If Bush and Cheney are impeached next year will Kerry become President?

[liberal al zib]

Just a thought I had Duers:
If Bush and Cheney get impeached next year over election fraud, will Kerry become President?
It will be great isn’t it? Woohooo.

[WI_DEM]

1. no, unfortunately not the way it works

The Speaker of the House (Hasset) would become President.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. No

If there were impeachment procedings, they would have to be successful before either man was removed from office. Since, theoretically, they wouldn't be impeached at the same time, Shrub would be given time to nominate a VP replacement, much like Nixon did when Agnew resigned.

[mulethree]

14. I was a baby, is there a confirmation process for a VP appointment? n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Yes

as I recall, the President's nomination for VP must have congressional approval.

[IAMREALITY]

3. LOL

Not very up on how America works are ya LOL

NO, LOL, Kerry wouldn't LOL be President LOL

[Cherie59]

4. sadly, no he would not. But we would be opening the champaign.....

if Bush/Cheney get impeached

[forgethell]

20. Better drink it b/4

it turns to vinegar. there ain't gonna be any impeachment!!! And if there were, there wouldn't be a conviction and removal. Not enough votes.

[Inland]

5. No, for that, Kerry has to kill them both in the Ring of Combat

[MatrixEscape]

6. I am wondering ...

just WHO would be impeaching them? Rhetorical, of course.

[greatauntoftriplets]

9. Excellent point.....

since the House and Senate are controlled by Republicans.

[Evening Star]

7. Ummm

If I'm not mistaken it would go to the Speaker of the House who is Dennis Hastert

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. No.

As pleasant a thought as this is, unfortunately the presidential succession goes next to the Speaker of the House (Dennis Hastert, eww!) and then the President Pro Tem of the Senate (I think that's still Orrin Hatch?). After that the succession goes through the Cabinet members, in the order in which the positions were created. I think the first in order is Secretary of State (Condor Lizard). In other words, we'd have to get a whole lot of really awful people impeached and convicted and removed from office before the situation would improve much.

[goclark]

15. Maybe that's why he wants Condi appointed ASAP

[Pirate Smile]

21. He doesn't want Condi appointed ASAP for some reason -

White House Nixed Early Hearing on Rice Nomination
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=4&u=/nm/20041128/pl_nm/bush_cabinet_rice_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - At the urging of the White House, a key Senate panel put off consideration of the nomination of Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) to be secretary of state, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said on Sunday.

Sen. Richard Lugar (news, bio, voting record), an Indiana Republican, said he had suggested "a very early time" for his committee to take up the nomination, which must be approved afterward by the full U.S. Senate.

"The White House suggested that that would not be appropriate -- that is, in December," Lugar said on "Fox News Sunday." "So we'll not be having hearings in December. But we'll have hearings as soon as possible in January."

-snip-
A White House official said, "It was our understanding that the Senate could not have gone through the whole confirmation process in December. We look forward to our nominees going through the confirmation process when the new Congress convenes in January."

[goclark]

25. The WH and Lugar tell so many lies

I will never believe that Bush doesn't want Colin out and Condi in right now.

There must be another mean reason for the wait.

Maybe she is still recuperating from her let's move along "minor" surgery that may take more than six weeks.

[Evening Star]

10. Presidential Succession

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_succession.htm

The line of succession is currently:

Vice President
Speaker of the House
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury
Secretary of Defense
Attorney General
Secretary of the Interior
Secretary of Agriculture
Secretary of Commerce
Secretary of Labor
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation
Secretary of Energy
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Tomorrow --- House Resolution 2319
Introduced into the 108th Congress in June 2003, H.R. 2319 (PDF version) would make several changes to Presidential succession:
Includes the Secretary of Homeland Security in the line of presidential succession after the Attorney General.
Modifies succession requirements relating to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore to specify, instead, persons holding the office of Speaker or President pro tempore at the time of the need for the succession.
Provides that an individual acting as President shall continue to do so until the expiration of the then current Presidential term (as under current law), or until the individual's earlier death, resignation, removal from office, or inability, unless the individual's discharge of the powers and duties of the office is founded in whole or in part on the inability of the President or Vice President, in which case the individual shall act only until the removal of the President's or Vice President's disability.
Exempts an acting President from automatic resignation of his or her current office if such person's service as acting President is based in whole or in part on the temporary incapacity of the President or Vice President.
Removes acting cabinet officers from the line of presidential succession.
One of the scenarios the bill is trying to address is:
A terrorist attack wipes out the seat of government. The president, vice president, representatives and senators are all dead - except for a group of six freshmen House members who were in the Congo on a humanitarian mission.
Under current law, these six lawmakers could return to Washington, select one of them as the new House speaker and that person could become the acting president instead of the Secretary of State who would otherwise be next in line.



The bill is making its way through committees. You can view its current status here.
Question for readers: I once read an apocalyptic novel, now forgotten, which referred to a Presidential succession list having hundreds of names on it. The list supposedly reached down into the ranks of minor government officials. If such a list exists, it's not clear to me that it has any legal standing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Looks like we'd have get to Transportation to get anybody acceptable.

I don't think Norman Mineta has been replaced yet, and he's a Democrat.

[On the Road]

11. Impeachment Wouldn't Do It

The election would have to be invalidated.

There are no precedents on the presidential level -- maybe there are for congressional races. I don't know if there's anything in the constitution or federal law on overturning an election because of fraud. But there are certainly precedents at the state and local level and in other countries.

[Radical Activist]

13. We'd have to uncover fraud before the electoral college meets

or before the House votes to approve the election results. That's why protests at inauguration are a day late and a dollar short.

[Woo]

18. This is the Constitutional Crisis bit...

If they find election fraud -- I mean prove it outright -- do you think that *any* Republican could govern effectively ... do you think impeachment will suffice-- well if it is up to me, not in my country -- the word(s) is civil unrest people. I don't care how it's worked before -- the Republicans have stretched our constitution to its limit and if that *thing* is inaugurated in Jan, then proven to have commited fraud to get re-elected ... it's no holds barred.

On Thanksgiving as the family sat around the table -- the election came up and it became quite heated -- my family isn't very political but what sent everyone home was when my Uncle Roy stood up and said... 'I've got something for em if they come to my house... they might get me, but the first two through the door, their ass is mine'

Think about it -- in a not very political household -- people are that upset now(that's ONE house) -- and it takes just one person in that house-- I can almost bet you there are tens of thousands of people sitting at their dinner table talking the same way.

They can try to put the Speaker of the House up there if they want... I know it isn't gonna work -- the only way I see out of this, if Bush is inaugurated then found guilty ... is either civil war or an emergency amendment to the Constitution. I fear we might see both which is why we have to stop this before Jan.

[LiberalAndProud]

16. It would be helpful to look to history here, don't you think?

Spiro Agnew Resigns
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAagnew.htm
Agnew was re-elected as vice-president in 1972 but the following year it was announced he was being investigated for extortion, bribery and income-tax violations while governor of Maryland. On 10th October, 1973 resigned as vice-president. Found guilty of incorrectly filling in his income-tax returns, Agnew was fined $10,000 and sentenced to three years probation

Gerald Ford appointed by Nixon as V.P. confirmed by the Senate.
After Vice President Spiro Agnew resigned during Richard Nixon 's presidency, on October 10 , 1973 , Nixon appointed Ford to take Agnew's place. The United States Senate voted 92 to 3 to confirm Ford on November 27 , 1973 and on December 6 , the House confirmed him 387 to 35.

Richard Nixon, threatened with impeachment, resigns.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/impeach.html
After five men hired by Nixon's reelection committee were caught burglarizing Democratic party headquarters at the Watergate Complex on June 17, 1972, President Nixon's subsequent behavior—his cover-up of the burglary and refusal to turn over evidence—led the House Judiciary Committee to issue three articles of impeachment on July 30, 1974. The document also indicted Nixon for illegal wiretapping, misuse of the CIA, perjury, bribery, obstruction of justice, and other abuses of executive power. "In all of this," the Articles of Impeachment summarize, "Richard M. Nixon has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as president and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States." Impeachment appeared inevitable, and Nixon resigned on Aug. 9, 1974. The Articles of Impeachment, which can be viewed at http://watergate.info/, leave no doubt that these charges qualify as "high crimes and misdemeanors," justifying impeachment.

Gerald Ford assumes Presidency
On August 9, following Richard Nixon's resignation, Gerald Ford escorted him out of the White House. "That was very sad because of our long personal friendship with Dick and Pat," Ford said. "That's a sad situation when you see a couple that had been good friends who leaving under those very tragic circumstances."
And then Ford turned and went back inside the White House, which was his White House now.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gf38.html
When Gerald R. Ford took the oath of office on August 9, 1974, he declared, "I assume the Presidency under extraordinary circumstances.... This is an hour of history that troubles our minds and hurts our hearts."

[SharonRB]

19. None of the relate to overturning an election

The current case is completely different than all of the precedents -- there is not precedent that I am aware of. These examples all have to do with a sitting president or vice president being impeached or resigning. For those situations, the Constitution is clear and there is a set procedure. In this case, if the election were to be ruled fraudulent prior to Shrub's inauguration in January, I'm really not sure what would happen. I don't know if there's anything in the Constitution that would deal with this type of situation. If there were to be a recount in all or some states that changed the outcome, then Kerry would be president (we can only hope!!!). If there's fraud proven, but there's no way to verify the correct results, I'm not sure what would be done. Does anyone know if we'd have to hold another election?

[LiberalAndProud]

24. But the original question is about impeachment.

- These examples all have to do with a sitting president or vice president being impeached or resigning. For those situations, the Constitution is clear and there is a set procedure. -

The Constitution is clear. If we were to prove a fraudulent election before the second inauguration, the path would be less clear, but the timeline seems a huge barrier.

[Stand and Fight]

22. Unclear... But clear.

What we would do? I think if fraud was found it would throw the country into a Constitutional crisis. You cannot relate such a situation as the one proposed to any historical event -- not Nixon and Ford or even the Constitution. No where in the Constitution is there a provision for what happens in the case of fraud being found to have occurred after a federal election. I don't think even the Republicans would be ballsy enough to try to put one of their own in office after such a thing as this was uncovered. I think the government would freeze because not only would the presidential election be in question, so would Senate and House elections going all the way back to 2002. (Think Max Cleland.) I do feel that the only viable solution -- that is assuming that fraud was discovered to have been the reason Kerry lost -- would be for Kerry to be the 44th President of the United States. I don't think we -- especially a lot of the people here on DU -- would dare to accept anything else. That's the common sense approach, but you know what? Common sense is not so common.

[Shalom]

23. IF FRAUD MAKES BUSHITLER RESIGN NOW, THEN ??

What happens if we prove the election was a fraud, and Bushitler resigns immediately, making Big Dick Chicanery the POTUS before inauguration ?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. DICK is then the president.

He appoints Jeb Bush as Vice President, then steps down before his ticker gives out. Jeb then appoints Dr. Frist-Mengele Vice President. Or something similarly awful happens.

[jamboi]

27. We'd need both Bush & Cheney to resign & to vacate their "win". And then

we'd still need to have some kind of process to end up w/ the general understanding that Kerry won. Otherwise its speaker of the House Hastert. Basically it gets really speculative.

[malatesta1137]

28. this has GOT to be the dumbest question today on DU

Bush will NEVER be impeached, NEVER.

Impeachement starts in the House, which is contolled by Repugs, whose leader is the most criminal member that place has ever seen, Tom Delay.