shaking the foundations of faith

[Ghost in the Machine]

I think I almost converted two jehovah's witnesses to atheism this morning.... they made the mistake of knocking on my door and wanting to talk to me about their god.... when I was done with them, they actually asked if they could come back later in the week to hear more of what I was teaching them... they seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say, and even agreed with some of it.

We'll see if they come back. I wasn't mean or disrespectful to them, and they thanked me for that before leaving.... I told them I would read their literature in return..

PEACE!

Ghost

[fenriswolf]

1. nice one

[Ghost in the Machine]

9. thanks!

:hi:

[More Than A Feeling]

2. That's my rule for real life: if they try to convert me, I get to try and deconvert them in return.

It's a fair system.

[Ghost in the Machine]

10. sounds very fair to me

I do listen when they come, and treat them with respect, as I expect to be treated in return. They won't convert me, but they may walk away from here with a different outlook on life...

:hi:

[dysfunctional press]

3. what were some points you made with them...?

the general gist of your arguments?

i've been practicing a pitch to help with conversions, myself.

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. My beliefs and points I made with them are highly controversial, yet plausible

and are not really accepted by many... here or elsewhere. I have no basis for my beliefs, other than an enlightening experience I had many years ago, and I'll leave it at that. I've been told my beliefs sound kind of like scientology, and similar to a book or movie called "the red planet", although I have never looked into or studied scientology, nor have I seen the movie or read the book mentioned.

What I told them was that I believed that this world was started by beings from another planet that was either overcrowded and running out of resources, or possibly facing annihilation by nuclear holocaust or something.

Much like our space exploration that we are doing today, searching for another planet suitable for life, these other beings, our ancestors, were searching for somewhere else suitable to sustain life. Their exploration led them to this planet, where they came and did some experiments. They found oxygen and water, so they first brought plant life here and planted it in different parts of the planet to see how they would grow, change and adapt to their surroundings and atmosphere. They monitored the progress of these plants and saw that they could survive, thrive and reproduce.

They then brought some insects here and did the same thing. They placed them in different areas of the planet and monitored them to see how they grew, changed and adapted to their surroundings and atmosphere (environment). They learned that the insects would survive, thrive and reproduce. This led them to start bringing small mammals and or domesticated animals to monitor them, with the same results. They were able to survive, thrive and reproduce.

I then told them that I believed that the "cavemen" were an experiment in cross-breeding their own species with monkeys or apes, but that they never evolved to the intelligence level that they wanted so they then decided to "create" man, Adam, which was either a clone or a test tube baby, or quite possibly a synthetic experiment with DNA, which is the reason that scientists today have not been able to find the "missing link" between primates and man.

I also told them that their own bible shows incidences of space travel where it speaks of the "angels descending from the sky in their flaming chariots" and where the "angels came down and took Mary into a tent and administered unto her".. yes, I told them that the "immaculate conception" of Jesus Christ was no more than an artificial insemination of a being that they created here with the sperm of one of the beings from the planet that created us. I asked them "what do you see coming from our rockets and space shuttles when they take off, or coming from the backs of jets when they take off? That's right... flames!" They were really dumbfounded, yet genuinely interested in what I was saying. They didn't try to interrupt me, nor did they try to preach at me and change my views.


Ok... you can feel free to call me certifiably crazy now, I'm used to it, but this is what I believe and what I base my lifestyle on. It works well for me. I view it as a combination of "intelligent design" (without the omnipotent being hocus pocus) and evolution.

PEACE!

Ghost

[Dorian Gray]

33. Sort of like Battlestar Galactica..

(I'm a sci-fi geek!) They are going to cross the universe until they find earth to settle! :)

[annabanana]

4. Watch it! The next time they come,

they'll bring reinforcements...

[Lint Head]

6. The JWM, Jehovah Witness Mafia will be back.

This may seem incredible but, they believe they have Jesus locked away in a closet until he comes 'out of the closet'. This is not a joke. I heard this from Bob Larson. He's the guy that you see on television all the time that claims he's an exorcist and casts out demons. He's a right wing nut.:dem:

[Ghost in the Machine]

13. So, do they think that they will decide when Jesus comes back??

since they have him locked away and all? Will they be personally responsible for Armaggedon and the Rapture?

:hi:

[Ghost in the Machine]

11. I hope they do! Maybe I can perform a mass conversion!

If not, at least they'll walk away with different view on life than they have now....

:hi:

[notadmblnd]

5. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to come

After my husband died, Dorothy, (a JW who had previously decided that I was her little nut to crack) went into overdrive conversion mode with me. She would come bringing little gifts for my son, even leaving them at the door if I wasn't home. Finally she stopped by one day around Easter and invited me to go to her church. I told her that I could not become a part of something that disallowed their members involvement in politics. Well she said to me, "that's because the Bible says so." I looked at her kinda goofy and asked "What do you mean? Christs life and death was nothing but political." I explained to her that Jesus chasing the money changers out of the temple was political and that the priests were afraid that Jesus had to much influence on the people and hence their reason for turning him into the Romans. IIRC correctly, the guy in charge wanted nothing to do with it and put it back on the Jews.. Then I asked how was that not political? How was Jesus not making a statement and instigating change?


I haven't heard from her since.

[Ghost in the Machine]

12. You did good there! Maybe they'll come back, maybe not...

but at least they walked away with another viewpoint to consider. I will, however, read their literature they left with me so I can discuss it with them if they do return. I told them that I would, and I wasn't lying to them about that.

:hi:

[Warpy]

7. I'd rather just be left alone

and I managed to get rid of all the door bangers trying to sell Jesus quite a few years ago. They'd invariably ring my bell, bang on my door and front window until I answered, usually an hour after I'd gotten to sleep after a grueling 12 hour night shift. To say I was not a nice person is a gross understatement.

They haven't bothered me for about 10 years. I even got rid of the Mormons.

I'm perfectly happy to let people have their illusions as long as they leave me with mine. Since they didn't much like being confronted by a virago, they've been perfectly content to do so.

I'd suggest anyone who seriously wants to get rid of proselytizers hire a night nurse to crash on their sofa on weekends while they spend the day out somewhere. Night nurses are RABID when awakened. Your house will soon be left alone.

[Ghost in the Machine]

14. I don't mind them coming around.. it gives me someone to talk to.

it gets a little lonely living out here in the sticks sometimes. I enjoy the conversation and the debate. I also look forward to the local politicians coming around during election cycles... boy do *they* get an ear full!

:hi:

[Wizard777]

15. In my old neighborhood we used to have a game called God Bless The Witnesses.

When the witnesses hit the first house that started the phone chain to let everyone know the game was on. This is how the game was played. When they knocked on your door. You would answer and politely listen to thier speech. The first time they told you that you were going to burn in hell. You got to bless them with all the holy water you could get out of your hose until they hit the gate. That meant your turn was over and it was someone elses turn.

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. LMAO!! Sounds like a neighborhood I'd like to live in!

:hi:

[Ghost in the Machine]

17. unabashed, self serving kick

[Didereaux]

18. A true story of a permanent cure of the Jehovahs'....

Out where we lived when this occured there wasn't all that much traffic, and everyone pretty well knew everyone else and the vehicles they drove. So every 3-4 months when an older sedan of some make and model would come creeping along up the hill it became common to assume it was the 'Witnesses' again. It's okay to politely say no to their advances a few dozen times or so, but eventually it becomes annoying and you really feel a need to put an end to it.

This was around the time that the law was passed where you could call in and get on an official list that all solicitors had to check before knocking on your door, generally it worked a lot better than the present 'do not call' list, but then again there were one or two bureaucrats who were not totally incompetent back then. Anyways in this instance it didn't work. A new approach had to be thought of. So the wife and I the next shopping trip found a used book store and bought a dozen or so paperbacks fro a buck, and a couple other items. took them home, put them in a box and set them conveniently near the kitchen table.

Sure enough it wasn't three or four weeks lated than here comes an old sedan creeping up the hill. When they stopped out front, out got the two young neophytes and their two older 'keepers'. Instead of doing as we usually did, meeting them on the porch, we waited and when they knocked we asked them in and asked what they were selling? Their eyes brightened considerably and the young ones garbled the first two lines of the script, but got through it finally after receiving some stern looks from the guardians. "Well, I said. I'm an open minded person, so perhaps we could discuss this, under one condition." This caused a look of concern on the elders faces, and one asked "What might these conditions be?" I smoothly replied, "That I would like to make comparisons with my religion and they could then point out any deficiencies they thought might exist in it. And one other thing to speed things a bit, we would do this every ten minutes. Was that okay?" they huddled, that is the only word fro it, they huddled a few moments and the oldest said they thought that would be very reasonable. I invited them to sit down at the kitchen table with us.

Now being the polite person that I am(quit choking and gagging), I let them have the first ten minutes. When the time was up the wife who had been sitting quietly up to this point, pointed at the clock and said sweetly, "Well, that was certainly a quick ten minutes. Darling, I believe it is your turn?" At that she reached over next to the cupboard and scooted the box of books and stuff over towards me. While rummaging around and getting the stack in order, I said something about needing a reference or two, because my memory was sometimes unreliable on these sorts of things. At which time I carefully arranged the dozen or so books on the occult and satanism onto the table, together with the black candle.

I would have lost any bet as to the agility of that oldest member of the group, and was quite surprised at the inconsideration of the younger ones as they shoved their way first into that old sedan. We never had another visit from the Jehovah's Witnesses at that address all the rest of the time we stayed there.

...and that so help me is the truth!

[Ghost in the Machine]

21. It certainly sounds like you got them good!

:rofl:

I halfway expected these guys to run when I told them I was an atheist, but they stuck around. They could have thought I was crazy or something, but I'm pretty well spoken for a scruffy ol' hippie. I had my hair down still, as I hadn't been up long and wasn't expecting anyone.

Not that it matters, but just for the sake of image, imagine this:

this was two african american men, out here in the sticks of rural Eastern Tennessee, being told this stuff by a guy who is 6'3", 275 lbs with hair halfway down his back, long beard and tattoos...


Your story cracked me up though. I can imagine the ones that visited you scrambling over each other trying to get away from the devil! :rofl:


PEACE!

Ghost

[JerseygirlCT]

19. No disrespect, Ghost

But it's more likely they think they've got *you*. Any chance to come back is a win for them.

But report back on how it goes -- this could be interesting!

[Ghost in the Machine]

20. I'm looking forward to their return, if they come back at all...

they didn't get to me, nor will they ever... unless maybe if they can perform some sort of miracle or have jesus show up in my living room.

I'll let y'all know if they come back this week....


PEACE!

Ghost

[Meshuga]

25. They don't care...

As long as they get your attention they think they are going to get to you. We have two sides here one thinking they got to the other. If you have the time and patience to spare then you should go ahead and let them in next time. Otherwise it is a waste of your time.

[Ghost in the Machine]

27. As I've stated already, I look forward to their return, if they do..

I've got nothing *but* time at the moment, and I'll gladly hear them out, as long as they give me the same respect that I give them.

:hi:

Ghost

[flashl]

22. My experiences suggest

annabanana is right. They will go up their hierarchical chain based on the intensity of discussions and bring reinforcements.

[Ghost in the Machine]

28. We'll see what happens next...

I'll post about it if they come back for more....

:hi:

[BuyingThyme]

23. Did you offer them a beer?

I find that's the best way to break the ice.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. No ma'am, because I don't drink...

Doesn't that usually just work on the Southern Baptists anyways?? LOL!

:hi:

[BuyingThyme]

36. I just figured liquor would be quicker than conversation.

I don't know what a Southern Baptist is, really, but I'm going with liquor on that one too.

:hi:

[Evoman]

24. They were probably just scared of you.

Y..yy..yesssirr...I um...ahem...want to come back to learr..r.r.r.rnnn about your buh buh beliefs.

*runs like hell from Ghost in the Machine*

[Ghost in the Machine]

30. I've been told that I scare women, children & small animals...

but the funny thing was... *I* didn't invite them back, they asked if they could come back.. I think that makes it a little different..

BOO!

Gotcha! :rofl:

PEACE!

Ghost

[Meshuga]

26. You are now on their database of people who actually respond to them

They will come back often. Doing what you did is like clicking on the wrong link and getting a bad case of spyware.

You think you got to them and they probably love that.

[Ghost in the Machine]

31. Well, I do have my little ways of getting to people..

I had a fundie waitress working for me... really nice lady, but she got on my nerves. I didn't want to fire her, mainly because she's also a neighbor and has kids, but she really got on my nerves one day, so I looked at her and said "Watch this, I'm gonna do an impersonation"... then I let my hair down out of a ponytail, shook it all out, held my arms out in an embracing manner and said "look! I'm Jesus!"..... she got a headache and had to go home, then called in the next day and quit...

:hi:

Ghost

[Dorian Gray]

32. Or....

they think that you'll be a huge one to recruit, so they are working slowly and insidiously to gain your trust. Especially since you are receptive to speaking with them. Most JWs get the door slammed in their faces.

[knitter4democracy]

34. I actually got a couple of Mormons to take one of my books once.

They didn't know church history, and I had a nice book that explained it better. :)

I usually tell them to save their resources for someone who wants it, since wasting God's resources is sin (hard for them to argue against that), but if they leave it with me, I call up their pastor and ream him out. Door-to-door has the lowest success rate of any form of witnessing, and it's a serious liability considering how angry people can get about strangers coming to their door.

[struggle4progress]

35. The last time they knocked on my door, I told them I agreed with their uncompromising anti-war

stand and that I admired their martyrs who refused to cooperate with the Nazis

I also told them I didn't read the whole Bible literally and that I thought the theory of evolution taught me something important about how beautiful the world is

I told them that with my theological views I didn't think I'd be happy in their church, and I didn't think they'd be happy having me there either

Some brief neighborly chit-chat followed, before they went their harmless way, uninsulted

They didn't try to proselytize me again

[Bad Thoughts]

37. IT'S A TRAP!!!

Jehovah's Witnesses (as well as Mormons) can be very persistent. They will listen to you ad infinitum, because eventually you will listen to them. They'll kill you with kindness.