Are you tired of angry narrow minded bigots saying "not a good Christian"?

[Mr_Spock]

I am.

Who are you to judge another?

Go and worship your Jesus doll idol shapes and leave me alone...

Go kill the hated race of the day for fun while you're at it...

Go to your Texas church and gleefully cheer about nuking millions of people...

:nuke:

God Bless the USA

:eyes:

[Dookus]

1. Well

it happens on both sides of the aisle.

People here say fundie right-wingers aren't real christians, and they say liberals aren't real christians. :shrug:

No way to tell who's right.

[Mr_Spock]

7. You are right

Though both judge, the RWNJ's are more likely to use the actual "church words" as a weapon.

[u4ic]

2. Out of the religious loop for a while

but I thought only god could make that judgement?

[autorank]

3. Hell, I'm sick 'n tired of "Have a Blessed Day."

What is that about? Are you blessing me without my permission or seeking some deity to do the same? Maybe my "blessed day" is different than your "blessed day." Lets say I want to go to the track, blow some cash, and hoist a few. Is that OK or am I now "blessed."

God, and I mean you God, I find this phrase annoying!

[Glenda]

14. I looked to see where you live...

No one's ever told me to have a Blessed Day

*whew*!

:eyes:

[autorank]

20. Well, Glenda, I live in a state of perpetual grace!

I'm in No. Virginia, home of the internet and lots of technoids. But there are those who feel the need to bless me. I'm sure they're upthere in Western Mass or perhaps Woostah! They're coming to bless you, be sure you're ready!

[Glenda]

21. No one has blessed me

Maybe I need to get out more !

[autorank]

22. OK, get ready...are you ready...

Glenda, Have a Blessed Day! :yourock:

[liberalpress]

42. Going to the track, blowing some cash, and hoisting a few...

...I'm a Christian and even I think that would be a blessed day!

[TahitiNut]

4. People go to hospitals because they're physically ill or injured.

Guess why they go to churches? :evilgrin:

[ChairOne]

5. Because they're stupid? Dunno - I give up - why? /eom

[applegrove]

6. The ones who don't follow the golden rule are the untrue. We can

tell my the contents of one's heart. (And that doesn't mean you deny all your baser instincts and apply them to your enemy - like fundie do as they mirror George Bush). It means you build a country based on the emotions Jesus valued. And there are many, many Liberals who would describe themselves as atheist, who make better Christians than the ones running around and creating hate.

Tell me - were those kids who ran around the dorms and put 'red stars' on the professors they didn't like, were they acting christian?

[Mr_Spock]

9. "Liberals ... describe themselves as atheist, who make better Christians"

tell me about it - that's my point exactly

[applegrove]

25. Check out this cool poster!

http://www.jcu.edu/philosophy/gensler/goldrule.htm

[Mr_Spock]

26. Yup, do unto others...

So I say "get out of my face" - 'cause I ain't in your's :D (not you poster)

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

8. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that said the following:

Going to church every Sunday doesn't make one a good Christian. Does going to a garage make one a car?

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

10. I believe in treating people with respect and treating them as you'd

want to be treated. I may not go to synagogue every Sabbath or keep a kosher home, but I do try to be kind to others, be charitable...in essence...do the right thing.

[Mr_Spock]

12. Another "right on" analogy

Thanks for that one - I'm gonna remember that :D

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

13. I saw it and thought, "good one!"

Actually, right next to it was a sticker that said, "Protected by witchcraft." I was wondering if the driver of the vehicle it belonged to was owned by this lady who is suing Chesterfield County (here in VA...not surprisingly) because she is being denied the right to do the invocation to the Board of Supervisors' meeting as she is a Wiccan. Here's the story if you're interested (I think she has a point, actually).

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17347

<snip>

RICHMOND, Va. — A woman who practices a religion rooted in witchcraft is suing the Chesterfield County Board of Supervisors for refusing to add her name to a list of clergy invited to open board meetings with a prayer.

The American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State filed the lawsuit Dec. 6 in U.S. District Court on behalf of Cynthia Simpson, a Wiccan.

The lawsuit claims that the board discriminated against Simpson based on her religion by inviting Christian clergy to deliver invocations while refusing to allow her to do so.

"The county's treatment of Ms. Simpson amounts to the marking of Wicca with an official badge of dishonor," the lawsuit says. "It represents nothing less than overt, official governmental disapproval of a religious tradition."

The lawsuit accuses the board of violating the First Amendment's freedom of religion and separation of church and state clauses, as well as the constitutional guarantee of equal protection.

<snip>

[Mr_Spock]

16. Though not the main theme of my post - she does have a point

If it's good for one, it's good for all - otherwise, who is to decide which religion is best? That's EXACTLY what it means to be an American - it's called freedom (from RW persecution and fascist conformity).

[quaker bill]

11. Yes I am

Christians established and have lead the peace movement for generations. It was Christians who lead the movement to abolish slavery. It was Christians who lead the movement for equal rights for women and minorities. Remember the Martin Luther King and the SCLC? (Southern Christian Leadership Conference)

It is Christian Peace Making team members that are risking their lives right now to escort Palestinian school children past Israeli military checkpoints on the West Bank.

It was dedicated Christians that raised the funds and supplies needed to provide relief in opposition to Reagan's contra war on Nicaragua.

I am actually tired of both sides trashing the reputations of real Christians in this argument.

[RevCheesehead]

15. Amen.

"I am actually tired of both sides trashing the reputations of real Christians in this argument."

[Mr_Spock]

19. Well, the right-wingers seem to bring it upon themselves...

Nobody is forcing them to invoke scripture to justify their positions.

Nobody forced them to cheer when a Repuke congressman said we should "nuke Syria" and that he would personally fly the plane.

Nobody is forcing them to name God as a co-conspirator in their commision of war-crimes in Iraq.

They do have the option of keeping their PRIVATE religion to themselves.

I'm not saying if I'm a Christian because THAT IS MY BUSINESS!

I do try ...

[quaker bill]

29. There are lots of idiots

Some of them misuse the Bible. I am as tired of them making a mockery of faith as I am tired of the secular left trashing it.

[Mr_Spock]

32. How can people "trash" faith?

Isn't that a personal kinda thing?

Can anybody "trash" something they are not familiar with - ir is it being bad mouthed because of the Bible misusers who try to SHOVE IT DOWN EVERYBODY's THROAT.

Can you tell that I want these people to stay out of my face and prey (deliberate) in private.

[quaker bill]

37. see posts 4 and 5 above

No, actually, faith is personal only on the smallest dimension, it only comes to life in community with others.

Faith, by it's very nature cannot be "shoved down" anyone's throat. Those who try are severly mislead.

Now as to your desires, you are welcome to them. The unfortunate bit is that in a free society, they are welcome to their desires as well.

[Mr_Spock]

38. If you think that someone who makes a joke about going to church

is for "sick" people has ANYTHING to do with faith, then you are extremely confused about what faith is. If you think faith is personal only in the "smallest" dimension, then I have nothing to say to you that will make any sense. Faith, by definition, is a personal endeavor. I understand that community is important, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHARE YOUR PERSONAL FAITH TO HAVE GOOD COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn it - what are you thinking?

[quaker bill]

39. It is fairly simple really

No, I am afraid faith is not a personal endeavor niether by definition nor by practice. It is not defined by the creeds or philosophical constructs one holds dear. It is not the sum of the rituals you attend. At most, these amount to only the outer husk of the real item. Faith is in its essence transformative.

In that it is transformative, faith, truly possessed, informs your choices on a day to day and moment to moment basis. Do I share my faith with others? To some extent it is unavoidable as how I choose to interact with people on a moment to moment basis is a product of it.

Philosophy is a personal endeavor. However, faith is a gestalt that only exists in the context of community. Can I share a sense of it with you? Beyond this, not really.

[Mr_Spock]

40. I can't even agree with your "definitions"

It IS a personal thing for me - I do understand why you can't "share a sense" of it with me. You can't because you know I would get a different answer from every person I asked - meaning that it, of course, IS defined by the individual. Describing it as a "gestalt" or "summation of many parts that can't be separated" is a typical ploy so that you do not have to delve into areas of thought that are uncomfortable for you. I'm perfectly at ease with my existence and I know I am going to leave this decaying shell of a body at some point in the future. The concept or thought of it doesn't bother me at all. None of us is any better or worse than another - separating into separate "faith" groups only serves to divide us - it makes people who don't share that "brand" unhappy. "Do no harm"

[ChairOne]

17. LOL - You ever look at some of the other things christians do? /eom

[quaker bill]

30. All the time

I don't care for them much either.

[applegrove]

18. I agree. But those that hide under 'christian' as a tool to isolate others

how do you feel about them?

[quaker bill]

31. I think they do great harm

To themselves, society, and the Christian message. I find them to be ill-informed victims of apostacy.

[applegrove]

34. Very sad to see religion being used as tool of power again. Very sad

since religion should pretty much be a great thing - a gift at this point in the Enlightenment.

[Zen]

23. I'm tired of it

Leave us alone.

[countmyvote4real]

24. As I recall, that just seems to be standard procedure.

I have removed myself from any organized religious Christian activities. However, back in the day when I was compelled by my parents to attend any number of events at variously favored Southern Baptist Churches; the behavior of the regular congregation did not always jive with their teachings.

I know that introduction might lead you to any number of scandals, from Satan worship to sex with goats. OK, maybe that’s the same thing. But the actual offense I recall is very different and not even on that scale, and yet the outrage was just the same.

The offense was a remark from a church leader’s wife about another woman’s cookies. More to the point, she declined another bite after her first taste. (Is it just me or does this now seem ripe with subtext? Believe me, it’s not there as I remember it.) People got to talking, and eventually this was a matter for inflammatory discussion in front of the entire congregation during a monthly business meeting.

In hindsight it is both sad and silly. But you know what? Nobody had to leave that church. Nobody had to die. No cookie recipes were purged or banished from the next edition of the church cookbook. In time, we found another church, but I don’t remember the exact reason. Most likely it was a location thing, but I know there were times when it was because of a silly “cookie” interpretation.

Anyway, my point is that the tenants of Christ are very noble. However, Christianity is often misconstrued by organized religious groups when those groups selectively focus upon a particular cookie.

God bless.

[maveric]

27. Who the FUCK are THEY to judge people and hold them to THEIR

standards?

[Mr_Spock]

28. Exactly. n/m

[TWiley]

33. Hallelujah, and pass the ammunition.

Bush wants to mandate religious discrimination where corps who want to hire only Christians would be able to do that without penalty. Soon you will need to be white, male, married, 3 children, have 6 American flags on the car, and be a republican-born-again-Christian to have a job that pays above minimum wage.

Remember the Stasi?

Welcome to the 4th Reich.

[Bouncy Ball]

35. I like to say

"What does it say about your spirituality that you would question mine?"

[Mr_Spock]

36. Exactly, where does it say that being a good Christian means rubbing it

in another person's face. People who do this haven't the slightest idea what Jesus (or most spirtual leaders for that matter) was all about. The irony of it all is one of the most stunning things I have had to experience in my lifetime. Radical liberal king of the jews - right wing nut job?? What???

[Igel]

41. I had a bit of a quarrel last night with a DUer that thought

that refusing to call somebody a non-Xian or un-Christian meant that I could never criticize the person.

I've met people that said anybody worshipping the cross could not be Xian, and that those that rejected the cross as a symbol couldn't be Xian. That those that observed the dietary laws couldn't be Xian, and that those who didn't observe the dietary laws couldn't be Xian. Or that those that didn't sell their house and tv and live like the poor couldn't be a Xian, and that those who didn't provide sufficiently for their families couldn't be Xian. That those who rejected gays couldn't be Xian, and those that thought a gay lifestyle was perfectly ok weren't Xians. Everybody was more than happ
I have my beliefs. I may criticize somebody's actions and say that I think they're wrong, and give my reasons--as well as listen to the other person's reasons for why they think they're right--but I'm not going to say that they have no relationship with Christ when one side says they do, and the other is silent on the matter for the time being.

[Mr_Spock]

43. I like your post - I feel the same way about much of this subject

There is SO much hypocrisy, SO many paradoxes, that without a blind faith - which I don't have, I cannot comprehend what type of "mind clamp" a person must have to apply to feel good about themselves as they apply standards that can only lead to the ostracization of others in the society. How do people live with this knowledge? Exactly - they have to close off their minds to the hypocrisy and the paradoxes - I can't do that because I believe in living the way Jesus described - ie, do no harm, do not judge - lead by example and not by rejection.