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What does "Biblical literalism" mean to you?

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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:19 PM
Original message
What does "Biblical literalism" mean to you?
I've thought of two possible definitions:

1. Biblical literalism is the position that the Bible should be read with no regard for metaphor whatsoever. When Jesus says "I am the door" he means that he is a wooden frame connected to a wooden board with hinges that people walk through in order to travel between rooms.

2. Biblical literalism is the position that the Bible is historically accurate in all respects and objectively accurate in its depiction of the workings of reality, and should be read that way instead of purely as fables or myths meant only to teach life lessons.

It seems to me that if the first one is rarely or never used, we should find a better word for the second position than "literalism", becaue literalism suggests the first one, or the word is being misused.

How about "Biblical objectivism"?
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. To me, biblical literalism means
mean-spirited, so-called, Christians.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. What does mean-spiritness have to do with literalism?
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. When I meet a mean-spirited Christian (and, I meet many),
you can usually count on that person being a "literalist." Just my observation.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Usually it's claimed by people who have been taught the Bible,
but not read it. Who have been taught selective bits and pieces, and taught a particular interpretation that often defends a very authoritarian vision of Christianity. No surprise as the people teaching this view often see themselves as the authority.

I don't agree with either of the OP's definitions of "literalist", although they make perfect sense logically. I think the truth as it usually is, is messier.

But there's nothing logical about Biblical literalists!
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Medieval mindset is what Biblical literalism means to me.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hypocrisy
Those who proclaim they live by the bible are smorgasbord shoppers. Pick this story to enforce that policy and that story to reinforce this belief.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. I get the impression that most literalists don't bother...
...to clearly define the extent of their own literalism, but pick and choose where to be literal as it suits them. It would be difficult do find a Christian who takes "I am the door" literally, but you can actually find a few who insist that "four corners of the earth" can't be a mere expression of speech, and thus conclude the Earth must be flat.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Yes. I agree
I think many haven't actually given a great deal of thought to what they've been taught. And I'd guess that there experience of the Bible has been somewhat spoon-fed to them - this passage and that, but not that. And it's always been delivered to them with an iron-clad interpretation from which they stray at risk of eternal peril.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Likely something akin to original intent.
I'd take it the same way that I'd take a living interlocutor's speech. Somebody talks, and there are times when he's speaking metaphorically, using an analogy to make his point, or is speaking "literally"--referential words have an actual referent that is in line with the words' base meanings, not referring to something else because of some overlapping attribute or property. Sometimes it's ambiguous.

"Luke just kicked the bucket" may be ambiguous. It's New Year's Eve, the nursing home's just had a party and the desk clerk is in the john. "I'm here to see Luke." (drunk off-duty employee covering for desk clerk:) "Luke just kicked the bucket." Still New Year's eve, same drunk off-duty desk clerk. Manager asks: "What was that horrible noise?" "Luke just kicked the bucket."

When asking if a historian means what he wrote to be taken literally, he's likely to say yes: and if somebody points out a metaphor, he'd regard that as mere snarkiness and nit-picking, part of an attempt to not understand what he wrote. It happens. You don't have to be on drugs to use metaphors. (Sometimes it may help.)


There are poetic passages in the Bible that make obvious use of metaphor and allusion. To wedge those into a literalist reading would be silly, counter the obvious intent.

There are passages that aren't poetic, but are to be understood literally; this doesn't claim they're accurate, just that the write believe them to be accurate, or accuate enough. Some are historical. Some are prophetic. Some are what would strictly have to be called mythic. Now, it's trite for everybody to believe that their ancestors (spiritual or genetic) weren't stupid, that they didn't believe in sky gods and their pecadilloes. I heard one Native American insist that nobody actually ever took any of their myths for truth--only ever as metaphor. Seems farfetched, that, and self-serving.

There are passages in which the obvious referent probably isn't the real referent: To some extent religion has to extend the meanings of words since, well, they talk about things that nobody in the listening audience has actually seen (some cognitive linguists would call this metaphor, but that's their schtick: most historical linguists would simply call it "extension", making use of an existing word to name a new thing). There are other places where the context and reasonable rules of interpretation (the kind that serve us in daily use) alleviate some of the weirdness derived from decontextualized scripture citation.

Then there are passages where you have to wonder: It's not clear, and denominations and exegetes have to take a stand--it might be ambiguous, but is it? Is it literal? Or is it metaphorical? Even "literalists" will sometimes disagree on what's ambiguous, and how to resolve the ambiguity.

The extreme converse of "literalism" (i.e., "original intent") is to adopt a highly metaphorical reading. The writer didn't intend, by talking about the Exodus, to say the Israelites came out of Egypt; no, he's talking about centuries-long ethnogenesis in which NW Semitic tribes, when faced with Egyptian influence and conflict with nearby tribes (Semitic and otherwise), are said to have coalesced into a single ethnicity that only existed post-Babylonian-exile. He was myth building. This shows that religious anthropologists only in the late 20th century reached the kind of intellectual sophistication and understanding that was tacitly accepted by the 7th century editors (or previous writers even older, if the editors merely trivially updated older documents). Now, they don't mean to do that, but I think that's what the few people taking such an extreme view are left with.

In between are hybrids. The writer meant it literally, but we interpret it metaphorically--whatever it is. Or he overstated, on his own authority, how something's to be applied, or stated his reasons and not the "right" reasons. Many variants on it. Some are closer to literal than others.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Both can be the same position. Believing that no ahistoric metaphor is used
Edited on Mon Jun-09-08 01:25 PM by Occam Bandage
in the writing of the Bible does not require one to believe that people never speak in metaphors. A literalist would believe that Jesus actually said the words, "I am the door." A literalist need not apply any particular intent to that speech, excepting where the Bible provides intent.

As for your suggestion that we find a different term: why? Biblical literalists take every sentence in the bible literally, and believe that every sentence in the bible is literally true. There are no problems here. It's a useful, intuitive, and universally understood term.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. When it is used by a believer
It means "I'm right, you're wrong".

When it is used by a non believer it means "You're an idiot."

I don't see it having any more concrete meaning than that.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. For many it means "the Bible is the literal word of God"
Edited on Mon Jun-09-08 01:42 PM by HamdenRice
It does not necessarily mean that God is incapable of speaking in metaphors.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think most literalists (aka fundamentalists--that's their theology) think #2.
Though, I've also heard them try to say that the streets of Heaven will be clear, since Revelations says the streets will be paved with gold as pure as clear glass (they totally miss the simile). Then, there's the whole what if that's just the way to describe it so we can understand it issue that they seem to miss.

It's not that they don't think in metaphor (Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life--all metaphorical), but it's more that they really feel that every single word in the (KJV) Bible is literally true in that it is literally from God and 100% true (Jesus is the only choice for salvation, so He's the Way, the Truth, and the Life, even if that's a metaphorical understanding of it).

These are the people who also tend to take it a bit far, such as the gold streets example I've heard and really most of Revelations.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. "wooden frame connected to a wooden board with hinges"
It sounds as though you're assuming that Jesus is not a revolving door made of glass and metal. What kind of a door would Jesus be if he let drafts in?
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. What kind of a door would Jesus be...
I vote for saloon type swinging doors.
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