Do normal young men seriously consider becoming Catholic priests?

[Boojatta]

Suppose that a devout young man who adheres to Catholicism and attends church regularly has just finished grade 9. Suppose that a young woman his age attends his church and has a good relationship with him that is shaping up for possible future marriage. However, suppose that he is seriously considering becoming a priest, but is unsure about whether or not he is capable of becoming a priest, for reasons of academic ability, personal suitability, or some other reason.

Is anyone who is unsure about his academic ability advised to give up any hope of becoming a priest?

Is anyone who is unsure about the vocation of priesthood because of interest in marriage advised to give up on the idea of becoming a priest?

Are young Catholic men advised to get married and simply get a church-approved divorced when they want to join the priesthood?

Would he be advised to wait and keep the young woman waiting for many years until he either gets on the priest payroll or marries her?

[CatholicEdHead]

1. Up until 1100AD priests could marry

They shut that down over medieval property rights. While there are groups in the Church that want to remove this, most conservative factions freak out and fight against it.

There are many out there who would love to join the priesthood if they could marry after ordination.

There is a loophole that you can be married and a minister in a similar Christian denomination, and convert to a Roman Catholic Priest and still keep your marriage.

Otherwise, the "ideal" is that mandatory (should be optional) celibacy should be the rule (lack of distractions, more loyalty to Rome, etc...) and there is no discussion at least until there is a new Pope (probably long after that).

[Boojatta]

2. I heard that there's a shortage of new priests.

There is a loophole that you can be married and a minister in a similar Christian denomination, and convert to a Roman Catholic Priest and still keep your marriage.

Do Catholic websites specfy which Christian denominations are considered similar enough to Catholicism for the marriage to be kept? Getting the information out to people could help create a stream of people who are ready, willing, and able to become Catholic priests.

[CatholicEdHead]

3. Eastern Orthodox and Espisopalician

For sure, not sure about Methodist or Lutheran.

[Dorian Gray]

11. Churches in the Eastern Catholic Rite

allow their priests to be married, despite being in communion with the Roman Church. (This is different than Eastern Orthodox Churches. Here we are talking about The Maronite Catholic Church, The Assyrian Catholic Church, and about 14 others.)

Anglicans can convert to become Catholic priests and remain married. I believe Lutherans can, as well, though I am more uncertain about that. And Eastern Orthodox priests can convert and remain married.

[catnhatnh]

4. A Catholic cannot within the church be divorced....

and can therefore not become a priest.I'm not sure, but believe a Catholic could have an annulled marriage and become a priest, but that would be very unusual.....

[mitchtv]

5. They recruited smart kids when I went to school

I imagine their standards are different now. now as long as you are not obviously Gay would probably be the requirement. They did stress academic achievement in my day. As far as I know their are one or two married ex Episcopal priests around. I don't think the others qualify except Orthodox if there were any takers from them

[saltpoint]

6. As usual, a thoughtful post by this OP. And valuable to the current debate, IMO.

My answer would be that the young man faced with that choice will have to make the choice. He can postpone it of course, and may want to, but he cannot both have a carnal marriage and a spiritual marriage under the narrow prescription of the Roman Catholic Church if he pursues the priesthood.

Arguing against the prescsription itself makes more sense, inasmuch as Christ's trust in Mary Magdalen, IMO, convincingly eclipses the apostolic succession law, which in any case appears gender-biased and arbitrary. Christ is not reported to have flown in helicopters either, but recent Popes have. The rules need to be clarified generally and significantly re-evaluated and re-written particularly as regards women as priests and married priests.

We no more know if Jesus of Galilee was married than we know if Lincoln would have liked blueberry pie. Jesus might have been married. He might not have been. He might have been gay. He might have been gender-variant. We have no clinical data either way/any way.

I like the OP's emphasis on academic ability as a criterion for the would-be priest aspirant. There have been enormous contributions by Catholic (and other faiths') ministers/priests over many centuries and the suggestion that this is significant and enduring is a good one, IMO.

The young woman might not wish to wait for a young man over the long period between his early schooling and eventual success in one or another endeavor. I hope she is the sort of young woman who, if she is Catholic, will stand up for women to be ordained. With the referenced shortage of priests, it seems to me that married priests generally and women priests especially would be a plus for the Church. To date, no one from the Vatican has sought my input. :-)

As a personal observation for this thread, I would just offer the notion that if someone on DU chooses to read and fairly consider one of Boojatta's posts, he or she runs an extremely high risk of learning something.

Bravo.

[smoogatz]

7. No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

[edhopper]

8. As one who often meets Boojatta's post with

derision, I must say this is a thoughtful post.
I see the Catholic priesthood itself (not the church as a whole including parishioners) as a cult. Finding impressionable young men, sometimes children, removing them from there family, and making them give up everything for the church.
Do it with a hundred people it's a cult. A hundred thousand and it's organized religion.

[ZombieHorde]

9. Do normal young men seriously consider becoming Catholic priests?

No.

[Dorian Gray]

10. Since my husband was considering

becoming a priest and went to a seminary high school, I can answer some of those questions.

If they have a GOOD spiritual advisor who is advising them about these things then:

a) If his uncertainty about his academic abilities were based on a real inability, then he may be advised not to become a priest. But he'd have to have shown a real inability to learn, bordering on a severe learning disability.

b) If the person was really uncertain about his vocation and was interested in marriage, he would be told to wait by a good advisor until he was sure that priesthood was his vocation.

c) Young Catholic men are never advised just to get married and get a church approved "divorce." (I assume you mean annullment.)

d) He would NOT be advised to keep the young woman waiting for many years. He would never be advised to lead someone on, but rather to be honest about his feelings. Dating while making the decision is not a problem, though he would be advised not to be sexually involved. (I know a bunch of priests, and most of them had sexual experience before the priesthood.)

[shrike]

12. Priests are men

I recently had the unsettling experience of having a priest check out a certain part of my, er, anatomy. He didn't leer, he didn't linger, but it's happened often enough in my life (hope I don't sound like I'm bragging) that I knew right away what he'd done. With men it's such an automatic thing that he may not have known he was doing it. But I'll tell you, for an aging Catholic girl it was quite disconcerting.

[Dorian Gray]

13. I bet it was...

I'd be a little freaked out if I noticed something like that, myself! But, I believe it happens. Priests are human beings just like the rest of us. We hold them to higher standards because they preach about higher standards, but they are men who feel the same impulses (some good, some not so good) that every other man feels.

[DesertRat]

14. Michael Moore did. n/t

[Goblinmonger]

15. I did.

Probably because of being raised in a strict Catholic household. Probably because the high school seminary I went to was a far better school than the rural school in Nowhere, ND I was attending and was thus quite attractive academically. Probably a lot of reasons.

As to your specific questions as it applies to my experience:

1. Not overtly, but it is a lot of academics and you have to like to study to get through it.

2. My spiritual advisor was great. He let me know that everyone has talents and we need to use them to the fullest and that not all people are going to be priests. He wasn't big on the "called by god" business.

3. Hell no.

4. If someone was seriously considering the priesthood, he would not be advised to keep a chippy on the side nor lie to her.

[Deep13]

16. What kind of man rejects all sexuality and "worldly" interests and agrees to live under the ...

... medieval restrictions of an ancient, hierarchical religion?

The kind that thinks that his thoughts or actions have already damned him and seeks a celibate life as a way to avoid further "sinful" thoughts or feelings. That is men who pathologically think women really are evil, gay men who believe what the church tells them and pedophiles.

Anyone in authority, straight or gay, can be a child molester although every one I have prosecuted has been male (except for very few female enablers). Nevertheless, I don't think it is a coincidence that the bulk of these church child-rape prosecutions has been in a celibate profession that attracts people who are already pretty screwed up. (In the case of gay men, it is the self-loathing that is screwed-up.)

[shrike]

17. I've been told ad nauseum, though, that the majority of child molesters are married

And not by clergy, either: by law enforcement, or by other people in the justice system.

I'm not dissing your opinion at all. It's just that it's a little different from what I'm used to hearing.

In my days as a police reporter I very rarely encountered a case of molestation that didn't involve family. Sort of like a crime of convenience; grow your own victims. Or have your sibling/cousin grow your victims for you.

An acquaintance of mine was sentenced to prison for molesting his nephew a few years ago, and you could have knocked me over with a feather. Never saw it coming -- Mr. Nice guy, community volunteer, firefighter, married to a very pretty woman, children of his own.

I know it's fairly common for non-Catholic monks to live celibate lives. The celibacy concept also has roots outside Catholicism; the Shakers come to mind. Also, I believe the Essenes were celibate. For obvious reasons, it's never been a very popular lifestyle choice. Although there are people for whom sex is not very important. I seem to remember reading a guestimate of the percentage of "asexuals" in a given population and being surprised. Not that all these folks are going to enter religious orders.

Of course, this is America, with a VERY heavy emphasis on sexuality, and I suppose the experience of young men here is much different.

[Deep13]

18. That's true. I suppose most feel no remorse at all.

Every child molester I have prosecuted has been either a family member or someone close to the family. A lot of them have been men that graft themselves onto pre-existing single-mother families either by marriage, as live-in boyfriends or by marriage and adoption.

"Of course, this is America, with a VERY heavy emphasis on sexuality, and I suppose the experience of young men here is much different."

Um, where do you suppose I'm writing from? That's the State of Ohio pennant on my avatar. (Michigan U. sucks! :7 )

[shrike]

19. Heh. I'm a U-M grad myself

When I said, "in America," it was a follow-up to my meanderings about Asia and such. I understood full well that you live and work in the U.S.

Yeah, it is true that these guys show no remorse. I've heard that, too, what you just said: that they gravitate toward single-mom families. Sad.

Isn't amazing that most parents are worried about strangers in the bushes when they really should be worrying about Uncle Joe, or Neighbor Sam, or Father Mike?

[Deep13]

20. Just kidding about Michigan, BTW.

Seems de rigueur around here when the football teams from MU and OSU play each other. I grew up in MA and moved here when I was 24, so I don't really have any particular attachment to any sort of regional pride issues.

[Tesha]

21. No, normal young men don't become celibate priests. (NT)

[Lost-in-FL]

22. 3 childhood friends went to school in Italy to become Catholic priest...

2 made it all the way but one of them marry a nun after 3 years of service. He and his now ex-wife are still very much involved with the church. I heard he wanted to come back but that might just be a rumor.

The other was (is) a very handsome guy and girls were all over him but he didn't seem to care for he was born to "serve the Lord" as he used to say. My schoolmate was deeply in love with him I remember and it was pretty much a known thing (small town). He was the only one who made it, he is still serving or last least last time I checked (10 years ago) he was still a priest.

The 3rd one quit school after only 2 years, became a rebel (the account of many in my town). No one expected this from him I guess cause he was very "fundie-like" (in the sense that he could almost recite the bible and was constantly praying and in tons of church related activities, he was ALWAYS there). I recently heard that he is in Med School in Mexico. He's single and an agnostic.

They all knew they wanted to become priests before their 9th grade and they surely sounded convinced. They were all straight A students and very mature for their age. In high school they were responsible for tasks normally given to adults at my church. We were all part of the "catholic youth" (sounds scary now that I think about) and i remember us always asking them the tipical "what if ______ " questions and they sounded very convinced. They would say they were advised by the priest in our church and was maybe the reason why they were assigned all kinds of tasks. They were watched closely by the priest and were never forced to jump in, in the contrary they would say the priest would make it very difficult on them.

Of course this was over 15 years ago and in a Latin country. Catholicism in Latin America is sort of "fundie-like" if you compare it to the USA or Europe.

[Boojatta]

23. Additional question...

What percentage of normal young men are "real men"?

Edited to add Link to a Thread in DU Religion/Theology

[Marrah_G]

24. My father was in the Seminary for 2 + years

Then he became gravely ill and needed to leave. He met my mom and they fell in love and he decided not to go back.

He would have made as good a priest as he did a public HS teacher.

He is a brilliant man who could have spent his life making a fortune, instead he chose to spend it serving his community.

Yes good and normal men join the seminary.

[Rabrrrrrr]

25. Of course. What an ignorantly loaded question.

:eyes: