back at the appointed time and will call back at a much later date with excuses of why they were unable to call which usually goes something like: "I just was so busy, I meant to call , but did not get around to it." We all have been guilty of this, but we need to realize when we say we will do something we need to keep our word. We do understand there are legitimate reasons that make it impossible at times to keep our word. This is not the case we are referring to here. It would be better to not make this promise or to say, "I will try to call you back tomorrow.")

2.) "I will be happy to do that for you." (Whatever promise was made, it was not kept and their word about the matter causes them not to be trusted. The Holy Spirit is trying to purge this lack from His people and is using a group of men known as "Promise Keepers" to help restore trustworthiness back in the heads of families by stressing that they need to keep their promises.)

We could list numerous examples but these two cover a lot of territory; any time we say the words "I will" we need to be responsible to do it. We all, on occasion, fail to do the things we have good intentions of doing or we are hindered in some way and can’t do them. However, if we are unable to keep an appointment we should be thoughtful enough to call and cancel, or tell of our delayed arrival. We are living in an age when there are so many uncaring attitudes expressed. As Christians, we can be good witnesses by being different.

One of the biggest faults of many Christians, and our society as well, is that we tend to over-commit and then we are unable to keep our word. It is disheartening to see this shift prevalent in businesses. They commit to the jobs, then, are not able to produce them on time and thus the standard for business practices is shifting to not expecting them on time. Business people must now factor in lengthy time delays just to compensate for people’s lack of business ethics.

People that tend to over commit sometimes have a pride problem and are people pleasers. They want people to like them so they offer to do things for them, and because they are unable to keep their promises to all they end up not being able to keep their word; thus they are dishonest. In business it is usually greed that tends to cause them to over commit. They want more business and more money, even when they must work from a backlog that was promised timely.

As Christians we need to ask the Lord to forgive us if we are guilty of lying or deceit. It is a very serious matter with God when we lie. (We can read of the incident of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts chapter 5 in the Bible. They both fell dead when they lied to the Holy Spirit.)

The Bible also lists this sin of lying as one that can lead us to hell along with some other grievous ones.Revelation 21:7-8 says, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

We can be overcomers through the power of the Holy Spirit as we seek to be like Jesus. We not only do not want to lie, but we also want to keep our word so that people know we are honest and trustworthy. As Christians, we want to represent our Father well in this life and be honest and free from fabrication and fibbing.

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