Wake-up call, DU

[malatesta1137]

It worries me that some DUers soon will start behaving like those Japanese soldiers stranded on a deserted island who, 60 years later, still think WWII is going on.

Some of the threads I read here would be laughable if there weren't so sad. Some swear Kerry will be inaugurated Jan 20, others ramble about strange exit polls, massive vote fraud, electronic rigging, etc.

Aimlessly. We all know this was another stolen election, but NOTHING will happen. Bush will serve his 2nd term FULLY. He has Congress, the media and the Supreme Court on his side, Bush would never EVER let the Presidency go for ANY reason whatsoever.

There was fraud in 2000, there was fraud on 9/11, there was fraud in the process that took us to war in Iraq. Bush was corrupt enough to resist all these and the same will hold truth for 2004. He will invade Iran and Syria before 2006.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Earth]

3. ^LOL

thank you, what i was going to say was worse

[malatesta1137]

12. calling me names

won't make the delusion of Kerry taking office on Jan 20 real.

[malatesta1137]

4. when you can't argue

name calling is the only thing left.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

24. No, I argued first.

Then I called you a name.

NGU.

[Straight Shooter]

32. when you can't or won't fight for truth (or for your side like Repubs do)

rolling over is the only thing left

[Razorback_Democrat]

51. You are entitled to your opinion....

but don't castigate others for having their opinions and hopes too.

You are so negative sounding about anything changing.

Bush will likely take office.

But electoral change is possible, especially if fraud, or gross irregularities are proven.

There is still the possibility that Bush won't be inaugerated.

Don't be such a downer.

[liberal al zib]

76. Don't be such a downer

Yeeehhhh

[Joe Chi Minh]

107. If I may say so,

Razorback_Democrat, you are too diffident with your rebuttal. So, after all is a child entitled to its own opinion, but its voice will not normally to be heard/taken seriously in the councils of adults - in a sane household, anyway. There are too many neocon sprogs crawling around on the carpet, giving us the benefit of their gurglings.

[malatesta1137]

56. Senator Kerry was the first

to roll over, so go complain with him, not me.

[New Earth]

57. Kerry did not roll over at all

You'll see.

[malatesta1137]

68. I won't see a DAMN thing

all I had to see was Kerry conceding hours after the election, some counting was still being done. He rolled over and played dead. Sorry.

[New Earth]

74. well no one can convince you otherwise

and you obviously aren't convincing anyone else to agree with you, so why do you keep posting and trying to keep this argument up? if you don't have any hope there is nothing anyone can do for you. Hope comes from within, and if you can't find it that is no one's problem but your own. I think everyone needs to let this thread drop.

[havocmom]

2. life can take everything from you but your integrity

That, you have to give up yourself.

I'll keep mine, thank you very much.

[righteous1]

5. Agreed

Fight....but fight the good fight. If you believe you have to be a criminal to get your way, move to Russia, they believe that there too

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[righteous1]

17. Beatles

You say you want a revoluuuuutionnnn, weeeeell you know you can count me out

[countmyvote4real]

19. Someone posted some insights about name calling...

hmmmm

[KittyWampus]

38. Let's See You've Called Those Investigating Fraud Losers & Delusional

and then had the audacity to complain about name calling?

Take your negativity back from whence it came, Thou Demon.
BEGONE, in the name of Democracy!

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal al zib]

75. Oh Please wake up

[Danocrat]

6. It's not over 'til Cheney reads the votes in Jan.

Anything could happen

[ewagner]

7. Thanks for your opinion

I am worried that false hopes are being created. I would love to see the Ohio results reversed but realistically I know it's a long, long shot... I'm sure there was fraud; I'm sure there was voter suppression; I'm sure there was manipulation...but proving it is a whole different thing.

and...

there's that little matter of a constitutional crisis to consider...not only will repubs push it to the limit, our "statesmen" of the Democratic party won't allow it to happen.

That being said, we need to count every vote no matter where the results fall. We need to FIX the electronic voting problems. We need to pass laws reforming the process. All that needs to be done just to restore confidence in the system.

[deutsey]

8. I support the recount efforts, but frankly

I'm putting much more of my time and energy into grassroots organizing that addresses immediate, urgent needs being neglected by our political establishment.

For instance, I'm involved in efforts to thwart Bush's militarism and I'm trying to do what I can to help people who are suffering under Bush's "compassionate conservative" economic policies.

That being said, we really do need to fight like hell to reform the elections process in this country, or else the grassroots stuff I'm doing will have no influence over this corrupt political process.

[shuffnew]

15. Absolutely!

If we can't get the voter/election fraud corrected in this many years, then democracy is at high risk!

How our elected officials on the hill have allowed this election fraud process to go on for this many years is not acceptable and there is no EXCUSE! So, you are right... that is something everyone must focus on immediately or our basic right to vote and be counted is down the tubes and the lunatics will continue down the path of destruction of justice and freedom in our country... ripping up our US Constitution and founding documents beyond repair.

The right-wing nuts want to demoralize and hope we go away! NOT ME!
WE MUST KEEP KICKING!

:kick:

[Dhalgren]

10. What we have to have is a revolution.

Sooner or later, everyone who believes in the Constitution, in fairness, in equality, in justice is going to have to come to the same conclusion - revolution. The sooner we come to grips with this the better.

[BlackVelvet04]

108. Dhalgren, as in Virginia? n/t

[Kathy in Cambridge]

11. Even if Kerry legitimately wins, Bush will never cede power

In Ohio, Blackwell must certify the vote and any argument will go to the Republican-dominated state court. And we know what will happen if it ever makes it to the Supreme court. Plus the media will never cover it-we're lucky we have Olbermann, but he's the only one giving air time to election irregularities.

I have no hope that we'll be in the White House on January 20th. The only hope that I do have is that all the fraud that's revealed may change our election process.

[ClassWarrior]

34. That's exactly how we should all be going into this.

Witht the hope that all the fraud that's revealed will change our election process. And that more of the American people will begin to see the criminal Bush** mis-administration for what it is.

And if - by some remote, but not impossible, chance - Kerry is declared the winner... BONUS.

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

59. 2000 was exposed and Americans didn't do a thing

worse, they gave Bush more power in 2002 and 2004. Let's stop dreaming.

[VivaKerry]

13. That's right... if YOU don't do anything, nothing will happen

in re to the fraud elections.

You are completely right.

[goclark]

39. We will have to double our efforts

because some wimp out and don't even try to seek justice.


Let's March!

[Marnieworld]

14. Well then why don't we all just kill ourselves?

Why fight? Why care? Why think? We will never win, there is no use trying.

Let's all just give up on America, democracy, freedom. You know cancer and Aids are very powerful. Let's stop trying to find a cure. Why with that attitude slavery would still be in effect inthe south. Why bother fighting that right? It's too hard. Or women having the right to vote? That was such an easy battle against power that wasn't entrenched. Not.

Let's all just put our heads in the sand, tune out anything beyond our small little circle of people and try to forget that the bad men are in charge.

Or should we try to save democracy by surrendering it to criminality? That is what you are suggesting. It's illogical.

History is filled with movements of great social and political change. The American revolutionaries were outnumbered and taking on an empire but freedom eventually won. This is a democratic experiment. All that is happening right now is a test of the system. The system is set up so corruption can be fought and conquered. It just takes time.

If you can't fight anymore then go away but don't tell people working hard to save their country that they are wasting their time. It's the only thing worth fighting for.

[New Earth]

20. what the hell is wrong people

if Kerry wins, Bush has NO CHOICE but to step down!!! His legal power would end on January 20th and he would have no choice.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. Don't be so sure. Bush's legal team and the Supreme Court

will probably find legal loopholes to discount provisional and absentee ballots.

[New Earth]

27. i have a weird feeling

that we have a much stronger team than in 2000.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. The Republicans have control of the House, Senate, Judiciary, and

administrative positions in Ohio. As strong as this team is, they don't stand a chance. I hate to be a pessimist, but these Repukes are the most ruthless gang of thugs since the Bolsheviks and the Nazis.

[ClassWarrior]

35. Don't fool yourself. It WILL get ugly.

But we're up to the task. I, for one, am ready to fight for my country.

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

62. lol

[malatesta1137]

71. lol

[Sinti]

18. Suggestion?

Given your conclusions, what positive action are you suggesting we should take? Giving negative messages like that without some sort of solution serves no purpose other than to depress, and none of us need any more depression than we have already.

[classof56]

28. Good response. Welcome to DU.

And congrats on the gold star. Lately, DU has been the place where I can go to find some refuge in midst of all the insanity in our once-great country.

Fight on!

[danostuporstar]

29. malatesta1137 did provide a suggestion...

stoop to their level...crime.

[IAMREALITY]

54. It is a sign of COWARDICE, Sinti

The post is just one big sign of being a coward. Taking the easy way out. Being Weak. To offer solutions one must be strong.

Good post, and Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[malatesta1137]

66. exactly, just like Kerry did

he took the easy way out. In fact, he has brains and knows when a battle is lost and the fight should be fought a different way.

But now the delusion of some DUers is just giving Republicans more power.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malatesta1137]

65. Being realistic is not being negative.

I honestly think that Americans are not willing to change, the stupidity is too wide spread.

My suggestion has always been a general strike, but that would never work, American's priority has always been money and security, not principle.

A revolution? That would be even more unlikely, Americans are afraid of the government, they are actually afraid of everything, we are good at dropping bombs from 3,000 ft but too cowardly and weak to fight a real fight on the ground. When we do, we lose (Vietnam, Iraq)

What leaves us with very little left to do, exposing them as thieves, signing petitions, marching, what in fact make Republicans laugh at us even louder.

[txindy]

21. You're really invested in this idea of convincing us to give up

I wonder why?

We're not giving up. Not now. Not ever.

[benburch]

22. Well, aren't you just a fucking ray of sunshine?

Take your pessimism someplace where people have stopped caring.

We don't want it here.

[Horse with no Name]

87. Thanks for the chuckle

:bounce:

[On the Road]

23. There's Another Six Weeks

Unprecedented things happen all the time. The recount efforts need conviction to continue.

I understand what you're saying about unrealistic expectations. If the vote is finalized and Bush is inaugurated, then it will be time to move on.

And even then the drama isn't over. It's still worth pounding the table. Proof of fraud can cripple a Bush second term just like it did with Nixon.

[liberal al zib]

80. Ribofunk

Ribofunk, ribofunk, ribofunk.

[On the Road]

89. Yes?

Does that handle have a special significance for you?

[liberal al zib]

90. Take it

easy.

[On the Road]

91. Oh, I Didn't Mean to be Harsh

Just didn't understand the post. I've been using that handle since the late 80s, when I saw it in "The Happy Mutant's Guide to Life." Been thinking of discarding it in favor of my real name, but what's the internet without goofy handles?

[Trajan]

26. Some threads here would be laughable, if there (sic) werent so sad ...

Self-referential commentary ....

Guess what ? ... DU is a cross section of humanity ...

Humanity is one crazy bunch of human beings ...

Therefore, Ergo: DU is one crazy bunch of human beings ...

And here YOU are .... imagine that ? ......

You gotta love these 'condemn the rabble' pieces by the holy pontiffs among us ....

It isnt 'US vs. Them' ... it is ME versus YOU and THEM ....

How silly is that ? ....

[Cadence]

98. Exactly! I agree. Here. Here.

And good use of the word pontiffs btw.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tripmann]

31. Cheers for the gargantuan effort on your part for the cause...

If you're truly a Dem then stand and fight instead of sending defeatist posts like the one you have submitted. There boards are monitored by repugs, do you think we need them reading 'bend over and take it' posts?? Maybe Bush will serve a second term, maybe he won't. Maybe we won't make a diference, maybe we're the only thing that can. Its the fight that's important, and being able to tell whats left of the world after another 4 years that we did our best is important as well.

On the other hand if you're a freeper, you know where you can stick your head and disappear.

Tripmann.

[ClassWarrior]

36. Nicely said.

"Maybe we won't make a diference, maybe we're the only thing that can."

NGU.

[Stand and Fight]

47. WE THE PEOPLE

Remember, "We the People"?

I could not have said it better myself, hence you have mentioned my name-sake. What are we if we allow this to transpire just because the odds are against us? There is such a thing as precedent, and I know we need to FIGHT LIKE HELL against the Bush regime. It does not matter that he has the dammed House and Senate and Supreme Court and Media. The connotations of power that come with the phrase, "We the People" outweigh all dribble about Bush having the odds in his favor. Never forget this -- that bastard, that insidious fool, works for us, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I refuse to sit idly by and watch my country stolen out from under me. Can't you see that this is not about simply overturning an election? We are fighting for the very SOUL of our country. These nefarious ghouls must be stopped at any and all costs, and no matter what there numbers may be, we must remember that WE THE PEOPLE have far greater numbers. And there is strength in numbers -- they cannot summon enough jack boots to put down the furious rage of a people fighting for truth. We must march. We must trumpet the truth, speak the truth, and throw it in the face of the corporate media, the right wing fools, and this corrupt visceral Bush administration. WE MUST NOT SURRENDER IN PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY! A defeatist attitude accomplishes nothing. To quote the movie "Highlander," "I have something to say. It's better to burn out than to fade away!!"

[glitch]

60. Belated welcome to DU - we need you here! nt

[malatesta1137]

67. if Repugs are reading this, fine by me

I called them thieves and corrupt. I rest my case.

[RedOnce]

37. Not hopeless

I don't think I would call Kerry taking office a delusion, in theory it's possible but it's clearly a long shot. In any case the outcome will be known soon.

In spite of this, progress is being made. The Voter fraud story is beginning to break into mainstream news. A recount is going on in New Hampshire. It looks like there will be one in Ohio. Bev and the Berkeley team are confronting Florida. DUer ignatzmouse is tearing apart North Carolina and publishing an excellent analysis which will suggest where to look for fraud. Many election lawsuits are now underway http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/cases.html

Is it hopeless? No, I think giving up would be hopeless.

[goldengreek]

40. You're right, malatesta1137

The Clintons have done again what they always do so well -- stab Democratic constituents in the back. This time by telling us to just move along and that nothing's happened.

BTW: if you believe Bill didn't know there were no WMD's in Iraq I've got a tower in Paris to sell ya.

Bush will get away with this, we'll have more war, and we'll probably have a depression. I'm working on my degree to get out of the country myself and I'd recommend everyone do the same.

The HOWS of the theft of this election are just things that are nice to know for the history book.

[IAMREALITY]

55. Yes, You're Right

Let's run! Let's allllll run away like little girlies. Let's all turn into American pussy's and hang our head in our hands in shame. That's right. Screw fighting for what's right, we are WEAK, Let's just Run awayyyyyyy. Runn like little girlllllyyys..

Ahhhhhhhh No. I'll stay and fight instead. I'll tell ya what, you go run off to Canada, We'll stay here and defend our great country, our great nation, the strongest nation in the world that is AMERICA from its oppressors!

[mountebank]

41. Why not write this e-mail on Jan. 6 instead of now?

You're probably right - and congratulations. But what good does it do, aside from providing you some personal satisfaction, to convince anyone now? Fact is, we need the recount, we need the outrage. So until Jan. 6 I don't want to distract or discourage anyone.

It's even more disgusting that you actually think there was fraud!

And I wonder why you want to discourage people? Maybe you are selfish, smug, or have oppositional disorder. But I can't see a single good reason why you are committed to disabusing DU'ers of the idea that they can do something to change the outcome of this election.

Get a different hobby. Ice-skating? Dog-sledding? Just go away.

[mountebank]

43. AND - this isn't "DU."

This is DU Presidential Election Results and Discussion. Plenty of DU'ers, long time ones, over in GD who never come here, not even to tell us how stupid we are. I suggest you not come in this discussion.

Do you go into DU groups to tell the Astrology group how they are wasting their time because everyone doesn't and will never believe in Astrology? And at the same time admit you believe in Astrology? That seems the logic of what you are doing here.

[goldengreek]

44. Listen to your leaders, mountebank

Both Hillary and Jessie Jackson have specifically declared this election to be over in public. They have no intention of following up on our leads and they speak for the establishement of the Democratic Party. The best we have is a few dregs from Kerry's daughter and maybe a tea leaf reading on Kerry himself.

Has it occurred to you that all these Democratic lawyers are trying to keep a lid on us?

You must keep in mind that America isn't a democracy. Some decision's been made by a bunch of very powerful people and we're just cannon fodder.

[ClassWarrior]

45. YOUR leaders, Greek?

I thought they were OUR leaders. Or was that a Freudian slip?

NGU.

[goldengreek]

46. I'm a liberal...

...and I gladly voted for Kerry. Frankly he surprised me because he was a lot more vigorous than I thought he'd be.

But is Clinton my leader? Hell no. Fuck him. He murdered more than a million people in Iraq over a buch of WMD's that he knew damn well weren't there.

You know, the only time I ever heard him be rude to anyone it was with Amy Goodwin on Pacifica Radio. Clinton hates liberals. He's made a virtue out of his right-wing neoliberal economic policy that's gutted this country and now may be on the verge of dropping us into a depression. It's the same as Bush's, just "nicer." Actually it's just more cleverly disguised.

Hillary was raised a Republican and will die one as well, albeit not nearly as wacked out as this current bunch. She'd be very right-wing if this were 1970.

Jessie? I like him, and in his case I guess he's just been beat.

Fasten you seatbelts. It's gonna be a bumpy four years.

[mountebank]

52. Those aren't my leaders.

And it's no good reason to stop investigating, stop fighting.

[IAMREALITY]

58. Has it Occured to you

That we don't give a fuck? We are not fighting for what the fucking dem lawyers think. We are fighting for the core values of AMERICA! Only WE can save democracy, and democracy is always worth fighting for. So if you want to continue to sit back and take it up the *expletive deleted* than more power to ya. But those of us that are REAL AMERICANS know what is worth fighting for, and know what is important!

[Eloriel]

42. Uh, sounds more like a "go back to sleep" message to me

I don't think there's much, if any, chance for kerry to assume the Presidencey come Jan. 20 or any date thereafter (and I am concerned about some who are pinning so much of their hope on that improbability).

But, in fact, that's not my goal. This isn't about Kerry, it's about preserving democracy itself, because it's hanging by a thread right now. If you -- or others -- don't see the point in fighting with everything we've got against these machines, then -- well, don't. Do something else. Or not. But showing your ignorance of this subject and its importance isn't all that productive, even if you think it makes you feel better in the short run.

Never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. -- Sir Winston Churchill.


VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

[kk897]

50. It's not about Kerry so much...

Eloriel said: "But, in fact, that's not my goal. This isn't about Kerry, it's about preserving democracy itself, because it's hanging by a thread right now."

Exactly my sentiments!

A Kerry win would be a nice lagniappe of the recount, but for me, it's kind of beside the point. I would hope that I would feel the same way if the tables were turned and it was the Democrats who were perpetrating massive fraud and disenfranchisement (and media control and all the horrible things the GOP or the Administration seems to be behind).

I would love, love, love it if there were not people out there working to make sure that only some people are allowed to vote---those they choose to allow to vote. But, sadly, such is not the case. Therefore, I will keep trying to expose them, even if people say I'm crazy or a dreamer (but I'm not the only one, and that's the great thing about this forum!).

[pointsoflight]

48. Yeah, let's ignore the problems and hope they go away.

Yeah, that'll happen. Great approach.

[Stand and Fight]

49. Join in Discussion

I've posted a thread in opposition to this one. Join in, it's called "A Message to Dissenters and Defeatist"!

[IAMREALITY]

53. Wake up Malat

Regardless of probabilities it is our duty as patriots and AMERICANS to fight it as best we can. That first phase is pre-inauguration. Sure, we know the odds are stacked against us, but those of us with enough spirit are choosing to FACE those odds, DEFY those odds, and NOT GIVE UP! That is our duty, that is our courage, that is what makes us great Americans, is that we DO NOT turn tail and run at the sign of adversity. We DO NOT turn tail and run when faced with overwhelming odds. We are Patriots, We are Soldiers, We will march on, we will fight on, and We will fight for the cause of truth and democracy with every breath in our souls!!!

[rucky]

61. As long as this thread is kicked, I may as well say...

let's just let it sink, shall we?

please, no need to respond.

[MinneapolisMatt]

63. What's the point...

...of even starting these types of threads?

I don't post around here much, but I thoroughly appreciate all the efforts everyone is doing here. Why make fun of them? ...because that's what you are doing.

Nothing may be proven this week, this month, next year or even ten years from now. But that doesn't mean it's not important, and it's certainly not laughable.

Nobody needs a wake-up call around here. I think we all know damn well what's been going on in this country, and it's not pretty. But unless people actually TRY AND DO SOMETHING constructive about it, nothing will EVER change.

[Generator]

77. The point is

The op thread poster wants us to be as cynical, hopeless,and as realistic as he is.

I get it. The chances are slim to no way in hell that the election results are going to be overturned.

The chances of effecting change in this country are small as well condsidering the massive amounts of propaganda we are up against.

But I heard something on my local KBOO this morning that I just loved.

The head radio guy doesn't want to go along with supporting the voter fraud idea even though he suspects it's highly possible it took place.

Much like opening thread poster-we need to change the stupidians of this country that would ever vote at all for Bush.

But...we have the mainstream media on the side of the Republicans, we have the Republicans on the side of the Republicans and they have all houses of the government.

We need the LEFT on the side of the LEFT. If all the people that voted for Kerry were on this mission to make the voting transparent and provable-we would not be a miniority.

I'm never been so awake personally. These people that are fighting are the only thing that gives me hope and makes me to stay in America. I'm not closing my eyes. WE are not stupid, we know exactly how dark it is.

[understandinglife]

64. And, of course, we all know what Republicans would....

....be doing if they were in exactly the same position as the Dems are, today, 23 Nov 2004.

For sure, they'd have already gotten over it; forgot about it;......surely......

NOT!NOT!NOT!NOT!

"Prove My Vote Counts, Now" everyone.

Peace.

[helderheid]

69. Most of the world is on our side

Keep writing international media.

[Turn CO Blue]

70. Whew! That is some inspiring post! (sarcasm)

While I appreciate that you feel strongly about this subject, and that you feel your roots are firmly planted in the soil of the practical reality, I not sure that I understand your need for sharing your grim and condescending view of how stupid, "aimless", and utterly hopeless it is for this group to engage each other in these discussion forums and to continue
to hope,
to debate,
to protest against the status quo and corruption.

Everyone has his/her own calling. Some are called to participate in revolution here, some will be researchers and historians, some will simply engage in ideas and listen to others. Apparently, some will lose all hope.

My counterpoint:

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
-Margaret Mead

[malatesta1137]

78. show me the money

cut the talk and show me results.

[ClassWarrior]

79. Why?

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

81. a nice message in my mailbox:

I won't identify the sender:

>>I applaud your post

But prepare to be ripped to shreds by the zealots.

Their fervor and the rancor with which they attack people who have decided to focus on other aspects of politics, I feel, threatens to destroy DU from within.

And won't the fundies LOVE to see that :(<<

[brindis_desala]

82. You're anger is misdirected

Just because a cause SEEMS hopeless does not mean it should not be pursued. The things you want: the American couch potatoes to get up off their fat asses won't happen without a good kick in the rear end and that's what these energized folks at DU are doing. That a liberal like Kerry could garner as many votes as he did considering the hatchet job he endured from the MSM not to mention Rove's blatant lies should give us hope. Look at the extremes the repugs still had to go to to steal it. This is not about Kerry brother, this about survival.

[pointsoflight]

83. There are many wonderful forums here.

If you are not interested in the issue of voting irregularities and electoral reform, by all means get involved in the many excellent discussions on other issues.

It's a GOOD THING for so many people to be interested, and it's a GOOD THING for different people to take on different causes, because there are many of them that need to be addressed. What good is accomplished by being critical of people who happen to be motivated by different issues than the issues that motivate you?

[malatesta1137]

88. being realistic

and pointing out the truth might hurt people but it's necessary.

[pointsoflight]

92. So you don't think electoral reform is important?

I assume you do. So here's my point. There are two reasons one might have for wanting to keep focusing on these issues, keep crunching the numbers, keep e-mailing the media, etc.:

1) To somehow get Kerry in office

and/or

2) To expose all of the problems that occurred in the 2004 election--whether they be dienfranchisement, machine glitches, tampering, or whatever--so as to ramp up the pressure for change in the electoral process.

So even if you don't think #1 is realistic, the efforts people are putting towards #1 are still important in that they contribute to #2.

[hippiechick]

99. Yes, there are many wonderful forums here ...

... and it's really too bad that every thread, everywhere seems to get hijacked by the "IT'S THE FRAUD, DUMBASS" people who don't seem to want anyone to talk, think about, or work on anything else.

If y'all could just stay in your own little echo chamber, others of us would be more than happy to let you there forever.


:hippie:

[ClassWarrior]

93. VOTE FRAUD "ZEALOT" THREAD HERE!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=73437&mesg_id=73437&page=

NGU.

[bobbyboucher]

84. Bold, stern, awesome, inspiring, perceptive, and

:boring:

[Snivi Yllom]

85. all correct

[Stop Shrub]

86. democracy will prevail

.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

94. pssst....you do realize that malatesta means...

..."crazy in the head", right?

Word to the wise-ignore....

[masshole1979]

95. Why do people like you even bother reading DU?

If it's so certain your or anyone's efforts to affect the public sphere, or even discover the truth, are worthless, why bother?

Why not just get fat and watch TV all day like the rest of the country?

In the meantime, leave us alone!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

96. Aw, go throw your wet blanket on someone else.

WE'RE WATERPROOF!

[Eric J in MN]

97. It's called investigating.

The idea is to find out the truth.

[jsw_81]

100. I totally agree

It seems that the vast majority of the posters on this site are stuck in the denial phase of the grieving process. Yes, it hurt like hell to lose (especially to an idiot like Bush), but there comes a point when we have to dry our tears and face reality so that we will be ready next time around.

This nonsense about recounts and Ohio "flipping" for Kerry has got to stop!

[LisaL]

101. Sure looks like it.

Bush's got a man date, you know.
Can't argue with someone who got a man date.
Now Ukraine, well, that's another story. People there actually protesting the election.
The best we can hope for is that election will be overturned... in Ukraine.
:eyes:

[malatesta1137]

102. people in Ukraine are smart

they won't let themselves be fooled by the media and their 'leaders' like Americans.

[Stand and Fight]

103. Why is this guy not removed?

He has gone around insulting people left and right, and the moderators allow him to continue to do it. Rather than working with us, he's working against us and is nothing short of an absolute troll.

[Duncan]

104. PLEASE STOP KICKING THIS

Malatesta1137 and fellow kickers of this thread, its enough that we have to see the GLARING problems with this election ignored by almost everyone. To get this defeatist message encouraging others to ignore the problems repeatedly kicked in this forum is extremely irritating.

[Doohickie]

105. Be a skeptic if you want, it's the sane thing to do.

But I still believe John Kerry will be inaugurated on Jan 20.

I refuse to even consider jumping on the bandwagon of defeat until the Electoral College votes.

Great things are afoot.



I BELIEVE!

[Joe Chi Minh]

106. Some whackaloon

posted on an earlier thread today, wittering that Bev Harris was kind of lowering the tone by having people grub about in a dumpster! And putting the other posters here in a bad light, (evidently, in the eyes of those notoriously classy and sensitive neocons).


I'd wanted to respond directly to his post, but can't find it now. But, this seems a likely place to reply to his nibs, so...

If grubbing around in garbage dumps is good enough for the FBI, the CIA and MI6, I guess Bev Harris and her lieutenants will just have to make do. While apologising, of course, to the Court, for lowering the tone of the proceedings ... simply to provide Exhibits A,B, etc....