Watched History Channel (I know) series last night on the Armageddon/Revelations end-of-the-world

[T Wolf]

gig.

In general, I like apocalyptic-type entertainment. And, it was well-done with the special effects. I kinda viewed it like a sci-fi movie.

And I was interested in learning more about that particular Christian belief.

But, the shocker was the end. And even though I "knew" that the payoff for the whack-jobs was eternal salvation, it still was a shock when they got to the end.

I learned that...

They REALLY DO want the rest of the planet, life and all, to be destroyed in these most horrible ways so that they can go to heaven!

How fucking callous and unChrist-like can human beings be? The celebratory vibe at the end was downright obscene in its glorification of destruction.

And to think that Saint Ronnie believed in that shit was scary beyond belief. Anyone who holds such views should not be let anywhere near any position of power or influence.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. Actually I think these people are mentally ill

what sane person would think that

[Warpy]

3. Some slick guy in an expensive suit with a fancy car

got up in a pulpit and told them they were special and that as long as they tithed and gave lip service, they were bribing their way out of hell and it didn't matter how rotten they were to everybody else or how dead end their lives were, there would be pie in the sky when they die, or before that if they manage to knock Jesus off his heavenly throne and force him to come back like he promised to.

Sadly, a lot of these people don't realize they still have something left to lose by following this horseshit dogma.

The only good news is that the old guard are getting on in years and starting to die off and the heirs to their empire lack their charisma.

I just hope the old bastards die off before they do manage to start something to get the nukes flying.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. they don't seem to have too many of these in other countries?

[Warpy]

9. It took Europe two world wars fought on their soil

with the Great Depression between them to grow up and realize god wasn't on their side or anybody else's, for that matter. They started to look out for themselves instead of expecting some sky god to do it. He'd been MIA for far too long during the last century for them to count on him much.

There's little reason not to believe in a benevolent deity in this country. We're all unimaginably rich compared to most of the world's people when you look at the things in our houses, which is all we're brought up to look at. We only start looking poor when we look at health care, vacation time, and other quality of life issues and we've been conditioned to think of those things as our own fault.

Likely this newest version of the Great Republican Depression tradition will encourage a lot of people to abandon the silly prosperity theology that has gotten their butts in the megachurch pews for the last 30 years, but it will take far more to get them to abandon all that other Sunday school stuff to the extent Europe has.

[katmondoo]

2. It was beginning to give me nightmares

I turned the channel before it ended. Way too creepy.

[Warpy]

4. It's also total bullshit

so don't worry about it too much.

That "plane of the galaxy" stuff is especially hilarious. The plane of the galaxy is millions of miles across. If crossing it caused the end of the world, it would have done so thousands of years ago.

[T Wolf]

6. I did notice the "leaps in logic" that enabled them to smoothly go from one revelation to the

next.

What struck me was the absolute disregard for others that those wishing (and praying) for total destruction have. And it also does come out in their regard and relationships with others in this life.

Just disgusting.

[The Unknown Derelict]

7. Quit Generalizing People...

Instead of saying Christians and their beliefs are stupid, you should instead focus on what you would probably refer to as the positive beliefs such as helping the poor and other progressive ideas to win votes.

The right wing manipulates folks into giving them their vote by making them afraid through the use of tactics such as this. Just look at Rush Limbaugh at CPAC.

As a progressive Christian (no, I'm not a "Jesus Camp" type Christian...I think those people are crazy), I don't appreciate your stereotypes. I keep my faith personal and never inject it in everyday conversation.

Reading what you wrote is kind of like hearing GOP talk negative things about Muslims. Not all Muslims are wacky extremists.

Your sentence in bold is incorrect and not fact. I would not want anybody to suffer and certainly do not want the world to end. Reading things like what you wrote make me feel as though I'm still somehow an 'outsider' to the progressive cause because I am a Christian, and I'm reading that you think people like me are mentally ill.

Speaking of Rush, I feel the same way about your post as I did when I heard the comments he made at CPAC...gross.

I can see your point, but please respect others beliefs and they respect yours. I don't believe in the whole right-wing bible thumping way of thinking, so please don't generalize me in this category of people.

By respecting others beliefs, you can win votes from all parties just as Obama in this last election instead of being the party of 23% that the Repub's are now.

[T Wolf]

8. Are you saying that YOU want the world to be destroyed so that YOU can go to heaven?

I know that not all Christians believe everything in the bible. I was just commenting on those that buy into the apocalypse bullshit and actually want it to come about.

I did not intend to imply that all Christians are like that.

[The Unknown Derelict]

10. It wasn't clear in the original post...

...that you didn't generalize all Christians as you did, which is why I responded. My purpose was not to cause a problem or anything, but at the same time I felt compelled to reply.

You ask me, "Are you saying that YOU want the world to be destroyed so that YOU can go to heaven?", and I'm wondering if you read my post or just skimmed it.

You can see what I wrote speaks for itself, and that answer was a resounding "NO, I don't want the world to be destroyed."

My exact words were, "I would not want anybody to suffer and certainly do not want the world to end."

My reply doesn't get much clearer than that. But I've been a 24/7 lurker since before or around 2000 (I found out about du from SmirkingChimp.com back in the day) so I know how these kind of threads deteriorate.

But since we're on the subject, do you ask every Muslim you encounter if they believe in beheadings and that heaven is virgin paradise?

I think I proved my point. I don't believe for a minute that any Muslim believes in that except the extremists. And there are unfortunately extremists in every religion or political party in every aisle. This concept could be applied not only to what we see with religion, but also race and other areas.

I don't take offense, it's just that if you want to win votes you should focus on the positive rather than the negative and avoid generalizations. Now that I know you weren't generalizing though because you told me and I believe you. And I honestly want to thank you for your clarification.

And because I'm not a "Jesus Camp" type of Christian, I totally understand the point of your OP and give you credit on the idea, but felt it was unfortunate that it wasn't clearer in the OP that you weren't generalizing. Apologies if I didn't understand the OP.

Believe me I'm the least confrontational person you could ever have a conversation with, I usually keep my opinion to myself (as proven by my lurking :)) but felt like I had to speak up for Christian progressives like myself because I felt the OP was inaccurate.

[T Wolf]

12. Communication - what a concept. I "sometimes" do go off on people and say things that come across

wrong - or exactly as I meant (but also wrong).

That is one of the problems with the instant communications possible on the net - the internal governor between the brain and mouth (keyboard) does not always engage.

And while I can be anti-Christian at times, my better self knows better.

Thanks for your feedback.

[The Unknown Derelict]

13. Hey...

...thank you too my friend. :)

This an example of something I like about du, is how people with opinions such as ours come together for 'the cause'. Makes me proud to be a progressive. Where the GOP is non-inclusive we are inclusive of all. We may disagree at times, but in the end we resolve differences and come together.

I tend to have rants about the same thing which you do too, haha check any of my previous posts in other threads. I feel great in saying that James Dobson doesn't (never has or will) speak for me. :)

Imagine the world if right wingers really practiced the teachings of Jesus. I always like to point out he wasn't hanging out with the money changers (big business) but rather the downtrodden. He also didn't 'force' his beliefs on others like the GOP tries to do through the use of laws or 'strong arming'.

Another thing I remind them of - God didn't take away free will from Adam/Eve when he booted them from the Garden of Eden, so why do they want to take away anybody's right, including that to marry? I use marriage as an example since they really try to use that to draw a wedge between people by appealing to their bigotry.

I believe they just grandstand for votes because it works with the less intelligent types (lol, the 23% of the GOP who are hard wired to 'hate').

[a la izquierda]

11. Oh wait, my friend, until they bungle 2012

and the poor Mayans...
I actually had a very panicked student watch the Mayan Doomsday Prophecy program last year and come into class in a tizzy about it. For 20 minutes I had to field questions from college juniors and seniors about whether I thought the world would end in 2012. Mind you, the students know I'm not a Mayanist (I study Mexican indigenous history, but not the Mayan people specifically) and I'm a 30 year old grad student...so I'm trying to teach a bunch of flipped out kids without giggling hysterically at History Channel induced fear.

That stuff used to scare the crap out of me until I realized that a black hole in the middle of the Milky Way might just suck up Limpballs and hopefully that would be enough to spare the rest of us...

[DesertDiamond]

14. This stuff does make great sci-fi! And true Christians don't think this way...

As a Buddhist I keep having the urge to stand up and defend Jesus and my friends who truly follow what he taught. Being happy at the thought of others suffering is not what Jesus taught at all.

[Crowman1979]

15. This whole apocalyptic/Revalations craze can be blamed on all of those preachers willing to scare..

...the shit out of you in order to make a lot of dough. They go on their megachurch pulpit saying one thing and use the tithes or revenue from books/DVD sales to pay for their mansion and prostitutes.

IMO Megachurches should be banned entirely! All it does is break up communities and encourages a wal-mart style of mass-fear consumption for a religion that use to be good, till all these so-called attention whore church leaders and saints started popping out of nowhere in order to gain power instead of making the world a better place.