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If this questions been ask already disregard "Why NH" and not

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hangloose Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:49 PM
Original message
If this questions been ask already disregard "Why NH" and not
a battle ground state for recount.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. test case.
small state, paper original ballots (optical scan), serious questions on analysis.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Not quite, but that's a supporting part of it
Edited on Mon Nov-29-04 06:37 PM by Eloriel
Here's how it went down:

DUer IdaBriggs discovered some anomalies in the results. She and DUer hedda_foil, co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project, persuaded Nader to ask for a recount. The "persuasion" involved asking DUers to fax Nader, and Randi Rhodes listeners were exhorted to do the same -- all of which happened in a big rush on a Friday afternoon. Nader was finally persuaded and faxed in his request for a recount within the last 1 minute (literally) before the recount deadline.

And we were off and running.

Hedda subsequently went on to form the new 527 called Help America Recount, specifically for helping fund and direct the recounts, and has been VERY active with everything going on, but not in a role visible to the public or indeed to us here at DU (nor does she have much time to spend here). NV and NM were on the radar and it was announced by the Cobb team today that they're asked for recounts in those states:

BREAKING NEWS: Glibs to Recount NM and NV!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=89572

There is also a brand new coalition for which I just got word this afternoon the website is up and running:

www.AuditTheVote.org

And here are the other two links:

www.helpamericarecount.org

www.ballotintegrity.org/

The main reasons NH was chosen were the anomalies discovered by IdaBriggs AND the fact that NH has a paper ballot independent of the machine vote tabulations. The hope is to expose the machines as too unreliable (fraudulent and/or error-prone) to be used in elections without a voter-verified paper balot (VVPB) -- NOT a paper "record," but a paper BALLOT.

There is no expectation on the part of these non-partisan groups working on this that the election will be overturned, tho I realize some here are holding out hope for that. There's no way to know where this is going, but the likelihood that Kerry will take office on Jan. 20 is slim to none, even IMO if a recount does change the electoral votes.

Edited to add some links for background, etc.:

*****Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org
National Ballot Integrity Project http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843






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wlubin Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because in NH, the exit polls where off by 15%. that is the most
for any state. Also, many counties have a paper trail in that they use that scantron type of voting. So the theory is that fraud could be shown most easily in NH. Once fraud is shown in NH, then the entire election across the country will be brought into question.
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hangloose Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. and "if" the recount finds no discrepancy then the 15% exit poll
variance means what? We can't trust exit polls?
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Deere_John Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If the recount finds no discrepancy then....
Either:

a. Exit polls are so grossly unreliable that they can be off by double digits and everything we've ever been told about them is a lie, or,

b. Someone visited the person supervising the recount and said, "You know, it would be deeply embarrassing for Mr. Bush if there's a big difference between machine counts and hand counts here in NH, and, by the way, those are lovely children, it would be a shame if something happened to them."

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hangloose Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. hummmm......so you expect a telling variance since lots of people
are probably watching this unfold?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. The explanation from Nader was that it was a Kerry state where they wouldn
't have a big hassle from the entrenched SoS ala "Katherine" Blackwell, and that there were notable oddities in exit polls vs unofficial tallies. The logic was to get the ball rolling in a small test case and then open up the can further if worms were found ie. recount the rest of NH and other states.
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FreeCajun Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Brilliant!
Nader knew exactly where to go to get his questions answered. I'm sure he had put a lot of thought into it beforehand...
:toast:
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Not quite. Please read my post upthread
The truth of the matter is that one of hedda's colleagues on the ground in NH has a superb relationship with the SoS and others, tho not the AG who gave them a bunch of hassle.

I have no idea what Nader's thinking was, or the arguments used to persuade him (I know what MY fax to him said), but it was DUers who got this ball rolling -- in particular IdaBriggs and hedda_foil, along with those of us who faxed and Randi Rhodes listeners who faxed him on the last day before the deadline.
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Hobbes199 Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. NH had the 15% exit poll discrepancy
So fraud should be more evident.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. And more votes for Kerry in rural areas than in the cities --
another anomaly.

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