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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 01:59 PM
Original message
"Christian" manipulation of elections, here and in the Ukraine:
Edited on Tue May-31-05 02:09 PM by Ojai Person
These two articles were posted in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3755829&mesg_id=3755829

But their special relevance to elections made me have to reference them here, along with these juicy, creepy excerpts. Like any good DU-trained fraud researcher, I read between the lines and assume more than prayer is implied. The Ukraine mobilization was certainly a well-coordinated effort that involved the State Department, and --who knew? -- a "Christian" sister church in the Ukraine!

This is from the second article, "Soldiers of Christ":
http://www.harpers.org/SoldiersOfChrist.html#3-anchor

snip---
“There was,” Pastor Ted said one afternoon in his office, “a significant influence exerted on the last election by Colorado Springs.” He was meeting with me and another reporter, an Australian from a financial paper.

“You mean,” the Australian asked, “almost like a force going out from Colorado Springs?”

A force—Pastor Ted liked that. He smiled and offered other examples. His favorite was the Ukraine, where, he claimed, a sister church to New Life had led the protests that helped sweep the pro-Western candidate into power. Kiev is, in fact, home to Europe’s largest evangelical church, and over the last dozen years the Ukrainian evangelical population has grown more than tenfold, from 250,000 to 3 million. According to Ted, it was this army of Christian capitalists that took to the streets. “They’re pro-free markets, they’re pro-private property,” he said. “That’s what evangelical stands for.”


snip---
Three years ago, in the 2002 elections, Christian conservatives swept Georgia, the last Democratic bastion in the South. They toppled an incumbent Democratic governor, a war-hero Democratic senator, the state House speaker, the Democratic leader of the state Senate, and his son, the Democratic candidate for Congress in a majority black district that state Democrats had drawn up especially for him. The new Republican senator, Saxby Chambliss, and the new governor, Sonny Perdue, both conservatives and Christian, won not on “moral values” but on an exurban platform. The mastermind behind the coup was Ralph Reed, once of the Christian Coalition, who had been reborn as Georgia’s Republican chairman. Reed remains a fundamentalist, the same man who once tested employees’ commitment to “Christian values” by asking them if they supported the death penalty for adultery, but he was too canny to talk like that in public. The term “Christian,” he’d learned, is a “divider,” not a “unifier,” so he had left overt faith behind. He backed candidates who ran under the mantra of the exurbs: “Shorter commutes. More time with family. Lower mortgages.”

--snip

So, not only do they have powerful juju, they are adept at manipulating reality on many levels, beginning with a well-constructed mythic hook, which is what people are so hungry for.

But for our purposes here, we need to factor into our fraud equations or plausible scenarios how they could have been instrumental as perpetrators of the fraud.


Edited to add:
After all, the article begins by stating that this pastor talks to Bush and his advisors weekly.

As for what happened in Georgia, if the anti-gay marriage tripe of 2004 is any indicator, they look for values to appeal to a few and then use it as an excuse as to why they won the election. One thing we know about the Rethugs is that they make a plan and then stick with it. Just like Gore Vidal pointed out the obvious--they used the same blueprint in 2004 as they used in 2000, it's just that they had had four years to perfect it.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Pro free markets, pro-private property is what evangelical stands for???
Who knew? I don't recall Jesus saying he was a laissez faire capitalist. Guess I'd better re-read my Bible.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Sounds like they might be more into avenging, kick-ass angels
than into that wimp Jesus.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. In a footnote, the justification for not telling the truth:
Even today, in his more mainstream position atop the NAE, Ted's belief in less than full disclosure persists. Last fall, when the evangelical journalist Ayelish McGarvey asked Pastor Ted why President Bush, as a Christian, had not apologized for the false assertions used to justify the Iraq war, or for the dishonest smears marshaled on his campaign's behalf, Ted said: “I think if you asked the President these questions once he's out of office, he'd say, ‘You're right. We shouldn't have done it.’ But right now if he said something like that, well, the world would spin out of control! . . . Listen, I think are responsible not to lie, but I don't think we're responsible to say everything we know.”
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Stupid
Fundies do as the minister says so they won't go to hell. No other reason. Christians are immoral, lack free will, and need a babysitter in life. Our nation will die over some book. Makes me :puke:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Naw...
"Three years ago, in the 2002 elections, Christian conservatives swept Georgia..."

That was an all-Diebold, all electric, paperless election. They did not "sweep" Georgia. They stole it. Violation of one of the Ten Commandments, as I recall.

----

I, too, was struck by...

“They’re pro-free markets, they’re pro-private property,” he said. “That’s what evangelical stands for.”

Absurdity aside ("give everything you have to the poor and come follow me"), this is just a Bush-buddy leader talking. I read an article in the L.A. Times some months ago which interviewed ordinary Evangelicals who were anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war, and advocates of the poor.

----

I think we need to be very wary of this ILLUSION that Rove, Cheney and rightwing "think" tanks are quite deliberately trying to CREATE, that there is some sort of wave of rightwing Christians that swept the Bush Cartel back into the White House.

They plant stories about it. Cheney or Rove saying they had an "invisible" get out the vote campaign. Cheney talking, just before the election, about voter registration in churches.

The truth:

The Democrats BLEW the Bushites AWAY in new voter reg in 2004 (nearly 60/40) and in voter turnout (huge) which traditionally favors Democrats, and favored them THIS time. (New voters, independent voters and Nader votes all voted for Kerry in big numbers.)

Yes, we need to be concerned about crazy, brainwashed, Christian Crusader witch-burners and other ill or evil people. But I also think we need to be careful about over-reacting and conceding them more power than they really have. I have a lot of faith in Americans as a people with good common sense who believe in fairness and "live and let live" and who understand democracy and pluralism pretty damn well. The facts and the numbers bear out my faith in them.

My favorite: 63% of Americans oppose torturing prisoners UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. These people are not easily scared and not easily brainwashed. The bad guys have to work real hard at it. And this rightwing Christian thing--getting us all to believe that it's quite big--is one of their pet projects.




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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. My point exactly at the end of my post, as applied to "winning" GA .....
Edited on Tue May-31-05 03:44 PM by Ojai Person
As for what happened in Georgia, if the anti-gay marriage tripe of 2004 is any indicator, they look for values to appeal to a few and then use it as an excuse as to why they won the election. One thing we know about the Rethugs is that they make a plan and then stick with it. Just like Gore Vidal pointed out the obvious--they used the same blueprint in 2004 as they used in 2000, it's just that they had had four years to perfect it.

That blueprint being how to steal the election.

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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. 2002- Rob Georgia???
Edited on Tue May-31-05 02:46 PM by jarnocan
The election results in Georgia in 2002 were also altered by election fraud. After the 2002 election, they actually found files named "Rob Georgia", and the exit polls indicated likely election fraud. I saw and heard that several times. The exit polls were inaccurate one of the very few times that has happened.
Also don't forget the reconstructionist who own and control a large percentage of the equipment.
Petiton to support Verified Voting Lobby Day on June 9th,the Rush Holt Bill HR-550, and call for meaningful investigations of election fraud, in order to enable meaningful reform. .....
<http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/907402825> I am going to Washington to help lobby and will try to hand deliver this, also copies to other folks. I will also fax it.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. And Ralph Reed is running for AG of Georgia.
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