“I got what I prayed for” or just the luck of the draw?

[raccoon]

“I prayed that I would be selected Miss Anystate 2009—and I was!” Let’s say 100 young women were in the Miss Anystate contest. One of them HAS to be selected, right? Let’s say all 100 prayed to be selected. Obviously, 99 aren’t going to get what they prayed for.

IMHO, praying that might inspire the candidate to dance better, sing better, whatever, in the competition. It would not affect the judges’ opinions one iota.

A Du’er posted once they’d prayed for a job, that one would just fall into their lap—and it did. Well, good for them. However, out of hundreds or maybe thousands that pray such a thing, it’s bound to happen to somebody, sometime.

It’s like someone who believes they can cast magic spells, or believes they can predict the future. They’ll just remember the times it did “work,” and discount the times it didn’t.

[NOLALady]

1. Similar to the one about the priest and rabbi at a boxing match.

One of the boxers made a sign of the cross before the match. The rabbi wanted to know the meaning of the sign. The priest said it didn't mean a damn thing if he couldn't box.:hi:

[trotsky]

2. There's a name for it: confirmation bias.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Besides, most believers give their god an "out" best illustrated by the saying, "God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is No."

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. Don't you know

God is like a coke machine. Just put your money in and select what you want. At least that's what Oral Roberts used to teach.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. You reminded me of a Betty Bowers quote

If memory serves, it is that "Prayer is the faithful's way of telling God that His plan for us is wrong."

[Occam Bandage]

4. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[MLG Pro]

5. yeah

this is what is wrong with Christians today the fact that many are still going to hell because they are mislead to believe that all you have to do is accept Jesus into your heart and you get to go to heaven, but that is not how it works. You have to do so much more than just that and prayer is not something you do just to get what you want and yet so many do this and it is just like the bible says that many will come to him on judgment day and call out "lord lord" and the lord will respond "I never knew you."

[cosmik debris]

6. Is that any way to treat your children?

To respond "I never knew you"?

Geeze, what an asshole that father would be if there really was a father that mean.

[elshiva]

7. Agreed.

[trotsky]

8. Sad.

I think lots of people who say that sort of thing mean well, but they haven't really thought about the implications. It makes the speaker sound like a little Nelson from the Simpsons, clinging to their god's robes as he banishes a soul, giving a rousing "Ha Ha!" and enjoying every minute of Schadenfreude.

[MLG Pro]

10. ...

When he says "I never knew you" he is saying that those people never came to the lord. The fact that they were worshiping a false idle or a god to fit them selves.

[cosmik debris]

11. So he is like an absentee father

who doesn't even know who his kids are?

Tell me how that's supposed to end?

Like the prodigal son with a fatted calf feast?

Or is somebody gonna get hurt?

Will he be an abusive father punishing his children for their thought crimes?

[MLG Pro]

13. what

is that what i said because i am pretty sure thats not what i said. why don't you read it again.

[cosmik debris]

16. Did you see the little curvy line at the end of the sentence? -- "?"

It is called a question mark. It means I'm asking a question.

The question I am asking is about the nature of your god.

Is your god like an absentee parent who doesn't know who his children are? (That was clearly implied by your previous answer.)

Is your god like an abusive parent who punishes his children for thinking the wrong thoughts?

Please explain how "not knowing" your own children is a good thing.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. Hoo boy

This could get good.

1. Who gets to decide which idols are false since god refuses to show him/herself to us puny mortals?
2. If someone worships a god to "fit them selves" (sic), how is that worse than someone who worships the "correct" god because it will get them into heaven? They're doing that for themselves are they not?
3. If god won't show himself, why should one take it on faith or based on the word of the god's so-called messengers? Especially when so many of god's messengers seem like a bunch of crooks.
4. Why should those who don't believe in your mythical sky-daddy be punished by said sky-daddy for using the brain that sky-daddy's followers claim that the sky-daddy has given to us?
5. Do you believe it is okay to wish harm (ie, hell) on unbelievers? Why does your god wish the same harm on unbelievers? How can you reconcile your "prince of peace" and "loving god" with the obviously violent and demented god of the bible?

[MLG Pro]

15. ...

Exodus 33:18-23
“18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."

19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."”

When a proud and ignorant sinner says "why won't god show himself" he has no understanding of the nature of his creator. If the mere "goodness" of god is manifest to any sinner, he would instantly die. His goodness would spill wrath upon evil man. We can understand that if an earthly judge is a good man, he would be outraged by a vicous murder and must do his best to make sure the wicked criminal is brought to justice. I t is his goodness that makes him passionate for justice to be done.
It is the goodness of god that will make sure every murderer and rapist is brought to justice on judgment day. However, God is so good; so pure and holy, that he is utterly provoked to just retribution by any evil (anger, greed, envy, pride, lust, lying, jealousy, hatred, ect.). The only way a man may live in the presence of a holy God is to be hidden in the rock of Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 10:4). The pure in heart shall see God (see Matthew 5:8), and only way we can become pure is through the righteousness of the savior.
When God “appeared” to certain men of the old testament, he manifested himself in another form, such as a burning bush or the angel of the lord. However, no man has seen the essence of god at any time (see john 1:18). When the bible says that the lord spoke to Moses “face to face” (Exodus 33:11), it is an example of anthropomorphism. When Moses simply gazed at where god had been, his own face so shone with the glory of god that Israel couldn’t even look at him (Exodus 34:29-35),. The Christian the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 4:6)

[moggie]

17. KJV says God showed Moses his "back parts"

Which sounds to me like a euphemism for "butt". Interestingly, according to Jonathan Kirsch (quoted in notes in the Skeptic's Annotated Bible), "The word used in the Hebrew text and translated as "glory" is kabod -- but we are not often told that kabod also may be translated as "liver" and is sometimes used idiomatically to refer to the male reproductive organ".

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. I've read the Bible

I didn't ask for quotes from the Bible. Could you answer the questions? I don't consider the Bible an authority on these things.

Thanks.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

23. Ah, I see you've been TS'ed

Hope you enjoyed your stay in reality - have fun back at the compound.

[elshiva]

25. A false Idle?

Like Eric Idle?

[Darwins Doberman]

14. well if "hell" is defined simply as being apart from god for eternity

then everyone's going to hell, not just the Christians who simply think that faith alone is enough to earn one's spot in heaven. Considering one can't be "close" to an entity that doesn't exist, one will eternally be apart from said entity. So wherever one ends up in the physical sense after kicking will technically be hell.

[knitter4democracy]

18. It's a more immature version of the faith, sure.

That's how my kids pray, and honestly, it's how I pray when I'm super desperate about something.

The reality is, God's going to answer it as He sees fit. That might be by not answering it at all, that might be by waiting until the last second for it to happen, that might be by it being answered right then. It's the job of the Christian to be willing to accept all possibilities with the same grace.

For example, that job one. If someone prays for that job, they might get the job. Good. They might not get the job. Good. No, I'm not saying that it's the best thing in the world, but maybe there was a reason they didn't get the job. I've had that one happen to me personally--prayed for a teaching job I didn't get, and then I found out later it would've been a hellish job, so I was thankful I didn't get that one and got a better one instead. They might not get that job but get a better one they had given up on ever hearing about. Good. They might not get a job for a long time, which really sucks, but God is there through it all.

God's not a Pez dispenser. He's not an ATM. That's not the point.

[raccoon]

24. " Pez dispenser?" Please elucidate. nt

[MikeH]

19. An answer to prayer for me

was the realization, after being serious about the Christian faith for about 15 years in my life, that the Christian faith itself had not been of help to me in enabling me to deal in any practical way with any real-world source of pain, frustration, or unhappiness in my life, or with any major issue. And along with that realization came the realization that I am always free to re-evaluate my faith and my religious belief and practice, and to discard any belief and discontinue any practice that I find unhelpful. That freedom itself can be thought of as being a gift from God (if one believes in God).

With all due respect to people who are Christians and whose faith is real and dear to them, I have for myself become as certain as I am of anything that it was the right and healthy thing for me to part company with the Christian faith (or at least its outward practice), and to absolve myself of any duties and obligations specifically imposed by the faith (such as going to church, praying, etc.), while still holding to duties and obligations incumbent on any good or moral person.

I have been a lot happier after having cut my ties with the Christian faith, along with doing some other things that I have wanted and needed to do, and being in therapy to deal with many of my issues.

With all due respect to people who are atheists, I myself have trouble with accepting atheism. I just cannot bring myself to the belief that there is nothing or nobody higher and greater than ourselves and the natural universe, and no intelligence higher or greater than our own. Or at least I cannot accept any certainty about such a belief, any more than I can accept the certainty that fundamentalist Christians have about the Bible as being God's revealed truth.

I would say that by the process of elimination as much as anything else, I have come to hold a Deistic understanding of God. Perhaps God can be thought of as a general Providence. This would include God having given us reason and our critical facilities, as well as other good things in life. Perhaps prayers can be general thoughts of thanks and appreciation, even if not requests or formal prayers as practiced by Christians or those who adhere to other "revealed" religions.

[knitter4democracy]

20. You have to follow your path.

I think that faith/non-faith, spirituality/non-spirituality is such a personal thing that you have to go as you feel led or feel directed or know is the right way for you to go.

[MikeH]

21. Thanks very much, k4d

:)