Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa

[UndertheOcean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGjJJhHvqY

An Evil , even a historic one, must be at least acknowledged first before healing can start

[NOLALady]

1. Do you mean healing

between Muslims and Africans? Or are you referring to Muslims and Americans of African descent?:shrug:

[UndertheOcean]

2. I mean healing for humanity

we are all one , and we are all responsible for humanities mistakes.

[NOLALady]

3. Yeah but,

where do we begin? Can we include the Spanish Inquisition? What about the Crusades? And we must also include our responsibility to the Native Americans.

Man's inhumanity to Man seems endless.

[UndertheOcean]

4. We begin with everything , the multitude of our evils is no excuse to ignoring them

[Occam Bandage]

6. That's a bit too broad to be useful.

[Azooz]

5. And then read the comments

I see over 900 comments for it, so I'll read it after I comment here - but that high number is significant in itself I think. I do not know theology but I am sure the comments will have lots of Koran and Hadeeth to explain it. The slaves of Mecca (and Arabia) we're a very important part of Islam's history and there names are blessed by all Muslims to this day.

When you want to know the true history of slavery in Africa you can check with the African nation's historians, their sources are a lot more accurate than those produced by non Africans (Arabs included)- African Muslims know that history and are very vocal about it and should be heard first.

What Islam says to Black African slaves, or any other race, is that their Muslim "owners" can go to hell and that they are fully equal to their owners as judged by God. Islam does not have is the "Curse of Ham" and there is no racism in Islam, their lives are just as important to God as their master's and mistreating them is just as offensive to God as mistreating other people and races. The danger of slavery is the danger of the sin of Pride, being a salve master makes that deadly sin easier and is warned of very clearly in Islam.

I do not defend slavery, Islam makes it important to free them, and freeing slaves is part of Islam's traditions and a main requirment to forgive sins and take one closer to heaven or away from hell becuase freeing them pleases God.

Google Islam and slavery, also check on youtube - the Africans can explain it better than Arabs or others, here's one I found and only 5 minutes:

Islam & Slavery-Dr bilal philips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3UkVl01-HY

[Darwins Doberman]

12. No racism in Islam?

I'm doing my best to not laugh out loud...

[Azooz]

13. The Religion of Slaves

That is the name the anceint slave owners of Mecca called Islam, the loved their racisim and died defending it.

There is no racism in Islam, that is a fact, more importantly it is a deadly sin.

If you have any references for the idea that there is racism in Islam it would have to go directly against the Koran itself, that makes it hard to belive or accept. There are Imams of all races that can handle the theology that I can ask for you - there are plenty on youtube that I have got to know and spent hours listening to since this thread was first started.

No racism in Islam?
None at all, not one single drop of it, by the direct order of God to all Muslims.

[Darwins Doberman]

14. wow so much to discuss

First let's go with the whole notion of "god" directing the orders to all Muslims through the Qu'ran. So, some super natural being told a prophet of no particular importance beyond his immediate circle of cult-like followers some holy scripture, of course with no witnesses, and this was the supposed revelation of "god's law" to mankind till the day of judgment or something. Funny how many religions have the exact same story type. Which story am I discussing? Joseph Smith and the Mormons? Moses and the Ten Commandments? Or Mohammed and the Qu'ran. Maybe John and the Book of Revelation. Considering the relative lack of originality inherent in the story of the Qu'ran, nor any evidence to actually prove it's anything beyond the insane rantings of a pedophile bedouin with a penchant for forcing women his armies captured into marriage, I'm not going to put much value in the idea that there are any direct orders to Muslims from any fantasy being.

Secondly, Jews are refered as descendants of "pigs and monkeys" in Islam, strikes me as racist. Or at the very least, wildly offensive and disgusting.

If there is no racism in Islam, then I guess a feeling of ethnic-superiority wasn't a major factor in the genocide commited against Armenians by the Ottoman Turks. Just the evil which religion in general, and Islam specifically seems to provoke. Actually... this isn't THAT radical a theory...

[Azooz]

15. Points

Thats only 3 points, I can go to freepers or LGF and get you a 100 others - all of them have been answered by those with more knowledge than I have, and they will continue to be bought up and answered for a long time to come. My original statement still stands, there is no racism in Islam.

A Muslim must accept whatever race God choses for him or her to be born into as we accept His choice for other people. As a typical human I like my race, as a Muslim I know it was not my choice to be of this race or that one, I thank God for being of my race as I would thank him for being born into any other race.

[cosmik debris]

16. That is so typical of racists

When presented with irrefutable evidence of racism, they still deny it and make excuses.

It would be funny if it were not so sad.

[Azooz]

17. irrefutable evidence ?

I have not seen any irrefutable evidence, I know the Koran and read it often and there is nothing racist in it, this means that there is no irrefutable evidence. Muslims who are racists have no excuses as they go into hell for it, as I said racism is a deadly sin in Islam.

A Muslim's race is chosen by God and could have been born into any other race God choses and all races are equal by His judgment, were is the racism in that?

>>That is so typical of racists
I have to prove that I am not a racist to God, Islam means acceptance and I must accept that as part of my religion, any racism on my part is a weakness and I must, as a Muslim, try to remove it.

[Darwins Doberman]

20. If Islam is so tolerant and open minded

"Lo! those who disbelieve, among the people of the Scripture and idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings."

and this

"Oh Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just two quotes from the Qu'ran, and it didn't take long to find. Please, oh please, tell me how Islam is a religion of open-minded tolerance. And before you start quoting other scripture to me to point out how Christians and Jews and Shintos and other religions have equally offensive things: I'm not a Christian, a Jew. I am an atheist/anti-theist, and have never made the claim that there is no bigotry in other faiths.

So please, defend the above "revelation" to Mohammed (PBUH ). Tell me how progressive Islam is, especially when Imams promote things like female genital mutilation, forbidding women to drive, and saying a raped woman has committed adultery.

[Azooz]

23. Language

Read two or three verses before and after each of those two verses you quoted, that helps explain them. To defend the above "revelation" I could simply quote any of the books that explain the words in the Koran (called Tafseer or Tafsir) there are dozens of them online, but in the end we each have to decide ourselves. Language is important because in English you get very broad translations, and some very bad ones, and those books are important if you do not know enough Arabic to read the Koran yourself.

>>If Islam is so tolerant and open minded
That is the question that Muslims have been ignoring for the last few centuries, Islam is not an organized religion so we each have to decide upon that for ourselves. When you look at things like female genital mutilation you will see that Imams have to fight hard to stop it and have been trying to stop it since Islam started, the practice is much older than Islam and even Christian priests have had trouble with stopping it, but I am glad that modern communications and the internet has finally gotten through to the parents.

[Occam Bandage]

18. If they can be answered, what are the answers?

Saying "Well, that can be answered so it's not true" isn't convincing without those answers.

[Azooz]

22. Points II

First - Refers to the existence of God and does not concern slavery or racism in Islam. Best ask a Rabbi, Priest or Imam about that one because it is not my area.

Secondly, Jews make good Muslims and good Imams, been that way since the start of Islam. The "pigs and monkeys" is a racial insult that they face even as Muslims sometimes, it is not part of Islam and those that use it are sinning against God who created them and asked Muslims to treat them with mercy whenever they are menioned in the Koran.

Third, I did not say there was no genocide or crimes committed by Muslims, I am talking about Islam, criminal and cruel Muslims go to hell with no excuses for going against God's direct orders to live in peace. The Turks did the same to the Arab they conquered, they will have to answer for all they did to God as Arabs and all races will have to.

Another thing is that there is no favored race in Islam, no race gets special treatment, all races are equal in Islam.

[Darwins Doberman]

19. "I thank God for being of my race"

I hear that from the BNP, Jean Marie Le-Pen's right wing movement, the Vlaams Belang, and other ethno-centrist groups. I don't thank anyone for genetics which led me to be caucasian.

The existence of the "dhimmi" status of individuals in countries run by Islam completely undercuts your absolutely insane belief there is no racism in Islam. If there is no racism in Islam, why is there such a preponderance of belief that the world's Jews are lying about the Holocaust? Why is it that groups which preach the disgusting racist rhetoric of exterminating the Jews seem to do so well in democratic elections when Muslims actually get some right to vote?

[Azooz]

21. "as I would thank Him for being born into any other race."

All races are equal in Islam.

"dhimmi" - that is a very nice concept that you should look up without the propaganda. Had Muslims discovered America not one single Native American would have been killed and the legal and social system would have treated them as equals, their property respected, and any Muslims kill one would be executed for it. The word "dhimmi" means that God will ask Muslims about them as His own, they are under His care and protection.

[Darwins Doberman]

25. what a load of bullshit

I'd have an easier time believing in Young Earth Creationism before believing the horseshit you just verbally vomited.

"Had Muslims discovered America not one single Native American would have been killed."

Let's ask the Armenians what they'd think about a Muslim force respecting the lives of innocents. The Indians would be treated as "equals" only if they converted to Islam. And oh yeah, and the "spread" of Islam throughout modern Saudi Arabia was sooooooo peaceful. The violence Mohammed committed is celebrated by Muslims.

Dhimmi is a concept of being considered unequal to Muslims, it's a racist/bigotted belief system.

The idea Islam is anything but an extension of the primitive anti-intelligent monotheisms to come out of the Middle East is more laughable than the nutjob conspiracy theory bullshit one sees on the September 11th forum on this site.

[kwassa]

7. Is someone denying that this slavery took place?

Excuse me if I don't have the patience to sit through an eight-minute video, but this is common knowledge, is it not? I've certainly read about it long ago.

What is your point of posting this video?

Slavery has taken place around the world, in many different cultures, and the institution of slavery has taken many different forms. The naivete of the narrator in the beginning of this clip can only be attributed to his lack of historical education on this subject. Islamic slavery is not news.

[UndertheOcean]

8. Well , there are many Muslims and muslim apologists who are not aware

of this issue.

[kwassa]

9. How do you define a Muslim apologist?

and what are they apologizing for?

[Occam Bandage]

10. An apologist does not apologize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics

[kwassa]

11. My question goes unanswered.

Whilst my joke does.

[conscious evolution]

24. I have found that

those who go on about slavery and how 'its still going on in Africa' are almost always rascist bigots trying to defend there views.
IMO,It ranks up there with "I'm not rascist,but...."

I would bet that the so called Muslim slave owners/traders are like a lot of the so called christians in this country.In name only because it suits their purpose and not because of any true belief in the actual teachings of their religon.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Azooz]

27. A new alJazeera show on the subject

A week after I wrote my reply, alJazeera broadcast a related show. About one third of the slaves bought to America were Muslim so the subject is covered to.

Islam in America: The American Crescent - 19 Oct 08 - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxcCQ5X0ovw&feature=related

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDMGrVTsSEQ

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TEqU750YO0&feature=related

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYXX3hXS_S8&feature=related

Part two will be shown a few days from now on alJazeera, you can look it up if interested.


>>An Evil , even a historic one, must be at least acknowledged first before healing can start
I agree, but I'll take from another DU thread, a song this time :)

A Land Called Paradise (Muslim-Americans express their views about America)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x219645

One with slave ancestors, and the one who is Not a convert, and others - the healing started a while back, but still a way to go.