President Lincoln and God

[DeepModem Mom]

WP, "On Faith": President Lincoln's Secret
By Allen C. Guelzo

....there were secrets about Lincoln’s religion about which even (his law partner William Henry) Herndon’s guesses failed. Lincoln had been raised in a family of pious, ultra-Calvinist Baptists, soaking up a substantial amount of sermons, hymns, and Scripture. He might not have believed “as a rational man…that the Bible was the peculiar, only, and special revelation of God,” but according to Herndon, Lincoln remained “superstitious, believed more or less in dreams, consulted negro oracles, had apparitions and tried to solve them.” And as he grew older -- and wiser about things that antagonize voters -- he agreed with the “absolute necessity of some form of Christianity, and never did, after reflection, attempt to disturb any man’s opinion,” his law partner wrote.

Lincoln’s election to the presidency, just in time to see the country fall into civil war, presented him with a different set of challenges to his meager stock of religious belief. Lincoln expected a quick and direct restoration of the Union. But in battle after battle, the Union armies were handed humiliating defeats. The president could make no logical sense of this apparent contradiction of progress. After a year-and-a-half of seemingly fruitless bloodshed, he concluded that God had taken a direct hand in events to stymie the war’s progress so long as it was waged for purely political purposes, and to force Lincoln to recognize that the war must be turned in a moral direction that spoke directly to the crime of slavery.

This insight is what eventually drove Lincoln to depart from the policy direction with which he had begun the war, and to issue the Emancipation Proclamation. To the astonishment of his Cabinet, Lincoln explained that his decision to issue the Proclamation was a “vow” he had made “to myself, and...to my Maker.”

In his Second Inaugural Address, Lincoln came as close to preaching a sermon as any U.S. President has ever dared utter. The war, he said, was not a struggle between a righteous Union and evil slaveholders – both North and South had been complicit in the crime of slavery, and the war was a judgment that God had chosen to bring on the entire nation “until all the wealth piled by the bond-man’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword.” Only by submitting to that national judgment, Lincoln told his audience, could “malice toward none” and “charity for all” follow....

(Allen C. Guelzo is Director of Civil War Era Studies and the Henry R. Luce Professor of the Civil War Era at Pennsylvania’s Gettysburg College.)

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/02/the_presidents_secret.html

[madrchsod]

1. it is so sad

this almost makes me cry

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Lincoln's spiritual evolution is an interesting topic for study

He was definately a fatalist, and believed in oracles--a fortune teller in New Orleans told him as a youth that he would rise to high office. When he lived in New Salem, it is said he wrote a paper for the local debating society questioning the existance of God; this was later suppressed. He never formally joined a church; he was leery of ministers like Peter Cartwright who mixed religion with politics (Cartwright was doing this in a sermon/stump speech he was giving; he asked all those who wished to go to heaven to rise--all did except Lincoln. Cartwright asked Lincoln if he thought he was going to hell. Lincoln replied, "No, I'm going to Congress."), and had to be encouraged by members of his cabinet to place references to God in speeches and documents.

In a book I read recently, it was postulated that Lincoln did not believe in an afterlife; the only way you lived on was in the memory of those who knew you. This actually fueld his ambition, which was to do something to gain the esteem of his fellow men so that his memory would remain alive.
(See "Team of Rivals" by Doris Kearns Goodwin)

[DeepModem Mom]

3. Very interesting! Thanks for your post. nt

[trotsky]

4. Lincoln, if he believed in a god, was alright by me.

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." - A. Lincoln

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trotsky]

6. Umm, okay.

Feeling grumpy today?

[bryant69]

7. No more so than usual

But of course Abraham Lincoln was no Christian because he was such a great man and it would be painful to admit that such a great man was of the other tribe, wouldn't it?

Bryant

[trotsky]

8. Wouldn't be painful at all.

Some of the greatest figures of history have been devout Christians - doesn't pain me in the least to admit it.

But when some Christians try to rewrite that history to claim someone as their own, well, shouldn't we strive for historical accuracy?

[bryant69]

9. Exactly - if those filthy Christians try to steal your Lincoln you have no choice

but to defend yourself. And of course the accuracy of the historical record.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[trotsky]

10. Wow.

I never called Christians "filthy," but I do believe that historical figures should be represented accurately. I'm not going to apologize for that. Go find someone else to be mad at.

[bryant69]

11. Representated accurately as not a Christian

I understand completely. He's part of your tribe, and it's wrong for religious types to claim some kinship with him. I mean after all that one quote is the historical record and it's not like there is any other evidence whatsoever on his religious feelings. Christians must be crazy to want to see kinship with him.

Bryant

[Az]

13. Um dude... there is like a lot of hatred in your heart

It ain't healthy. Let it go.

[bryant69]

14. Not sure how to respond to this

Oh you are right I was motivated solely out of hatred, and now that I've let it go I feel so much better. Thank you thank you for opening my eyes. Hatred is wrong. You've made me a better person. Thank you so much.

I still think American Christians can claim kinship with Lincoln though. But I understand why the idea offends Trotsky.

Bryant

[trotsky]

15. I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

It doesn't "offend" me, no matter how much you try to assign motivations or emotions to me.

[bryant69]

17. I'm wrong in suggesting you are offended?

Or I'm wrong in claiming that Christians might feel kinship with Abraham Lincoln?

Bryant

[trotsky]

18. Aw, someone gave you a heart.

Maybe you'll feel better now and stop looking for a fight.

[bryant69]

21. Good strategy by the way - pretending that our disagreement is . . .

caused by my irrationality. I mean, if I was rationale, I'd be part of your tribe, wouldn't I?

Bryant

[Az]

19. It has nothing to do with kinship

It has to do with misrepresentation of facts. Spin if you will. The entire "This is a Christian nation" canard is built upon such spin and it is what is offensive. Lies are offensive. The simple truth is that Lincoln was not a Christian. He did not accept Jesus as his personal Saviour. He spent much of his life skeptical of the existance of God.

There is a long history of Christians trying to lie significant people into their camp. Darwin is a perfect example. A certain Lady Hope claimed to be present at his deathbed and claimed to take his confession and rejection of evolution. Darwin's wife had to come forward and explain that there was no such person present at his death and that he never recanted his theory. But to this day the story keeps popping up because the some in the Christian community remain determined to undermine anything that they believe undermines their beliefs.

Albert Einstein suffered a similar fate. A life long atheist he was once asked by a prominent Rabbi in an open letter whether he believed in God. Albert's wife advised him to reply diplomatically because then as now atheists were third class citizens and there would have been a social backlash should he not answer the way the public demanded. So he refrenced Spinoza's god. That is he identitified all the laws of nature as god. Not a personal god. It was a semantic shuffle. But it dogged him the rest of his life and the year before his death he finally had to come out and speak clearly that he did not believe in a personal god and that he never had. But people still try to place him in the theist camp.

Its about the lies. The misrepresentation. Yes, we take a bit of pride when we find someone that was able to rise to greatness and able to represent their atheism. Its kind of hard in this society where not professing one's love for Jesus or God can render one's public life null.

[bryant69]

20. Which takes me back to my main point - It's Tribal

Lincoln should be considered part of your tribe.

I personally think Lincoln was a big enough figure in American History to stand between these particular tribes, but I can understand why you might not like that solution. Certainly when Lincoln says "Don't pray that God's on our side, pray that we're on his side" (Which I don't think is an exact quote, but it's the one I found), that's a sentiment I think Christians should be able to get behind.

I think it's not accurate to say that the Lincoln was a mainstream Christian. I certainly think claiming that this as a Christian nation is, at best, a horribly confused and leading statement.

Bryant

[cyborg_jim]

22. Blah, blah, blah

You just aren't listening are you?

Was Lincoln a Christian? Ostensibly not.

It's irrelevant whether or not Christians can identify with him. It just doesn't fucking matter.

[bryant69]

23. Thank you for your participation

Bryant

[Az]

16. Um, He was a human being

He changed his mind about a lot of things. In fact towards the end of his life he began embracing the idea of a Deistic god. It is likely that during a large portion of his life he was in fact an atheist. But good grief. If your basis for respect is based upon his religious convictions then you are never going to find anyone that has the same exact beliefs as yourself.

[Az]

12. Isaac Newton was a Christian and a great thinker

There have been lots of great people that happened to be Christians.

There have been a lot of great people that were atheists as well. But I have been witness to many people tearing them down for not being Chrisian. Carl Sagan is a particular sore spot on that subject. When he died it was like the fundamentalists came out of the woodwork just to mock him.

So please do not presume that tribalism is just something the atheists do. Because it is rare for someone to make it publically known that they are an atheist we tend to take note of those who do simply for the rarity of it. We live in a society that tends to oppress people that do not believe. So the occaisional hero or champion is going to get noticed.