If I were an atheist, this would scare me.......

[peanutbrittle]

THE LUCIFER REBELLION

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper53.html


And a question for atheistic crowd:

Is this improbable to you?

THE INHABITED WORLDS

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper49.html

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Why be scared of fiction? n/t

[Zhade]

63. Indeed - I utterly adore fiction!

Not a fan of poorly-written fiction, like the bible and this, but still, fear what doesn't exist?

[bluerum]

2. It scares me....

that someone would take this jibberish seriously.

[ChickMagic]

3. So heaven kinda sucks too

Wars and all that. Sorry, it doesn't scare me.

[Roland99]

4. What the heck is "Urantia"? Some new fantasy book or something?

Oh, btw, the spelling geek in me wants to point out that "atheist's" above shouldn't be possessive. :)

[peanutbrittle]

18. Has so far withstood the test of time n/t

[Roland99]

20. What? Improper spelling or books of fiction?

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. So have "Beowulf", "Le Mort d'Arthur" and "David Copperfield"

All of which were written before the Urantia Book. Your point is...?

[peanutbrittle]

24. This might help....

Scientific Predictions of The Urantia Book

Scientific Predictions of The Urantia Book
by Irwin Ginsburgh, Ph.D., and Geoffrey L. Taylor

The Urantia Book contains much scientific information that was revealed between 1925 and 1935 to an individual who cared little about the material. Some of this information disagreed with science's version. Half a century later, some of this originally conflicting information now agrees with science, and some still does not. The information deals primarily with creation of the universe, the Earth and man, as well as the fundamentals of matter and energy. Theories about these kinds of subjects evolve as science matures, and some of science's ideas change. These changes have brought about the new agreement between science and The Urantia Book, and the now agreeing Urantia information can be considered to have been predictions.

The authors consider about thirty predictions that are in their areas of expertise or interest, but there are many others in the book. Science does not now know some of the information in the book. There is a distinct possibility that some of this Urantia information may also turn out to be scientific predictions in the future. If more of these predictions ultimately agree with science, it will give the scientific part of The Urantia Book an authenticity that will enhance the believability of the rest of the book. The authors examine about thirty scientific predictions in The Urantia Book, compare them with science's versions, see how much agreement we can find, and how much more we can anticipate. Those predictions that now agree with science and that partly agree constitute about one-third of all the predictions considered. This can be considered remarkable. Most predictions have yet to agree, but this is to be expected of a book with a very long life. More prediction analysis is warranted in the future, as is more detailed study of individual predictions.

Introduction

After studying The Urantia Book, one comes to grips with a personal question: Is the book completely correct or only partially so? Of course, one could take it all on faith and believe it completely. To help make this choice, we will examine the book's scientific information. The scientific information in the book that we will consider was either unknown to science in 1935 or differed from information generally accepted by science in 1935. Some of this information now agrees with science and can be considered predictions of what science would discover after 1935. We will examine some of these predictions and see how many now agree with science. If enough of them do, they can enhance the believability of the rest of The Urantia Book. However, we must remember that, presently, science only deals with the physical world, while the book deals with physical, spiritual and other matters.

Much of the scientific information in the book agreed with science, but some differed. Where they differed, the subjects cover matters such as creation of the universe, creation of our world, creation of life, fundamentals of energy, etc. Many of these subjects cannot be tested in a laboratory. Science's theories about such matters are designed to fit the available evidence. Historically, some theories change with time as science matures and new data become available. Those 1935 disagreements which now agree with science provide a unique way of testing the validity of the scientific part of The Urantia Book. The remaining disagreements may agree in the future, and these could provide additional confirmation of the scientific part of the book.

more.....http://beamsdoorway.bizland.com/urantia/science.htm

[TechBear_Seattle]

27. See post #26

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. In several short stories and novels in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, Isaac Asimov included mention of a world-wide network of computers accessable to everyone all the time; today we have the internet which is exactly what Asimov predicted. Does that, therefore, prove that "I, Robot" or the Foundation Trilogy are fact?

You are trying to make your case using logical fallacies. I believe the specific one you are invoking in the post above is the "Correct by association" fallacy: Because a few, isolated facts are true, the entire work must therefore be true. That is not the case, otherwise the short stories in Asimov's "I, Robot" collection must all be true and there really are robots ingrained with the Three Laws walking among us as humankind's helpers and saviors.

You would do well to take a basic course in rhetoric and logical thinking.

[charlie]

57. Funny, you have to reach the end of the article

before they acknowledge that the book wasn't published until 1955:

Class A can be considered remarkable for 1935. This information disagreed with science in 1935, but 50 years later there is agreement. However, since the book was published in 1955, critics could claim that the 1955 date is applicable. For the 1955 date, the predictions are not exceptional.

No kidding. But wait, they finesse its after-the-fact publication with a nice circular reference to another prediction from the book:

They are obviously in accord with The Urantia Book requirement that revelation be limited to information we will discover in the near future.

The book is amazing. So is Irwin Ginsburgh, Ph.D.:

First Man -- Then Adam!

Either a whimsical and entertaining fantasy, or a serious and realistic attempt to reconcile science and religion, FIRST, MAN. THEN. ADAM! puts forth the daring idea that Adam and Eve were members of an advanced species from far off outer space who crash-landed their spaceship, effectively stranding themselves, here on a very primative earth occupied by early Homo Sapiens.

Skilled in genetic science, they were able to breed with these early peoples, to produce a long-lived (900 years!), durable and intelligent species from which present mankind is descended!

Dr. Ginsburgh, a Physicist, maintains that the Biblical Genesis story is a true though transformed history of this and following events (with the spaceship as the Garden of Eden and the ship's central computer as the Tree of Knowledge, for example). The shorter lifetimes and growing subsceptibility to disease of each suceeding generation of these early space/earth men and women is stated to be due to continual dilution of the space people's genetic heritage by interbreeding with native earth people.

A large number of occurrances described in Genesis are shown to be consistant with this space origin theory. The description of the origin of the universe given in Genesis, can, according to Dr. Ginsburgh, by giving modern interpretations to some of the terms used in the description, be shown to be entirely consistant with the current Big Bang Theory!

Altogether, this is a stimulating and challenging attempt to reconcile religion and science, and can be read as a serious theoretical proposal, or if this is too hard to accept, as, at least, a very entertaining speculation. Unfortunately, the book is not easy to find...

http://www.amazon.com/First-man-then-Adam-scientific-interpretation/dp/B0006CJOB8

[MUAD_DIB]

5. I'm not sure that I follow the OP.

Are you able to come up with a suitable argument why atheists should be afraid of this?

[peanutbrittle]

8. Did you read it? n/t

[peanutbrittle]

19. delete double post n/t

[acmejack]

6. I'm terrified...

That you seriously believe I should be concerned. Please seek competent mental health care at the earliest possible opportunity.

[GOPFighter]

7. No

The only thing that scars me is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Onlooker]

9. How can you believe a god ...

who would create the kind of universe that these papers seem to describe? If god is a right wing nut, how can s/he be god? If god tells you he's going to destroy all your atheist friends, would you believe in him? If he told you to go out and destroy your atheist friends, would you listen? I don't believe in god, but am certain of one thing: if god possibly exists, s/he'll be benevolent, forgiving, and understanding, not some right wing asshole. God and cruelty are contradictions.

[peanutbrittle]

11. Fortunately he is merciful n/t

[salvorhardin]

10. Yes

All gods are equally improbable.

But if you like recycled 7th Day Adventist themes then have fun.

Skeptic's Dictionary has a good writeup.
http://skepdic.com/urantia.html

[peanutbrittle]

17. Moyer letter to Martin Gardner - Urantia Rebutttal

PDF format

http://www.world-destiny.org/birth/ch22R.pdf

[WhollyHeretic]

12. Bad fiction doesn't scare me, it does annoy me though

[bryant69]

13. Words! Words Everwhere! Words Words Words!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

No seriously, this doesn't seem like much to be scared of, but I'm a theist, so maybe I'm not looking at it like an Atheist would.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

14. Why is this any more scary than the Bible?

There are a lot more fundies out there than there are Luciferians. And the fundies are working relentlessly every day to screw America.

Cults don't scare me nearly as much as mainstream religion does.

[whoneedstickets]

15. Wow, thats up there with the Boogie Man!

On my list of things to be afraid of. I have yet to find any superstitious mumbo jumbo that is more terrifying to me than the real evils that human beings inflict on each other daily (often in the name of their own mumbo jumbo).

[Lowell]

16. Thanks, I needed a good laugh

That was the most boneheaded crock of bullshit I think I've ever read. Only a loon would even give that a second thought. Nope, not scared at all.

[atommom]

21. Um, yes, this is improbable to me. nt

[Goblinmonger]

22. If this scared you, then don't read Lovecraft.

You'll crap your pants.

[peanutbrittle]

25. Scientific Predictions of The Urantia Book - study

http://beamsdoorway.bizland.com/urantia/science.htm

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. Jules Vern made scientific predictions which have come true

So did H. G. Wells, Isaac Asimov, David Brin and a host of other science fiction writers, not to mention writers of political commentary like Aldous Huxley and George Orwell. Again, your point is...?

[peanutbrittle]

28. My point being that I, personally, am not willing to risk the chance...

of aligning myself with the rebels cause. But to each to his own I guess.

PAPER 54 - PROBLEMS OF THE LUCIFER REBELLION

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper54.html

[BurtWorm]

29. Are you sure you know the difference between atheists and Satanists?

Atheists don't believe in God or Satan.

Satanists, like many Christians, believe in both.

[peanutbrittle]

31. Yes I do.....here is what I relate to the atheist

3. THE LUCIFER MANIFESTO

Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:

1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father's name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father's actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel's proposals.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper53.html

The denial of a Creator and higher orders of intelligence

[BurtWorm]

41. Shocking.

But I don't deny that shit. I just don't believe in it. Any of it.

[peanutbrittle]

42. So you believe in the futility of our existence? n/t

[BurtWorm]

44. Maybe the futility of YOUR existence.

;)

Seriously, I think that my idea of purpose and meaning in life is much richer without having to imagine a God and naughty angels pulling all the strings.

[TechBear_Seattle]

30. You don't like rebel causes?

Why do you hate America? I mean, we got our start as a rebel cause. Would you have sided with the Royalists during the American Revolution?

And you have yet to establish that any of what you posted is true and not merely science fiction. That is the point I have been trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to make. And lest you cry discrimination, please note that I treat the Bible, Koran, Vedas and all other "holy" books in the same way.

[peanutbrittle]

32. Not when dealing with eternal life ...no n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

34. On what evidence to you claim that the Urantia Book tells the truth about eternal life?

Just because someone told you it was true, even though dozens of holy books with millions more adherents say otherwise? Why? More basically, on what evidence do you claim as proof of eternal life? And why would you reject the claims of, say Christianity or Islam, both of which teach eternal life but have very different concepts of what that means and how to get it, both from each other and from what the Urantia Book asserts?

[peanutbrittle]

39. No one knows it is the truth...I just don't care to play russian roulette n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

49. Ah, Pascal's Wager

But you still haven't given a meaningful answer. Why is it not "Russian roulette" with regards to the Christian afterlife, or the Muslim, or the Buddhist? Do you adhere to all religious scriptures which teach an afterlife, "just in case?" What makes this scripture more significant than all others?

[peanutbrittle]

50. For me....The answer lies within the text......

This paper is interesting:

PAPER 99 - THE SOCIAL PROBLEMS OF RELIGION

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper99.html




Other papers on the subject of religion:

http://www.urantia.org/papers/toc.html


85. The Origins of Worship




86. Early Evolution of Religion




87. The Ghost Cults




88. Fetishes, Charms, and Magic




89. Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement




90. Shamanism - Medicine Men and
Priests




91. The Evolution of Prayer




92. The Later Evolution of Religion




93. Machiventa Melchizedek



94. The Melchizedek Teachings in the
Orient




95. The Melchizedek Teachings in the
Levant




96. Yahweh - God of the Hebrews




97. Evolution of the God Concept among
the Hebrews




98. Melchizedek Teachings in the
Occident




99. Social Problems of Religion




100. Religion in Human Experience




101. The Real Nature of Religion



102. The Foundations of Religious Faith



103. The Reality of Religious Experience

[jgraz]

59. Pascal's Wager is crap

Worst bit of reasoning that guy ever did.

• Aren't you also taking the chance that you'll spend your one-and-only shot at existence following some useless fantasy?


• Aren't you worried that God may be just a bit different from the God you believe in, and He may decide to use different criteria for entrance to Heaven? For example, He may want to surround himself with free-thinkers rather than blind followers.


• Don't you think that an all-knowing God will see through your scam -- that you only choose believe in him because you see it as a "safe bet"?

One thing I can guarantee you: there are an infinite number of possible Gods one could choose to believe in. Any first -year probability student could tell you the chances that you picked the right one.... zero. Once again: when faced with an infinite number of choices, your chance of choosing correctly is ZERO.

Zero.

So feel free to play your "Russian Roulette". Just keep in mind that the gun you're using has an infinite number of chambers and they're all loaded.


Edit: speeling

[TechBear_Seattle]

60. Which was the point I made

Pascal's wager starts off with the presupposition that only Christianity might be right or wrong, and that all other creeds, religions and philosophies-of-life are automatically wrong. Likewise, PeanutBrittle seems to start with the presupposition that only the Urantia Book might be right or wrong, and that all other creeds, religions and philosophies-of-life are automatically wrong.

I assert that there is equal chance for any religion to be right or wrong. With that assertion, the Wager is revealed as the fallacious nonsense it really is.

[jgraz]

67. Yes, but I made it better

:P :hi:

[bluerum]

38. Eternal life - what is that? It makes no sense in the face of daily reality,

Is it fear of the finality of death? Or some sense that you should be hedging your bets just in case there is an eternal life, a bevy of judgmental devils and justice wielding gods. Is that why we have eternal life?

If you believe in eternal life, what difference will your beliefs make to you, or anyone/anything when you are dead? Do your beliefs precede your spiritual being into death where they are evaluated by the deities and devils to determine who has proper claim to your soul?

Well, that has a kind of symmetry to it. But it is also based on worldly values and judgments. None of it can be demonstrated. None of it can be shown at any level at all. All we have is some rambling nonsensical text that has conferred upon itself divine inspiration and insight.

[peanutbrittle]

40. If not interested in the spiritual aspects of the book.........

you might be interested in reading some of the more scientific and evolutionary aspects of the book.

The writings are extensive on these subjects..

just a thought

[Evoman]

43. Science..like what?

Its full of "science" that other science fiction writers and scientists have already known. It reads like science fiction. Now, if it has talked about DNA and about chemical pathways or given us scematics for spaceships or machinery IN SPECIFIC TERMS, then it would have been impressive.

But its a rehash of shit we already knew by that time, and just plain "science-fictioning"...i.e. what Gene Rodenberry did (and guess what...hes probably predicted future science discoveries better than the authors of this particular work".)

[peanutbrittle]

45. My answer........

whatever

[Evoman]

46. A fine answer.

Subtle, yet forceful and full of meaning. Its like saying "fuck off, you goat bastard" for the nice crowd. I, for one, think it is one of the finest arguments you have provided on this thread. Good on you, my friend.

[bluerum]

61. Squarely in the realm of fiction. Marginally science fiction. nt

[Goblinmonger]

58. Are you seriously saying

that atheists are doing the work of the devil by not believing in god? Seriously? I mean, holy crap! You believe in a physical devil? With a vandyke, pointy tail, and pitchfork? This guy?

And the ONLY REASON you aren't an atheist is because you are afraid of this guy? Tell me what you are smokin' so I can stay away from it.

[neebob]

157. He goes FLOOMF?!

Shoot, that pretty scary. If I wanted to scare someone I'd do that, and I wouldn't even need a green cloud.

FLOOMF!

See? I know you're scared.

[kwassa]

33. I was kidnapped to a Urantian wedding once

An old friend decided to get married; we hadn't seen her in several years. The wedding was to be held in the Mariposa Grove of giant sequoias at Yosemite, and the bride and groom had rented a tour bus to take the wedding participants up there from Los Angeles. Fun, huh?

it was only after we were on the bus about 40 minutes that we came to understand that all of the wedding participants, including the bride and groom to be, were followers of the book of Urantia. No one bothered to tell us, and we were trapped on the magic bus.

There were some brief attempts to convert us, and we politely turned them down. The trip ended up being quite fun, including a nude swim under Yosemite Falls in the early morning with about 30 of us.

Ah, California!



http://nherf.no-ip.com/Upper%20Yosemite%20Falls,%20Yosemite%20%20%20National%20Park,%20California.jpg

[Evoman]

35. Damn, what a beautiful place.

Thank you for posting those pics..I'm stuck in a flat, ugly place at the moment, and its nice to see.

[peanutbrittle]

37. LOL..."the magic bus"

Nice photo's...I have never been there but would love to go. Nothing like experiencing nature in the bare!

Well...the book is there for anyone who wants to study. I found that the book gave me a new and greater appreciation and possible understanding for what may/could be the truth. Whether or not it is the truth will be the great debate for a while to come. For me personally, it helps to settle some of the thirst for knowledge in regards to our purpose and existence. There is extensive writing within the book regarding the evolution of our planet and the biological inhabitants. I personally find it fascinating.

[Evoman]

36. Oh no...another book I'm supposed to believe in, and be scared of.

I would be more impressed if THIS boook had been written two thousand years ago.

On edit: Gee...I wonder why these mystical books always tell us about "facts" that we already know. Don't you think people in the 1000 AD would have appreciated knowing about planets, solar systems and evolution? Its almost like this book was written by people who have read science fiction...hmmmmm. These angels should have given us a scematic of those communication chip thingies and how we may be able to reactivate them ourselves..see..thats useful info.

What a crock. PT Barnum was sooo right.

[Book Lover]

47. Yet I am an atheist, and I see this nonsense for what it is

If these writings truly scare you, and you are not just trying to pull our collective leg, then I honestly worry for your mental health. As a collector of fortean writings, I have read very many similar stories in my lifetime.

Also, unless you are a trustee, it seems you are in technical violation of this part of the foundation's declaration (http://www.urantia.org/declaration.html):

3.3. PRESERVATION AND CONTROL OF REPRODUCTION OF THE URANTIA BOOK: It shall be the duty of the Trustees to retain absolute and unconditional control of all plates and other media for the printing and reproduction of THE URANTIA BOOK and any translation thereof, to make or cause to be made such additional plates and other media as shall from time to time be required to print and reproduce THE URANTIA BOOK and any translations thereof, to retain the absolute and unconditional control of the possession, custody, use, and disposition of all such plates and other media for the printing and reproduction of THE URANTIA BOOK and translation thereof, and to apply and use the Trust Estate therefor.

Not that I agree with the terms of the declaration; just thought you might find it interesting. Signed, your friendly neighborhood publishing professional.

[peanutbrittle]

48. Print plates.....LOL.....Whatever... n/t

[cosmik debris]

51. Hmmm, looks like they failed to predict digital media. n/t

[Book Lover]

52. Indeed, I agree with your "whatever," yet

my purpose in pointing this out was clearly lost on you. If such revelations were truly vital to the mission of this foundation, I put it to you that it would make more sense that there be no restrictions on dissemination of the material.

Or, again, are you just posting these links to yank our atheist chains?

[peanutbrittle]

54. No...you clearly posted the copyright violations

in an attempt to scare me. Posting links and a couple introductory paragraphs I doubt will warrant legal action by the organization.

I don't have the answer to the other question other than they may not have wanted other orgs to reproduce the text, most likely to protect the integrity of the text.

[Book Lover]

55. Scare you?

It is to laugh. 'Bye now.

[WhollyHeretic]

53. OK. OK. You're right. I REPENT!

I no longer want to be a hand-puppet for Satan. I don't want to burn in hell. I want to sing hymns in heaven for eternity!

Oh lord I am thy servant! I have seen the wickedness of my atheist ways!

[trotsky]

56. Yeah, I'm this scared:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Someone seriously believes this?

:wow:
Why would anyone be scared by something that reads like a job evaluation (apart from the person being evaluated, I suppose)? I'll give them marks for "the divine mandates of Salvington", though - that shows a bit of originality in name selection, compared with the usual science fiction or fantasy names. It sounds quite 'John Wyndham'.

[Danger Mouse]

64. I made it through one sentence.

You actually believe this shit? :wtf:

[peanutbrittle]

65. You made it through one sentence......

Not willing to judge the book as a whole?

I ponder it

[jgraz]

66. You don't need to eat the whole pound of shit to know it's all gonna taste bad

Dude, seriously, what are you thinking?

[Danger Mouse]

100. *points to jgraz*

what he said :rofl:

[trotsky]

109. BPOTT

Best Post Of The Thread. :rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

114. POTD !!!

And the dude obviously wasn't thinking.

[Danger Mouse]

101. I'm Christian.

And I still think it's horse shit. Sorry.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Since it reads like Time Cube

I went and looked it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urantia

Look at the stuff about science. Different colored races and all that jazz.

:eyes:

[charlie]

69. Yeah, I looked up the bit about the origin of the "colored" races

and it's all there, like they said. Red, orange, blue, indigo, etc, begat from a single family, imbued with inherent qualities according to color (how many times have we heard that junk before?), dispersed to the four corners and segregated, only to do battle with one another when they meet again.

6. The indigo race. As the red men were the most advanced of all the Sangik peoples, so the black men were the least progressive. They were the last to migrate from their highland homes. They journeyed to Africa, taking possession of the continent, and have ever since remained there except when they have been forcibly taken away, from age to age, as slaves.

Isolated in Africa, the indigo peoples, like the red man, received little or none of the race elevation which would have been derived from the infusion of the Adamic stock. Alone in Africa, the indigo race made little advancement until the days of Orvonon, when they experienced a great spiritual awakening. While they later almost entirely forgot the "God of Gods" proclaimed by Orvonon, they did not entirely lose the desire to worship the Unknown; at least they maintained a form of worship up to a few thousand years ago.

Notwithstanding their backwardness, these indigo peoples have exactly the same standing before the celestial powers as any other earthly race.

These were ages of intense struggles between the various races, but near the headquarters of the Planetary Prince the more enlightened and more recently taught groups lived together in comparative harmony, though no great cultural conquest of the world races had been achieved up to the time of the serious disruption of this regime by the outbreak of the Lucifer rebellion.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper64.html

[cosmik debris]

70. I'm glad I didn't read that far

That is the most hateful racist claptrap I've heard since the Klan came to town.

[peanutbrittle]

72. You are wrong and you are spreading misinformation n/t

[cosmik debris]

79. Do you deny this quote

"Isolated in Africa, the indigo peoples, like the red man, received little or none of the race elevation which would have been derived from the infusion of the Adamic stock."

Or do you deny that it is racist claptrap.

Hell, you can't deny either. You are promoting racism. That's just shameful!

[peanutbrittle]

90. Your talking 500,000 years ago at the roots of the human race.

Later on they did and there has been amalgamation since.

For instance...How do you explain the differences between the Nordics and the Chinese? It's a fact of life that there are different races in our evolution. Different bloodlines...how do they explain this?

[cosmik debris]

91. It's like talking to a Klansman

You will always have an excuse for your racist ideas.

[peanutbrittle]

97. RACE AND THE URANTIA BOOK

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc805.htm

[cosmik debris]

102. Cool! The Mud people are so much better off since they bred

with the white people. Nope, that's not racist.

[beam me up scottie]

123. Of course it isn't! They didn't use the N-word, silly!

Can you believe this shit? :mad:

[Zhade]

155. "the red man" - 'holy' shit. That offends me.

I'm of that description.

You're right, this is racist. Alert on it.

[peanutbrittle]

71. The book teaches racial amalgamation and race harmonization....

The discussions on race are primarily centered around a time on this planet half a million years ago or so when the human race was just beginning to come into existence.

Have scientists come up with an explanation of how the different races came into existence on our planet?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. ...

"Have scientists come up with an explanation of how the different races came into existence on our planet?"

Yes. Using evidence, and without resorting to racism or primary colors.

[peanutbrittle]

75. Something like this?....

Not much different from the way the U book explains it. BTW...there are other papers regarding human evolution other than paper 64 that go into more detail regarding this issue. But I doubt you are interested in reading more about it.

Again, the book teaches racial amalgamation and harmonization

http://www.racialcompact.com/index.html#anchor80975

Outline of Human Racial Classification:

I. Capoid or Khoisanid Subspecies of southern Africa

A. Khoid (Hottentot) race
B. Sanid (Bushmen) race

II. Congoid Subspecies of sub-Saharan Africa

A. Central Congoid race (Geographic center and origin in the Congo river basin)

1. Palaecongoid subrace (the Congo river basin: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo, Angola)
2. Sudanid subrace (western Africa: Niger, Mali, Senegal, Guinea)
3. Nilotid subrace (southern Sudan; the ancient Nubians were of this subrace)
4. Kafrid or Bantid subrace (east and south Africa: Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Natal)

B. Bambutid race (African Pygmies)
C. Aethiopid race (Ethiopia, Somalia; hybridized with Caucasoids)

III. Caucasoid or Europid Subspecies (Geographic distribution centered in the Caucasus mountains)

A. Mediterranid race

1. West Mediterranean or Iberid subrace (Spain, Portugal, Corsica, Sardinia, and coastal areas of Morocco and Tunisia; the Atlanto-Mediterranean peoples who expanded over much of the Atlantic coastal regions of Europe during the Mesolithic period were a branch of this subrace)
2. East Mediterranean or Pontid subrace (Black Sea coast of Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria; Aegean coasts of Greece and Turkey)
3. Dinaricized Mediterraneans (Residual mixed types resulting from the blending of Mediterranids with Dinarics, Alpines or Armenids; not a unified type, has much regional variation; predominant element in Sicily and southern Italy, principal element in Turkey <35%>, important element in western Syria, Lebanon and central Italy, common in northern Italy. The ancient Cappadocian Mediterranean subrace of Anatolia was dinaricized during the Bronze Age and is a major contributor to this type in modern Turkey.)
4. South Mediterranean or Saharid subrace (predominant in Algeria and Libya, important in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt)
5. Orientalid or Arabid subrace (predominant in Arabia, major element from Egypt to Syria, primary in northern Sudan, important in Iraq, predominant element among the Oriental Jews)

B. Dinaric race (predominant in western Balkans and northern Italy, important in the Czech Republic, eastern and southern Switzerland, western Austria and eastern Ukraine)
C. Alpine race (predominant element in Luxembourg, primary in Bavaria and Bohemia, important in France, Hungary, eastern and southern Switzerland)
D. Ladogan race (named after Lake Ladoga; indigenous to Russia; includes Lappish subrace of arctic Europe)
E. Nordish or Northern European race (various subraces in the British Isles, Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Belgium; predominant element in Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Finland and the Baltic States; majority in Austria and Russia; minority in France, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary; outlined in detail in The Nordish Race)
F. Armenid race (predominant element in Armenia, common in Syria, Lebanon and northern Iraq, primary element among the Ashkenazic Jews)
G. Turanid race (partially hybridized with Mongoloids; predominant element in Kazakhstan.; common in Hungary and Turkey)
H. Irano-Afghan race (predominant in Iran and Afghanistan, primary element in Iraq, common <25%> in Turkey)
I. Indic or Nordindid race (Pakistan and northern India)
J. Dravidic race (India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ; ancient stabilized Indic-Veddoid blend)

IV. Australoid Subspecies

A. Veddoid race (remnant Australoid population in central and southern India)
B. Negritos (remnants in Malaysia and the Philippines)
C. Melanesian race (New Guinea, Papua, Solomon Islands)
D. Australian-Tasmanian race (Australian Aborigines)

V. Mongoloid Subspecies

A. Northeast Asian race (various subraces in China, Manchuria, Korea and Japan)
B. Southeast Asian race (various subraces in Indochina, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, some partly hybridized with Australoids)
C. Micronesian-Polynesian race (hybridized with Australoids)
D. Ainuid race (remnants of aboriginal population in northern Japan)
E. Tungid race (Mongolia and Siberia, Eskimos)
F. Amerindian race (American Indians; various subraces)


Dominant or predominant = over 60% majority
Majority or major = 50-60% majority
Principal or primary = 25-49% plurality; less than a majority, but most numerous racial type
Important = 25-49% minority; not most numerous racial type
Common = 5-25% minority
Minor = less than 5% minority

The diverse races of the human species outlined above all have their own geographical territory that has historically been exclusively their own, which may be referred to as their racial homeland, and is closely identified with the race that inhabits it. Between most of these exclusive homelands are clinal zones -- areas of contact between different racial territories. These racial borderlands are frequently areas of interracial contact and intermixture where adjacent races merge into one another, creating racially mixed or hybridized populations of intermediate type called racial clines. The Dravidic race of India and Sri Lanka, created by the intermixture of the local Caucasoid (Indic or Nordindid) and Australoid (Veddoid) populations, and the Aethiopid race of Ethiopia and Somalia, created by the intermixture of the local Caucasoid (Mediterranid) and Congoid races, are two very ancient racial clines -- perhaps 10,000 years old -- which have stabilized into distinct races of intermediate type. Racial clines of more recent formation, where the racial blends are not yet stabilized, include the populations of many Latin American and Caribbean countries, which were created over the last 500 years by the intermixture of various Caucasoid (mostly Mediterranid), Congoid and Amerindian elements. The population of Mexico, for example, is about 5% Caucasoid, 30% Amerindian and 65% Mestizo, the Spanish term for persons of mixed Amerindian-Caucasoid ancestry. (The same term is used in the Philippines for persons of mixed Filipino-Caucasoid ancestry.) The multiracialization of the populations of North America and, more recently, Europe, has begun to transform them into racial clines. As discussed in other essays on this site, this process of racial transformation will eventually cause the effective extinction or nonexistence of the European racial types in the affected areas unless adequate preservationist measures are taken to prevent it.

Return to Racial Compact main page

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. No, not like that.

What is that? Some sort of white supremacist site?

[charlie]

82. You've gotta be kidding

A link to the obsessive taxonomy of a racial preservation site is supposed to bolster the Urantia cred? Hell, they tweeze granular distinctions a million ways from Sunday and still miss what's staring them in the face -- there's no meaningful baseline for the notion of "race." Everyone's a mutt.

[peanutbrittle]

86. I apologize for linking that site and it was not my intent....

My intent was the list there that contained the steps of human evolution.

Wikpedia would have made a better source.

My point being that the U book teaches the evolution of the human races and teaches racial amalgamation ansd harmonization...not racial annihilation and anyone who says that is simply misinformed and has not read the book in depth.

[cosmik debris]

89. If you substitute "mud people" for "indigo people"

You shit reads just like the Klan literature. It is racists. You can pretend that it has a happy ending, but it is no less racists.

[peanutbrittle]

92. Teaching amalgamation & harmonization of earths races is racist? n/t

[cosmik debris]

94. Teaching the inferiority of some races is racism.

Even if you call it historical, it is racism. It is hateful, it is shameful.

I've been a regular at DU for three years now and I have never seen such blatant racism on this site. I thought I had escaped it until I met you.

[charlie]

93. No, it doesn't

It teaches that diversification is desirable, particularly if interbreeding is tempered with "Adamic stock." The qualities of race are near immutable and are marginally subject to cultural influence. Race is destiny. It's codswallop.

[peanutbrittle]

99. see here...

A black woman shares her personal reactions and comments on The Urantia Book's racial anthropology. Earlene Green

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc805.htm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. Apparently the author, Dr. William Sadler...

was really into the eugenics movement.

No surprise there.

[peanutbrittle]

105. Where do you find that? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. many places.

http://www.nthposition.com/bibleofeugenics.php

[peanutbrittle]

111. Google is your best friend..Gardners work is flawed and weak

Would you like for me to post the rebuttals to Gardners work?

The reviews at Amazon really don't look all that good either.

[cosmik debris]

108. Try this citation

"The trouble with the written word, as those who insist on the literal truth of Bibles find, time alters the context in which things are defined, and despite efforts to amend texts to say something different when the world changes to embrace new knowledge, the original text cannot be totally removed. Dr Sadler and his wife, for example, because of their extreme views on eugenics, became convinced of the inequality of the races, and were distinctly embarrassed to find that Hitler's views mirrored those of the Urantian God and his angels in relation to selective breeding, which could remove the inferior species."


http://www.adherents.com/people/ps/William_Sadler.html

Nope, No racism there.
:sarcasm:

[peanutbrittle]

110. Urantia doesn't advocate genocide n/t

[cosmik debris]

112. Urantia advocates eugenics

Just like Hitler. You must be so proud!

[peanutbrittle]

117. Can't see the forest because of the trees? n/t

[cosmik debris]

116. Try another citation

The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.
The Urantia Book P.1220 - §3 (111:4.4)

[cosmik debris]

122. How about a little plagarism too

in 1991 a couple of groups of Urantia Book readers decided, independently of each other, to collect all the human sources found so far. As a member of one of these groups, I took on the task of reading the above mentioned books carefully in order to glean all the parallel passages. As I read, I began to see that the parallels were far more extensive than previously realized. This led me to surmise that the revelators’ use of books was not so extraordinary after all.

A few months later, while doing research for a paper on the Urantia Book’s treatment of race and eugenics, I happened upon E. V. Cowdry’s Human Biology and Racial Welfare. Published in 1930, this book turned out to be another unmistakable source. This discovery, which occurred in the spring of 1992, spurred me on to conduct a concentrated search for other source books.

Below is a list of nineteen books which comprise the sources I have collected so far. All of these books, with a few exceptions noted in the list, contain sentences, paragraphs, or even whole chapters whose phrasings and organization of thoughts or information are so closely paralleled in the Urantia Book as to strongly suggest their use as source materials by the revelators. Most were discovered in libraries and used book stores in the Chicago area during the spring, summer, and fall of 1992, in the course of my research.

http://www.squarecircles.com/matarticles/firstarticle/sourcesoftheurantiabook.htm

So they didn't invent eugenics, they stole it from other sources.

[cosmik debris]

126. David Duke would love this!

P593:4, 52:3.5 The Adamic progeny never amalgamate with the inferior strains of the evolutionary races. Neither is it the divine plan for the Planetary Adam or Eve to mate, personally, with the evolutionary peoples. This race-improvement project is the task of their progeny.

Isn't racial improvement one of the Klan's objectives?

[cosmik debris]

128. No genocide you say???

"64:3.5 In less than one thousand years most of the borderland animal groups of these regions had been either destroyed or driven back to the southern forests. This campaign for the extermination of inferiors brought about a slight improvement in the hill tribes of that age. And the mixed descendants of this improved Badonite stock appeared on the stage of action as an apparently new people.."

[cosmik debris]

129. More eugenics

80:1.7 This technique of race blending, combined with the elimination of inferior strains, produced a dozen or more virile and progressive groups of superior blue men, one of which you have denominated the Cro-Magnons.

The deeper I dig the more repulsive this gets. I can't believe that in the 21st century people could still believe in this crap!

[cosmik debris]

131. I found about 30 more references to eugenics and genocide

Shall I post them for you or have you had enough?

[cosmik debris]

133. Just one more for the Klansman in you

This one shows the hazards of mixing the races.

80: 7.6 The Aegean region passed through five distinct cultural stages, each less spiritual than the preceding, and erelong the last glorious era of art perished beneath the weight of the rapidly multiplying mediocre descendants of the Danubian slaves who had been imported by the later generations of Greeks.

I'll bet this goes over really well in Mississippi! I wonder if George Wallace was a Urantian?

[cosmik debris]

135. Hell, I can't get enough of this now! More on Race Improvement

71:4.2 The progressive program of an expanding civilization embraces:

Preservation of individual liberties.
Protection of the home.
Promotion of economic security.
Prevention of disease.
Compulsory education.
Compulsory employment.
Profitable utilization of leisure.
Care of the unfortunate.
Race improvement.
Promotion of science and art.
Promotion of philosophy -- wisdom.
Augmentation of cosmic insight -- spirituality.


Yep, that's what it says, "Race Improvement"

[beam me up scottie]

139. Excellent research, cosmik.

Bookmarking this thread so I can use it the next time someone posts this shit in here. :thumbsup:

[cosmik debris]

140. The odd part is that it all comes from the Urantia web site

http://www.ubfellowship.org/urantiabook/topical_index/51.htm

Just scroll down to eugenics and feel the HATE!

[beam me up scottie]

141. Oh, how fun! Look what I found:

P592:5, 52:2.11 This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.

[cosmik debris]

143. Eugenics is like compound interest

The longer you do it, the better it gets.

Isn't it amazing that people can pass this off a legitimate belief system. This makes the Bible look benign.

[beam me up scottie]

144. "all primitive tribes killed deformed and sickly children "

P770:8, 68:6.11 From a world standpoint, overpopulation has never been a serious problem in the past, but if war is lessened and science increasingly controls human diseases, it may become a serious problem in the near future. At such a time the great test of the wisdom of world leadership will present itself. Will Urantia rulers have the insight and courage to foster the multiplication of the average or stabilized human being instead of the extremes of the supernormal and the enormously increasing groups of the subnormal? The normal man should be fostered; he is the backbone of civilization and the source of the mutant geniuses of the race. The subnormal man should be kept under society's control; no more should be produced than are required to administer the lower levels of industry, those tasks requiring intelligence above the animal level but making such low-grade demands as to prove veritable slavery and bondage for the higher types of mankind.

It's amazing that anyone can read this shit to begin with.

But I can see why it would be so appealing to racists.

[cosmik debris]

146. Oooo! Slavery Too! I missed that one.

I think the thing that amazes me most is that they don't even have enough shame to hide this crap. They post it in the open for everyone to see. They act like it is a good thing???????

[beam me up scottie]

150. That's exactly how the racists here behave.

They're shocked when I go off on them after they or use a racial slur or tell a racist joke and use the 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' schtick on me.

Like I'm SUPPOSED to get it because I'm white.

They usually follow up that stellar performance by telling me I "just don't understand" because I'm a yankee. :eyes:



And people wonder why I fucking lose it when I see the same thing here.

[cosmik debris]

137. OK, I promise this is the last one Maybe

71:3.5 No society has progressed very far when it permits idleness or tolerates poverty. But poverty and dependence can never be eliminated if the defective and degenerate stocks are freely supported and permitted to reproduce without restraint.

permitted to reproduce without restraint?????

permitted to reproduce without restraint!!!!!

permitted to reproduce without restraint?????

I guess I don't need to keep going after that.

[beam me up scottie]

142. " When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished,...

as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

P920:3, 82:6.5 Hybridization of superior and dissimilar stocks is the secret of the creation of new and more vigorous strains. And this is true of plants, animals, and the human species. Hybridization augments vigor and increases fertility. Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America. When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished, as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

[charlie]

106. Geesh

So a black woman has rationalized Urantia's race-as-destiny bunkum? So what? She oughta have lunch with Armstrong Williams, if they don't kill each other, they'll find they have plenty in common.

We must think of ourselves as one part of a whole people we are to become. "There are no pure races in the world today. (*919) There are only two races representative of early evolutionary people of color. –the yellow man and the black man—and they are admixed with extinct colored peoples. Even our modern white race contains much less than one- eighth of one-sixth percentage of the blood of Adam which characterized the Mesopotamian Andites over eight thousand years ago. (*871)

Paper 80 could be just as disturbing to certain groups of whites as Paper 64 is disturbing to blacks, in that it is stated in more than one place that whites absorbed a considerable amount of secondary Sangik blood through the Saharans who were the superior group of the indigo race. Indeed the white race has been blended too much to be classified as Nordic, Alpine, or Mediterranean. The URANTIA Book states that "Race mixture is always advantageous in that it favors versatility of culture and makes for a progressive civilization…" (*880) The Book further states, among other things, that "Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increases creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States in North America…The chief troubles of ‘half-breeds’ are due to social prejudices…" and "Mixtures of the white and black races are not so desirable in their immediate results…" (*920)

Now, take a good look at that, with its regard of race as an ingredient that enhances or attenuates potential for the Urantian ideal. She's an Urantian bot.

[peanutbrittle]

115. The book is discussing the evolution of the races of man 500,000

years ago. Again, can you point me to the scientific explanation of the evolutionary races?

The bottom line is that

This is the best explanation I've found so far...but I'm all ears.

If it were racist it would be promoting servitude and genocide. It doesn't promote race isolationism either.

It doesn't:
"Race mixture is always advantageous in that it favors versatility of culture and makes for a progressive civilization"

You can stay stuck on this but I'm moving on

Cosmic wisdom is essential in the understanding cosmic situations

[greyl]

138. The book is 2 and a half million years off, bro.

Or is that mansierre?

[peanutbrittle]

168. THE DAWN RACES OF EARLY MAN

PAPER 62

THE DAWN RACES OF EARLY MAN



62:0.1 ABOUT one million years ago the immediate ancestors of mankind made their appearance by three successive and sudden mutations stemming from early stock of the lemur type of placental mammal.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p062.htm

[charlie]

173. There it is again

Fanciful tales with no corroboration of evidence. None. Just assertions from a compiled dream log.

3 successive and sudden mutations of early lemurs. Twins, each time. So markedly different from and superior to their parent's "stock", they're a clear evolutionary step up the ladder toward humanhood (or up toward lesser primates, in the case of the "retarded" pair). These mutations put the PUNC in punctuated equilibrium! And it's all recounted in a breezy You Are There style:

62:3.9 You can hardly realize by what narrow margins your prehuman ancestors missed extinction from time to time. Had the ancestral frog of all humanity jumped two inches less on a certain occasion, the whole course of evolution would have been markedly changed. The immediate lemurlike mother of the dawn-mammal species escaped death no less than five times by mere hairbreadth margins before she gave birth to the father of the new and higher mammalian order. But the closest call of all was when lightning struck the tree in which the prospective mother of the Primates twins was sleeping. Both of these mid-mammal parents were severely shocked and badly burned; three of their seven children were killed by this bolt from the skies. These evolving animals were almost superstitious. This couple whose treetop home had been struck were really the leaders of the more progressive group of the mid-mammal species; and following their example, more than half the tribe, embracing the more intelligent families, moved about two miles away from this locality and began the construction of new treetop abodes and new ground shelters -- their transient retreats in time of sudden danger.

Give Kipling's Just So stories a try, they're just as entertaining and a lot more fun.

[Evoman]

159. Races are artificial..

Skin color, which is what we usually divide people by, is just one trait...some people have more pigment than others. I imagine that most african people are dark because people with dark skin do better in hot, sunny places, so their environment selects for darker skin (you know what natural selection is, right?). I don't see what other traits, apart from a few physical traits that can be explained by evolution, are different between races. There is no appreciable differene between races in terms of intelligence. "Races" probably came about due to vicariance events...i.e. ancestors crossed to North America via the Bering strait, and then became separated...independant evolution then caused the slight physical changes we know of as race. Probably the same happened in Africa and Australia and part of Europe. Physical barriers can really impede fucking between these groups, so each group has SLIGHTLY different characteristic (genetic-wise). Is this supposed to be some big mystery.

Apart from some slight facial and stature characteristics (and skin colour of course) there is no appreciable difference between races.

[charlie]

162. Point you?

Are you really unaware of adaptation and culling through environmental pressures? It's boilerplate science.

Your best explanation is not only cart-before-the-horse, it's highly improbable. A half dozen pigments arise in the 19 members of a single family and their progeny disperse and dominate far flung regions of the globe, segregated by color. That's not only far-fetched, it has no grounding in evidence, being the confabulations of a dreaming "medium."

If it were racist it would be promoting servitude and genocide. It doesn't promote race isolationism either.

Balls. The unwarranted regard of other "races" as inferior is racism. Even a condescending indulgence or romanticization of "lesser races" is racist. Maybe you can enlighten me as to the native "spiritual" capacities of people with broad or aquiline noses, light or dark skin, straight or kinky hair, brown or blue eyes, squat or lean builds, etc. I'd also like to hear how an Adamic Infusion elevates them. Please, I'm all ears.

It doesn't:
"Race mixture is always advantageous in that it favors versatility of culture and makes for a progressive civilization"

Of course, you elide all the race-as-determinant-of-quality statements and warnings about timing and proportion, as if people were ingredients in a SuperRace Souffle, that bracket that quote. You're quote mining out of context from your own source.

You can stay stuck on this but I'm moving on

Cosmic wisdom is essential in the understanding cosmic situations

When all else fails, pat yourself on the back for your perspicacity and refinement. Classic trolldom. I'll bet you can can scratch your ass by reaching over your shoulder.

[jgraz]

74. Yes, science has explained race

It's complete bullshit. There is no genetic component that differentiates human beings according to the racial divisions we've established in society. Does your tract explain how the "race" of musical people came into existence? Or the "race" of taller than average people? Those divisions are about at meaningful as any other difference.

[peanutbrittle]

76. Yes...the book does explain the bloodlines and the cultural lines....

no genetic differences??? hmmmmm

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peanutbrittle]

83. Not the best site to pick that evolutionary list from..i agree

I apologize. Nevertheless, it looks to me like scientists are still divided as to the meaning and evolution of the human race diversity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

There is no way you could possibly judge this book as racist without reading the material

Good bye

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. I myself have never read Mein Kampf.

I'm pretty sure it's racist though, and makes about as much sense.

[cosmik debris]

80. Race is a figment of your imagination.

Promoting racist differences is hateful and shameful.

[Az]

84. No genetic differences?

Um... what are you talking about? There are very distinct genetic markers for every variable human trait.

[peanutbrittle]

87. It wasn't me that said that..it was jgraz and I was questioning him n/t

[Az]

88. Ah

I didn't track back through the branch far enough...

[jgraz]

134. I should have said no *consistent* genetic component

There's no coherent collection of "black" genes or "asian" genes. If you divide race according to disease immunity rather than visual components, you get a very different picture.

[greyl]

130. Humanity is 3 million years old

give or take a week.

That book is total garbage.

[Az]

81. Um Peanutbrittle

Perhaps you should spend some more time actually talking to atheists to find out what motivates us or scares us. We generally are not phased by supposed prophetic works. We have all sorts of notions about them being little more than internal psychological subterfuge that affects those who are actively looking for signs in a universe they believe to be guided by a higher power. See if you don't believe in a higher power then you don't really think things are guided or made to happen.

The brain is a marvel at recognising patterns. Even when they aren't there. Thats why we can find Micky Mouse in the clouds, conspiracies in the news, and gods in the universe. Signs and prophecies both play upon this nature to confuse and mislead us.

Prophecies in particular play upon the fact that if you generalize something enough you can make anything fit it. Particularly if you leave the timeframe open ended.

There is a movie called The Messenger. Its mostly a good movie about Joan of Arc. But where it really shines is when Dustin Hoffman shows up as Joan's conscience. There is a sequence where Dustin dismantles Joan's insistance that she was acting as God's messenger because of signs she saw. It really is a marvel of how to apply critical thought and well worth seeing the movie itself just to glimpse.

[peanutbrittle]

95. It is difficult for me to understand what makes an atheist tick....

I couldn't imagine living with no hope in something greater. Doesn't make me weak, just enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the ponderance of the cosmic meaning.

I'm guessing though that many with the atheist point of veiw have been tainted by the fanatical side of religion.

I found this paper interesting in that respect.

PAPER 99 - THE SOCIAL PROBLEMS OF RELIGION
http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper99.html

I also thought some may be a little more open to this train of thought (the U book) as it includes the aspects of evolution

[Az]

98. There is a recurring tactic

In religious thought it is often observed that a huge work or text will attempt to convey evidence or proof (impossible) of God. The trouble is that it is the scale of the text that seems designed to lose the reader in detail. It attempts to disconnect from reality. But because there is so much information being dumped on the issue people tend to lose track of exactly where they lost touch with the ground.

These works tend to appeal to the mindset that looks for signs in things. The mind uses many tools to help it discern the truth when doubt exists. Skeptics and atheists tend to use reason as a primary tool for such things. But in the believer's camp signs and other tools are adapted.

The brain is basically a big pattern recognition device. Evolutionarily speaking it doesn't matter if the patterns discerned are true or not as long as discerning the occaisional important pattern increases survival. Imagine a skeptic and believer sitting in the jungle. The believer spots out of the corner of their eye something that frightens them. Perhaps a shadow or a branch moving in the distance. Trusting in their interpretation of the signs they take off running. Meanwhile the skeptic notices the oddity as well. But instead of jumping to the conclusion of what it means they trundle off to investigate. And about the time the saber tooth tiger is chewing on their leg they have discerned exactly what it was.

So a work such as this gathers all sorts of signs and notions and tries to arrainge them in ways that patterns leap out. But like the clouds above the patterns may not really be anything other than oddities discovered by the brain. They feel important because the brain is wired to feel that patterns are important. The trick is determining if its really a pattern from the universe or from our mind imposing one on the universe.

[greyl]

136. You used that skep v believer scenario a couple years ago in the MR,

and I didn't like it then, either. :)
I think that thread got locked before I could respond, and I have low hopes for this one, so...

Are you familiar with Gladwell's Blink?

[Az]

161. Really and no

Really as in ... you don't like it? How come?


And No as in I don't think I have heard of blink.

[beam me up scottie]

124. Yeah, atheists just deny god cuz they're pissed at fundies.

Judging by your posts and the sources you keep citing, we're not the ones who've been "tainted".

[peanutbrittle]

96. A black woman shares her personal reactions to the U Book

RACE AND THE URANTIA BOOK
Earlene A. Green

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc805.htm

[Az]

104. Anecdotal

Just because one person found it within themself to reconcile such things doesn't make it true. Ever notice how during GOP conventions the cameras always seem to find the one black person in the crowd.

This is the human brain and pattern recognition again. This time the brain creates an order of significance to the fact that some criteria is met. In truth a single person (or a few) siting agreement with something does not provide any actual statistical weight. But it provides emotional weight. And emotions don't necissarily stem from what is right. Just from what impacts us.

[beam me up scottie]

113. Why hasn't this been locked? It's like linking to the bible and asking gays if it scares them.

To answer your question, no, religious fiction only scares people who believe it isn't fiction.

We're immune to it.

[peanutbrittle]

118. Because this is a religion and theology thread..free to discuss n/t

[beam me up scottie]

120. So it's not the white supremacist forum?

After reading what you keep linking to, I'm not so sure.

[WhollyHeretic]

119. There's also a bunch of racist crap in the links as well

Just a staggering display of ignorance.

[beam me up scottie]

121. Oh, I know. We've seen this before.

As if it's not bad enough just to cite those sources, they always attempt to justify doing so in the first place. :puke:

[WhollyHeretic]

125. He linked to more racist garbage in an attempt to claim he wasn't racist

:crazy:

I think I might have to pull out a few smilies I haven't used in a while

[beam me up scottie]

127. Those are great!

I have faith in your supernatural ability to predict the final outcome of this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

132. Ah! Found it!

Here is the entry in the Skeptic's Dictionary, right where it belongs; in between UFO's and Urine Therapy...http://skepdic.com/urantia.html

Moyer is convinced that we are on the verge of a nuclear holocaust and that the UB offers advice on how to save oneself from destruction and what to do afterward. This is all part of God's plan, as revealed to Sadler. According to Moyer, "God is using this technique to screen the human race."

It seems to me that God tried this once before with water instead of nuclear bombs. Well, if at first you don't succeed....

[Danger Mouse]

145. I get it now!

I remember this story. The Holy Knights of the Ku Klux Klan come riding in at the end on white horses and take down all of the evil 'impure' races in the name of Jesus!

[cosmik debris]

147. I was wondering how this movie was going to end. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

148. I hope it ends in a tombstone =)

I went to one the links this guy posted. Racist garbage. And he posted it to SUPPORT his argument?

[Danger Mouse]

149. Hey guys...I figured out why it's so scary now...

I mean, it certainly scares me to think that someone takes this trash seriously, eh? Eh??
That being said...goose-step your way on out of here, buddy. You've had your fun.

[cosmik debris]

151. You know, I'm not even sure the Mods know about this lovefest

I make it a point NEVER to hit alert except to point out threads that should be moved to R/T or the Lounge and such. So the mods might not even know we have a racist in our midst.

And besides, I had so much fun with my post above I hate to see him go.

He promises to be an endless source of entertainment. Did you check out his profile?

[beam me up scottie]

153. Oh, he just loves atheists.

I just forgot how much because we hadn't seen him in a while.

[beam me up scottie]

152. Yep, you figured it out!

No sign of the op with an apology and a note to the mods to lock this.

Why am I not surprised?

Well, I've had enough "fun" for the night. I think I'll read a short story or two by Clive Barker so that I can clear all of the disgusting details of this thread out of my head before I have nightmares.

Ah, yes, something like this should do the trick:

[Danger Mouse]

154. You know you love it...

ew, bad dreams...I have enough trouble sleeping as it is...the faces of those I've killed, you see...they haunt me.

[peanutbrittle]

171. Why should I be concerned?......

I have seen the way the atheist bash the christian threads....like a gang of angry wolves

[neebob]

156. I'd go with a little stronger than improbable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=89361#89434

[progressoid]

158. Uh, yeah, makes me wanna repent

But I'm busy now. It'll have to wait until Law & Order CI is over.

[MikeH]

160. Another threat coming from some alleged revelation from God

Any alleged revelation from God is, in my opinion, at the very best, second-hand or hearsay. If God does reveal Herself/Himself to an individual person, it is a revelation to that person only.

All those threats from some alleged divine revelation to anybody who does not accept the revelation are like the boy who cries wolf.

Obviously certain people seem to get some pleasure, or some feeling of superiority or smug satisfaction, by telling us that we are in some serious trouble if we do not accept whatever alleged revelation from God which they accept.

[peanutbrittle]

163. Atheists deny race anthropology,

There is no other explaination of the evolution of the diversity of the races on our planet that I know of. The bottom line is the book teaches amalgamation and harmonization of the races & the three Godly
attributes of truth, beauty and love

below - comprehesive paper on the race issues and the U book
http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc729.htm

snip

The Urantia Book presents not only a detailed racial anthropology, but also a theoretical background covering the sources and history of racial conflict, the nature of racial transitions presently underway on our planet, and a view of human destiny which transcends genetic determinism and racial categories.

The Urantia Book provides an important contribution to the present day quest by acknowledging the biological factors while simultaneously providing a model for managing social repercussions which provides dignity for the individual and a positive approach for dealing with ongoing social and biological evolution. We are challenged to integrate scientific facts with spiritual values in order to derive the meanings wherewith an advanced order of human culture might be cultivated upon the biological substrate of the planet’s ecosystem.

The Urantia Book is very clear about the problems of racism and human intolerance being moral problems with roots in a lack of spiritual insight. Racism and intolerance are sources of evil which can only be eliminated by spiritual means.

Let’s review some of the terms which The Urantia Book uses in developing its model of racial anthropology.

more

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc729.htm

[Az]

164. Thats quite a strawman you have there

Thanks for spelling out what we atheists believe though. Its good to know that you have it covered.

When you really want to know what atheists think about race why don't you ask us instead of telling us.

[peanutbrittle]

167. I have asked...provide me with another document that will provide

information on the diversity of the races on our planet. Theoretical- Scientific i don't care

just something

[Az]

175. First tell me what you mean by race

Are all people with blue eyes a race? Blonde hair? Black skin? What demarks a member of a particular race?

You see the problem you are running into is you are trying to force human prediliction to label and codefy things that do not necissarily group together. This happens all the time in biology. Various species are grouped together because of some external trait. But when late examined genetically it is found that the relations are other than what first impressions suggested.

So your notions about race seem to be running afoul of this trait. Yes, groups of people with particular genetic expressions tend to cluster. The notion of race is false.

Just as an example. What race am I? I am descended from Irish, Polish, German, African, and Chinese ancestors. So... what am I?

[cosmik debris]

176. Race is stereotype

That is all there is to it. Nothing more. I think that was your point, but I wanted to say it as succinctly as possible to reinforce you position.

[Realityhack]

165. ROTFLMFAO n/t

[peanutbrittle]

166. Race and The Urant ia Book - JAMES H. PERRY, M.D., USA

n the final analysis, it would be hardly proper to
use the words “greater” or “lesser” in contrasting the
destinies of the ascending orders of sonship. Every
such son of God shares the fatherhood of God, and
God loves each of his creature sons alike; he is no
more a respecter of ascendant destinies than is he of
the creatures who may attain such destinies. The
Father loves each of his sons, and that affection is
not less than true, holy, divine, unlimited, eternal,
and unique—a love bestowed upon this son and
upon that son, individually, personally, and
exclusively. And such a love utterly eclipses all other
facts. Sonship is the supreme relationship of the
creature to the Creator <454:2>.
So how is one to reconcile his ideals of the
Heavenly Father with presented facts that
supposedly originated with beings that represent
Him? Well, for one thing, to just focus on the fact
of the inequalities of the races would be erroneous,
for we are instructed in The Urantia Book: Philosophers
commit their gravest error when they are misled into the
fallacy of abstraction, the practice of focusing the attention
upon one aspect of reality and then of pronouncing such an
isolated aspect to be the whole truth. The wise philosopher will
always look for the creative design which is behind, and
pre-existent to, all universe phenomena. The creator thought
invariably precedes creative action <42:6>.

snip

There is
in the mind of God a plan which embraces every creature of
all his vast domains, and this plan is an eternal purpose of
boundless opportunity, unlimited progress, and endless life.
And the infinite treasures of such a matchless career are
yours for the striving! <365:3>


snip

“Although you
cannot escape the recognition of differential human abilities
and endowments in matters intellectual, social, and moral,
you should make no such distinctions in the spiritual
brotherhood of men when assembled for worship in the
presence of God” <1468:3>.

snip

In summary, the divine plan called for the
evolution of mortal man from animals; secondly,
after the arrival of mortal man, it called for
extraplanetary personalities to guide and direct the
evolving humans, to organize society along moral
and ethical lines, and to rid the races of the debased
human stock that occurred as a result of human
mating with their animal cousins before the ability
to reproduce with them ended. This part of the
divine plan was derailed when Caligastia, the
Planetary Prince, joined the Lucifer Rebellion.
Secondly, the biological plan of uplifting the
races was also prematurely ended when Adam and
Eve degraded themselves to mortal status after
subsequently defaulting on their divine trust, thus
diluting the continuous stream of superior life plasm
that was designed to upstep the races. This
compounded the plight of the evolutionary races,
not withstanding that some gains were made to
uplift the races. The blue race received most of this
infusion of superior life plasm which eventually
produced the white race and the dominant culture
on the planet. As the races continued to evolve, we
eventually arrived at the stage where we are today.
Though the Spirit of Truth, as a result of Michael’s
bestowal, allows for the escape of individuals from
the double default spiritually, the races must now
proceed using largely human methods for race
improvement.
If we view the narration of the six evolutionary
races without the context of the planetary rebellion
and the Adamic default, it certainly appears that The
Urantia Book is racist and is designed only for the
white culture. However, careful study of the
revelation yields that insight which shows that this
is not the case. Is The Urantia Book racist? No! But
the races are, no doubt due to the lack of adequate
spirituality and subsequent lack of brotherly love.
The revelators are forced to tell the story as it
happened, not as it should have happened. Even
so, they tell what the destiny of the race problem is.
The races will eventually blend, and there will only
be one race. In the meantime, we should pay
attention to the reasons given for the evolution of
different races having differing potentials for
intellectual and spiritual receptivity.
We are told in The Urantia Book that evelation
is evolutionary but always progressive. Down through the
ages of a world’s history, the revelations of religion are
ever-expanding and successively more enlightening. It is the
mission of revelation to sort and censor the successive religions
of evolution. But if revelation is to exalt and upstep the
religions of evolution, then must such divine visitations
portray teachings which are not too far removed from the
thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented.
Thus must and does revelation always keep in touch with
evolution. Always must the religion of revelation be limited
by man’s capacity of receptivity <1007:1>. But even with
this being the case, it is not surprising that not all
people who pick up this book and browse through
or read it are prepared to assimilate its teachings.
The test of spiritual readiness is the ability to
comprehend and assimilate.
In the final analysis, The Urantia Book as a
divine revelation must ultimately be validated by
the faith of the individual. While it is true that
many historical facts can be verified from our own
records, there are many more that cannot, since
these events occurred before historical times, that
is, before written records were in use. I suppose a
lot of the questions and doubts that we have
concerning certain aspects of the fifth epochal
revelation are the unsuccessful worthy efforts of the
material mind to bypass the faith test. Like the
concept of the friendly universe, the creation of the
six evolutionary races with varying intellectual and
spiritual capacities requires spiritual insight to
discern the loving hand of the Father at work.

http://www.urantia-iua.org/Journal/PDF/IUAJmar03.pdf

[muriel_volestrangler]

169. After the exposure of what "urantia" is about in the subthread starting at post #69

I do now feel a little scared. Scared that someone who posts at DU apparently thinks this crap might have something to it, and that they'd link to it. You don't have to be an atheist to be scared by that, though - everyone who isn't a racist or eugenicist should be.

Thanks to those who read through the shit so the rest of us don't have to.

[peanutbrittle]

170. So you read one side of the argument and pay no mind to the other?

[muriel_volestrangler]

172. Look, when you yourself post stuff like this:

Secondly, the biological plan of uplifting the
races was also prematurely ended when Adam and
Eve degraded themselves to mortal status after
subsequently defaulting on their divine trust, thus
diluting the continuous stream of superior life plasm
that was designed to upstep the races. This
compounded the plight of the evolutionary races,
not withstanding that some gains were made to
uplift the races. The blue race received most of this
infusion of superior life plasm which eventually
produced the white race and the dominant culture
on the planet. As the races continued to evolve, we
eventually arrived at the stage where we are today.
Though the Spirit of Truth, as a result of Michael’s
bestowal, allows for the escape of individuals from
the double default spiritually, the races must now
proceed using largely human methods for race
improvement.

you have to expect it to be called 'racist' and 'eugenicist'. Wow, who'd have guessed that some white people wrote a book saying the 'white race' got most of the "superior life plasm"? And that "human methods for race improvement" have to be used now? We can see what this means:

No society has progressed very far when it permits idleness or tolerates poverty. But poverty and dependence can never be eliminated if the defective and degenerate stocks are freely supported and permitted to reproduce without restraint.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper71.html

Here's something that insults all the Christians here, and should appal everyone here:

The church, because of overmuch false sentiment, has long ministered to the underprivileged and the unfortunate, and this has all been well, but this same sentiment has led to the unwise perpetuation of racially degenerate stocks which have tremendously retarded the progress of civilization.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper99.html

You can't defend this garbage. Take it to Stormfront.

[cosmik debris]

174. I have to admit to some prejudice here

I firmly believe that race is NOT a valid concept in taxonomy. I have never seen any evidence that it is. I further believe that people who talk about race as if it was a valid concept of taxonomy are fucking racists. Either they are desperately trying to convince themselves that they come from better breeding stock, or they are just hateful people who want to feel superior to people who are less hateful.

That is my opinion as it applies to all parts of this thread. If anyone wants to dispute that, I will do my best to defend it.

[Wickerman]

177. locking

linked to site does not rest well on the palate.

Thanks,

Wickerman
DU Moderator