Revelation 13: 16-17

[EstimatedProphet]

16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.















Not attacking Christians, but Dominionists. I don't think the fetishism of Christ is good for Christianity. And I find it interesting that the dominionists, who so love the book of Revelation and like to think it's a literal installation guide to the Apocaypse, at the very same time are the ones who are flaunting their beliefs in the marketplace (these are only a few examples) and often willonly patronize "christian" businesses (as indicated by the fish stickers on the front door). Their activity is a perversion of the true meaning of Christianity.

[AndyA]

1. This is what I keeping thinking of when the national I.D. is mentioned.

They are already implanting chips in people's hands to give them access to security areas, we're putting them in pets to find them if they get lost, and our cell phones have locating devices in them.

How far away are we from making this mandatory for every man, woman and child in America?

A big part of the American ideal our country's fathers planned for us is living in freedom. Being tracked and watched by our government everywhere we go is not freedom. And it will be done in the name of fighting terrorism.

[EstimatedProphet]

2. And in the name of Christianity - count on it

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the National ID program were turned over to the Office of Faith Based Initiatives.

[Turbineguy]

10. Interestingly enough

A number of years ago I saw Pat Robertson rail against GPS devices as he was sure that "they" could see were you were in addition to you knowing where you were. He did not want the Government to be able to track you. At least not the government of that heathen George HW Bush.

On the other hand, maybe he just did not want you to know where you were.

OnStar knows where my car is if they are interested. Cell phones by definition can pin-point your location as any transmitter can.

It's pointless to track everybody in the country (or world) when the tracking device is based on voluntary compliance. Disable the device and you are "invisible".

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. The real irony is...

Read "The Late Great Planet Earth," the "prophetic" work of provenly failed prophet (and thus, by definition, servant of Satan) and "700 Club" commentator Hal Lindsay. Back in the 70s, he predicted that ATM cards and/or bar codes would be the "mark of the beast" and was extremely strident in his view that true Christians avoided cash machines, credit cards and any store that used bar code technology. Latter books made the same claims about implanted RFID chips. And now, he and the other Talibangelicals are pushing this technology as vital and necessary for the safety of America.

What is it that Revelations says about the Antichrist coming in the guise of true faith, offering protection from the woes of life and deceiving a great many of the faithful?

[EstimatedProphet]

15. Y'know, I've tried to make that point for a long time

Revelation talks about the AntiChrist being worshipped in place of the true Christ, which is how he manages to deceive people. He doesn't rail against religion, he passes his false beliefs off as true Christianity. Sounds like Falwell to me...

[papau]

3. "Dominionists" has no specific meaning except as a dump - why not RW

GOP theological conservatives as the term of choice - as in Jerry Falwell?

There have even been attempts to equate all theological conservatives with fascism by use of the broad brush term "Dominionists"- as with Bush's well documented "inherent powers" claim and authoritarian political ideology that is willing to mix church and state.

The use of the term "Dominionists" that arose in the last 20 years is too broad brush. IMO, and in many circles is used as a dump on all theological conservatives - regardless of their specific beliefs or specific political policies.

That said - all the items you have pictured seem inoffensive and actually rather nice and might make nice gifts. Where can they be purchased?

[EstimatedProphet]

5. You think Dominionists is too broad a term?

I thought I was being specific, actually...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

This is a generalized description, but it still works.

The term "dominionism" originated in the late 1980s to describe the activities of portions of the Christian Right in the United States;<1> but has been used to discuss similar trends in Canada, and several European countries. Some critics argue that the most militant theocratic forms of "dominionism" have had a direct influence upon the more moderate Christian Right;<3><6> and that dominionism in general raises issues regarding separation of church and state in the United States.<4><5>

Bruce Barron observes "in the context of American evangelical efforts to penetrate and transform public life, the distinguishing mark of a dominionist is a commitment to defining and carrying out an approach to building society that is self-consciously defined as exclusively Christian, and dependent specifically on the work of Christians, rather than based on a broader consensus" <2> (p. 14, italics in original). According to Barron, the "idea of Christian dominion, though with less emphasis on biblical law, has been echoed within the Charismatic movement, that segment of American Christianity identified by its free-spirited, demonstrative worship and its practice of spiritual gifts such as tongue speaking and prophecy." For example, well-known Charismatic preacher Pat Robertson reaches millions of viewers weekly through his "700 Club" television program. "Robertson's explicit emphasis on the need to restore Christians to leadership roles in American society mirrors what" Barron called, "a dominionist impulse in contemporary evangelicalism" <2> (p. 12).

The idea of separation of church and State is basic to the United States. These people are trying to get rid of it. They are also typically exclusive in their economic habits, and often buy and sell to people they determine to be "Christians" - which generally means other Dominionists.

As far as where they came from, the pictures are from various sites off the web. I picturegoogled "christian fish"

[papau]

8. Thanks for the wiki - It and I agree as to the folks "covered" - and yes -its too broad IMO

It is the mixing of church and state so the church has any police or governmental authority over non-believers that is wrong.

The term swept all evangelicals into one group - and most do not want to mix church and state, they just want the standard level of don't get in my face and insult me or my beliefs - or non-beliefs - that we all want.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. And that I agree with

It's too late for me to edit out the term, sorry.

I don't have any problem with people having evangelical beliefs. I don't have any problem with people wanting to share their beliefs. But when people talk about forced exclusion of people from the country, I have a big problem. I don't believe in Satan, but if Satan does exist, I can't picture a better way for him to operate than by trying to corrupt the true message of Christianity into a tool of opression.

[papau]

16. :) thanks for the agreement - peace :-)

:-)

[YOY]

4. "Dominionists"??? Just call them "the asswipes who succeeded in

changing a religion that was supposed to be about peace, love, and caring for your neighbor into an apocalyptic cult."

That one is sooooo much better and accurate

[EstimatedProphet]

6. See the above reply

I was trying to be specific, actually, because I know for a fact that there are Christians who don't believe in exclusivity and an economy forced into being a tool of their beliefs. I'm one myself.

Besides, your description is too long to fit in the subject line.

[terip64]

7. Kick

[Sadie4629]

11. Why does this bother you?

Seems to me that people should be able to wear whatever they choose to wear. Do you have a problem with Islamic women in this country covering their hair? If someone wants to wear a dorky Jesus hat, then that's their choice. Would you outlaw Jesus hats?

Same goes for people patronizing whichever businesses they choose for whatever reason they choose. Should the government shut down businesses belonging to people of a certain religious group *coughnazigermanycough* just because you don't think other people should choose to patronize that business?

I don't know of any Christians, "dominionist" or otherwise, who think they can install the Apocolypse by doing anything. I know true evangelical Christians, what you would probably term dominionist and what others would call "fundy." They believe that the Apocolypse will happen in God's time regardless of what they do.

[EstimatedProphet]

14. Why does it bother me?

Really?

You really don't know of any fundamentalists who believe they can bring about the apocalypse? Have you heard about the church in Oklahoma that is trying to breed a red bull so that it will be ready to sacrifice at the temple of Jerusalem? (Anybody help me out with a link here?) Did you see the guy on the Daily Show the other night who believes global warming is a sign of the apocalypse, and wants it to increase? Are you aware of Pat Robertson's efforts last summer to buy land in Israel, and his attempt to influence Israeli politics to try and goad the Middle East into more war? Ever hear of the Chalcedon Foundation? There's a lot of people who think they should be working to bring about the apocalypse. Look at Jesus Camp and the Rapture Ready board if you aren't aware of it.

And by the way, I'm not the one calling for the government to shut down Christian businesses. The Christian Reconstructionists (since people don't think Dominionists really applies) are the ones who are trying to rebuild the US as a Christian state, including shutting down businesses which aren't "christian" by their definition. If you want to call someone a Nazi, they make a much better target than i do.

I didn't call for any outlawing of anything in my original post. I didn't call for banning anyone, or shutting down businesses by the government. If you saw that anywhere in my posts, then you need to reread them. What I am talking about is that the prinicple of reclaiming the nation for Christ, as they put it, is a form of bigotry itself. The Book of Revelation, which they adore so much, warns against the very behavior they use to try and see it replace US law.

[shenmue]

13. At first I thought it was tinfoil-hat time...

My crazy-person-detector goes off whenever somebody starts droning about Revelation, sorry.

Then I read the rest of the post, and it was hilarious. Thanks. :thumbsup: