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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:05 PM
Original message
Disruptors and Religion Scams
Twice in the last week I have encountered instances of individuals with resumes that seem oddly inflated, the person claiming among other things to be "Archbishop" in a "church" which seems to exist primarily as a website. The claim in both cases seems to be part of a larger effort to create an aura of credibility for activities that actually disrupt resistance

I'll post the first example here and then, in a subsequent reply to this post, will discuss the second example

The first one was an email:

THE PATRIOTS TOUR HITS THE TRIANGLE WITH A MESSAGE OF UNITY AND PEACE

Chapel Hill, NC - Dr. Robert Bowman, former Director of the Strategic Defense Initiative (aka "Star Wars"), under Presidents Ford and Carter, and called "the best public speaker in the country," (LA Times) is bringing The Patriots Tour to Chapel Hill and Raleigh, North Carolina. Dr. Bowman will be speaking on Friday, June 20, at the Church of Reconciliation ... and on Saturday, June 21, at the Community United Church ... This tour is being sponsored by the Institute for Space and Security Studies, the Triangle Chapter of Veteran's for Peace, and the Coalition for the Constitution. These events are free and open to the public. Seating is limited, however, so please RSVP ...


Bowman may be familiar to some of you, due to the 9/11 conspiracy theories he pushed in the course of his "congressional campaign."

The first eye-catching oddity in the email is that the Strategic Defense Initiative was a Reagan-era proposal, non-existent during the Presidencies of Ford and Carter. Further searching on the name Robert Bowman leads to "biographies" such as the following

Dr. Bob Bowman , Lt. Col., USAF, ret. is President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies, Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation, and retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church. The recipient of the Eisenhower Medal, the George F. Kennan Peace Prize, the President's Medal of Veterans for Peace, the Republic Aviation Airpower Award, the Society of American Military Engineers' ROTC Medal of Merit (twice), the Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters, and numerous other awards, he is one of the country's foremost authorities on national security. Dr. Bowman spent several years as an unpaid "People's Lobbyist" to Congress. Colonel Bowman flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam and directed all the SDI ("Star Wars") programs under Presidents Ford and Carter. He has been an executive in both government and industry, and has chaired eight major international conferences. Professor Bowman taught at five colleges and universities, serving as Department Head and Assistant Dean. His Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from the California Institute of Technology. He has lectured at the National War College, the United Nations, Congressional Caucuses, the Academies of Science of six nations, and the House of Lords ...

http://www.thepatriots.us/


The very impressive sounding claims are coupled with a certain vagueness and some inconsistencies. For example, the "Eisenhower Prize" is not further specified -- and Bowman seems not to have received the only Eisenhower Prize I can locate. Nor are the "eight major international conferences" specified, nor are the five colleges and universities, where Bowman was supposedly "Department Head and Assistant Dean." Moreover, "Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering" is a very odd Ph.D. subject

And several of the titles seem self-conferred: for example, "Institute for Space and Security Studies" seems to be Bowman's own creation, of which he apparently made himself President; and similarly "Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church" appears to be a title awarded by himself

If one visits Bowman's website Bowman 2006 http://www.rmbowman.com/ (apparently associated with his Presidential or Congressional campaign), one finds that the "Bowman 2008 : Congressional Campaign Home Page" link sends one to a webpage describing the "tour" associated with the email above; one also finds that the "United Catholic Church : Home Page" is listed among "Home Pages We Host," as is the "Institute for Space and Security Studies" newsletter. The "church" website discloses:

The United Catholic Church was founded and incorporated in the state of Florida in 1996 by Bishop Robert Bowman ...
http://www.united-catholic-church.org/ABOUT%20US/AU%20Index.htm


The reason for regarding such activities as disruptive, is simply that fictions obstruct clear activist thinking. The combined doctrines of the alleged "United Catholic Church" do not actually reflect the views of any particular group and hence offers no real political or sociological insights: instead, it seems to be a hodgepodge crafted to appeal in part to groups with different (and inconsistent) views












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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds a bit like a con to me
And yes, I'd be a bit hesitant to believe a fellow has real creds if they are part of an online sect that appears to have been founded only a few years ago. I like a little more history behind it, thank you. Sort of reminds me of the mail-in preacher forms you can get--my brother in law has one so he can perform weddings. The philosophy of the "church" that "ordained" him appears to be "believe whatever you want and send in $29.95" or something like that. Not that I'm against my brother in law doing this, as he doesn't charge for his services, just marries folks as a favor.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I ignored it as a con. But after encountering the second instance a week later
(see post downthread), I began to wonder whether this tactic might be widespread -- and, if so, what interests it might actually serve
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Example #2
The second example is based on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x5474

In this case, the subject of interest is "Leonardo Marin-Saavedra," who apparently claims to have been born in Colombia and to have lived in Canada since approximately 1967. Again, a number of vague academic credentials are apparently claimed (philosophy, theology, literature, drama ...). Of interest here are multiple claims of religious credentials: he is Primate of the "Reform Catholic Venezuelan Church" and also Archbishop of the "Latin American Anglican Church," which it seems he claims he founded. According to another report (in 2003), he "officiates" at yet another non-Catholic "Catholic" church in Los Angeles (which seems a rather long commute from a Canadian home). He deserves a bit more attention than the Miami Herald recently bestowed, when identifying him as the head of an allegedly pro-Chavez church in Venezuela, which is allegedly being funded by Chavez in order to undermine the Roman Catholic Church in Venezuela

Again one reason for regarding such activities as disruptive, is simply that fictions obstruct clear activist thinking. Whether or not one likes the Catholic Church in Venezuela, and whether or not one likes Chavez, it is impossible to reason clearly about religion or politics in Venezuela, if one takes as the point of reference a fellow, living in Canada, who claims to be an "Archbishop" in several distinct Latin American churches which probably exist only as websites. In this case, moreover, "Leonardo Marin-Saavedra"'s interviews with the press appear to be serving particular reactionary ends, though he might believe he is merely playing a clever joke on everyone
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. All it takes is a little charisma and a modest talent for fiction
and the joke's on anybody who pays good money to hear one of these clowns lecture.

Everything about them has been made out of thin air and chutzpah. Their sole purpose in life is to extract money from chumps with the least personal effort possible.

This guy is clumsier than most of them with his SDI claim. Usually, the names they name are just far enough away from reality to make looking them up difficult. To pad his resume by assigning himself the head of a program that wouldn't exist for nearly a decade after Ford took office shows he's careless and arrogant.

These guys invariably trip themselves up when their reach exceeds their grasp and they try for spots on local TV news programs or they convince themselves they're not only fooling a few chumps but they're fooling all of us.

My own prediction is that Bowman's not going to last very long.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wikipedia might be more accurate in this case
Wikipedia seems to jive with my recollection,
don't know why he's using a garbled cv:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Bowman

Robert M. Bowman (born 1934) was a former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations, and a former United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions. He holds a Ph.D. in Aeronautics from the California Institute of Technology.

<snip>

Despite his involvement with space programs and defense, he emerged as an early public critic of the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI, also aka "Star Wars") during the Ronald Reagan administration. On The MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour, he called it "the ultimate military lunacy, easily overwhelmed and vulnerable".<3> Bowman founded the Institute for Space and Security Studies, and its publication Space & Security News (1983) (ISSN 1071-2569), and authored two books on the subject of SDI. He is also a critic of an outgrowth of the SDI program, the Bush administration's proposed National Missile Defense.<4>

<snip>

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I would have filed Bowman under "curiosities" -- except that the Saavedra story
has a surprising number of parallels:

Both apparently claim to belong to non-hierarchical "Catholic" churches, which both apparently founded, and in both have been "Archbishops," with both claiming some "apostolic succession." The "Archbishop" credentials and the theologies of the supposed "churches" seem designed according to the same formula

Both seem to have vaguely padded their resumes, and both seem to have conservative media connections: Bowman, for example, has ties to rightwing religious broadcasting ("... appeared on many Christian radio and TV talk shows, including the 700 Club ... http://www.rmbowman.com/ssn/bio2001.htm ), while the alleged Canadian Saavedra was just featured in a Chavez-bashing Miami news story about a supposed "Reform Catholic Venezuelan Church"

And both seem to do a lot of travel: Bowman for his odd "patriots tour" and Saavedra for his odd collection of "church" affiliations. So, I find it natural to wonder who is bank-rolling the travel
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Jogging my memory...
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 04:55 PM by bananas
I remember Bowman was an outspoken and credible critic of SDI,
here's two articles from the time:


A Step Closer to Star Wars
Monday, Dec. 12, 1983
By KURT ANDERSEN

<snip>

Even if the antimissile space lasers could be coaxed into operation, critics say, their delicacy would make them easy to foil or destroy. One superpower's directed-energy weapons could easily sizzle those of the enemy; even today's off-the-shelf ASAT weapons could ravage the battle stations. The beams' effects could be mitigated if a targeted ICBM simply rotated, cutting short the time a laser would have to burn a hole in any one spot. Missile skins can be hardened and made reflective. A flock of dummy ICBMs might confuse frantic laser commanders. Says former Lieut. Colonel Robert Bowman, who helped run advanced space-programs development for the Air Force: "No one seems to have explained to the President the great vulnerability of these systems, nor the many countermeasures available to render them useless." Bowman, Ruina, Rathjens, Panofsky and M.I.T. Physicist Kosta Tsipis belong to a small group of arms experts who have been speaking out against Reagan's space-weapons program and supplying technical information to public interest groups and political leaders.

Whatever the problems, the Soviets are surely refining their ASAT technology and developing laser weapons. For the Reagan Administration, that is reason enough to pursue comparable research and development. M.I.T. Professor Stephen Meyer, a Soviet-defense expert, thinks the U.S. technology "needs slow, orderly development." Bowman would continue the Government's modest, undramatic research program for "the legitimate purpose of preventing technological surprise" and developing "countermeasures . . . to negate any Star Wars system the Soviets may try to put up."

<snip>

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921402-3,00.html



Newsgroups: net.tv.da, net.politics
From: pet...@utcsrgv.UUCP (Peter Rowley)
Date: Wed, 30-Nov-83 21:54:04 EST
Local: Wed, Nov 30 1983 9:54 pm
Subject: High-Frontier, What Scientists Can Do

Regarding the suggestion to refuse funding from military (e.g. ARPA) sources:

<snip>

From the Globe & Mail (Toronto, Canada) Sat. Nov. 26, 1983:
"BILLIONS TO BE SPENT FOR LASERS IN SPACE, by Wallace Immen"
Pres. R. Reagan will announce within 2-3 wks a massive spending program to
develop the arsenal of exotic space weapons he suggested in March as a means
of countering Soviet missiles, U.S. gov't sources say. The decision would
appear to dampen prospects for a permanent U.S. space station and would
crush plans for a new program of planetary exploration.

<snip>

Robert Bowman, a retired USAF space weapons planner who now heads the
Institute for Space and Security Studies in Washington D.C. of the new systems is the least problem and that the new weapon systems
envisaged] "have staggering technical problems" "All violate one or more
existing treaties. All are extremely vulnerable. All are subject to a
variety of countermeasures. All could be made impotent by alternative
offensive missiles and therefore would be likely to reignite the numerical
arms race in offensive weapons."

<snip>

http://groups.google.com/group/net.tv.da/browse_thread/thread/8ce36073dba8c1b2/bd3ab6a1034c735b?lnk=st&q=#bd3ab6a1034c735b


He clarifies the issues you raised on that website you gave: http://www.thepatriots.us/pg_02_Bowman_03.html
He is who he claims to be.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The parallel church stories are my primary interest in this thread

Without that, as I said, I should have regarded Bowman as a mere curiosity. With it, I begin to wonder about other evidence of resume packing. And some of Bowman's comments are clearly bunk:

"I'm surprised that no one questioned my having directed all the 'Star Wars' programs under Presidents Ford and Carter ... I directed all the 'Star Wars' programs from 1976 to 1978 ... I even used the term 'Star Wars' in a secret report I wrote in 1977 ... I have copies of the Congressional Record from 1982 ... in which Senator Proxmire and Congressman Moakley reprinted unclassified articles of mine in which I used the term 'Star Wars' ... SDI didn't start until I had been retired for six years!"

In your link, motivated by criticisms of his earlier claims, Bowman wants to distinguish between SDI and 'Star Wars,' claiming he "directed .. the 'Star Wars' programs under .. Ford and Carter." But of course, 'Star Wars' is essentially a synonym for SDI. Since the movie Star Wars was released in 1977, it's possible he did use "the term 'Star Wars' in a secret report" -- though it's completely unverifiable, and one would want to know more about that report before rendering a judgment on the significance of that claim. However, the movie came out during Carter's administration, not Ford's, so nobody would have been calling anything Star Wars during Ford's administration. Since the Congressional Record runs to hundreds of pages a day, and easy electronic searching begins for the 1983 text, the Congressional Record claim is essentially unverifiable, without undertaking a needle-in-haystack search for a needle that may not be there. Twenty-five years after SDI was announced, there has been adequate time for everyone to ask who coined the term 'Star Wars' -- and I don't find anybody except Bowman who thinks Bowman coined the phrase

This is all minor, but it smells of misrepresentation. More importantly, one might examine his busy-ness (the Reform Party campaigns, the bogus church, the "Patriot Tour" which seems intended to produce nothing more productive than emotional responses) and then must wonder exactly what Bowman actually thinks he's doing: my conclusion is that he's diverting people from productive organizing into Bowman-centered nonsense
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. A lot of people were calling real-life space weapons "Star Wars" in 1977
Here's one example from Time Magazine:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915613,00.html

Targeting a Hunter-Killer
Monday, Oct. 17, 1977

Even as the SALT talks inch toward the elusive goal of limiting the arms race, weapons designers are creating ever newer generations of lethal hardware.

Last week Defense Secretary Harold Brown confirmed what defense experts have long suspected: the Soviets have developed a "hunter-killer" satellite, straight from Star Wars, that can track down orbiting U.S. spacecraft — and wipe them out. Said Brown: "The Soviets have an operational capability" to destroy "some" American satellites and have thus raised at least the possibility of a Soviet-U.S. space war. Added Brown: "That is somewhat troublesome."

<snip>



So no, Bowman's statement wasn't "bunk".

Also, the Star Wars movie was widely discussed and heavily promoted in 1976, maybe you don't remember:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22star+wars%22&btnG=Search+Archives&num=10&lr=&as_ldate=1976&as_hdate=1976

From 'American Graffiti' To Outer Space
$3.95 - New York Times - Sep 12, 1976
scope, "Star Wars" is not so much a departure for Lucas as it is a variation n a ... I Want 'Star Wars' to make them think of the things that could happen. ...
Related web pages

Coping Attractions: Shocks, Gimmicks, Sequels; A Preview Of New Films
$3.95 - New York Times - Aug 29, 1976
"Star Wars" and "The! Seven-Percent Solution"-I'i would gamble the price of ad-I mission on the following: I "Apocalypse Now," direct-I ed by Franci'.; ...
Noteworthy Movies on the 1976-77 Schedule - New York Times ($3.95)
All 2 related - Related web pages

The Advocate (Newspaper) - June 21, 1976, Newark, Ohio
Subscription - Advocate, The - NewspaperArchie - Jun 21, 1976
Gary Kurtz, had been developing "Star Wars" since 1971. Lucas had another picture commitment with Universal, which, however, wanted no part of "Star Wars. ...
Related web pages

At the Movies
$3.95 - New York Times - Nov 26, 1976
Guy Flatley CAROL KANE is on her way to a funeral, and she couldn't be happier. The petite, 24-yearold actress, who won an Oscar nomination last year for ...
Related web pages

Valley Morning Star (Newspaper) - October 3, 1976, Harlingen, Texas
Subscription - Valley Morning Star - NewspaperArchie - Oct 3, 1976
'Star Wars' takes place in another galaxy in an- other time. The hero is 18 years the heroine is and Alec Guinness portrays the father Figure. ...
Related web pages

The Lincoln Star (Newspaper) - May 24, 1976, Lincoln, Nebraska
Subscription - The Lincoln Star - NewspaperArchive - May 24, 1976
... undertaken in the fall as the new buildup is being constructed fisher In 'Star Wars' Hollywood 'I PIi Came Fisher daughter of Debbie Reynolds and Eddie ...
Related web pages

Times Recorder (Newspaper) - March 15, 1976, Zanesville, Ohio
Subscription - Times Recorder, The - NewspaperArchie - Mar 15, 1976
Carrie's soon starring in a science- fiction movie "Star Wars" which isn't but could be the title of the backstage battles of several B'way shows. ...
Related web pages

Lima News, The (Newspaper) - March 12, 1976, Lima, Ohio
Subscription - Lima News - NewspaperArchie - Mar 12, 1976
... Hackett Carrie s soon starring in a science-fiction movie "Star Wars" which isn t but could be the title of the backstage battles of several B'way shows ...
Related web pages

Winnipeg Free Press (Newspaper) - October 8, 1976, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Subscription - Winnipeg Free Press - NewspaperArchie - Oct 8, 1976
Eight of Its sound stages have been humming with Star Wars, a big-budget science fiction film being made by 20th Century-Fox. This will be followed by Ken ...
Related web pages



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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Your TIME link is from the Carter era, after the release of "Star Wars"
And, of course, a TIME scare piece, claiming a Soviet weapon was "straight from Star Wars" is not the same thing as identifying a US military program by the name "Star Wars." Nor do standard promo pieces for a forthcoming movie suggest that any US military program was known by the name "Star Wars" in 1976 -- in fact, your blurbs suggest quite a different take: "Star Wars" as a shorthand for "backstage battles of several B'way shows"

I continue to consider Bowman's discussion highly misleading, but consider this particular point relatively minor and not worth long discussion
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Ok then, I'll just clarify a few things and be done with this thread.
There was no military program with the official name "Star Wars", even under Reagan.
The US and other countries were working on space weaponry long before Reagan.
Before the Star Wars movie came out, people would say "Wow! These are real-life Star Trek weapons!!!"
After the Star Wars movie came out, people would say "Wow! These are real-life Star Wars weapons!!!"
That's what I meant when I said people were calling it Star Wars back then.
It's not surprising that Bowman would've called it Star Wars too.

Since you seem unaware that the US was working on these kinds of weapons during the 60s and 70s,
this Air Force web page has some information:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au-18/au18003f.htm

<snip>

Antisatellite Weapons. Ford's administration had rekindled large-scale ASAT weapon research although considerable work had been done from the early 1970s under the Missile and Space Defense Program. Research centered on the miniature homing vehicle (MHV) with nonnuclear kill capability. In September 1977, Vought contracted to build the MHV. The MHV's intercept sequence began with launch aboard a ground-launched booster or from a high-altitude aircraft. The MHV maneuvered to the calculated vicinity of the target, where its sensors locked on and tracked the target. The MHV then homed in on the target and destroyed it via collision.(180)

The Air Force dropped the ground-launched option which used a modified Minuteman III ICBM in favor of air-launch from an F-15 fighter. The air-launched booster was a Boeing short-range attack missile first stage and a Vought Altair III second stage. Air-launch provided the advantages of flexibility, mobility, and "more attacks per day." MHV's biggest advantage over the old Program 437 and 505 systems was that it did not have to wait for the target to come to it.

<snip>

Directed Energy Weapons. Since the late 1960s, the services and ARPA, now called the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), did considerable work on directed energy weapons (DEW), which are lasers and particle beams. However, only towards the end of Ford's tenure did such exotic technologies begin to show promise as weapons. The laser blinding incidents in 1975 (previously mentioned) showed that the Soviets were moving in this direction and had the potential for building a usable system. This increased US interest in this type of system, but considerable controversy existed over the direction of any project involving DEW and the level of funding to be given to these programs.(185)

<snip>


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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Just to clarify: when folk are unnecessarily vague, it's question-asking time
He used to say he had been Director of Advanced Space Programs Development in the Space Division at the Air Force Institute of Technology and an associate dean at AFIT. Your Wikipedia link ("Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations") suggests that might be what he means when he said he "directed all the SDI ('Star Wars') programs under Presidents Ford and Carter" -- though the webpage has apparently been edited since I started this thread, and the site now contains a "clarification" that he doesn't use "Star Wars" as a synonym for SDI, although his website did treat them as synonyms when I cut-n-pasted on Monday 30 June 2008

The "George F. Kennan Peace Prize" sounds very impressive, and it is certainly very touching that he regards it as one of "the most meaningful" awards he has received -- but, of course, it would be better if only he could remember who gave it to him and when

There's no real point in multiplying instances. As I've indicated before, it's the odd and seemingly bogus self-appointment as "Archbishop" to a church that may exist primarily (or even only?) as a website that really interests me in this thread
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. The only link here
is to ‘Disruptors and Religion Scams’.

Have been hearing a lot lately about 'The Family' also known as 'The Fellowship'.

Perhaps you know all about them…but to an outsider like myself they were an unpleasant revelation.

“The Fellowship organizes the National Prayer Breakfast, held each year on the first Thursday of February in Washington, D.C.. First held in 1953, the event is now attended by over 3,400 guests including dignitaries from many nations. The President of the United States typically makes an address at the breakfast. The event is officially hosted by members of Congress. Democrats and Republicans serve on the organizing committee, and leadership alternates each year between the House and the Senate.” Wikipedia


So you have an (ostensibly) Christian semi secret organization that “organizes the National Prayer Breakfast” and the invitations go out on Congressional Letterhead !?

How’s that separation of Church and State thing working out? ;-)


“Their primary activity is to develop small support groups for members of Congress, businesspersons, and anyone else who is interested in the teachings of Jesus. Prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense. They have connections to the CIA. <8>The Fellowship maintains a three-story, 7,914-square-foot red brick townhouse at 133 C Street in Washington, D.C., near the United States Capitol. The townhouse used to be a convent. As many as six members of Congress, Democratic and Republican, live here while in Washington.”Wikipedia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29

http://jeffsharlet.blogspot.com/2008/02/blog-post.html


http://www.therevealer.org/archives/timely_003034.php


http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060559799

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2894588






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