Faith and Belief

[Az]

I have my own theories but I want to hear other input. Is there a difference between Faith and Belief? What do they mean to you? Where do they come from?

Discuss.

[RPM]

1. mine

belief - a position held based upon rational theories derived from either experience or scientific observation.

faith - a position held despite contrary rational theories derived from either experience or scientific observation

[aneerkoinos]

2. My take

Belief is an positivistic existantial statement, "I believe God/ Matter/Ego/etc. exists"

Faith, in it's purest religious form, is the leap of letting go of all existential beliefs.

[Tux]

3. Yeah

Both are related. People need answers to things that can't have an absolute answer. Faith answers it the best it can by holding beliefs. There is no evidence for these beliefs but they allow a person to give meaning to the universe and life so they can hold off the fear of death. That is why each religion speaks of an afterlife first. Since there is no evidence for reincarnation, an eternal place, or oblivion, people hold onto beliefs so they can go about life and not be dominated by fear of the unknown at the moment of death.

Faith also teaches how to deal with others and society. Most religions teach that helping others, treating others well, and letting people live in peace. It does act as a moral compass to members of a faith.

The problem we have now is that Evangelical Christians are trying to force their views onto everyone else. They're scared of non-Christians, intellectual films we had in the 90's that required some education to follow, and any form of change. They demonize other faiths, try to make their beliefs (creationism) law, and control education so kids can be recruited into their cult. Once we're back to the late 1800's in terms of society and technology, they'll be happy as non-Christians are converted or burned alive.

[aneerkoinos]

4. Yo

"Both are related. People need answers to things that can't have an absolute answer. Faith answers it the best it can by holding beliefs. There is no evidence for these beliefs but they allow a person to give meaning to the universe and life so they can hold off the fear of death. That is why each religion speaks of an afterlife first. Since there is no evidence for reincarnation, an eternal place, or oblivion, people hold onto beliefs so they can go about life and not be dominated by fear of the unknown at the moment of death."

I guess you don't then count Buddhism and few other schools as religions, since their view is that Karmic continuity is something to be liberated from, not to stay attached to.

Fear of (especially one's own) death is very western, ultraindividualistically oriented phenomenon. Animal survival instinct is not same as the existential fear of ego.

Reincarnation can be and is understood and explained in many ways, but there is no denying that there is evidence of especially little children sometimes having verified memories of "previous lives".

[Tux]

9. Yo 2

I guess you don't then count Buddhism and few other schools as religions, since their view is that Karmic continuity is something to be liberated from, not to stay attached to.

Still no evidence of reincarnation. Heck, as a kid, I thought I was the reincarnation of Hitler. Kids think and say stupid things. By evidence, I mean proof that can predict an afterlife for a person. I am aware of Buddhists need to be released from karmic rebirth but there is a chance it doesn't exist. We don't know everything about the universe so it's just a belief. I have met Asians that fear death so it is more than a Western idea.

[aneerkoinos]

10. Yo 3

>>By evidence, I mean proof that can predict an afterlife for a person.<<

Well in that case how about you give proof that 'time' and 'person' exist and are just not illusions? ;)

>>I am aware of Buddhists need to be released from karmic rebirth but there is a chance it doesn't exist.<<

Hell yes, that's what Buddhists are counting on, that it doesn't exist, but is just very sticky illusion that is hard to let go of... :)

If you wan't to argue scientifically, in the realm of conventional knowledge, you can't deny any evidence and claim "no evidence". The memories of "past lives" is a fact - explaining that fact is a different question...

[Selwynn]

5. I don't know if there's a true distinction, but I know everyone believes

...and it seems that in this society saying "everyone has faith" would lead people to the wrong interpretation that everyone is religious.

The dictionary says:
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

If a word needs six definitions, it tells me that there's apparently an awful lot of ambiguity in its use. I suppose that faith could therefore be technically used in keeping with definition #1 or #6 to refer to the fact that every affirmative statement we make in life is in some sense a belief that our reasoning for our affirmation is justifiable, since absolutely certaining is impossible. But I think "faith" is obviously more often used in keeping with definitions #4, #2, #5.

Of course, the dictionary as I have been recently reminded is really wholly unauthorative in any sense, so I share this merely for triva purposes. :P

Sel

[trotsky]

6. Too many meanings to pick from.

1) I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow.
2) I believe that little green men live on Mars.

Both are beliefs, but the first is based on repeated physical observations that can be demonstrated. The second is obviously not.

Same with "faith":

1) I have faith that this chair will support my weight without me testing it first.
2) I have faith that Jesus died for my sins.

The first is a form of empirical faith. Through observation and experimentation, I can recognize materials like metal, wood, etc. and know what kind of structural strength they offer. Likewise, I can notice loose screws or inferior workmanship and make a judgment call on whether a chair is safe to sit in. My thousands of real-life encounters with chairs tell me to have faith this next one is OK.

The second is an article of faith one learns from an ancient book of mythology. Even the men who wrote about Jesus were not first-hand witnesses to his life. Many times people will equate these, and claim that scientists "have faith too." I guess it makes them feel more secure in their mythology.

[Selwynn]

7. Az I've been thinking about this question all morning...

..I don't have anything else to add, though. :P

[Az]

8. Mission accomplished

I am wondering whether some people experience stress because of the difference between these two words. Or rather from the effect of them.