21% of atheists and 55% of agnostics believe in god

[bananas]

8% of atheists and 17% of agnostics are absolutely certain god exists:

<snip>

It found that 92 percent of Americans believe in God or a universal spirit, with 71 percent of those surveyed saying they were “absolutely certain” on this score.

Curiously, more than one fifth — 21 percent — of those who counted themselves as atheists said they believed in God while eight percent expressed absolute certainty about this state of affairs.

<snip>

Among U.S. agnostics, 55 percent professed a belief in God and 17 percent were absolutely certain.

<snip>

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/23/some-us-atheists-seem-to-be-confused-pew-survey-shows/

75% of religious Americans are non-exclusive:

<snip>

But most Americans -- even many of the most religiously conservative -- have a non-exclusive attitude toward other faiths. Seventy percent of those affiliated with a religion believe that many religions, not just their own, can lead to eternal salvation. Just about one-quarter believe there is only one true way to interpret their own religion's teachings.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/23/AR2008062300813.html

The Pew report is at http://pewresearch.org/pubs/876/religion-america-part-two

edit to add: :popcorn:

[notesdev]

1. 21% of atheists and 55% of agnostics

couldn't properly define the term "atheist" and "agnostic" respectively.

let's hear it for the dumbing down of America!

[Mythsaje]

2. And then there's me, who JUST DOESN'T CARE!

God, no God...people are more important than deities. People and dogs. And cats. And wildlife. And yogurt. Particularly the frozen kind. And cheese cultures. ALL more important than God.

[CrispyQ]

5. You forgot chocolate,

:9

[Mythsaje]

7. Chocolate's not alive.

But also perhaps more important than God.

[Renew Deal]

10. Fozen yogurt is alive?

:shrug:

[hendo]

51. I object

a good cheese curd is better than a person any day.

and I personally like that God character

[mainegreen]

3. Another Athiests for God!

:rofl:

I want that as a bumper sticker.
That'll make 'em think!

[mike_c]

4. oh for pete's sake....

That. Is. All.

[nxylas]

6. Who are these 8% of atheists who are certain God exists?

And do they even know what an atheist is?

[Kitty Herder]

42. Is it possible they didn't understand the question?

:crazy: :wtf:

[JerseygirlCT]

8. As to the second point, I've been saying that's the case

for years, though people prefer to believe the loud minority of exclusivists represents all of Christianity.

[unpossibles]

9. this poll is by the Pew Report

which was founded as a Conservative "non partisan" think tank. I doubt their numbers quite a bit.

[TZ]

15. Not conservative no. Pew is very reputable

I have a relative that does research with Pew..trust me..he's NOT a conservative..I think this is less a reflection of Pew's methods but more a illustration of how little americans really understand or identify with religious labels.
I suspect the God believing "atheists" don't truly understand or misidentified themselves.

[unpossibles]

19. maybe not as much as they used to be - I honestly don't know

but this is from their wiki:
The Trusts, a single entity, is the successor to, and sole beneficiary of, seven charitable funds established between 1948 and 1979 by the adult children of Sun Oil Company founder Joseph N. Pew and his wife, Mary Anderson Pew. The four co-founders were J. Howard Pew, Mary Ethel Pew, Joseph N. Pew, Jr., and Mabel Pew Myrin. The Trusts is based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, with an office in Washington, D.C..

Joseph Pew and his heirs were politically conservative. The J. Howard Pew Freedom Trust had as its mission to "acquaint the American people with 'the evils of bureaucracy' and 'the values of a free market' and 'to inform our people of the struggle, persecution, hardship, sacrifice and death by which freedom of the individual was won.'" Joseph N. Pew, Jr. called Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, "a gigantic scheme to raze U.S businesses to a dead level and debase the citizenry into a mass of ballot-casting serfs."<2>

Early beneficiaries included a cancer research institute, a museum, higher education, the American Red Cross, and historically black colleges. For many years, the Trusts tended to fund charities and conservative causes located in Philadelphia.

In 2004, the Pew Trusts changed from a foundation into a nonprofit. It can now raise funds freely and devote up to 5% of its budget to lobbying the public sector.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pew_Charitable_Trusts

[TZ]

21. None of these think tanks are QUITE as liberal or conservative as some believe

My relative has a good friend who is also a self described "raging moderate" democrat who has appeared on the Colbert Report/Daily Show several times and he is currently employed by AEI..one of the most often self described "conservative" think tanks.
I am probably much more familiar with these groups than most Americans I think and its not "black and white" on what they research and the biases.
I do think this is indicative of a flawed poll..probably worded in a bad manner. You would be surprised how much the wording of questions affects the poll numbers.

[rexcat]

41. They might not be "conservative"....

but they can and have biased results in the past by how they word the questions. The group does have a decided slant toward religion so I am a little more than skeptical on any results from their surveys.

If someone says they are an atheist and then say they believe in "god" there has to be something wrong with the polling. The whole thing is counterintutive. I would also like to see what "n" equals for the how many took the survey and the sub-set of people who identified themselves as atheits. Seeing the survey questions would also be nice and a breakdown of the who said what!

on edit...

It would also be nice to see the methods used. For the most part I have never seen this group publish results that did not favor religious belief.

[Zebedeo]

11. And to think

that these are just the ones who admit it. Add the number of atheists and agnostics who actually believe in God but would not admit it to the pollster, and you have a supermajority of atheists and agnostics believing in God.

Quite an interesting finding.

[TZ]

16. you are making assumptions

The simplest explanation here is MISIDENTIFICATION on the poll. As stated above, I have a relative who does this kind of research and I think 8% misindentification wouldn't be outrageous.
I have NEVER met anyone who identifies as an atheist or agnostic and says "I know there is a God".
There are MANY reasons for this poll to be skewed. Polls are very limited in some ways.
If you don't understand that..then you DID NOT pay attention to the last two presidential elections.

[Zebedeo]

36. 8% misidentification

still yields 55% - 8% = 47% of agnostics admitting that they believe in God.

[John Gauger]

23. That's a nice little fantasy you've got there.

Atheists do not believe in god. Those people in the above poll are morons. I have often wondered what percentage of people that respond to polls don't actually understand all of the words in the question. Well, we can see that a significant number of people in this poll didn't know what all the words meant. I would venture to guess that half of those who did not know those words did not self-identify as one or the other, so double the number of "atheists" and "agnostics" who claimed to believe in god and you should get an idea of how many respondents didn't understand those two words.

Anyhow, I like where you pulled that "supermajority" claim out of your ass. That's good arguing. :thumbsup:

We don't believe in your god. In fact, we think your god is laughable. Your god is just as ridiculous as any god dreamed up by the Muslims, the Hindus, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Vikings, or any of the Stone Age tribes of America, Africa, or the South Pacific. We don't secretly believe in your god, we're secretly laughing at the idea of him.

[Evoman]

33. Or not so secretly laugh at the idea of him.

I'm so tired of religion.

[Zebedeo]

37. Speak for yourself, Mr. Gauger

Perhaps YOU genuinely do not believe in God, but between one-fifth and one-half of your group admits to believing in God.

And let's be honest: I think you would concede that there are some people out there who profess to be atheists or agnostics, but who really, secretly, in the back of their minds, believe that God exists. You probably think that the number of people falling into this category is less than what I think it is. But you surely admit that there are many self-professed atheists and agnostics who are closet believers. Adding these people in to the percentage that admit that they believe in God (21% to 55%), and yes, I think it is fair to say that it is more than a bare majority of atheists/agnostics who believe in God.

As for your last paragraph, methinks thou dost protest too much. If you really thought that God didn't exist, what would be the point of mocking or "laughing" at Him?

[John Gauger]

39. Some people?

Sure, this world is full of intellectually bankrupt cretinous charlatans. Plenty of people might claim to be atheists but in actuality believe in a god that they find unpalatable. But they're not really atheists. They're lying. Nobody who admits to believing in god is really an atheist. They are either lying about being an atheist, or they don't know what the word means.

You can try and goad me into anger with accusing me of believing in your farcical god, but I am secure in lack of believe. Your god is just as laughable as all the other gods proposed by all the other superstitious people over the millennia. Believe it or not, the reason I'm laughing at you is that I find you hilarious.

[Zebedeo]

50. "But they're not really Scotsmen"

I mean "But they're not really atheists."

I see.

[John Gauger]

52. Oh, Zeb. You're always good for a laugh.

Lack of belief in god is the sine qua non of atheism. If you believe in god, you aren't an atheist. You can call yourself an atheist, but if you believe in god you aren't one. I can call myself a Scot, but if I'm born in Lyon from a long line of Frenchmen, a Scot can perfectly legitimately say that I am not a Scot.

[uberllama42]

54. The Scotsman fallacy requires a change in definition

to exclude people who behave badly. JG and I have both had the same definition of atheism for a long time, and it is just as he described it. We're not trying to distance ourselves from some group because they lie or they're bigoted or they rape people, or anything like that. We have no emotional investment in being part of some group with these poll respondents, or in being separate from them.

Let's use the stamp-collecting analogy. If a group of people all identify themselves by some name that indicates they do not collect anything as a hobby (say, 'non-collectors'), they don't necessarily belong to a cohesive group. There's no reason why these folks have to have any attachment to each other. If a subset of respondents later indicate that they are avid soccer fans who collect FIFA World Cup memorabilia, they have not admitted to secretly harboring a penchant for collecting things. They have merely contradicted themselves. True non-collectors would not be pulling a "no true Scotsman" by claiming that the soccer fans were by definition not part of their category. There is no attempt to absolve non-collectors as a group (remember, they can't really be considered a group to begin with) for some perceived crimes by soccer hooligans.

[uberllama42]

40. Which do you think is greater-

the number of people who believe in God but deny it, or the number who pretend to believe in God but are really atheists? How many seminary students, clergy, prominent laypeople, and especially politicians do you think feign belief in order to be socially acceptable?

Remember, the only open atheist in Congress outed himself only after sitting on 20+ years of inncumbency in a very blue district. There is tremendous pressure in public life to believe in God. How many situations are there in which people are pressured not to believe in God? The number must be tiny compared to the opposite situation.

Just based on demographic distribution, a small percentage of avowed theists being closeted atheists is going to be larger than half of supposed atheists actually believing in God.

[Zebedeo]

44. If you have evidence of such a phenomenon,

by all means share it. Right now we are discussing the results of a poll showing that a whole lot of people who profess to be atheists or agnostics actually believe in God. And it's not just a few people on the fringes. More than one-fifth of self-professed atheists and more than HALF of self-professed agnostics ADMIT to believing in God.

If you are aware of some similar poll results that suggest that a lot of self-professed theists are closet atheists, please disclose such results.

[charlie]

45. I'm gay

I am, except the mere thought of romancing a man squicks me right down to my toes. I just like the social opprobrium that comes with it. The potential for derision, harassment, and worse in every encounter is thrilling. The uncertainty of my standing with other people gives me a frisson you wouldn't believe.

But don't think you can make eyes and put the moves on me, I'll pop you upside the head. And don't call me a heterosexual, I'll whap you upside the other. I'm gay. Gay, gay, gay.

You can have the belief-professing clowns who have way too much access to the Lifetime channel and not enough to a dictionary. Take 'em, gratis. Just give up the 5% who don't think there's a God.

Don't sweat the net increase on our side. Your's will still have an unassailable majority.

[cyborg_jim]

46. The clue train is still waiting for you to board

More than one-fifth of self-professed atheists and more than HALF of self-professed agnostics ADMIT to believing in God.

Right... and why are they "admitting" this fact to a pollster? Since you phrase it in such a way as it should be shameful WHY ARE THEY ADMITTING IT TO A POLLSTER?

I'm expecting too much for some logical thoughts here aren't I? Please explain to me the reason someone would have to say to a pollster, "I'm an atheist who believes in god!" in any meaningful fashion.

[Zebedeo]

47. Not shameful,

just revealing. I am very pleased that such a high proportion of atheists and agnostics actually believe in God. It is really a wonderful thing. It appears that you find it embarrassing, and I can understand that. These findings expose a secret about atheism that you would probably rather keep under wraps, for obvious reasons.

To answer your question about why someone would profess to be atheist and also admit to believing in God to the same pollster - The poll respondents were put into the atheist category based on their answer to a preliminary question, and that they were then asked about their beliefs, and they responded that they believe in God.

If you read the study methodology, you will see that "the respondent was asked screening questions to verify his or her religious affiliation." Then the various questions about religious belief were asked.

I suspect that many atheists are merely rebelling against God when they profess atheism, but when pressed, many of them will admit that they believe God exists. I also suspect that the angriest atheists fall disproportionately into the category of God-believing atheists. After all, if they really believed that God is entirely non-existent, would they be so angry at Him?

[cyborg_jim]

59. Nope

It appears that you find it embarrassing, and I can understand that.

No, I find it stupid.

The poll respondents were put into the atheist category based on their answer to a preliminary question, and that they were then asked about their beliefs, and they responded that they believe in God.

I've looked but I cannot find the exact wording nor any mention of whether or not any terms were explained that the person may be familiar with, i.e. whether or not those who self-identified as atheists actually understood its meaning. In other words there is insufficient data on this point because it just doesn't say in the report.

After all, if they really believed that God is entirely non-existent, would they be so angry at Him?

So I can't be angry about Scientology without having to curse thetans for making me so? Thanks for clearing that up.

Not to mention of course that careful reading of the report only shows 6% with a belief in a personal god - and since your god is a personal god that's the maximum percentage of rebellious atheists you can claim. (Of which only 3% are absolutely certain of a personal god). I'm fully willing to entertain the notions that some of these people are rebelling against a personal god and are doing it in a very stupid way. (Hence my original comment: I find it not embarrassing, I find it stupid.)

Now given that can you tell me why the other 15% are rebelling against a god they have no reason to rebel against? What theory have you? That they really believe in a personal god?

[uberllama42]

48. You're asking for poll numbers showing

that some people don't believe in God, but never tell anyone? Doesn't that sort of preclude telling a pollster? I would point you to the personal stories of Karen Armstrong and John Shelby Spong, both of whom gradually came to realize that they did not believe in the stories of Christianity. Their histories are somewhat different from each other, but both attest that many who profess rather publicly to believe one thing privately have different views.

What kind of poll question are you looking for? "If you ascribe to/participate in an organized religion, do you honestly believe, or are you merely pretending to do so in response to social or political pressure?"? Furthermore, I don't think the people in the Pew study are admitting to making a pretense of being atheists. I agree with many of the reasons posted in this thread, but in particular I would point to the wording of the question- it refers not only to God but also a "universal spirit." There are a number of people who refer to themselves as atheist or agnostic who believe in fate, or an Oversoul, or some New Age spiritual force. By forcing God and a "universal spirit" into a single category, Pew is likely grouping together respondents who do not belong under one heading. This is similar to the way they include "not too sure" and "not at all sure" as a single answer in their charts. Those are not the same answer and do not belong in the same cell in charts and tables.

Right now we are discussing the results of a poll showing that a whole lot of people who profess to be atheists or agnostics actually believe in God.

Are you accusing me of trying to change the subject?

And it's not just a few people on the fringes. More than one-fifth of self-professed atheists and more than HALF of self-professed agnostics ADMIT to believing in God.

I read the OP, so I know what we're talking about. But thanks for the recap.

Also, what constitutes "the fringes" of atheism? If I have to point this out one more time, I'm going to make it my goddamn sig line: atheists are not a coherent group. Atheism is not a philosophy with doctrine and extensive content. Atheism is merely the lack of a belief in gods. It makes no sense to talk about who is "mainstream" and who is "fringe".

[Zebedeo]

49. You are the one making the claim,

so you should be the one to provide the evidence, if any exists. I am not aware of any poll results that indicate that a large percentage of Christian believers are insincere in their professed belief, but I am open to the possibility that such evidence exists. You are the one making this assertion, so I assume that you would have some evidence to back it up. Perhaps I should not so assume.

Also, what constitutes "the fringes" of atheism? If I have to point this out one more time, I'm going to make it my goddamn sig line: atheists are not a coherent group. Atheism is not a philosophy with doctrine and extensive content. Atheism is merely the lack of a belief in gods. It makes no sense to talk about who is "mainstream" and who is "fringe".

My point is that you cannot dismiss the poll results by saying that it was just a few crackpots. Over 35,000 people were polled using a scientifically valid methodology, and a huge proportion of respondents who identified themselves as atheists and agnostics answered questions in a way that revealed that they do believe in God.

[cyborg_jim]

43. You really need to board the clue train

Perhaps YOU genuinely do not believe in God, but between one-fifth and one-half of your group admits to believing in God.

Right, so you really believe, I'm mean when you run the scenario through your head, that someone who is responding to a pollster in response to the questions:

"Are you an atheist?"

"Do you believe in god?"

Answers "yes" to both doesn't represent someone who is either confused about one of those questions?

I think you would concede that there are some people out there who profess to be atheists or agnostics, but who really, secretly, in the back of their minds, believe that God exists.

So let's say I'm one of those people: what have I gained by telling you that I'm an atheist whilst believing in a god?

Not a fucking lot really. The other way around makes sense for many cultural and political reasons. The only reason to say you're an atheist if you really believe in a god is to be a contrarian. People don't generally identify themselves as cultural atheists because such a thing makes not a lick of sense.

I.e. if this poll accurately represents how people responded then there's a lot of people yanking chains.

Not to mention if it's something I'm keeping secret why am I telling a pollster this information honestly?

If you really thought that God didn't exist, what would be the point of mocking or "laughing" at Him?

What's the point of mocking fiction? Ask a critic.

[charlie]

28. "You have a supermajority" LOL!

If you bear down and believe really, really hard in The Perverse Contrarian Atheist it can COME TRUE. Miracles do happen!

Faith. Is there ANYTHING it can't do?

[immoderate]

62. Eight percent of circles are actually squares.

They just don't want to admit it. :rofl:

--IMM

[struggle4progress]

65. Well, circles in the "taxicab metric" -- do look like squares

[Silent3]

67. Haven't seen you in ages here, and this is what you jump in on?

You're pretty desperate for anything that tends to bolster the belief I'm pretty sure you hold: That 100% of people believe in God, they KNOW IT, DEEP DOWN, even if they don't admit it, and everything but saying "I believe!" is evil and rebellion, huh?

[charlie]

68. T'was a year ago, Silent3

Zeb hasn't been around since it became clear McCain was going to get thrashed.

[Meshuga]

12. The first survey only shows

that the 21% group in question might not know what an atheist is. The confused party is not atheist (like the article claims) but theist.

17% of "agnostics" who are absolutely certain that god exists are not agnostics by definition. They are believers.

[BlueJazz]

13. Anybody who doesn't believe in the great Flying Spaghetti Monster

...is no Friend of mine...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Isn't that the percentage of florida jews who voted Buchanan?

Things like this, I think, only show the fallibility of polls.

[TZ]

17. exactly. n/t

[Meshuga]

18. Funny thing that you mentioned

Because I originally thought about asking whether "butterfly ballots" were used to conduct the survey. :-)

[Evoman]

32. The problem with polls is that there are fucking morons designing them, and stupid idiots responding

to them. This stupid amalgamates into dumbass results like "21% of Atheists believe in god."

[varkam]

20. It's a contradiction of terms.

If you believe in God, then you're not an atheist. :shrug:

[knitter4democracy]

22. Then there's the longstanding American tradition of lying for polls.

I'd bet that's where the numbers come from, someone just messing with the pollsters' heads.

[John Gauger]

24. I find it more likely that they just don't know what the words mean.

I've often wondered what percentage of respondents in polls know enough to even speak a single word on the subject, let alone form an opinion on it. (I'm usually wondering this when I see a poll placing Bush's approval rating above twenty percent. You remember when he was at 91%? Heads up their asses.) It seems we here have some evidence concerning the matter. Of course, not everybody who didn't know the word "atheist" self-identified as one, so it seems to me that roughly twice as many cretins responded to the poll as we see here.

I would be hesitant to say that they were intentionally messing with the polls. Who wastes their time on that kinda shit? If it was an Internet poll, I could see if they were trolls, but I find that while most people are not as malicious in real life as they are on the Internet, they are as stupid.

[knitter4democracy]

34. We know from New Hampshire, though, that people do mess with polls.

There were some quotes in some articles at the time of the NH primary with people saying they flat-out lied to pollsters. I'd be surprised if no one lied about that at all.

[Realityhack]

60. I forget what the figures are...

but occasionally major polling companies do polls to try to figure out how many people will agree with just about anything. IIRC its somewhere around 5% or so.

I must say that the poll in question is most likely just very confused people. They only hit 1.6% of respondents being atheists. I imagine a fair number of people in their sample don't even know what that means.

What the results SHOULD say are that x % of self identified atheists clearly do not know how to classify themselves (same for agnostics).

[John Gauger]

25. Idiots. Morons. Cretins. Imbeciles.

Dumbasses. Ignoramuses. They don't know what the words mean.

I give you the American citizen, spectacular in his stupidity.

[RagAss]

64. Yup.

[moggie]

26. And 18% of Americans believe the Sun orbits the Earth

I wonder how many dumb people think "atheist" means "not Christian"?

That 21% figure comes from the table labelled "Conception of God" in the report, and breaks down as follows:

Net believe in God: 21%
Personal God: 6%
Impersonal force: 12%
Other/don't know: 3%

The 8% figure comes from the table labelled "Certainty of Belief in God or Universal Spirit" (emphasis added):

Net believe in God: 21%
Absolutely certain: 8%
Less certain: 13%

What I take from these tables is that a minority of Americans who self-identify as atheist probably have some nebulous naturalistic pantheist beliefs, while a smaller minority probably think "atheist" means "I believe in a personal god, just not the one from Sunday school".

On edit: my favourite figure from the report is that 10% of those "atheists" pray at least weekly. I'd like to meet these oddballs.

[charlie]

27. Notice "Other/don't know" is included in that figure

So:

"I don't know" - Doesn't know... believes in God.
"Mu" - Smartass, other... believes in God.

Doesn't make much sense.

I'm inclined to agree the figure just reflects dependable ol' American dumbassery. I also agree it's a dishonest reduction to find "belief in God" when the query includes an undefined "universal spirit", which can rope in "I don't believe in God, but I'm spiritual" types.

Church-affiliated Christians have their atheistic rogues in this survey, too -- Mainline churches 1%, Catholic 1%, Orthodox 4%, Other Christian 1%. Or if you use their method of applying Other/Don't Know -- Mainline 2%, Catholic 3%, Orthodox 5%, Other Christian 3%. Jews weigh in with 10% (17%), but they have the excuse of also being a cultural/ethnic identity. The really big surprise is that 5% (7%) of American Muslims don't believe in God.

[HamdenRice]

29. In other words, 21% of self-described atheists are actually probably deists

This is actually a very common position in modern America and does not necessarily reflect confusion, but a different interpretation of what atheism is.

Deists believe in an abstract god who created the universe and set in place the laws of the universe that are discoverable by science. But that god does not interfere in human life, cannot be appealed to by prayer, and was not revealed in any holy texts.

Deists generally reject the Abrahamic religions and reject the idea of a patriarchal or human-like god sitting in judgement of the world.

Deists do not believe in supernatural events, or the supernatural events described in holy texts.

Because deists views are so different from those of organized religion, it is easy for a deist to say, "I don't believe in any God (as described in traditional religious traditions)" even if they believe in a supreme force or being.

Most of the people I know have views somewhat like this, and my father was essentially a deist who often described himself as an atheist.

So I don't think the 21% described in the poll are confused.

[uberllama42]

31. Do you have any documentation of 'atheist' being used in that way?

I have never talked to a person who self-identifies as an atheist but actually believes in some form of god.

If respondents are using definitions other than the ones intended by the pollsters, doesn't that qualify as confusion? Just because they have some idea what they're talking about (as opposed to someone who has no idea what the word atheist means) doesn't mean they are on the same wavelength as the people who are asking the questions.

[hendo]

55. regardless

you can never get away from of aa respondent's interpretations of the questions being asked. No matter how carefully something is worded you will always get people who have thier own interpretation of the question being asked which is why polls areinherently flawed when they ask about abstract concepts.

[cosmik debris]

58. I love it when you tell other people what they believe.

It makes my day!

[Dorian Gray]

30. LOL

That's just silly.

[bananas]

35. Somebody gets it!

:)

[and-justice-for-all]

Well thats a bunch of bullshit...nt

[and-justice-for-all]

38. Well thats a bunch of bullshit...nt

[cosmik debris]

53. I wonder WHICH god they believe in? n/t

[hendo]

56. That would have been a better

mulitple choice question.
a) Judeo/Christian
b) Muslim
c) Hindu Dieties
d) Taoist Spirits
e) Animist spirits
f) Shinto spirits
g) other: specify

and a question that goes something like on a scale of 1-10 what level of interaction to you believe that your god has in his creation.

[cosmik debris]

57. Atheism/theism is not a multiple choice question

If you want to know if someone is an atheist, you ask them a yes or no question: Do you believe in a deity?"

It seems clear that this survey is plagued by semantic problems that should have been avoided. I have to wonder about the motives of the survey writers?

[Occam Bandage]

61. I see a possible explanation in the inclusion of "universal spirit" there.

You might, say, have a self-described "agnostic" who is absolutely convinced that there is some higher order or binding spirit in the universe, but has no idea what it is, and certainly does not want to ascribe to it any of the features we associate with deities.

You might, say, have a self-described "atheist" who believes in a universal consciousness or Brahman that is attainable through enlightenment or as a form of afterlife, but who also completely denies the existence of gods or divinities of any sort.

[Dufaeth]

63. Maybe they thought the questions was ...

"Are you A theist?"

[struggle4progress]

66. Actually, I don't find this position odd or laughable: several times in this forum, I've posted

the famous slogan Only an atheist can be a good Christian; only a Christian can be a good atheist