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Oprah: "None of us will never know what the truth was."

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 11:50 PM
Original message
Oprah: "None of us will never know what the truth was."
Oprah still feels that Michael Jackson could be a molestor but yet she will dedicate one of her shows on remembrance of Michael Jackson for ratings. Unbelievable. I know she has her opinion on this and I understand what happened to her long ago but after making that comment about Michael Jackson, she has gone down a lot of notches in my book. I will remember what she said and so will millions of his fans. It's no wonder she is getting a lot of backlash on her website that she's deleting all the pro Jackson comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YubAzfNUFGw
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. A specious presumption ....
but yet she will dedicate one of her shows on remembrance of Michael Jackson for ratings.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. If not for ratings, why else is she dedicating a show on MJ?
It can't be because she supports him and if you hear in the video, she was not friends with him. Oprah knows when she interviewed MJ at the Neverland Ranch years ago, the ratings for her show that night skyrocketed. That haven't happened since then. Another show on MJ and maybe her ratings will pick up. I read that the show wasn't doing so well.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. I hear crickets, Catherine....
...nobody seems to have any answer as to why the Michael Jackson-bashing Harpo is now again capitalizing on him to get ratings.

Humph. What a surprise. (not)

Beyotch needs therapy and needs to stop projecting her own molestation issues onto MJ.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. may i ask....?
what comment you're referring to?

today was the first time i've watched oprah in several years. i don't recall what she said during or after her original mj interview. if you don't mind refreshing my memory?

not asking to bait and attack (as so many do on du). i'm sincerly curious. thanks. :) :hi:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. You'll have to watch the video I linked. I think it's from a couple of days ago.
It's not what she said during her original interview, it's what she said a couple of days ago. And btw, I don't blame her for not attending the memorial or funeral being that she wasn't a friend. At least she's not hypocritcal.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. (shrug) But it's true. His behaviour was most definitely suspicious...
I'm still a huge fan of his music, of course.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. "suspicious" does not equal CRIMINAL. If it did...
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 03:55 PM by Triana
...half the people currently free in this country would be in prison - at LEAST.

ANYONE can accuse ANYONE of being a child molester these days. And once that accusation is made, it's VERY hard to DISprove - no matter WHAT the behavior of the accused is -- or is not.

I USED TO SHARE A BED with my nieces and nephews when I babysat (we'd pile in and watch TV), and with my cousins in earlier years AND their friends, sometimes.

MJ grew up in a two-bedroom house with NINE kids. They shared BEDS. And from the age of five, he travelled with his brothers - and they ALL shared ONE hotel room - and maybe two beds if they were lucky.

To him, it is not a big deal. It's 'family'. It was that way in our house too, sometimes. I suppose someone could come along and say that behavior is "suspicious" and accuse my family members or me of being a "child molester" too. It would be similar/same thing. Except that WE do not have Michael Jackson's money and fame and snakes out to get their hands on it and destroy us in the process by making such accusations.

But - that's what was done to MJ - and our culture being so fanatically UBER-sensitive to adults being in ANY vicinity of children in ANY context however utterly innocent - it SOLD. It SOLD magazines, tabloids, LOTS of viewers to "news" shows, and even launched some cretin's "journalistic" career.

CHILD MOLESTERS ALWAYS have many victims - numbering in tens, twenties, or even hundreds. They NEVER have just ONE or TWO - because the psychological issues that cause them to molest children is out of their control until/unless they go through intensive psychotherapy to get to the core of the issue.

The DA/prosecution in the Jackson case spared NO quarter in trying to "prove" his "guilt". They interviewed around THREE HUNDRED children that had been to Neverland and around MJ. NOT ONE of them said MJ had ever touched them inappropriately.

So that left the two. Both of them - speaking of "freaky" and "weird" - came from some pretty strange parents and were pretty obviously put up to the task by their parents. Read the court transcripts and read "Conspiracy" by Aphrodite Jones. The freaky Ms. Arvizo was a known extortionist and had tried the same schtick on other Hollywood celebrities - and even on department store security employee (JC Penny).

MJ was accused by TWO boys - both of whose parents were notorious extortionists - one of whom was out to get at his ex-wife via MJ and his relationship with his son (and to garner a tidy sum of moolah while he was at it) - and who drugged his son with a psychotropic drug to get him to make the allegations. READ the thread further down - the man outright ADMITTED it was an attempt at extortion.

I WAS MOLESTED AS A CHILD - between the age of 9 - 13. I KNOW WHAT CHILD MOLESTERS are like and what they are NOT like. They DO have a certain personality type. And that personality type was NOT Michael Jackson.

Read on - the TRUTH is out there for anyone who's at all interested.


Jackson witness admits lying in sex abuse trial

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article422705.ece
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oprah doesn't have to fish around for ratings.
Like most artists, she is considering the work above all. I don't boycott the poetry of Ezra Pound just because he was pro-Nazi.

Oh, wait. You think Michael Jackson WASN'T a child molester. Tell me, do you also believe he wasn't molested himself? Why is it you think he couldn't sleep so badly that he begged for drugs he'd been told could kill him?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Molested by who?
"Why is it you think he couldn't sleep so badly that he begged for drugs he'd been told could kill him?"

What makes you think that crap is the truth?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Your denial isn't even a river. It's a swamp.
What a petty plastic shallow creature your version of Michael Jackson is. You deny him every reality that shaped his life.

I dunno who molested him. But I know he was.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. he couldn't sleep well for a number of reasons...
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 11:04 AM by Triana
..he had lupus - one symptom which is insomnia. Insomnia also runs in his family. Also, he was a performer/entertainer and was often on tour for OVER A YEAR AT A TIME.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S LIKE?

You go through 2 time zones per day (minimum) - suffer constant jet lag, and the adrenelin never lets up - IT CAN'T.

YOU...TRY...having any kind of regular sleep schedule whilst living that way.

HAVE YOU EVER LIVED THAT WAY? And if not - HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

DO YOU KNOW there are videos out there where MICHAEL JACKSON HIMSELF EXPLAINS THIS? Of course you don't. Because you haven't LOOKED.

Truth is - you DON'T know. You are simply and flippantly passing judgement based on your own lack of understanding and willful ignorance. You haven't even CONSIDERED that there may be more to the situation than you're aware of.

GET A CLUE!



HAVE YOU EVER GONE FOR WEEKS WITHOUT ADEQUATE SLEEP? DO YOU KNOW what that's like? NO? I figured as much.

ALSO regarding lupus - another symptom is SEVERE bone and joint pain. My brother in law has it. HE HAS TO LIVE ON PAINKILLERS TO FUNCTION. IT'S NOT A CHOICE. He can't get out of bed or go to work (or pay their mortgage) without it. Hello? He's what they call a "necessary" addict - until/unless the pain can be dealt with, he stays on Oxycontin - or he cannot function.

BUT - I bet you've never CONSIDERED THAT possibility - or any of these other things - because

YOU WERE TOO BUSY IGNORANTLY PASSING JUDGEMENT.



DID YOU LISTEN TO MADONNA'S SPEECH ABOUT MICHAEL? Maybe you should. Especially the part about "we were too busy passing judgement".

I have read NOWHERE that Michael Jackson was sexually "molested" as a child.

But I DO know he WAS SEVERELY ABUSED by his father - HE SAID SO. YOUR assumption that he was sexually molested is JUST THAT - YOUR assumption - and no more. You make it because it enables you do define him the way you want to - and YOUR definition of the man - just like the media's definition of him - has NOTHING to do with what the TRUTH is - or even any of the surrounding FACTS. Not that you CARE about that. Obviously.

If you can't find some documentation (from HIM) to back it up - then chuck it.

I SINCERELY HOPE that someone, someday (the whole world) during the toughest times in YOUR life, JUDGES YOU as ignorantly, harshly, and as uncompassionately as YOU are judging others - specifically Michael Jackson. AND I WISH THAT on everyone who does it and everyone who did it to him during his life.



It's just plain damn IGNORANT and there's no excuse for it. YOU'D THINK ANYONE WHO HANGS OUT ON DU WOULD KNOW BETTER. But - guess not. It's a Republican level of willful ignorance that I thought would be rare here. But - I guess that's not the case.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. She didn't say anything wrong.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. That's your opinion. :) nt
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Her opinion about whether he was a molester or not...
is irrelevant. He was the most famous entertainer on the face of the earth, and a damn good singer/dancer. Why not do a special on him? And the only reason to have a TV show is for ratings.

She's interviewed Whitney Houston (today's show). Did she do it for the ratings? :eyes:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. "Did she do it for the ratings?"
Don't know, don't care. I like Whitney but I'll catch her on someone else's show. Oprah is no more in my household.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. Off topic.
"...but she will dedicate" or "...yet she will dedicate"

Okay, continue on. ;-)
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. But none of us will know what the truth was. We might have a strong belief
one way or the other but to say he did or did not is our opinion.
Someone can not be sure if someone did something and still be a fan or a friend or a loving family member
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. Delete
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 01:24 AM by Iggo
(must stay out of this stuff)
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. She's part of the &@%$#! media - she's a media bottom-feeder like Diane Dimond and Martin Bashir
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 08:17 AM by Triana
She was mum on Jackson's death - never had a word about it - and only decided that now she can use that 1993 interview to again boost her ratings, simultaneously (and AGAIN) badmouthing the man - about the allegations - about his vitiligo (she said once she didn't believe he had it - that she thought he was just trying to be white, etc.)

Oprah needs THERAPY. And she needs to stop projecting her own issues on to Michael Jackson - an innocent man. I WAS MOLESTED AS A CHILD - and even *I* never believed Michael was guilty of what he was accused of. His personality is NOT that of a molester. It just isn't. Shoe doesn't fit. THEN there is the the fact that the TWO accusers were so OBVIOUSLY lying (put up to it by extortionist parents with a record of doing such things to other stars). The prosecution interviewed over THREE HUNDRED other children who had been to Neverland. Not ONE other one made such accusations. The thing about child molesters is that they usually have a LOT of victims - never just TWO.

THEN there is the fact that the DA Sneddon had been investigating MJ for YEARS trying to find something on him (can you say RACIST?), the media which took lots of profit and joy in persecuting the man, and the extortionist themselves accusing him of what just to get the money. THEY SPARED NO QUARTER trying to MAKE MJ "guilty" - but in a court of law, in a trial where all FACTS were known - he was judged NOT guilty. Because he wasn't.

Now, I guess Oprah thinks so much of herself that she thinks she can overturn or ignore the results of a trial on her show - and her willful ignorance demonstrates that she hasn't even bothered to look at the FACTS.

She's part of the tabloid media as far as I'm concerned - uses MJ to boost ratings and get viewers - and trashes him while she does it.

The media is SCUM. INCLUDING Oprah.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
16. Counterpunch: The Persecution of Michael Jackson -The Mad Dog DA and the Mad Dog Media
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 08:15 AM by Triana

THIS IS THE SAME MEDIA - that DUers et al KNOW BETTER than to believe when they slant and skew their reporting on things like the lead-up to the Iraq invasion, our elections and campaigns, rendition and torture, health care, etc. - but somehow - this same media, in the minds of these same viewers and readers - are/were somehow thought to be telling the accurate TRUTH about Michael Jackson. (?!)
:wtf:

Or maybe the welfare-frauding, profit-seeking Arvizo woman was telling the truth - suddenly - for the first time in her life? She didn't come up with the accusations until after Martin Bashir's fucking hit-piece on Jackson was aired by none other than - you guessed it - the lame$tream media. Or, maybe the Sodium Amytal-drugged up boy Jordie Chandler and his greedy Dad who wanted Jackson to build him a house was telling the truth?

Right. . . I'd think people would KNOW BETTER by now. Especially on DU. Pfft.

_ _ _ _ _

Counterpunch: The Persecution of Michael Jackson -The Mad Dog DA and the Mad Dog Media

...

When the bulletin that Michael Jackson had died flashed across the screen, I was prepared for TV at it’s worst and I wasn’t disappointed. The man wasn’t cold before the familiar adjectives were rolled out. “Weird, bizarre, eccentric,” the traditional language used to disparage artists by the bourgeoisie. Dan Abrams, who made his reputation by convicting O. J. Simpson before the opening arguments of his criminal trial, made a snarky comment about Jackson’s weirdness. Mr. Abrams, a higher up at MSNBC, employs a Hitler admirer named Pat Buchanan. Given Abram’s background, why isn’t that considered weird?

...

Also weird was MSBC’s Savanah Guthries’ air-headed depiction of the trial. (For a list of Ms. Guthries’ false reportings see http://www.MediaMatters.com). She said that the evidence against Jackson in the trial was “devastating." So devastating that some legal experts said that Jackson should never have been brought to trial and that the aim of the trial was to seek a pound of flesh from Jackson for being uppity and for putting the name of Thomas W. Sneddon Jr., a vindictive District Attorney, into a song. In my opinion it was the prosecution of Jackson by this District Attorney, who, among other things, violated Jackson’s fourth amendment rights, and made disparaging remarks about the star during a press conference, and the side-show pro prosecution media coverage that killed Jackson.

...

Because of the malicious prosecution of Jackson by Sneddon and Sneddon’s claque in the media, Jackson will always be regarded as a pedophile. (When the trial opened, a USA Today / CNN / Gallup Poll found that 72% of whites and 51% of Blacks believed that the charges against Jackson were “Definitely” or “Probably” true.) Wherever “Mad Dog” Sneddon, this hateful man might be in his retirement, he can gloat over the death of the man against whom he waged a vendetta with all of the power of the state at his disposal. Sneddon even tried to introduce photos of Jackson’s genitals during the 2005 trial, which proved too much even for the pro prosecution judge.

Of course, none of Sneddon’s abuse or the abuse of Jackson by his accusers was mentioned by an old corporate media, out of touch and on life supports. For infotainers like Katie Couric, Jackson’s father Joe was MJ’s sole abuser. In the eyes of yesterday’s media, black fathers are the principal actors in domestic violence.

...

Fisher wrote: “It’s a story of greed, ambition, misconceptions of part of police and prosecutors, a lazy and sensation-seeking media and the use of a powerful, hypnotic drug. It may also be a story about how a case was simply invented.”

Fisher claimed that the first case arose from the ambitions of the thirteen-year-old accuser’s stepfather, Evan Chandler, who exploited Jackson’s friendship with his son. At one point, he asked Jackson to build him a house. Fisher said that the child denied being abused by Jackson until he was administered the drug sodium amytal, which is known to induce false memory.
Chandler refused to be interviewed for the article and refused to appear on the Today Show, where Fisher repeated her charges before a nationwide audience. She said that the whole scheme was concocted by the child’s stepfather to destroy the superstar.

None of the media descriptions of Jackson’s career, including a superficial pop-driven survey of the star’s career by Anderson Cooper, referred to the 2005 plaintiff’s lies and his mother’s shabby history of conning individuals and institutions including J. C. Penney’s, which she accused of sexual abuse. She claimed that she had been “fondled inappropriately” by store personnel. Documents also hinted that “…the mom rehearsed her children to corroborate her story.”

During the 2005 trial, Jackson’s Attorney, Tom Mesereau Jr. got the teenage boy to admit that he lied under oath during the J. C. Penny case. USA Today reported on March 1, 2005, that the mother used the boy as a prop to get money from Mike Tyson, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, Jay Leno and others, “even though insurance was paying his bills." Linda Deutsch, one of the last of hard-nosed shoe leather journalists, reporting for the Associated Press on March of 2005. said that Mesereau got the 15 year old to admit that he’d told Jeffrey Alpert, a school official that “nothing happened" between Jackson and him.

Connie Keenan, editor of Mid Valley News, wrote of a hoax that the boy’s mother perpetrated on that newspaper. She made a pitch that her son needed medical care and that she had no financial means to provide it. During the first week of the newspaper’s appeal, the mother received $965 in donations. It turned out that the boy was being treated at Kaiser Permanente in Los Angeles with no cost to the family. Connie Keenan concluded that “My gut level, she’s a shark. She was after money. My readers were used. My staff was used. It’s sickening."

While referring to Jackson as “bizarre” none of the cable reporting about Jackson’s death cited the bizarre courtroom testimony of the plaintiff’s mother, Janet Arvizo. At one point during her testimony, she said that feared her children would disappear from Neverland, Jackson’s ranch, in a hot air balloon.
:wtf:


...

November of 2006, according to TMZ, Janet Arvizo pled no contest to a welfare fraud charge in Los Angeles. She was ordered to 150 hours of community service and to pay $8, 600 in restitution. During Jackson's trial, Arvizo invoked the Fifth regarding welfare fraud. Seems that she applied for welfare even though she’d received a $150, 000 settlement from J. C. Penny’s. Even with the mother’s behavior and the boys lies, Nancy Grace, commenting on the death of Jackson, said that she was surprised by the not guilty verdict in the Jackson trial. No wonder Ms. Grace has been called” a cheerleader for the prosecution.”

Yet, these journalists insist that their news product is superior to that of bloggers. (Journalistic bottom feeder, Diane Dimond, a Sneddon fan and Jackson stalker was invited by MSNBC to weigh in during which she was allowed to engage in doofus speculation much of it ugly about Jackson’s life and death)

G. Q. s Mary Fisher accused her colleagues of lazy journalism of the sort that defamed Jackson in life and in death. Maureen Orth from Vanity Fair didn’t read Mary Fisher’s findings. She was on the Chris Matthews Show accusing Jackson of “serious felonies” involving pedophilia. Another reporter who seemed to nullify the 2005 Jackson jurie's decision was “Morning Joe’s” adjunct bimbo, Courtney Hazlett. She said that there would be no pilgrimage to Neverland and as there was to Graceland, because “bad things happened at Never Land." We are led to believe that Presley and his entourage spent their days at Graceland drinking milk and reading each other passages from the scriptures.

All of these opinions seem to indicate that Cable’s talking heads have taken it upon themselves to nullify the judgment of juries whenever they please. This all white electronic jury has placed itself above the law.

But at least Jackson didn’t suffer from the kind of hi tech lynching accorded the tragic Patsy Ramsey. For years cable, which now not only calls elections but acts as judge and jury, accused her of murdering her child. Only after her death was it found that she was innocent.

If the reporting on Jackson’s death by the media wasn’t salacious and ignorant enough, it didn’t get any better the next day, June 26.

Ignoring Jackson’s philanthropic pursuits and contributions to forty charities, on the “Today Show,“ it was all about what happened to all of the nigger’s money and whether he died from too many drugs and what’s to become of his children, questions meant to attract the prurient. Again, Diane Dimond was invited on to spread scurrilous unconfirmed rumors about the dead star. Some of the modern day carnival barkers like Chris Matthews expressed surprise that Jackson’s death resulted in such an outpouring of worldwide mourning. This is what happens to people like Matthews who dwell in an insulated white supremacist bubble (that includes the Anglo wannabe and Churchill admiring Irish among them) which holds that a narrow cultural strip between New York and Washington represents the world.

...

With the absence of black and Latinos from journalism, the media have become a spare all white jury always ready to take down a black celebrity for the entertainment of the types who used to attend those acts created by P. T. Barnum.



MORE...

http://www.counterpunch.org/reed06292009.html
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Chandler's father: "It will be a massacre if I don’t get what I want." - too bad OPRAH CAN'T READ
That's called EXTORTION. Duh. Was Michael Jackson Framed? Well - it's on tape . . .

...Elsewhere on the tape, Chandler indicated he was prepared to move against Jackson: “It’s already set,” Chandler told Schwartz. “There are other people involved that are waiting for my phone call that are in certain positions. I’ve paid them to do it. Everything’s going according to a certain plan that isn’t just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him full authority to do that.”

Chandler then predicted what would, in fact, transpire six weeks later: “And if I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I’ve checked that inside out. I will get everything I want, and they will be destroyed forever. June will lose ...and Michael’s career will be over.”

“Does that help ?” Schwartz asked.

“That’s irrelevant to me,” Chandler replied. “It’s going to be bigger than all of us put together. The whole thing is going to crash down on everybody and destroy everybody in sight. It will be a massacre if I don’t get what I want.”

Instead of going to the police, seemingly the most appropriate action in a situation involving suspected child molestation, Chandler had turned to a lawyer. And not just any lawyer. He’d turned to Barry Rothman.

“This attorney I found, I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find,” Chandler said in the recorded conversation with Schwartz. “All he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can, and humiliate as many people as he can. He’s nasty, he’s mean, he’s very smart, and he’s hungry for the publicity.” (Through his attorney, Wylie Aitken, Rothman declined to be interviewed for this article. Aitken agreed to answer general questions limited to the Jackson case, and then only about aspects that did not involve Chandler or the boy.)



http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you CV
Michael was a good person. The media lies. The racist media lies twice. I sit and read these threads and DUers always claim to 'know' what they do not know, what they read in gossip rags.
It is educational to go back to the UK tabloids the day of his death and just prior to it. I wish I had a link. They were saying he could not sing, that he could barely move. They were saying the O2 Arena shows were going to have just 15 minutes of MJ, the rest they said would be 'lights and choreography'. The fact is the rehearsal videos alone will be released for all to see. The one we have seen is several minutes of dancing, singing, and fierce performance.
As always I have to point out the nature of the song from that video. Michael sang about the media and government corruption, invoked both MLK Jr and FDR by name as heros who would not have stood for things as they are. His last words were about the powers that be and they were " all I want to say is that they don't really care about us." A great message to be sending to his millions of fans, who listened to him, unlike the DUers who call his music 'vapid dance pop'. Vapid dance pop about FDR and media control, like all vapid dance pop.
Had MJ been white, and sang that song, more people would have noticed the content of the lyrics, just as they would have noticed the content of Michael's character, and that of most of his family. Good people, good Democrats.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. "they don't really care about us" - THANK YOU Bluenorthwest - all you have said
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 10:18 AM by Triana
is JUST IT.

UNBELIEVABLE the 180 between who and what Michael Jackson REALLY was and how the media defined him - (which was ALWAYS in the negative).

..."Had MJ been white, and sang that song, more people would have noticed the content of the lyrics, just as they would have noticed the content of Michael's character."

BAM! Righteous, baby.

There are SO MANY songs Michael sang that OUGHT TO HAVE PROFOUND MEANING for anyone on DU or anywhere who professes to be progressive/Democratic - to care about social justice (ANY justice). But many hearts and minds are sealed shut. Nothing gets in. Nothing comes out (except ignorance, and subsequent judgement, abandonment and hate). Reminds me of Republicans. Willful ignorance.

Thank you for what you wrote above. :loveya:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I calls 'em as I sees 'em
But I will add that I was surprised by the lack of curiosity about the content of that last performance. Not the bigotry. Just why would people not check out the lyrics, out of even morbid curiosity. I read a comment here about the car horn sound at the end of the song, 'how stupid' they said. Well it was rehearsal, so the timing was not perfect, but when does one sound the car horn? Just before the crash, to try to stop the crash from happening.
To me, any artist would be happy to leave the Earth giving that warning. It could have been any song, Billy Jean say. But it was not. And I know that for MJ, if he had to go, he would be glad to go out sounding a warning and counting his rich self as one of the 'us' that 'they' don't care about. I hope my last words are such, even if they are heard by a handful.
And you know what? They really don't care about us. As usual, Michael spoke the truth.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. "And you know what? They really don't care about us. As usual, Michael spoke the truth."
Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 11:17 AM by Triana
Righteous. He did. He always did. And that song was a warning. Many of his songs were. I know he'd be happy to have that one, and some of the others - be his lasting 'message' to the world - or at least those who will listen - along with his essays and poems/quotes.

Too bad more people don't listen - Michael had important things to say and he said it in his song and dance and performance - and his writing! He was wise and very aware of what was wrong in this World and endeavored - always - to effect change for the better - to teach through his art - to make a difference - to be a force for good.

This video is one of my favorites - which is why the image+quote I posted earlier was so poignant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2Erv2Xqp4
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks Triana and Bluenorthwest for giving the facts about MJ
Hey Oprah...Are you a virgin? :eyes:
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Pfft! Yes. I'd LOVE to see someone ask HER that question. Sheesh. n/t
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. The truth is his dad screwed up his life. nt
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. He had lupus? That's news to me.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Dr. Klein diagnosed him with that first time he saw him.
And vitiligo.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is not new... she's always had this position
It makes perfect sense given her personal history. People who have been molested are not as inclined to so quickly right off a child's accusations. She is well aware of the fact that people have been falsely accused but she is also aware of the fact that victims are often disbelieved or ignored and never get any justice. I'm sure she is also well aware of the role of celebrity in helping people get away with that which others could not. I think it says a lot about her that she was willing to do any sort of tribute. This is the woman that stood behind President Clinton as he signed the National Child Protection Act. Anyone expecting any more than that from her is WAY out of line.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Yes, she's been badmouthing him since after that 1993 interview - and I was molested as a child..
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 07:06 PM by Triana
...and I had NO PROBLEM discerning that Jackson was NOT guilty of what he was accused of. NO ONE listened to ME when I told them what was going on when I was molested - least of all the wife of the man who was doing it to me. She believed HIM.

HOWEVER - - -

I NEVER - EVER thought Michael Jackson was guilty. The shoe simply doesn't fit. He didn't have that kind of personality. The facts don't add up. The M.O. doesn't add up. The evidence is NOT there. AND he was adjudged NOT GUILTY on all 10 counts in a trial - and NO effort or expense was spared to MAKE him seem guilty in the eyes of the World - not by Sneddon, not by the prosecution and NOT by the fucking media. And even with ALL THAT against him - a jury STILL found him NOT guilty on all 10 counts.

Lemme tell ya something: Child molestation is EASY to discover if it's REALLY GOING ON. It becomes obvious after the molester has amassed enough victims in enough situations. Once one victim has come forward, others follow - usually MANY - as well as many who would corroborate their stories.

However, that the prosecution and Sneddon had to go to the EXTREME lengths they went to - to TRY to FIND some damning enough evidence against Michael Jackson - and that they STILL couldn't (nor could they find anyone to corroborate the accusers' ever-changing storeies) - tells me - same as it told the jury - that he was INNOCENT.

Oprah needs to DEAL with her own CRAP and stop projecting it onto an innocent man. I understand it - I was a victim of molestation too. THAT'S HOW I KNOW what molesters are LIKE (and what they're NOT like) - and how they work.

Her having been a victim herself is NO excuse to ignore the FACTS and assist in perpetuating what has been essentially years of a media lynching of an innocent man.

She could have simply said NOTHING about it if SHE PERSONALLY wasn't "sure" about his guilt - rather than perpetuating the media persecution if she doesn't KNOW - and she doesn't KNOW - she obviously hasn't even looked at the transcripts or read any of the books about the case from those WHO WERE THERE.

She's also apparently ARROGANT enough to think SHE is somehow qualified to overturn the verdict of a jury trial. :wtf:

I don't think it's expecting too much of a media figure of Oprah's magnitude to NOT assist in persecuting - on primetime television - (even if only possibly in her mind) an innocent man. Even (ESPECIALLY) if he IS dead and beloved the world over like Jackson is.

In fact, being that she IS Oprah - I think we ought to EXPECT MORE and BETTER of her than to do that.

She ought not to make HER issues Michael Jackson's issues. Oprah needs to OWN her own shit and stop projecting it onto someone else. She's NOT helping herself by doing that and she has damaged another person's life (and now, his legacy) by doing it.

HOW IS THAT HELPING ANYTHING OR ANYONE?

It isn't. It simply is NOT.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You are 100% confident in his innocence... that's your prerogative
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 07:47 PM by Blasphemer
Not everyone agrees. For one that does not agree, expressing uncertainty about his guilt or innocence does not equal a lynching. Innocent people have been found guilty of crimes in court just as guilty people have been known to be acquitted of crimes. For you it is black and white. For others, including Ms. Winfrey, it is not so simple.
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. An exam by a dermatologist is not a conclusive diagnosis.
Did a rheumatologist concur with diagnosis? I have RA and lupus and I am very surprised to hear this and at this point I would be more inclined to believe that it was more of a series of suggested ailments that had not yet been ruled out.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I don't know that he saw a rheumatologist - but many concur with the diagnosis
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 04:01 AM by Triana
And African Americans are apparently FOUR times more prone to the disease than caucasians:

http://organizedwisdom.com/Michael_Jackson_Lupus

As far as being "very surprised" to hear this - well - since the media has LIED and DISTORTED most everything about Michael Jackson - and just left most FACTS OUT - like this one - OF COURSE you're surprised to hear it. Most people are SURPRISED to hear about his extensive humanitarian legacy too - and his vitiligo - and a LOT of other things the media didn't bother to tell anyone - they were too busy persecuting the man, telling lies about him, twisting facts - when they bothered with them at all.

I could be snarky and say - "well, you're likely not a doctor yourself", whereas Klein is - and there may have been other docs who made the same diagnosis. Because it's a "surprise" to YOU doesn't mean he didn't have the disease. You are not qualified to diagnose that. Your own ignorance doesn't make it a lie.

Bottom line: he obviously had some serious health issues that certainly may have necessitated strong painkillers - be it lupus or other issues. Not that anyone wants to acknowledge that. It's easier to scream

"JUNKIE!!!"

- like the media does. That judgemental sensationalism gets more website clicks, sells more tabloids, and gets more teevee viewers too, than talking about the health problems he had that may have justified at least some of his drug use if not all of it.

If we spent as much time on gathering information and facts as we do on making snap judgements of people (for fun and profit, in the media's case), the world would certainly be a better place.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. My "perogative" isn't destroying another beloved (innocent) person's life . . .
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 03:40 AM by Triana
...and when one's "perogatives" ARE destroying another (innocent/potentially innocent) person's life (or legacy) - then one's "perogatives" and how one exercises them need closer examination - like Oprah's. ESPECIALLY Oprah's - since she is a public media figure with GREAT influence on the perceptions of the public. Her behavior is ignorant and selfish -- because she KNOWS her own influence. SHE KNOWS exactly what she's doing.

What she's NOT doing is the work she needs to do on herself. It's a woman in the mirror problem with her. It's a PERSONAL issue for her and she needs to KEEP it that way and STOP forcing another / others to suffer for it - ESPECIALLY if they are or "might" be INNOCENT.

It really IS NOT all about HER and she needs to get over herself.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Oprah can go fly a kite!
:)
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I wish she'd jump in a deep lake - that, or begin taking some responsibility..
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 10:52 AM by Triana
...for HERSELF and her prominent position in the media.

BUT - that is the problem. She's part of the MEDIA, and "responsibility" and "journalistic integrity" isn't in their vocabulary. Opportunism, ratings, and profit are.

I'm still hearing those crickets about ratings. If she didn't put that 1993 interview back on for ratings, then why? Why BOTHER if she doesn't think any more of the guy than she apparently does?

Pfft! Oi.
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. This Elvis stuff is getting old.
"I could be snarky and say - "well, you're likely not a doctor yourself", whereas Klein is - and there may have been other docs who made the same diagnosis. Because it's a "surprise" to YOU doesn't mean he didn't have the disease. You are not qualified to diagnose that. Your own ignorance doesn't make it a lie. "

I'd call your response snarky. I don't believe he had lupus. Like I said I have lupus and I am more concerned about accurate information being reported.

It doesn't matter to me though, he's your jesus, so worship.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Reminder: It's YOUR "perogative" to NOT read it. n/t


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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. "...he's your jesus, so worship."
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
41. ...especially when we don't make the effort to find out the truth.
Fricking Oprah. Self-serving hypocrite. If she's not sure, then why even dedicate her show to Michael? Oh, wait, it might have to do with the fact that her interview with Michael was one of the biggest ratings-getters of all time. :eyes: Can't stand her.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. good question..
..:wtf:

She obviously didn't think much of the guy, so why dedicate a show to him - if NOT for ratings? NO ONE can justify it, otherwise.

She used him and abused him for ratings and profit like the rest of the media. And just like the rest of the media, I've NO use for her, either.

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Yehonala Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. She should stuff her face with doughnuts.
Oprah should stuff her face with a couple more doughnuts. Using Michael as much as his crooked family. Lowlife. She went down in my book when she said a lot of low stuff about the cattle industry. Then so many other things over the years.
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