Initial NH Recount Results Show Little Change

[righteous1]

The results are trickling in on the nations first ballot recount of the 2004 presidential election which commenced on November 18 in New Hampshire. John Kerry for one, will probably not sit bolt upright that three extra votes were found for him thus far....(snip) If the results from the (2) completed wards are mirrored in the remaining targeted ones (another 9 out of 126 statewide) it may reassure the most skeptical among us that Diebold's much criticized optical scanning machines (35% of the votes nationally are now opscan counted) do a surprisingly good job of reading hand-marked ballots. read entire article @ http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041206&s=baker

[glitch]

1. Well, it certainly may reassure me about the NH count.

Assuming this recount was completely manual and not just refeeding the ballots through the machines.

[righteous1]

3. The Nation

Is a pretty liberal pub, anyone know anything about the author Russ Baker?

[righteous1]

2. link:http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041206&s=baker

[papau]

4. Correct link below-snippet implied all 126 ward recount - actually only 11

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041206&s=baker

ONLY two precincts , or "wards," out of 126, have official recounts posted per the article (and only 3 in total are called done as of today!)

another nine out of 126 total statewide have been paid for - and will be done beginning next Monday.

And I agree with Baker that the result - whatever it is - will help point either to the fraud - or rule out several methods of fraud

And I agree with Baker that if it is "rule out several methods of fraud" with few votes changed, then the media will claim a clean election - wrongly in my opinion - but that will be the result.

[righteous1]

5. So this Baker

is a pretty straight shooter?

[papau]

8. Based on what I know of him from his writings-Yes-he is a straight shooter

I think I met him only once - and had no conversation (but then it may have been his Dad - Baker is a name that is in my memory - but my memory sucks!) Indeed if it is a father/son career line, I no doubt have them combined in my memory!

Be that as it may, nothing under the Baker byline sticks in my memory as GOP mediawhore like.

[nashville_brook]

6. i remember reading that these two counties

were electronic machine and they were really concerned with optical machines in NH -- so it was good that the e-machine were checked first as a control group.

i can't find the thread. i couldn't have dreamed this.

[righteous1]

7. if you remember the article please post itt n/t

[masshole1979]

14. the two precincts (not counties) counted were among the screwy

manchester and litchfield, and both were expected to go for kerry

Also, the entire state uses paper ballots. The sense in which these are evotes is that they are counted by optical scanner. Ida Briggs specifically focused the recount on precincts that were using Diebold.

[IndyOp]

23. According to VerifiedVoting.org both Manchester & Litchfield

...use Precinct-Based Diebold Accuvote Optical Scan machines. The entire state does use voting methods that leave a paper trail - opscan ballots counted by machine or paper ballots counted by hand. All counties except two in New Hampshire use a mix of (1) paper ballots counted by hand; (2) Diebold Optical Scan machines; and (3) ES&S Optical Scan machines. Ida and Ralph haven't gotten to any of the ES&S wards yet...

Even if the 11 wards initially selected don't show any evidence of error I hope they count the entire state. Even if New Hampshire comes up clean, I hope they recount Florida, Ohio, North Carolina and New Mexico -- at a minimum.

We gotta know... :hippie:

[Zan_of_Texas]

38. could we please be consistent on how we refer to voting methods

Here is how we have been referring to methods since nearly two years ago. Now is not the time to muddy the waters so we don't know what we're referring to.

Types of voting methods/machines:

Levers

Punch Cards (this is how we learned the term "chad")

Paper Only (counted by humans)

Optical Scan (some call this mark sense). Optical scan is a paper ballot, with an oval marked by pen or pencil, read into a machine and counted by optically scanning it. (Used by 35 to 40% of voters)

Electronic Voting Machine, or DRE. A subset of this would be touchscreen machines. Some call this e-voting. (Used by about 30% of voters) Currently designed with no paper confirmation, and no ability to meaningfully recount (except in Nevada, which just implemented the paper confirmation).

To call optical scan "paper" or to call it "evoting" may be sort of accurate, because it has elements of each, but it is confusing. Please call it optical scan. Okay?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. How can it rule out fraud when....

this is a machine recount? I'm waiting for the WA hand recount before start yelling that the machines can't count. And doesn't ANY change in the results - whether 3 votes or 300 show that the machines are not perfect?

[indigoblue]

10. Are there pollbooks in NH to verify?

I am very concerned that if additional fake ballots were added to the count at the end, the recount of those ballots won't show any difference. The number of actual votes need to be compared with the number of voters who showed up at the polls.

A few articles I saw at DU made me very suspicious.

http://www.votefraud.org/how_a_private_company_counts_our_votes.htm

"In the press room in the back I noticed stacks of boxes containing "Votamatic" voting machines and "pre-punched" ballots printed by ES&S of Addison, Texas, for the different precincts in Cook County. In the rear hallway behind the press room was the ES&S room. Only ES&S personnel were allowed into the room."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/11/17/143318/03/17#17

"When the poll watcher flipped open the (poll)books, she saw that lots of people had been allowed to vote but had not signed the books. This struck her as very odd, of course, since by law people have to sign in to verify that they are authorized to vote."

[Jasper 91]

13. They have had to much time to cover their tracks.

They haven't been idly sitting by while we have been ammassing evidence. I am sure they have been adding Bush ballots and removing Kerry ones where necessary, and generally burying all accountable evidence as they see fit.

This is precisely why paper ballots, marked with a pen and counted by hand must be used for Presidential Elections as counting right in the first place should be a priority. Recounts don't always happen, are not usually widespread when they do, then they are often too late to fully count the votes and, in this case, are probably too late to unearth the fraud.

[Hobbes199]

11. Will the WA hand recount include Pres?

I had assumed it wouldn't, like NC.

[righteous1]

12. Most likely not n/t

[masshole1979]

15. Is this a machine recount? Link?

[Eric J in MN]

17. handcount NT

NT

[John Q. Citizen]

21. These are hand recounts being done in NH, not machine recounts

If you read the article you will get the information.

[masshole1979]

16. The alleged republican get out the vote drive

...was certainly not very visible. The other volunteers at ACT kept commenting on how they never saw many Republican canvassers.

Of course, they did hit churches, but it was nothing on the scale of our GOTV.

Really, the margin should have been a lot larger. If it turns out there wasn't fraud, we need to examine the situation closely to understand what went wrong. This is the kind of non-patting-yourself-on-the-back stuff that the Dems and the Left always slip up on. But really, if a GOTV of the magnitude in NH only produces a shift of a tiny fraction of a percent, we need to take a new tack.

[Eric J in MN]

18. 100 more votes in machine-count than hand-count

Nonetheless, when the counters return after Thanksgiving, they'll still have some technical problems to resolve. The hand count of a third precinct showed roughly 100 fewer presidential votes than the optical-scan machines had, and will likely have to be recounted yet again. And in a fourth one, a local Republican candidate being recounted was awarded 105 more votes than he had before. Was the problem Diebold or somebody in the counting room? The answer will soon be clear.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041206&c=2&s=baker

[IndyOp]

25. Thanks for this...

I am embarrassed to admit that I didn't even click to see the second page -- and it was worth reading! :)

[flamin blue state]

42. You mean that he gained votes when counted by hand?

I think you twisted it up.

[Leilani]

19. Very interesting article & makes 1 important point:

According to Dems in New Hampshire, the Republicans had a BETTER get-out-the-vote effort.

I've read about this in various places, & when I have posted about this issue, I have been roundly criticized, & told I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying this issue was in any way decisive in all cases, but it's something to be considered.

[masshole1979]

20. link to info about repig gotv?

[BushSpeak]

22. Don't overlook the 96,000 same day voter registrations

Just found this interesting info that may throw a new light onto the recounts. It would be easier to register large numbers in urban areas like those that are recounting.

I'll mail Nader but if someone has direct access it might go faster.

Since the preliminary results show no difference, it would be interesting to investigate the addresses of the new voters. The optical scanners might have been a smoke screen.


Campaign 2004 - Swing-State Election Results by BOB BURNETT
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/article.cfm?issue=11-23-04&storyID=20155

New Hampshire: Kerry was projected to win by 10.8 percent and actually won by 1.3 percent, 9,274 votes. Bush narrowly won New Hampshire in 2000, but this time Democrats expected to win as they had conducted an aggressive registration drive. However, New Hampshire permitted same day voter registration and there were 96,000 registrations on Nov. 2, about 15 percent of the turnout; Democrats accused Republicans of taking advantage of the rules and bringing in questionable new voters. It’s not clear how these voters were profiled by party registration but exit polls indicated that 44 percent of voters said there were Independent, 32 percent Republican, and 25 percent Democrat—fewer Democrats than were expected.

[IndyOp]

24. The presence of many same day registrants doesn't account for

disparity between exit polls and tabulated votes when even the exit polls indicated that there more Republicans than Democrats... right?

Kerry was projected (by exit polls) to win by 10.8 percent and actually won by 1.3 percent... exit polls indicated that 44 percent of voters said there were Independent, 32 percent Republican, and 25 percent Democrat—fewer Democrats than were expected.

:eyes:

[BushSpeak]

27. Depends on where the exit polls were done

In the same counties and weighted for the extra turnout?

Since the exit poll services are asking a fortune for the individual precinct data that would be hard to check out.

All I'm saying is that when there is such a freak difference, all possibilities should be checked out.

[IndyOp]

28. All possibilities should be checked out...

Absolutely. Now to get down to brass tacks: There are only two possibilities to check out -- the exit polls and the vote count. They won't let us have the exit polls, so the only option is to audit/recount/contest the vote. Lots of explanations about why the exit polls might be the culprit are reasonable but we can't get the original polling data to test them. So, validate the vote!

:kick:

[keepthemhonest]

43. welcome newbie n/t

[newyawker99]

29. Hi BushSpeaks!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[flamin blue state]

44. I don't like same day registration

It allows too many frauds to take place. I have seen it first hand. Bottles being thrown at volunteers, and being cussed. It is very disturbing.

[consciousobjector]

26. Everyone seems to be missing the good part...

In the article Russ Baker gives a nice rational spin to the recount efforts:
"But even if Diebold receives a passing mark, the Concord recount, perhaps the first of several in statehouses nationwide (all-important election-decider Ohio may be reviewed in December), could by no means be considered a waste of time and resources. Irrespective of the outcome, the exercise itself teaches us important things about the benefits of openness in the pursuit of functioning democracy. It reveals a lot about what's good about our voting system--and offers hints of what needs to be fixed, which is plenty."

We need more commentators to stress this. The SS Blackwell and crew are trying to stop the Ohio recount because it is "costly and frivolous". The pointy headed Hyman from the Sinclair Broadcast group is putting editorials on local news calling Cobb and the rest of us "elitists wasting tax payer dollars"...This recount effort could die if the MSM doesn't change their tune.

A little off topic, but Jesse Jackson is scheduled to have a rally in Columbus, OH on Sunday to call for an investigation of voter irregularities. Certainly that will get some MSM coverage!

[Imagevision]

34. New Hampshire Recounts & Diebold?

I doubt seriously that the "Diebold precincts" are getting counted first.

It would be advantageous for the precincts to recount all non-Diebold equipped voting stations first coming up with no differences -- I expect all precincts using Diebold to show problems..thats why Blackwell is uptight about recounting Ohio...we all know the proverbial sh*t will hit the fan when this happens.

[MarcelP]

30. Technicians in NH wards?

Might be a good idea, if Nadar/Briggs decide to recount more wards than the original 11, to see if they can find any wards that had lock downs or where a "technician" had access to vote-counting machines within a day or two of the election. If they are not going to recount the whole state, then they need to make sure they pick the right wards for discovering error/election fraud. I hope they find something within the original 11! But unless they recount more than 11, they'll never be sure whether they missed something. By the way, what is the procedure for guarding ballots? How do we know that the ballots aren't being tampered with in the 27 days between Nov. 2 and Nov. 29? Do you think someone will pass this point about the technicians along to Ida Briggs--or I suppose she's already considered it?

[geo]

31. and look for poll tapes in trash cans...

maybe we should look to Volusia on how they try to cover up vote tampering. It could be that the "books are cooked" well before Mr. Nader goes for the recount. Recounting bad data still gets you the tainted results. - G

[progressoid]

32. Even if the vote doesn't change much, it doesn't rule out fraud elsewhere

This recount completely ignores the "Black Box" touch screen voting of 29% of the US. And lets not forget all of the other tricks used.

I hope the media doesn't say it vindicates the voting system. Of course rush and hannity and the rest of the freeped world would use it as the gold standard.

[sharman]

33. Wish someone would canvass a precinct

or two. IMO, that's the only way to get a real handle on (1) whether there was fraud and (2) if no fraud, why our own GOTV projections were so off.

Take the list of signed-in voters, and call them. Dozens of different GOTV groups called those voters repeatedly before the election, why not call them one more time?

[trudyco]

39. I agree

Why not pick a precinct in NH, one in Florida, one in Ohio (maybe NM and NV) and canvass. If it looks promising then hold an unofficial revote.

After all, they may have stuffed the ballots. Although in this case it sounds like the republican GOTV was strong (NH), I know in my part of CO my registered republican counterpart got recorded messages to vote whereas I the registered democrat got real people for absentee ballots information, early voting information, and on election day (asking me if I needed a ride LOL). I didn't see any targeted marketing or strong GOTV from the republicans.
Trudyco

[Imagevision]

35. Too early to tell yet -- How long did it take to expose Watergate?

I like many of you have been doing some research/reading since this voter-fraud thing hit the Net and the DU.

An investigative reporter's job is to ask; "who-when what why where" John Dean has said that this voter-fraud we're experienicing is bigger then Watergate itself.

Think of the players, Bush Cheney Rove Jeb Bush plus the pee-ons in the shadows..can you imagine Bush having to appear before an independant invsetigation panel trying to answer questions without Cheney, Bush I believe will have to appear solo this time and the house of cards will come falling down.

Its guys like Blackwell who is drawing heat to himself by trying to block the recounts..it's just a matter of time and the way Kerry sets this up? -- Quoting George Tenet?..."it's a slamdunk"

[Straight Shooter]

36. "Pee-ons"?

}(

LOL.

[senegal1]

37. kick

[EMunster]

40. This post is old and premature....more hopeful news over at kos....

link --
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/29/112731/31

[flamin blue state]

41. We were robbed,

They just didn't steal hard enough in NH to take the state. This was a blue state by 10 points!

[understandinglife]

47. They gave it their best shot...

...as evidenced by a 'red shift' of 4.9!

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00270.htm

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[keepthemhonest]

45. I was hoping we would find fraud there

we'll see when all the recounts are done.

[Live Free Or Diebold]

46. One precinct shows 100 "phantom" Presidential votes in the machine count!

They've only officially posted the counts for the two precincts that match the original totals. But they've actually counted at least four precincts - the reason they haven't posted the numbers for those is that the counts don't match the total returned by the opscanner machine, and they need to count them again to be sure.

So we may very well find fraud in New Hampshire.

Have you seen this diary on Kos yet?

[Jersey Devil]

48. Promising, but Nader isn't going to say anything until he sees a lot more

and who could blame him? If these "anomolies" start sprouting up like bean sprouts in a Canal Street Chinese restaurant basement I'm sure Ralph will start talking.

[Live Free Or Diebold]

49. Well, the recounts are starting again today...

...after the long holiday break.

But 2 bad counts in 4 precincts - and both discrepancies off by 100 votes or more - sure is something. These aren't large wards that they're counting.

Hopefully we'll know the truth about what's going on here soon.

[keepthemhonest]

50. ok thanks for the article

it is so hard to keep up with everything going on around here.so how many counties in NH? multiply by 100.