CNN commentary: "I've grown tired of people who pimp God."

[DeepModem Mom]

Commentary: What would Jesus really do?
April 6, 2007
By Roland Martin
CNN Contributor
(Editor's note: Roland Martin is a CNN contributor and talk-show host on WVON-AM in Chicago, Illinois. He is the author of "Listening to the Spirit Within: 50 Perspectives on Faith.")


CNN contributor Roland Martin says a holy war is going on among Christians.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- When did it come to the point that being a Christian meant caring about only two issues,­ abortion and homosexuality?

Ask the nonreligious what being a Christian today means, and based on what we see and read, it's a good bet they will say that followers of Jesus Christ are preoccupied with those two points.

Poverty? Whatever. Homelessness? An afterthought. A widening gap between the have and have-nots? Immaterial. Divorce? The divorce rate of Christians mirrors the national average, so that's no big deal....

***

As a layman studying to receive a master's in Christian communications, and the husband of an ordained minister, it's troubling to listen to "Christian radio" and hear the kind of hate spewing out of the mouths of my brothers and sisters in the faith.

In fact, I've grown tired of people who pimp God. That's right; we have a litany of individuals today who are holy, holy, holy, sing hallelujah, talk about how they love the Lord, but when it's time to walk the walk, somehow the spirit evaporates....

***

An African-American pastor I know in the Midwest was asked by a group of mostly white clergy to march in an anti-abortion rally. He was fine with that, but then asked the clergy if they would work with him to fight crack houses in predominantly black neighborhoods.

"That's really your problem," he was told....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/04/martin.jesus/index.html

[cosmik debris]

1. I find it interesting how Christian values shift with social class

But what do I know?

[MistressOverdone]

28. I think pretty much everything shifts with

social class, including toilet paper.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Another comment that comes close to what I said years ago.

Though I called it "pimping Jesus."

[cosmik debris]

4. What we need here

Is an image of JC in stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, miniskirt, halter top, and a bad wig with too much makeup. Use your imagination.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. The right-wing will never see it as satire that brings out their hypocrisy.

[Fridays Child]

3. I watched a couple of minutes of this. Falwell tried to say it's...

...the media's fault that the public associates only abortion and gay marriage with Christianity.

[varkam]

6. He *almost* hit upon a really fantastic point.

He gets two very big thumbs up from me with respect to his recognition that there are other social ills that deserve our attention. In my opinion, he simply did not go far enough. He still legitimized the gay marriage and abortion issues as being legitimate ones, which, any person with half a brain should be able to realize that they are trivial hot-button issues that pale in comparison to the horrors visited upon real human beings. Jesus said nada about gay marriage, and he wasn't very talkative when it came to abortion, either (which Mr. Martin hits upon). But further legitimizing those issues as moral imperatives is just feeding the beast.

I noticed one of the responses on the website criticized Mr. Martin's brushing-aside of the abortion issue because little innocent babies are being "murdered". I would agree with that statement, but disagree with where such horrors are occurring. They are not occurring in abortion clinics or hospitals, they are occurring in third-world countries like Darfur and Bangladesh. Hell, the United States ranks 20th in the world in infant mortality.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that it's ironic to me that such individuals cloak themselves with the moniker "pro-life" when their actions and words are anything but. They refuse to try to change or even acknowledge the conditions that result in abortion in the first place (i.e. limited access to contraception, abstinence-only education), do nothing to aid in the adoption process, are not advocates of universal health coverage, do not work with organizations like MSF to provide medical care to children in third-world countries, and are more often than not pro-death penalty.

The fact is, I look at Christians who take the "culture of life" thing seriously with respect. Such individuals may be against abortion on personal grounds, but they also realize that there are much bigger issues to be dealt with - such as keeping people alive today.

[knitter4democracy]

7. That's my new saying.

:) I'm adding it to a friend's saying from our evangelical college days: "I'm sick and tired of whiny Christian!!!" :)

[roguevalley]

8. these are surface Christians, literalists. Some of them are slightly awake

to what it actually means to be a Christian but because people have mythologized Jesus and his message, they believe all they have to do is 'accept him', go to church and they will be 'saved'. Too bad they miss the real, true message of Jesus because they have meshed Jesus and God together. Among other things.

[grannylib]

9. The faith of the most vocal "Christians" today seems to be a mile wide and

a micromillimeter deep. It's all hot-button, litmus-test issues designed to put people with certain beliefs in power; it has NOTHING to do with living a life of service or embodying Christ for those around them...

I like the experiment that Jim Wallis from Sojourner's writes about in his book; a Bible study leader in college challenged him to try this. Take two identical Bibles, and out of one, cut every reference to abortion and homosexuality. Out of the other, cut every reference to the poor.
The first Bible will hang together quite well, both physically and theologically; you would hardly notice anything missing. The second Bible will be falling apart, both physically and theologically; there will be huge chunks missing and there will be much of Jesus' message gone altogether.

But hey, who's JC when we got GW, right??? :sarcasm:

Happy Freakin' Easter...

[undergroundpanther]

10. Well the bible can be interpreted

many ways the text is sufficiently ambiguous enough to mean radically different things to different people..If the interpreters desire is to control masses and pimp jesus the bible will be the words of rationalization of evil..

I think more Christians need to understand what the sacred function of texts like the bible do with it's verbal ambiguity with teaching .The interpretation of said texts say alot about revealing of the heart and intent of a "believer" and why he believes.

If ones heart is evil in intent, but he looks like a "good christian". Then watch him, observe which bible verses he uses most and why and what parts of the bible he neglects to say in his interpretations of morals or christianity for others ..

A Christian of evil heart makes a jesus of evil by favoring bible verses that reinforce his own unspoken evil agendas and hate.For it can become very clear for detecting this kind of fake christian that has no truth in him like his father the archon.Oh the hypocrite.

I'm not a christian but I've studied it and found out this interesting phenomena of revealing believers character flaws like narcissism through the chosen usage of scripture and use of certain interpretations of it and certain choices of which verses are preferred by said christian. This revealing phenomena also applies to most text called sacred as well.Just watch what they say be wise as serpents..Ask...
What kind of god do they see in jesus?

The Archon?

Or truth and spiritual liberation?

[Kurovski]

11. K&R. (nt)

[rambler_american]

12. Modern Christians

have learned all of the stories in the Bible and none of the lessons. I am constantly amazed that non-believers on the left more closely follow the teachings of Jesus than do the right wing born again bigots.

[Danger Mouse]

13. It's almost embarassing to be a Christian these days.

I hate being associated with these people. Oh well, what can you do?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. where does that almost come from?

the fundies who take out cardboard Ws, so the kids can speak in tongues and pray to our Dearest Leader?

[Danger Mouse]

18. Speaking in tongues...an amusing practice.

The spirit moves them...to fork over more money to the local con artist who uses strong words and emotion to convince people that 'God is in them,' and even more so if they have deep pockets. The flock has become mindless, bland-eyed, bleating sheep, contentedly filing their way to be sheared and stripped clean.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. I gave it up myself when I was 2. nt

[gbate]

39. I have given up on religion. I'm much happier now.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

40. bravo, or brava, as appropriate.

and in this day and age, BRAVE. too many people demand that we follow their beliefs.

[cosmik debris]

15. I've often wondered why progressive Christians

Don't find some way to distinguish themselves from the fundies. If both groups use the same title it should be understandable that no one can tell the difference. And many of us don't want to waste our time trying to figure out which is which. We just leave them alone. It is up to you guys to show that you are different.

[Danger Mouse]

17. I've always done my best to distinguish myself from those types.

By my actions and so forth. I mean, I realize that people who know me realize I'm not like those fundies, the problem is, as different from them as I am, they are still Christian, still part of my faith, and still my 'brothers' and 'sisters' in faith, as bitter of a pill as it is for me to swallow.
I'm not one who will try to argue that they're 'not true Christians' because who defines what a true Christian is anyway?
The issue is, no matter what I do or how I distinguish myself, I am associated with fundies because I am of the same faith as them (on the surface of it at least). I'm not blaming people for making the association...I make the association myself.
I am not sure what we can do about these beasts that have hijacked Christianity...sometimes it feels like there are more of the wackjobs than there are progressives.

[cosmik debris]

20. I suggest a new label

If you identify yourself as "_____Christian" rather than just a Christian it would help. I know it sounds commercial, but branding has you at a disadvantage. You need new brand identification, a new logo, symbol and name. Otherwise, you will always be known as a member of the same group as Jerry Falwell.

[Irishonly]

21. Liberal/Mainstream

I got tired of telling people I wasn't a Christian like Bush and his ilk. I tell then my goal is to live more Christlike and I don't believe God whispers into a madman's ear to invade countries.

[westerebus]

22. The benefit of the doubt?

So if my brother is mentally challenged, for lack of a better modifier "retarded"; you are owed an apology? If that's the moral high ground you've taken, I'm surprised. I've read your posts and find you articulate and insightful. Didn't think you that narrow minded.

[cosmik debris]

25. Wait a minute.

I didn't say anything about retardation, moral high ground or apologies. Where did you get that? Your post doesn't seem to fit the context of my post.

[westerebus]

32. I know you didn't.

The constant in many similar threads is the embarrassed progressive christians looking to find some common ground with their atheist brethren. How they find it repulsive to be put in the lumpen of christians who support *. This is not to start a war with you. Far from it. Your counsel to find a means to distinguish themselves from their "crazy uncle" is right in front of us. They're here in common cause and unified purpose as far as I can tell. To end the war,fight poverty,advance education,promote peace, to name a few.
Yes,I know there are those who are more concerned with the speck in your eye and can't see the 2x4 in their own. That's paraphrased from some where in the new testament, but you already knew that.
So my question is....sorry, my crazy mentally impaired brother just set the world on fire and is running for congress on the clean underwear platform...Thanks for your time.

[cosmik debris]

33. Best regards to you and your brother. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. it probably started out as strength in numbers crap.

then, they found themselves pushed out of organizations, much like moderate GOPers found themselves naked with the Neocon minority firmly in control.

[kwassa]

24. I have often wondered why atheists ....

those who "lack a belief in God" find a new term to distinguish themselves from atheists who actively believe that there is no God.

"If both groups use the same title it should be understandable that no one can tell the difference. And many of us don't want to waste our time trying to figure out which is which. We just leave them alone. It is up to you guys to show that you are different."

I think that much of the flack that atheists get is from people who have the old, traditional definition of atheism, and don't understand that you newer atheists are talking about something else entirely.

Frankly, it isn't up to either side to show that they are different from people with the same name, it is up to the viewer to become educated about them.

Progressive Christians has no responsibility to differentiate themselves from other Christians. You just need to do your own homework, in my opinion.

[cosmik debris]

26. We have found a new labels

One new label is Ignostic. Ignostics believe that since god obviously has no impact, influence, or control over the real world, the issue of god's existence is irrelevant. Debate on the existence of god is pointless until someone presents evidence that can be tested for validity and relevance.

Other new labels are weak atheist and strong atheists. And as I suggested, this follows the pattern of adding a modifier to Christian to make "_____Christian".

In other words, we are making an effort to clarify the issue. Are you?

[MistressOverdone]

30. Perhaps a T-shirt?

Tattoo on the forehead? Little brass ID bar? Or bar-coded thing you hang around your neck:

weak atheist
strong atheist
agnostic
mean atheist
nice atheist
annoying atheist
bad Christian
good Christian
fundamentalist
progressive Christian
cafeteria Catholic
annoying Christian


I really think I'm onto something here.

[kwassa]

36. yeah, but what atheist wants to call themselves "weak"?

It might lead to self-esteem issues.

[cosmik debris]

37. Many atheists call themselves weak atheists

Once again, when facts get in the way, you just ignore them.

After all, dogma should never be compromised by facts. :)

[kwassa]

38. I was trying to make a joke.

Keep your shirt on.

Aren't their muscular atheists, like muscular Christians? or only the 90-lb. weaklings?

And I have no dogma whatsoever.

[MistressOverdone]

41. I'm pretty sure Kwassa knows that

we've certainly had discussions here about strong/weak atheists.

[Random_Australian]

42. I think it's a stronger position, so I say "implicit"

[MistressOverdone]

29. Personally I feel no need

to defend myself. I know who I am and what I believe. If folks tend to lump us all together, well, then I guess they are the same ones who lump minorities together and stereotype their characteristics.

I don't need to show anyone I'm different. I don't think that's part of the mandate. Somewhere back there I have this memory of Christ saying that people will hate you for following him.

[cosmik debris]

31. People hate you for not following too.

You just can't win.

[MistressOverdone]

34. That's the way of life

please half the people, piss off the other hand. No getting around it!

[JerseygirlCT]

35. I think that's where we feel actions speak louder than words, or er

titles.

I can't control what some blowhard television preacher has to say. I can only control what I say. I also cannot control your choice to group us together. I can only hope that example will eventually show you that that grouping isn't really useful.

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. Your reminds me of something G K Chesterton once wrote: Christianity

has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found hard, and left untried."

[Leopolds Ghost]

27. That's "A Pimp Named Jehovah" -- to you.

You've got to say the whole thing to get it right.

Preacher, I don't PAY you to hang around and talk about anything but sex!

Now get back on those TV talk shows before I break out my belt!

-- A Pimp Named Jehovah :evilgrin: