ARE WE IN BIZZARO WORLD? MICHAEL MOORE SILENT>>>

[Laura PourMeADrink]

What in the HELL is going on here? up is down. black is white.

Not one single item about fraud on michaelmoore.com????

Is this the same man who linked the Saudis to Bush and 9-11???

Maybe we are all in a bad dream and will wake up and Kerry will have moved in the White House and the sun will shine and the birds will sing.

[New Earth]

1. maybe

they're all waiting for the evidence to speak for itself? if it gets too much attention right now, it will just attacked and put more doubt in people's minds.

i'm trying so hard to make sense of it (the silence)

[Buzzkitty]

2. I think the collective silence

speaks HUGE volumes. Jesse Jackson on CNN saying * won fair and square, the deafening silence of the entire Democratic party, Clinton (and I thought this was somewhat tongue in cheek) saying he liked BOTH Kerry and Bush? Add it up, wait and see. Something's going to blow.

[Jasper 91]

4. Either that or they have all been taken over by pod people.

[rosyhue]

36. HAHA

good point

[Hobbes199]

37. Total pod-people scenario

It's like a really bad, really long dream going on.

[LSparkle]

5. You mean, other than my head?

I'm about ready to lose it -- it's like someone has thrown a bucket of cold water on dissent, even in our own ranks.

[geo]

12. Moore is a target in the rhetoric game...

Hi all,

I wouldn't be too shocked that Michael Moore isn't visibly jumping into this. What's going in behind the scenes is hard to tell, but could you imagine the GOP-driven media backlash that would immediately surface if Mr. Moore was publicly a part of criticizing the election? Not to mention that the details of 9/11 are distrubing enough to keep him busy for some time... I believe there was word to a sequel to Farenheit 9/11.

Just watch and take notes on the behavior. The rhetoric game is active today, and we need to stay sharp in figuring out what it all means.

Warmly,

-George

[BlueDog2u]

14. Makes sense to me

as well. There has to be so much going on that we aren't seeing, and let's not assume that ALL of it is bad.

[loudsue]

64. WHY do people keep saying we're not seeing what they're doing???

When activists from all over the country are ALL OVER these issues, and there ARE NOT ANY high profilers there..or even checking in!... how are we supposed to BELIEVE that we're not in this alone??

The GAO investigation is a limp dick....no matter what they might find, they will only be able to filter it through a neocon filter, since the neocons are in charge of what goes in and comes out.

This is a battle THE PEOPLE need to fight, because there AREN'T any "leaders" on the scene. Except, maybe, Jesse Jackson... and thank the Dear Lord for him!!

Maybe they're just in shock. Maybe they've been threatened. Who knows? But they're sure as hell NOT on "the scene", much less, armed with the facts about how easily these machines are rigged.

:kick:

[Obviousman]

15. remember his army of cameras?

Anyone know if anything came up in all that footage that might be being used?

[zann725]

49. My thoughts exactly! I got the impression he's workin on it now...

And if so, would explain his 'silence'...as one picture is worth a thousand words, as they say!

If not, maybe he has joined the pod people. Hard to tell these days, though Jesse Jackson is marching this weekend, sosome silence is breaking at last!

[ZRB]

38. I agree

[genieroze]

13. Something's going to blow.?

Monica again??? I'm sorry I had to type it, I tried to stop myself but it screamed to be said.
:silly:

[joeunderdog]

46. the silence is deafening.

All the fattest fat cats of Democrats collectively shutting up in one of the biggest political races in history. No squabbles with questionable practices everywhere?

SSSSHHHHHHHEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR

They don't want to tip their hand and fan the flames of the RW media confusers before they can present a cohesive case. Kerry's a good lawyer. You don't give your case to the opposition.

[flyarm]

51. yes it is!!!!"the silence is deafening."

and pay attention to one very transparent thing and saying...everyone involved in this ( recounting ohio and investigation by some in fla) has said the exact same thing...."we dont intend to over turn the results of this election"....they all have said it verbatum..exactly the same words.,..thats a legal tactic!!!
well if you had no intention of over turning the election ..why recount??

[jamboi]

58. Jesse has changed his tune. Mike Moore is best to stay quiet since

he would be a lightning rod for cons' scorn and that would not help us at all.

[ailsagirl]

73. What?? Jackson is doing a protest tomorrow about the election

He's saying now that Dub won "fair and square?"

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2614285

I don't get it

[HeeBGBz]

3. I think we're fixing to get bitchslapped by a asteroid

No one wants to tell the little people, while the ones in the know are going on a last hurrah with everyone else's money.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

Hey, that's the best explanation I could come up with.

[Paradise]

9. "I" believe it! n/t

[juliagoolia]

6. maybe they are resting

These people have been on the road and doing 18-20 hour days for weeks on end.

Let them be human and rest up some.

[Stop Shrub]

7. things feel like they are moving foward

but you know that nothing could happen at all...hopefully the dems will come out swinging soon, we will see.

[Gyre]

85. I admire your cautious optimism

but I fear that the "movement" you're sensing is the wind blowing past your ears while you're sitting on a picnic bench.

Gyre

[Ducks In A Row]

8. remember all the videographers Moore sent out on Nov 2?

It's hard work editing all that film they collected.

a little patience.

[Eric J in MN]

10. He's probably planning how to address the issue.

I expect that some time over the next four years, Michael Moore will discuss Ohio and the different waits for black voters and white voters, etc.

[BlueDog2u]

16. I have no doubt.

[genieroze]

11. War is peace

love is hate, Bush is sane.

[geo]

17. We couldn't possibly be in Bizarro world...

Hi all,

We couldn't possibly be in bizarro world. We still have a voice on this thread. Stay positive; until we lose them, the tools of democracy will serve our efforts to keep things in check. These tools include, but are not limited to the first ammendment and sunshine laws.

It is a little cliche, but remember the quote "you can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time"?

Keep active. Stay sharp. Read, analyze and focus. We are in a battle for our democracy, in my opinion, and to chalk it up to a Bizarro world hypothesis is giving up way too easily.

It was worth a quick chuckle though... :)

Warmly,

- G

[EricWhitaker]

My sentiments exactly

I no longer give a fuck about shit outside of me and mine as of today and this last post. Used to read Dem underground the last 4 years without posting to keep my sanity. Well, Im no longer sane so fuck it.

Fuck everything

[Cowboy Joe2k]

84. Freedom is Slavery.

Orwell, Section three, Chapter Three.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. Good Point Geo - Why the rhetoric?

You know when the republicans put their spin machine in motion -- they are trying to counteract something they've all discussed. That means they know the case is building against them.

[wrate]

19. He obviously has been asked to stay quiet. And the people who asked

him to do so are probably on his side, otherwise we all know MM has the means to say whatever he wants. Something is going on behind the scenes. The good thing is that this type of silence never lasts for too long.

[Buzzkitty]

23. I absolutely agree

And the fact that MM of ALL people is silent is just huge.

[NVMojo]

67. and if you all remember, MM showed a surfact picture of some of

the very same connections that are alluded to in the Madsen story. That took guts but it was good he did it so visibly and then took it on the road or he might be dead in the Cheasepeake Bay too....

[The Flaming Red Head]

20. I saw that. He should have links to Bev on the main page.

IMOFO

[Doohickie]

22. It's quiet because

Kerry is in control.

[The Flaming Red Head]

39. By tomorrow he'll be back on board

He's always been like that. ((((sigh))))

He still has the other stories on voter fraud, on the read more, or what I call the 2nd or 3rd page, and Bev is still way down there in the links page.

[shockra]

21. Moore's got to be embarrassed

He stated that the purpose of F9-11 was to encourage people to get out and vote. He would feel pretty foolish to have to say to those people now, that *oops*, when I told you to vote I didn't know that there was going to be massive voter fraud and it wouldn't count anyway.

"F9-11 1/2" is a foolish attempt to recapture the popular movement created by the first film, without addressing what REALLY needs to be addressed in a film now -- votergate. But he's caught between a rock and a hard place, because if he admits massive voter fraud went on, then he admits that his message to get out and vote wasn't enough. And that he's not the wise guru so many thought he was. He missed the even bigger picture. Now people are going to be pretty cynical either way, whether he takes up the issue of voter fraud, or not.

[freeplessinseattle]

24. Nope, not his style, trust me. integrity is more important than pride

[troubleinwinter]

27. Say what?

His messaage to go vote is an embarrassment to him? Uh, I don't know how you come up with that. Why would people be "cynical"? Well, maybe about your message, but not his.

[AgadorSparticus]

76. You mean Micheal Moore doesn't know EVERYTHING??

i mean, it only woke up millions of people to the travesty that is bush. but it didn't succeed in world peace. well, to hell with F911 then.....:eyes:

[meatsack]

25. Must Read

Check the 'must read' part of his site. It has had several articles about possible election fraud. It's kind of tapered off, but if you go back a couple of days you'll find a lot of articles he's linked to.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php
I think the Nov. 18 had a bunch of them, but that's just from memory....

[liquiduniverse]

26. He had a link about Bev's Volusia story up on the site the other day.

It's just not on the front page any more because it was posted on the 19th. I think the reason he doesn't want to get in the fray too much is that he wants to keep under the radar for a little while.

[meisje]

28. Too busy counting his $$$

[dewaldd]

29. It's too big a story to be wrong on. Not worth risking.

[SmokingJacket]

30. Went to a MoveOn House party last night...

And was rather surprised to find that at least HALF -- maybe more -- of the attendees firmly believed that there was fraud and that was the only thing we should be talking about right now. And EVERYONE -- not just at our party but nationally -- believed that Election Reform should be a major goal for MoveOn. The MoveOn moderators (the parties participated with MoveOn via the internet) seemed taken aback. The Mod I heard wouldn't mention the F word, but said something to the effect of, "well, certainly, long lines, disenfranchisement, blah blah blah..."

And people at the party I was at (none of whom I'd met before, incidentally, so we're not talking about my tinfoil pals) said, "No, COUNT the votes, that's the issue!"

The people are going to push and push and push on this one, even if the media and the big names are reluctant to call it out.

[Nightjock]

42. "well, certainly, long lines, disenfranchisement, blah blah blah..."

Screw them if they are too stupid or scared to take this on.Or too naive.
They will never get another dime from me.

[MarkusQ]

83. They do have a point though...

Don't under estimate the effectiveness (or illegality) of "long lines". Six votes per precinct in Ohio would have tipped the election. And it's an issue that people can come to grips with easily.

• It's clear how Blackwell (for example) could have biased the allocation of resources,
  
• It's clear why some people think this was done
  
• It's clear (with just a little thought) how this could have had major impact,
  
• and finally it's clear (with just a little more thought) why this is illegal.
  

It's not as sexy as the other theories, but I can see why people like it.

--MarkusQ

[trudyco]

50. Moveon Update?

What's happening with Moveon? Were they part of the GOTV with the democrats and ACT? I was wondering if they tabulated their assessment of who voted on the dem side and who was suppressed and how that jived with official numbers?

Did the GOTV cover the red, rural counties? Bush had amazing turn out in some of them. I'd love to have another level check on votes other than the "leaked" earlier exit polls. I tried contacting ACT and Moveon but never got a response. Oklahoma had some interesting returns.

Can the 527's collaborate after the election?

Trudyco

[AJH032]

31. Michael Moore's site was the place that I first learned of Fraud

He had a link on www.michaelmoore.com to the Thom Hartman article on Common Dreams.

[4democracy]

45. Those links are still on Michael's website, Bev Harris' story about

the garbage bag is on there, even Kerry's video is linked on latest news. Just because he doesn't tell us what he is are doing,doesn't mean anything. I say let's give him a break. I for one, had no idea Michael Moore was making a documentary about the "shrubs" until it was released. He has already said he is going to make another one to be released in the next couple of years.

[burn the bush]

57. I thought I saw something about MM new vote fraud film

I have been to too many places to remember where it was. Seems like it was a link to view a piece of it but the site never came up for me. But it may very well be that he is just very busy trying to get his video doc. of the vote fraud together before he comes out.

[fugue]

32. Don't forget that he got pneumonia while on his Slacker's Tour

He probably needs a great deal of rest, to get over the bug and the fatigue of the campaign.

Between that and going through his election footage, who has time to write?

[Downtown Hound]

33. I'm sure he will eventually take a stand on it

but only when there is more information available. Right now, it sure looks like there was fraud but there's no way to prove it. Moore doesn't make half-assed accusations. If he says something, you can be sure he has done his homework. And my guess is, that's what he's doing right now.

[Debbie13]

34. Michael Moore's website

Since Nov 2nd it has seemed like a nightmare.

I'm sure I saw something on Michael Moore's website about recounts and fraud, but I can't seem to find it now. Has anyone else been able to?

[The Flaming Red Head]

40. Archives link (scroll down to Nov 6th and the 19th) and so on

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?archive=show

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. He isn't pushing a movie or book right now

[Turn CO Blue]

41. He had a link about Ohio hearings two weeks ago. n/t

[yodermon]

43. HEY EVERYONE WHO IS FREAKING OUT OVER

the silence of everyone except Nader on the fraud issues....

I share your frustration, but let's try to withhold judgement until the electoral votes are opened in Congress, counted, and no Democrat challenges them.

THEN, I say, hell hath no fury.

[Paligal]

52. Michael Moore is probably taking a well-deserved break

Either he is recouperating from a very stressful campaign (he was traveling like a madman in the months leading up to the election), or he knows that if he gets personally involved, it will only give the right a target for debunking all this. Don't forget, the republicans merely have to say Moore's name and they all say, "Oh, lies. Propaganda". He may be better staying out of the limelight until we get the evidence we need to expose them.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cyn2]

48. Not bad beat Halle Berry and Eisner n/t

[Scrooge]

54. moore intriguing

oh please. Who says Moore isnt intriquing? The South? Personally I think he should be Time Mags "Man of the year".

[myschkin]

53. wait a minute!

Don't forget that Moore had most of his facts of 'Fahrenheit 9/11' of Greg Palast - and Palast is now strongly invastigating about the fraud... (indeed he's one of the loudest voices of this issue)

[Duncan]

56. Just what I was thinking. n/t

[progressoid]

55. Moore silent? Not necessarily a bad thing

While I appreciate his movie, I think he may be a roadblock to cogent discussions with the 'media'. He's too volatile. I think this one has to break without him this time.

Besides, the rumor is that he's working on a voter fraud movie right?

[KMG]

59. And maybe I will win the lottery

[IAMREALITY]

60. I just wanted to say Goodbye

Cause from the posts I've seen so far I'm not certain my fellow DU'rs are going to let ya stay very long.

:hi:

[KMG]

61. Why is that

because I've seen many others on here that are having difficult times. Some express it in different ways.

[freedom for all]

62. i agree

Better watch you say around here.. We are censored around here unfortunatly..But it is politics no big deal.. Just please stay and voice your opinion in a professional way until they boot you..They really are some great people here but like in life they are good and bad everywhere.

[KMG]

63. I am being professional

I don't swear, do drugs, smoke, have sex...oops forget that last one...

[Spiffarino]

68. Good for you!

This place can be pretty intolerant if you don't go along with the fraud meme. You have a right to your opinions, as do I. However, it's counterproductive to follow so many vote fraud threads just to tell folks that you don't believe them. If you don't like it, I humbly recommend that you give your evidence, then find some different threads to comment on just to chill out.

Your avatar indicates you're a Christian. Me too. That's why I can't abide George W. Bush. Bush consistently goes against the teachings of Christ.
He is responsible for an unjust war that goes against the teachings of all reputable Christian scholars.
He is actively gutting social programs that are pushing thousands more people into poverty.
He is actively destroying God's creation by putting polluters into positions of stewardship over His creation.
He pays lip service to "compassion" while continually hurting the meekest among us.

There's a lot more, but you get the idea. Comments?

[KMG]

69. Yes I am a Christian

I was saved when I was 3. Fell away and now I'm back. O8) This site is pretty hard core I guess you would say. I personally don't have the hate thing going on with Bush. I suppose that makes me "less than" on here. But it's interesting to read others thoughts. I know how they feel when you put your whole heart into something and it doesn't happen. I guess I remember my mom saying "Don't cry over spilt milk." and I've always had the ability to get over things quickly. That actually is a helpful attitude to have, not a bad one.

[Spiffarino]

70. Understood

...but most of us don't see it as "spilt milk" and are concerned about the future of democracy if we continue to use untraceable machines to count our votes. I think, regardless of party, anyone would have to agree that it isn't good to entrust your vote to something that can be manipulated yet is unverifiable.

Here's the worst part: The software is proprietary. The companies that own the source code refuse to allow anybody to check it out and verify that it's accurately counting every vote. The people who own all the e-voting companies are Republican donors, and one is a Dominionist. Would it be better if Barbra Streisand and Alec Baldwin owned them? Hardly.

And by the way, I don't hate Bush. I hate what he and the neocons do. Hate for people has no place in a Christian heart.

[KMG]

71. I agree

that there should be a paper trail. I just think the Michael Moores and Barbra Streisands of the world hurt us this time around. I think they are out of touch with the mainstream America, whatever that may be anymore. Seeing MM in the Presidents box was a little over the top I think.

[IndyOp]

82. I work at not having the hate thing going on with Bush...

I work at not having the hate thing going on with Bush - for the sake of my own sanity and personal effectiveness. One of my favorite sayings is that holding resentment against someone else in order to hurt them is like trying to hurt someone else by injecting poison into myself.

There are times when I slip and really do feel hatred for him like when I look at photos of children who have been wounded by bombs dropped in Iraq and when I think of the people who have suffered as a result of his tax cuts to the wealthy (vets who don't have access to all the health care they need, schools that need funds, elderly who can't afford medicines and doctors visits).

I really have to sometimes think about the stories I have heard about him that humanize him -- like the fact that when he was a kid he as very solicitous of his mother after his sibling died and the fact that when he worked with troubled teens he really was effective (though he did not run the program as he claimed in his autobiography).

Sometimes its hard...

In any case, welcome KMG! I hope you will stick around. :hi:

[myschkin]

89. are you really christian?

Sorry, KMG, Bush l i e d about the Iraq war - and as he faught in all his election campaigns was never very christian... (with dirty tricks)

So we think Bush is evil because he is so immoral.

Michael Moore just showed the truth, which nobody wanted to see - mixed with some humour - what's the bad thing about that?

If you are saved as a christian, fight for the poor and people without a voice. Fight against aggression. Fight for a true and fair behaviour against everybody, for understanding... That's what Jesus have done (according to the bible).

Although Kerry didn't talked much about this, he stands more for this values.

[KMG]

91. Well,

So do you think Michael Moore is moral?

[Spiffarino]

65. Who knows, but

...there are plenty of other people on this. They're just not getting any time in the SCLM.

It will take a massive break to get the story to take wing. Maybe Kerry and the DNC are sandbagging. Maybe they are getting enough evidence together to release like a bombshell. Who knows? I hope that's what's happening.

From what I experienced on Election Day, I can't believe the fix wasn't in. The exit polling all night long had us close in North Carolina. Then all at once Bush has an insurmountable lead? No way.

[NVMojo]

66. I think the collective silence means something is up. We have no

idea what goes on at the level these people are involved in. I just hope they are all safe and we get to the bottom of this however we have to. I feel like a neocon Mob has its clutches tightly around this country.

[ailsagirl]

72. I feel as if we've been hijacked-- same as you

[trayfoot]

75. hate to be a "spoiled sport"

but I think the silence is indicative that we are screwed, as far as Kerry being innaugurated is concerned. I just don't see any movement that is encouraging - from anyone. Wish I did. The thought of 4 more years of this bastard and his crime cartel is enough to make anyone sick.

[capi888]

74. Here is a Documentary you must see! Tells the whole Story

I am to New to start a Thread! Please post this EVERYWHERE!
I received this on another blog and they really want this Movie posted to everyone you know...It the WHOLE story of where this Bush Regime is taking us and planned to take us from the beginning.
I would appreciate some of you more established posters to put it on other forums. This movie is over an hour, but you won't regret seeing it. I don't know if it has been posted, but tried to hit a thread that was small... I read DU alot and Thank You for keeping us informed and educated!

HIJACKING CATASTROPHE!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6895.ht...

United We Stand, Devided we Fall!

[trayfoot]

77. can't get there through your link

[capi888]

80. Sorry about that here is a new link.....

Hijacking Catastrophe

Download the film here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6895.htm

I don't think the htm copied...

[helderheid]

78. Moore did have a fraud link on his site

but that was weeks ago.

[propagandafreegal]

92. Yes, it is STILL available via direct link... here ya go....

more proof that he is working behind this scenes. The link is not accessible from www.michaelmoore.com


http://michaelmoore.com/electionwatch/index.php

He is definitely doing something undercover...

Go Michael! He is such a courageous hero.

[Her Blondness]

79. He had film crews in Florida, but the story was in Ohio n/t

[KaliTracy]

81. he was in ohio, too

Posted Election Night
"Friends,

We’ve only got two hours left on the East Coast! I am in Cleveland and the turnout is huge. It was the same this morning as we went to polling sites in Florida. People waited for three hours to vote, but no one was deterred. One man told me "I’d wait in this line three days if I had to." It’s raining here in Ohio, we’ve got a big bus and we’re pulling people out of their homes (gently!) handing out free umbrellas, ponchos, and bottles of water (the last item being slightly unnecessary, considering how soaked all of us already are!). I’ve been getting early tracking results from across the country and things are looking good -- very good. But anything can happen in the last few hours. People are just getting out of work. The lines are going to be enormous. Tell everyone you know -- as long as you are IN LINE before the closing time, they HAVE TO let you vote.
Early word has it that it is very tight in Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, and Iowa! Michigan -- don’t let me down! If you haven’t voted, stop reading this and get down to the polls. Keep calling and e-mailing your address book.
This is it. The homestretch. Let’s do it!

Yours,
Michael Moore"

[Hobbes199]

88. So he's just making a movie on it then?

[KaliTracy]

90. he called independent filmmakers

to record what was going on. I have no clue how many people were actually filming. Or if he was.
maybe someone in Florida or Ohio could answer that

tracy

[Pam-Moby]

86. What gives

On national tv George Bush states that he is confident that military force will not be necessary in the Ukraine. But here in our country is he using our military to intimidate protestors against him?

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/118865_comment.php#118867

[dzika]

87. Village Voice - "...the media are ignoring the stories..."

This article was published in the Village Voice (last story on the page)

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0447/murphy.php

<snip>
"If you think the media are ignoring stories about flaws in the presidential election, you are not alone. Letters to the Voice charge that the media (including this newspaper) have prematurely dismissed reports of polling problems. Electronic-voting critic Bev Harris claims there's a "lockdown" on reporting the story. "

"At the heart of the matter in Ohio, two reporters at the Cleveland Plain Dealer say there is a little newsroom griping over whether the paper has been doing enough. The Dealer has run pieces on discrepancies in vote reports and long waits at the local polls. "

"Other election stories lurk. Outside Ohio, a few outlets are paying attention to a statistical study from the University of California at Berkeley that finds an odd relationship between electronic voting and votes for Bush in Florida: The presence of touch-screen voting correlated with an increase in the Bush total from 2000 to 2004. And inside Ohio, third-party candidates say they'll pay for a recount once the official tally is done around December 1. The vote is still out on whether the rest of the media will notice. "