Superman Returns is structured as retelling of the story of Jesus.

[Imperialism Inc.]

I am probably late to the game on this one but I watched the movie Superman Returns last night for the second time. The first time I saw it I thought it might be making Christian references but after the second viewing now I'm sure it was intentional as I caught several new things.

Very early on there is a message played from his father talking about how he is sending him to save humanity (paraphrase). There is a discussion with Lois about how people don't need a savior. Eventually Superman is kicked and thrashed about by Lex's henchmen like Jesus in the passion play. He bears his cross (the Kryptonite laced "continent") by pushing it in to outer space which leaves him for dead. When he falls from the sky he does so with arms stretched out in a hanging on a cross pose. The headline reads "Superman is Dead". Mary, er I mean Lois, comes and anoints him with her kiss in the hospital bed where she leaves him for dead. Then the nurse comes in and lo and behold an empty tomb (er, hospital bed). He reappears to his followers (his son and Lois). Makes a speech about the father becoming the son and the son becoming the father and then the movie closes with the ascension (superman flying off into the heavens).

There were just too many parallels for it to be coincidence (there were a few more I didn't list) all in the proper order. I had also read that the original comic character was supposed to have a Christian connection so I think that is why they did it. Like I said it has probably been mentioned before but I just thought it was interesting.

[Little Wing]

1. Agreed

[Kagemusha]

2. Even though that Jerry Siegel guy was plainly Jewish?

I say that because you say, "I had also read that the original comic character was supposed to have a Christian connection so I think that is why they did it." I wouldn't personally know if there's supposed to be any such connection but, the original artist also seems to have had a Jewish last name; it's heresy for Jews to have a Messiah in reality, but you can have a comic book champion of the downtrodden just fine.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Gosh, and to think that Siegel and Schuster were both Jews

(along with Bob Kane, Will Eisner, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby...)

I think your Christian conspiracy theory is shot.

Superman is far more a Moses figure (at least, the original Superman; the movie Superman is just poorly written shit) than a Christ figure.

Though you are right that the last movie (uncreative piece of shit that it was) is very much like the story of Jesus. But then, so are millions of other stories. Basically, in all of literature, there are only a few stories: boy meets girl, lives happily ever after (or both die tragically); person leaves home on quest for some object, but instead finds self and differentiation from parents/culture; person born of low heritage finds out he/she is actually king/savior/queen; person who thinks their life has no meaning turns out to have grand effect on trajectory of human story; person thinks one thing will bring happines, dies miserable and only learns on death bed that they followed an empty dream; and a few others.

The fact that a story is similar to Jesus' story means nothing in and of itself - millions of stories are similar. Doesn't mean that Superman Returns is Christian propaganda, or that there's some conspiracy. Lawrence of Arabia is also like Jesus' story. ET, too.

[Imperialism Inc.]

7. And what does that have to do with my post?

I was writing about the movie. I made one side comment about the comics. And , hmmm, it turns out if you do a search on Superman Jesus you'll get tons of links of discussing the parallels even in the comics. So I had indeed read about it before. Was there really a need to be a complete asshole about it?

[nashville_brook]

9. eh -- is it being said that it's "propaganda" because of an imagined "conspiracy"

or just because it sucked in the way that forced metaphor usually does? my vote is on the latter. it just sucked -- but i think the jesus thread can't be dismissed.

and, just because the creators are jewish, doesn't mean they wouldn't think the metaphor is worth pursuing. at this point, superman has been DONE to death -- i can totally imagine the creatives pitching the jesus angle as broadening the (otherwise crappy) picture's market.

but, i totally agree with the idea that there are a finite number of stories to be told and the jesus "story" is one that has lots of legs in our culture: person is condemned for walking the high road... overcomes the condemnation thru an act of faith/will... never receives recognition for their trouble...

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Sometimes, in answer to your first question, it's hard to tell in this forum.

Perhaps I was overhasty in making the assumption that the OP was trying to find some kind of conspiracy of Christians - but so many do it in threads in this forum.

Clearly, the movie was Jesus-story-like - I agreed with that point in my post. I also agree with you that it was schlock. I mean, geez - the other Superman movies were bad enough, but this last one. Pee-UUU, what a stinking shitstorm.

I also agree with you that Siegel and Schuster would be smart enough to know a good story, and wouldn't hesitate to do a Jesus-like story knowing that it would make people happy (and not because the people would see necessarily any Jesus-reference in the story, but that that genre of story is always a winner, whether it be with a Christian crowd, Jewish crowd, atheist, Busshist, whatever). Just because they were Jewish doesn't mean that they wouldn't go with any story genre that has proven that it works over the centuries and millenia.

But, in case the OP was attempting to find some Christian conspiracy in the Superman story, or trying to propagandize America into some particular Christian faith, I wanted to show that that idea is patently silly. maybe the OP wasn't making that claim, I don't know - as I said, it's hard to tell in this forum.

[nashville_brook]

16. i rarely poke my head in here... should have thought of that...

:)

lately tho, there's been some interesting topics, so i've dipped my toes in.

i spent 20+ years in east tennessee where i got more than my fill of anti-christian reactionism. i'm a lapsed catholic, and the fundamentalist atmosphere was indeed hard to deal with -- BUT, there comes a point where secular-folk become just as bothersome. i love talking about religion, so it's important to me to keep the topic welcoming.

[trotsky]

17. "secular-folk" gave us our Constitution.

I guess a person might find them bothersome if you wanted the government to espouse your religion, but otherwise it's hard to see how.

[nashville_brook]

18. that's not what i meant...

it's bothersome when your friends, who you totally agree with, beat you over the head with anti-ANYTHING messages.

yeah, we all felt oppressed by the fundie culture up there. yeah, it was ridiculous (holding "exorcisms" of the downtown), BUT there comes a point, preaching to the choir (as it were) that all the goodness of Reason gets dilluted with just another flavor of prejudice.

i don't mean to say those of us who choose not to practice religion are bothersome in toto. just the beating of the drum past the point of tolerance.

[trotsky]

19. Oh?

What would be an example of "beating of the drum past the point of tolerance"?

[nashville_brook]

22. how 'bout insisting on discord where there is none...

look, i'm on your side regarding secularism -- as i am with my obnoxious friends. my critique is not with the SUBSTANCE of the ATTACK, but with the belief that EVERY... SINGLE... SOCIAL EXCHANGE regarding RELIGION has to be CONFRONTATIONAL... a battle to the death.

the "confrontational" wing of secularism does a disservice to their beliefs just as the "confrontational" wing of religion does a disservice to theirs. you are engaged in a rhetorical battle and you make the mistake that FORM doesn't count. sure, you might have all The Best arguments... facts and reality are on your side... but being ill-tempered and "ungentlemanly in the sport of discourse" removes points from your side of the scoreboard.

since you have facts and reality on your side, endeavor to act like it. you don't have to stoop to confrontation. use the "rope a dope" strategy... let the fundies spin their wheels... sit back... and enjoy. jump in for the knockout when the time is ripe. win your arguments with finesse and style rather than brute force.

you jumped on me because i criticized your team. you didn't disprove me. quite the contrary -- you did exactly what i expect a dogmatist to do: you ran the ball into the other team's endzone. touchdown!

[trotsky]

23. I "jumped" on you because you used a very broad term in a narrow-minded way.

Please don't read into it any more than that. There is no need to be so defensive.

I asked for examples. Would you care to give some now, or do you just want to launch some more attacks at me?

[nashville_brook]

24. if you read my post without that giant chip on your shoulder, you might have

been able to see that i wasn't making a BROAD attack... but, i see now why people avoid this forum... sheesh.

[trotsky]

25. Your exact words:

there comes a point where secular-folk become just as bothersome.

"Secular-folk"? You made no clarifications whatsoever with the original post. I see why you should avoid this forum, too, if you're going to make such nasty generalizations and personal attacks.

[nashville_brook]

26. the "clarification" is the context.

we GET it. you don't like Christians. but, this isn't a theater of the epic battle between good and evil. this is just people chatting; people who would otherwise agree with you if it weren't for your hysterically militant pose.

[trotsky]

27. Right.

You are willing to make all sorts of nasty conclusions about me, but I balk at your use of a very positive and broad term in a negative and derogatory manner, and I'm the unreasonable one. Okey dokey.

[nxylas]

12. But Siegel and Schuster didn't write the movie

They may not have intended Superman to be a Christ figure, but Superman Returns director Bryan Singer is on record as saying that his movie is about "what happens when Messiahs come back". I don't see this as a "conspiracy", just a filmmaker having his own take on somebody else's character.

[w13rd0]

4. Everyone I know that saw it...

...including myself, saw it and thought it was pretty heavy handed in its "Christian allegory"...

[nashville_brook]

5. totally agree -- the outstretched arms thing was over-the-top

bleh.

Smallville's superman is a much better christ figure as far as i'm concerned. it's a better story.

[rsdsharp]

6. I think you're pushing the "clues" a little hard.

The message by Superman's father was recorded by Marlon Brando in his portrayal of Jor-el in the first movie in 1978. I don't recall anyone saying there was a Christian underpinning to any of the first three films.

In addition, both of Superman's creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, were Jewish.

On the other hand, I think Paul really is dead.

[Imperialism Inc.]

8. I just finished reading the web page

of about precisely that. That the first 2 movies were a secular retelling of the Jesus story.

http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/superman.htm

[rsdsharp]

14. The website was created 20 years later.

Nobody said it contemporaneously.

[TlalocW]

11. The Batman story is an allegory for Buddhism

The small sect of Buddhists that believe in being brooding ass-kickers, hell-bent on revenge.

S'true!

TlalocW

[FormerDittoHead]

13. Tom Mankiewicz who did much of Superman #1 said they didn't avoid the metaphor.

The director's comments are great if you can get Superman #1 DVD. Tom Mankiewicz co-comments with Donner.

Richard Donner has some great stories, but we find out how much of the movies wit (which is what made the first movie GREAT and what made "Returns" terrible, IMO, came from Tom Mankiewicz.

Mankiewicz makes it clear that they made the analogy on purpose.

HOWEVER, if you REALLY want a Christ allegory, check out The Day the Earth Stood Still http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043456/

plot: "Carpenter" comes out of the sky to bring us a message of peace. He's instead killed but comes back to life, finally giving us a message of peace, and warning...

[Geoff R. Casavant]

15. I would say they are both based on the same archetypes

Nearly every culture has some version of the "a man who is the son of a god" tale, as well as the "rising from the dead" tale. The Jesus story is only the most familiar to us.

[cosmik debris]

20. Is this an issue for you?

This story is older than Jesus and has been used by many authors to make money or convert followers. So what is the problem?

[cain_7777]

21. The Jesus story predates christianity

Christians plagarized it from previous religions and now hollywood has taken it because it makes for a great story. Maybe in a few hundred years chrisitanity will be dead and people will have Superman as their personal saviour.