Did anyone listen to Thom Hartmann today?

[SueZhope]

Someone had called in asking about the Ohio vote count. Thom said he felt that perhaps the Kerry people don’t want to fight for the recount because they would not want to win by challenging the situation . He said it would be hard for him to be president for the 80% of the people that feel Bush won fairly would not find his presidency legitimate.

Then he also said something about how he might not want to take on the job since Bush has made such a mess.

If someone else heard this perhaps you can explain what he said since I'm not the best righter. I felt hopeless after hearing his words....I hope it was not as bad as it sounded
to me.

Here is more in his article on Common Dreams
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm

[Ducks In A Row]

1. if it wasn't for the supreme court vacanties coming up

I wouldn't want he to be prez either.

but the court is too important to give up the fight.


I wish kerry would figure that out

[smartvoter]

2. Amen.

[bullimiami]

3. im sorry but if this is true then kerry was a lousy choice.

the least he can do is fight for US. If he does anything else then he can go cheney himself forever.

[SueZhope]

4. part of the article says....

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm
Published Monday, November 29, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
How To Take Back A Stolen Election
by Thom Hartmann

"Here we are again, in 2004, with another dubious election.

And, although evidence of fraud and vote rigging in the 2004 US election is mounting today, there was no widespread mobilization like the ones we encouraged in other nations or saw in Florida in 2000. Thus, it's extremely unlikely national institutions like the mainstream media, Congress, or the Supreme Court will seriously challenge or even expose to the general public the many deficiencies of this election.

Because the Democratic party and progressive activists failed to plan a PR response to election-rigging in Florida and Ohio (among other states), such efforts (and some damning and shocking new revelations) are now being carried in "new media" like the internet by folks like Bev Harris, Greg Palast, and Bob Fitrakis, and in foreign media like New Zealand's "The Scoop", and the BBC."

[Carolab]

5. WTF is he talking about?

FIRST, he has no idea how many, what percentage, of "the people" feel that Bush won fairly.

SECOND, if Kerry didn't want the job then why in hell did he run and tell us all that "hope is on the way"?

I am sick of this negative shit. If these clowns can't say something positive and supportive of our BASIC DEMOCRATIC RIGHT TO VOTE then why don't they just shut the hell up?

[SueZhope]

6. the 80% number he was talking about

came from a poll that was done (I think those people would change there mind if the media would report the REAL news)

When I heard him I was very frustrated because I thought he was still thinking there was hope about this. ....In his article he talks about what to do next for 2006.....

he might talk more on his show tomorrow about it.

[corky44]

7. Tom made the point that Kerry

may be holding back now because of some poll that stated %82
of those polled believed the election was clean. Tom said he
thought Kerry may feel he can't govern with that kind doubt about his legitimacy.

Tom was saying "it's over"

I can't believe that- All we need is one REP
and one Senator.

[neek]

16. People think the election was clean because

the stupid media won't cover the topic. On Hardball the other night (which I happened upon) there was a story about the Ohio recount and afterwards the guy had 2 people discussing the issue BOTH OF WHOM thought that the recount was silly and a waste of time.
WHY IS THE PRESS SO AFRAID OF HAVING SOMEONE TELL WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING????
I think at least 50% of the country (all those who voted for Kerry) would think the election was fixed if they GOT THE INFORMATION.

WHAT IS THIS COUNTRY COMING TOO?? I AM SCARED FOR MY CHILDREN

[SueZhope]

18. Hi neek

I agree with you 100%
I watched that hardball....
I felt SICK....

Thom is on again......
its Dec 3rd......some JERK just called him and said that
if he keeps talking about all this conspiracy stuff no one will listen
the Dem's steal the elections bla bla

Thom said that the Diebold owner & his bother who owns another company
count about 80% of the vote
the Republicans count our vote...this is the facts...
why would this not be told to the people

The media are disgusting sell outs

[onecitizen]

8. I listened off and on

today. Sorry, I didn't catch that part. But I will say, that I thought Kerry was not really wanting to win too badly. Just my opinion though. Whoever takes the job on after bush will have one hell of a mess on their hands. Someone like Dean would jump right in and accept the challenge. Not so sure about Kerry.

[trayfoot]

9. Not so sure about the democratic party anymore!

"Whoever takes the job on after bush will have one hell of a mess on their hands."

EXACTLY! And the longer the criminal is in office, the worse the mess is going to be - maybe so big a mess that nobody can straighten it out! I'm sorry, but I feel that the party to whom I have been loyal for over 3 decades has let me down severely! If they don't understand that the electoral system must be fixed before there is yet ANOTHER stolen election, then this isn't the party for me! If the democratic party and its leadership care so little about electoral honesty, then what the hell do they care about????????

[emcguffie]

10. not wanting to challenge?

That's really dumb. If it turns out that they stole the election -- which we know they did -- but if it can be proven, those 80% won't believe Bush won fair and square anymore.

MOST PEOPLE VOTED FOR KERRY! And they're sick. And most of them believe it was stolen. They just don't think anything can be done.

[truehawk]

11. Circular Logic, they think the election was honest because the media

has not reported that it was stolen.

We have our work cut out for us.

It is not over unless we give up.

[BlackVelvet04]

12. Who cares how people feel?

They might feel differently if the damn media would do their job. Feelings should be based on reality don't ya think?

[SueZhope]

13. YUP

Trouble is the majority of the Bush supporters are not "reality based" remember the PIPA study? http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

We have a media who keeps much of the reality out of the news (selective reality) The average person does not even question that this was stolen....and many of those people still think Bush & Co...are the Moral ones. Perhaps they will have a good wake-up call.

[Ladyhawk]

14. Once again: this is NOT about Kerry.

Honestly, I think he shafted us and has no intention of fighting the system. Therefore, we have to do it. The stink we're raising about election fraud is for the health of our Democracy. (Yeah, I know. It could be argued our Democracy is dead.)

If there is sufficient evidence of election fraud and Kerry doesn't stand up and fight now, it means he doesn't have the necessary backbone to combat the BFEE anyway. Yes, we'll hit the iceberg more quickly with * at the helm, but it was going to happen anyway.

[Casablanca]

21. Exactly. And it isn't as if the Repubs need a mandate ...

... to screw the country, so the Dems shouldn't need a mandate to try to mend it.

Just get a halfway-competent President into the Oval Office, dammit. We'll finesse the plan then.

This is what we get with timid tacticians instead of real statespeople.

[AtLiberty]

15. A request...

Would posters please place dates in their subject heads? "Today" doesn't work when the clock strikes midnight.

Thanks

[SueZhope]

19. OOOPS yes

that would have been a good idea when I posted that
the dates are also on the posts

[Goldeneye]

17. I don't think there is a Kerry supporter anywhere

that wouldn't be relieved if news came out that he won. If something as major as overturning the election were to happen, the media would have to cover it. Fox would be complain complain complain, and the right wing pundits would never shut up, but I think Kerry would at least have the support of the people who voted for him. If the results did overturn, the msm would have to explain to some extent why it was overturned, and I suspect that would be enough for most supporters. People don't know whats going on, thats why so many people polled thought the elections were fair.

[Last Lemming]

20. The Democrat's are up to something

Come on, guys. Listen to the silence. Al Sharpton is saying nothing. . . Michael Moore is wearing a suit. John Kerry never mentioned once during his campaign that he roped and tied the Iran Contra deal. . .

Keep the faith and explain to your friends that we've had a fraudulant election. We've got to get the word out and the only way at the moment is through word of mouth and "internets."

Educate, educate, educate.

[Darknyte7]

24. I think you're right...

Everyone has been WAY quiet for the last month. I've been thinking the same thing for 3 or 4 weeks myself.

[KatieB]

22. He also says the Ukrainians showed what it takes

He points out that the exit poll results were used to overturn corrupted elections and this:
"As generations of activists have taught us, we can't wait around for politicians to fix a corrupted political system. It's going to take - as the Ukrainians are now showing us - involved and active citizens to make this happen, and that requires an organizational framework to cut through the political and media fog."

[bunny planet]

23. 57 million people voted for Kerry, not even counting those who did and

had their votes stolen. If fraud were to be proved and Kerry took office, he would be viewed as legitimate by about 70% of the population. I think that's a good enough mandate to avoid feeling he holds office illegitimately.