Troubling disclosures of Diebold payments to 2 prominent Democrats:

[Liberty Belle]

Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 03:18 pm:

From Black Box Voting:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Bev Harris & Kathleen Wynne

Large payments from Diebold are fueling influence-peddling for a $45 million Cook County/Chicago voting machine contract. Diebold has been lobbying both Ohio and Cook County/Chicago through a small corporation called ACG Group LLC, formed by a Republican and two well-connected Democrats. According to one of ACGs partners, Diebold is making payments directly to the individuals and payments are also flowing through ACG. These payments are then paid out to others. When asked what the payments to others are buying, Black Box Voting was told by Andrade that the Diebold funds pay “subcontractors.” We asked what the subcontractors do, and were told that they do “largely persuasion.”

Discuss this article here:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/72/5605.html

Election reform advocates are noticing something: Neither Republicans nor Democrats seem to have much interest in real reform. Black Box Voting has been looking into the process of voting system procurement. What we are finding explains a lot. Both Republicans and Democrats have been cashing in, and both parties may have become too beholden to take effective corrective action. Instead of real efforts to get at the truth, we are seeing attempts to control the message, with “investigations” and “reform” actions that appear to be little more than window dressing.

In 2001, Anthony Celebrezze Jr. -- a former Democratic Ohio secretary of state and attorney general -- met with a powerful Republican, John Sununu, to discuss a project selling Global Election Systems (now Diebold Election Systems). Sununu is a former governor of New Hampshire and was White House Chief of Staff under George H.W. Bush.

Sununu disappeared from the paperwork. In June 2003, Celebrezze formed a corporation with Pasquale “Pat” Gallina, a close associate of late Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) Republican Chairman Robert E. Hughes. Gallina had also been the campaign manager for former Republican Cleveland Mayor Ralph Perk. Together, Celebrezze and Gallina set out to sell Diebold machines to the state of Ohio, but a few weeks after forming the corporation, Celebrezze died of heart failure.

Diebold’s surviving Ohio lobbyist, Pasquale “Pat” Gallina, has quite a checkered past. His earlier business partners include two convicted felons, Andrew Shission and Joseph LoConti -- both targets of federal investigations because of alleged links to organized crime. Shission was an accountant for the Hell’s Angels who had been indicted for two murders, but was acquitted. He then went to jail on tax evasion and obstruction of justice. Joseph LoConti was convicted of failure to file tax returns.

A third partner, Dr. Juan Andrade Jr., joined Gallina and Celebrezze to form a Diebold sales entity, called “ACG Group, LLC.” Andrade, a national pillar of the Hispanic community, founded the U.S. Hispanic Leadership Institute (USHLI). He is closely connected to the Democratic power structure, and is the recipient of the prestigious Presidential Citizens Medal, bestowed by President Bill Clinton. Andrade is an outspoken critic of the Bush Administration, and donated heavily to John Kerry in 2004.

Dr. Juan Andrade Jr.

Black Box Voting conducted a videotaped interview with Andrade on April 28 in his office at USHLI. Andrade had scheduled an interview with another journalist. Knowing that Andrade was quietly accepting large monthly payments from Diebold, Black Box Voting managed to piggyback into the interview, to ask Andrade questions about his Diebold activities. We made it clear immediately to Andrade at the beginning of the interview that we were from Black Box Voting, and that we would have additional questions. He agreed to answer our questions, and also said that Black Box Voting is taken seriously and does very important watchdog work.

Andrade admitted that he has been receiving a monthly retainer from Diebold, but refused to say how much. Black Box Voting has obtained independent records showing that Andrade has been receiving an unusually high fee, $20,000 per month, from Diebold. Accounting records from Diebold list such fees as “Success Fees” but Andrade referred to them as his “retainer” for helping sell the machines, and said that “the money goes to me, and through the company.” Andrade stated that the funds flowing through the ACG Group pay “subcontractors to help with some of the work, the same kind of work.”

“One person can’t do this job alone in a county this size,” he said. When asked what the subcontractors do, Andrade referred to the payments as “largely persuasion” to gain public support. Black Box Voting has been unable to find anything “public” about the Cook County/Chicago Diebold deal.

Andrade is not registered as a lobbyist with either the state of Ohio or Illinois, but says he is registered in Cook County. Illinois law requires him to register in the county where he is doing business, to disclose how much he is being paid, and to provide statements every six months listing what he spends, on whom, and for what. (1)

Andrade has been considered a voting rights leader for the Hispanic community. He has received an award from Bill Clinton. Yet, he seems to have been very quiet about his involvement with Diebold. We were unable to locate any document or news article showing that Andrade has mentioned that he is one of Diebold’s highest-paid lobbyists. When asked, Andrade said that he disclosed his relationship with Diebold in Dec. 2003. We asked him where this was disclosed, Andrade said it was at "our conference" and added that he had resigned as Executive Director of USHLI in Dec. 2003, though he remained as president. However, as of today, May 9, 2005, he is still listed on the USHLI Web site as “President and Executive Director” (2). Black Box Voting interviewed Andrade in his USHLI office. (The ACG office is located in the same building.)

Andrade’s description of disclosure doesn’t quite hang together. The USHLI annual conference was held in September 2003, not December, and the ACG Group (“Andrade Celebrezze & Gallina”) was incorporated in Ohio in June 2003. If Andrade’s name was on a corporation to sell voting machines in June, why did he not disclose it to his constituency until December?

Andrade told Black Box Voting that he got his start on Hispanic issues in Chicago, but we have found that he set up shop first in Columbus, Ohio, during a time while Gallina and Celebrezze were also in Columbus. (3)(4)(5) He started with a group called the Ohio League for Hispanic Affairs in 1977. He never mentioned having ever been in Ohio in the interview.

Andrade’s Illinois organization started as “Mid-West Voter Registration and Education Project.” Later, Andrade changed the name to “Midwest/Northeast Voter Registration and Education Project. Still later, he changed the name to “U.S. Hispanic Leadership Institute”. (6)

Andrade told us that initially, Diebold had approached him and what he brought to the table was not “technical” expertise. He made a decision to work for Diebold based solely on Diebold’s presentation on the machines, and admitted that he did not seek any independent evaluation of their ability to count votes securely or accurately. This was the extent of his due diligence.

When we asked Andrade why he, as a high-profile leader in the area of Hispanic voting rights, would get involved at all in selling voting machines, he replied that he had tried everything else. He had done voter registration. He had fought redistricting battles. He had been involved in mentoring and training leaders. Now he wants to put the machines of his choice into Cook County. He said that sometimes it is surprising who you have to get into bed with.

We, too, were surprised at Andrade’s poorly disclosed bedfellows. Internal Diebold memos (7) obtained by Black Box Voting show that Andrade has been included in the decisionmaking loop with elite level managers and executives at Diebold Election Systems, Inc. (DESI): Andrade has been included in meetings and discussions with DESI Chief Financial Officer Greg Loe, Senior manager Dave Byrd, and national staffing head Beatta McInerney.

Black Box Voting is governed by a majority of board members who are minorities. This interview, and this story, is one of the most difficult we have ever done. The conflicts inherent in this blurring of lines among politicians, leaders, lobbyists and vendors, combined with the apparently habitual failure of everyone to properly disclose, is at the very root of our problems with election integrity. This story, and those that will follow in the Money Trail series, illustrate real-world issues that we will need to grapple with in order to achieve lasting change.

UPCOMING -- Part II: Gallina and the Ohio Players

Timeline:

Dec. 2001: Sununu, Celebrezze and Gallina met in Columbus to discuss selling voting machines to the state of Ohio. (8) We could not find any of them on the Ohio “List of Legislative Agents” registered as lobbyists for Diebold. (9)

June 2003: Andrade, Celebrezze and Gallina formed “ACG Group LLC,” to sell Diebold voting machines to Ohio and Cook County/Chicago. (10) According to Andrade, “ACG Group” stands for Andrade, Celebrezze and Gallina. (11) Ohio corporate documents show that it was registered under “Pat Gallina Consulting.” The name ACG reflects involvement of Andrade.

July 2003: Anthony Celebrezze died suddenly, reportedly of a heart attack. (12)

Aug. 2003: “Pat Gallina Consulting” was registered with the state of Ohio, (13) two months after it was listed as the incorporating agent for ACG Group LLC. Corporate documents are signed by Pasquale A. Gallina.

Dec. 17, 2003: ACG group was registered in the state of Illinois (14), with Andrade as corporate agent and Gallina’s address listed as the repository for corporate documents.

Supporting information:

(1) Illinois and Cook County requirements for lobbyists
(2) USHLI Web page from May 9, 2005: Dr. Juan Andrade Jr., Executive Director and President
(3) Corporate documents, Ohio League of Hispanic Affairs
(4) Mar. 24 1991 - The Cleveland Plain Dealer "Cabinet pick's ties to Hell's Angel probed in '86"..."Gallina was the personnel director for the Ohio Lottery Commission until his resignation in December 1978, after he was named in a lawsuit that prompted federal, state and local officials to investigate alleged contract kickback schemes at the commission."
(5) Jul. 5 2003 - The Associated Press: "Obituaries in the News" "Celebrezze Jr. was elected as a state senator in 1974. In 1978, he was elected secretary of state and in 1983 he was elected attorney general."
(6) Illinois Sec. State corp docs: Note that all three entities have the same number, meaning they are the same entity with a name change:
Midwest Voter Registration & Education Project
Midwest/Northeast Voter Registration & Education Project
U.S. Hispanic Leadership Institute
(7) Diebold internal communications obtained by Black Box Voting
(8) Dec. 6, 2001: Cleveland Plain Dealer, “Tubbs Jones for governor not very likely”
(9) Ohio Lobbyist listings 2000-2005: 2000 2001 2002 2003 current
(10) Corporate documents from Ohio Secretary of State for ACG Group
(11) Videotaped interview, Apr. 28 2005, by Black Box Voting: 2-min clips
video clip 1
video clip 2
video clip 3
(12) News article about Celebrezze death: Jul. 5 2003 - The Associated Press: "Obituaries in the News"
(13) Corporate documents from Ohio Secretary of State for Pat Gallina Consulting
(14) Illinois Secretary of State, corporate information for ACG Group LLC

Black Box Voting recommends a moratorium on new spending on voting systems until problems with quality and procurement procedures are resolved.

[The Doctor.]

1. Conyers is going to need help...

This is getting out of control.

[kansasblue]

2. the power of money

[rigel99]

3. Citizens can Sue Diebold

for 3 times the cost of the machines....

the power of money indeed...

the CA case was litigated successfully but settled by CA SOS...hmmmm.. what happens if we get an SOS that works with us?

[Helga Scow Stern]

5. Settled by CA attorney general, not SoS.

[Wilms]

6. Thanks for clarifying that. n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

9. It was settled because of Jim March and Bev Harris'

Greed! They could have sunk Diebold forever but instead, decided to take a 75k payoff.

[Hillary08]

15. Geez Andy!

Hokey smokes!

I've been out of state for a few months and what has happened?!! This is awful!

OMG! Is it true? Do you have pancreatic cancer? Surely it is not so! That is SOOO dangerous. You must be worried sick!

My wishes for speedy and complete recovery!

[garybeck]

28. that is not what I've been told

When I looked into the CA case I found a very different answer. The settlement was forced on them. They did not want to settle. The suit was taken over by some jerk in the CA goverment (I think it was the attorney general) and he settled the case with Diebold. A judge ruled the $75K to Diebold. I read that BBV was very upset that the case was taken over and they did not want to settle. They also gave some of the money they received away to Open Voting Consortium.

I can dig up the articles I found on this, but I'm sure some of the people reading this are already familiar with the case.

[garybeck]

29. here is one article - BBV did NOT choose to settle

it was not their decision:

http://tinyurl.com/5h99z

snip

But a critic of electronic voting who is a party to the lawsuit said the settlement did not address serious flaws in Diebold's vote tabulation software.

"It's completely without security; it's completely hackable,'' said Bev Harris, the author of "Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century."

Although Harris is entitled to some of the proceeds from the settlement, she does not have veto power over the final disposition of the case, said Lockyer spokesman Tom Dresslar.

snip

[Andy_Stephenson]

33. from the same article

"The complaint is an expanded version of a lawsuit filed by Harris and James March, another critic of electronic voting systems. The court will consider their views before a final settlement is approved."

[garybeck]

36. yeah, that article was written

after the settlement was announced but before it was approved by the judge.

BBV did not come up with the settlement, nor were they in favor of it. They are on the record in several places stating that the were not in favor of the settlement. They questioned the reasoning of it completely, and stated that it did not resolve the issues that caused them to file the suit in the first place.

Nonetheless, the judge approved it after the article was written.

Andy, you are a hero of our cause. You have done, and continue to do very important work and you are a leader in the fight for open and fair elections. But I do not think it is correct to say that BBV "decided to take a 75k payoff." Everything that I've read indicates that they were completely against this settlement and they had no power to stop it.

peace, peace, peace, peace, peace

[NC Beach Girl]

38. your information is a little off

I am not sure who provided your information but let me tell you the truth about it because it was all on the internet in Bev and Jim's own words back when the settlement was reached.

She misled readers of her forum and website on that entire Qui Tam issue. She deleted the entire forum later...but I know some here remember it. In fact..I have the link of the DU discussion about it because I was active in it as a disgusted donator/refugee from bbv.org. Despite her attempt to delete it all, much of it was pasted and preserved in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x182976

She pretended the suit was still going on well after it was already settled. She pretended that they were still "going into discovery" well after the suit was settled. She NEVER announced to her forum or on her website (which I participated in daily) that she had settled or that the case was over. Several people there begged her to just make an announcement because by then it was well known they had quietly taken the settlement. What was even worse, was that Jim March admitted on the diebold yahoo financial forum that they did not even show up in court and neither did their lawyer. (!) Yeah...they really put up a fight and WON! :eyes: In fact, Bev only RECENTLY got rid of her "questions to ask diebold in discovery" forum, all without any explanation as to what happened and why it was gone.

This is the well known standard operating procedure for Bev...erase any inconvenient history and rewrite it. Much like she actually claims that she "successfully won a suit" in CA...she did not WIN, CA did not WIN, there wasn't even a trial and they STILL used those machines...nothing changed, Jim got a new motorcycle and Bev got 75k more to lump in with the rest of the thousands of dollars that she stole from all of us.

Therefore, any new information that she has doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. You don't pick and choose when someone is honest...she has proven time and again that she is a lying, manipulative, con artist and for anyone to come here and say "oh...well forget about all that..because wow, look what she's saying now, this time she's really going to follow through and nevermind all that money she doesn't account for!" is just crazy to me. Feel free to keep donating to her and supporting her life of luxury...I'll look to real activists and leaders who produce actual results and don't leave a trail of bodies in their wakes.


Man, am I bitter? Sorry to sound off so much, but I do not want to see this woman sucker one more penny out of anyone else.

[loudsue]

51. I'm right there with you, NC Beach Girl....

I got suckered, too, and I'm not over it. I may never be over it.

BTW, I'm in NC, also! (But not at the beach...I wish I WAS..the weather is beautiful!!)

There were several of us in NC that took the bait from Bev, and we've gotten together and discussed it before.

It's so terribly sad that there are people like her out there playing with such a critical part of the future of our country. These days are truly the DARK AGES for the United States. It seems like ONLY crooks are in control. That includes control of the voting machines.

:kick::kick::kick:

[rigel99]

4. we are mobilizing a citizen response...

here is link to the last thread talks about a conference call wed. night to strategize a plan in OH to deal with this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x368806

rally the troops..this is possibly the most important thing to stop from happening in the current election reform world....

[boilerbabe]

7. Even Christopher Hitchens, who once was liberal, has seen throught this on

this, check out his article in Vanity Fair (I think April's edition?)

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NC Beach Girl]

10. I second that!

...especially when they've already posted this story one time and it dropped like a rock.

I am not interested in reading her latest trend of trashing Dems in a desperate attempt to get some attention. First there is Andrade and now she is bashing Conyers in her forum...I'm sorry, but I would trust Conyers over her any day of the week. Of course, he's a Dem and she's not so maybe I'm biased. ;)

Show us the money!

Activate the auditors!

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. She is bashing John Conyers?!?!?!?!

Where...got a link to the trashing?

[NC Beach Girl]

12. yep

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/2197/5680.html

(scroll down to the last post)

TO me it seems that she is insinuating that he's not a hero and blames him for her alleged problems with the Michigan board of elections for FOIA requests. Since I've never seen any audits done based on these FOIA requests, I'm not even sure she made them. I've seen a lot more out of Conyers' efforts.

She starts off with:

For those who look at John Conyers as a hero -- I personally dropped off the synopsis of the results of our FOIA requests with his staffers, discussed this problem with them.

[Peace Patriot]

13. Well, I'm afraid we have to face the fact that there is serious corruption

...in the conversion to electronic voting--national, local, involving both Republicans and Democrats. I've seen it in California. It's quite blatant. (Democrat Connie McCormack, head of L.A. elections, close friends with Diebold's chief salesperson, advocating paperless electronic voting, and leading the charge on the vile campaign against Sec of State Kevin Shelley; many instances of "revolving door" employment, public service vs. private voting machine companies--from former Sec of State Bill Jones down to county election officials.) At the national level, SOME KIND OF corruption must be at work. The Democratic leadership's silence on this matter BEFORE the election--their acquiescence to a blatantly fraudulent election SYSTEM, and their lack of curiosity and spine on this matter since the election--are a vast mystery to me, and a political puzzle of considerable importance. They promised time and again that every vote would be counted. Was this a screaming joke on us, or what? (--just a nice fundraising scam?).

Lifelong loyal Democratic voter and political activist here, lo these forty-four and a half years since my first campaign (1960). I'm not into bashing Democrats. I know who the bad guys are. I'm just saying. We have got to begin figuring out these blank stares we're getting from Democratic leaders, who don't seem to think it's odd--or anything out of the way--that Wally O'Dell & buds counted our votes in secret in the last election.

We go to them with our pure citizen hearts, feeling dreadfully disenfranchised and having identified the egregious non-transparency of our election system, and they act like getting just the right amount of foam on their latte is more important to them.

Sorry, but I've had it with these evasions and blank stares. I don't think the concerns of the "tired, poor, huddled masses"--the ones right here at home; us--matter much to some Democrats any more. Of those who do care, some seem insanely oblivious to the loss of our right to vote for them.

And information is information. I get my information from a lot of different sources--and have varying degrees of respect and skepticism in evaluating them, based on what I know of the source, and past reliability. I don't think there is any reason to suppress a post like this. I thought it was interesting that the guy was willing to talk about his relationship with Diebold. Point in his favor for that. And it's informative to have a dollar figure for the kind of lobbying money that is being thrown around.

That there are Democrats invested in this horrid election stealing system is no surprise to me, and it's something we need to know about. I think a lot of people have been compromised in various ways. But it is the criminals and mass murderers and master thieves and world dominationists behind it all--Bush's cronies and handlers--who need to be removed from power--those who are so severely corrupting our government that it is hardly recognizable as a democracy at the moment.

Trust, and verify. Or, don't trust--and put extra effort into verifying. Or ignore. As you think best.

[NC Beach Girl]

16. You know who I don't trust?

Bev Harris

[K8-EEE]

42. I Seriously Don't Know the Bev Harris Story.

I don't know how I missed it -- I remember her being somewhat of a hero for the electoral reform movement and then falling out of favor with DUers, but I never knew WHY, is there somewhere you can point me that tells what went on?

[NC Beach Girl]

53. Yes, I have a resource for the BH story...

Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you with it...

This is an excellent resource post by David Allen with all the background information and links provided as evidence posted in Bev's own words.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=340188

[glitch]

32. Good point - a coup will have moles. And the moles will be in elections,

since that is where a big part of the coup is rolling out. SoS, Elections officers, you name it.

Fortunately for us they have to out themselves by their actions now.

It is a mistake to assume someone is a Democrat simply because they call themselves one. It is a bigger mistake to ally oneself with someone by relying on their talk, or their title, and not looking at their actions.

We should all remember Theresa LePore.

[Amaryllis]

54. It is also a mistake to assume that just because they are a Dem, they're

not being paid off by the dark side.

[KoKo]

58. I go along with you on your post, Peace Patriot. I don't know what

to make of the Bev Harris/Andy Stephenson split and the many DU'ers who feel used and abused by Bev and now don't know who to trust.

I've read all the threads and it seems Bev has dropped certain "balls" while leaving others in place she deals with. There are accounting issues and Qui Tam issues where many DU'ers were left hanging while Bev pursued another part of her quest and left others seemingly hanging out to dry.

I do have to say here that the first "Voter Video" (downloadable) that I passed on to several people opened their eyes to what "Black Box Voting/DRE's" could do to corrupt our voting system. The folks that saw that downloaded video I e-mailed to them are now convinced that our elections have been stolen by the corruption in our voting machines owned by Repugs who supported Bush.

I have to hope that for all the bad Bev has done...that somehow that video she did with Andy will become a classic in tuning many into the "PROBLEM and the ISSUES" with NON-Verified, Unaditable, Non-Paper Ballot
tabulators.

I'm glad to see Bev mentioned again because those machines are such a huge issue in all our States who must become HAVA mandated compliant in the next year.

If a Bev Controversy keeps the issue alive and to the attention of DU New Folks who might not know the backgroundl...then so be it.

Right now if one posts about doing something about Election Reform and asks for help there's little DU Attention.

I hope some folks wondering about the whole terrible betrayal situation will read this thread and the links to the whole history and become more involved rather than turning it offn as a Bev Scam.

Bev and Andy will always be known as Ground Breakers...and those DU'ers and others who gave their time doing free research did more than they will ever get credit for to move forward what some of the rest of us are now trying to work for in "Voter Reform" in our own states.

So...some good came out of all the efforts of those who feel so misused and abused by Bev. And, we hope Andy has a speedy recovery.

:shrug: I just had to say this....because I've watched it all,(the Bev Drama) these many years on DU.

[Liberty Belle]

17. I'm not a proxy of anyone's.

But these allegations, posted in another election reform forum, seemed serious enough that I thought some at DU might wish to investigate or at least be aware.

I resent the implications of some here that anyone who posts material from a source they don't like must someone be anti-Democratic. What is un-Democratic, however, is the suggestions of censorship made here by some posters.

As for Andy's situation, I donated money for Andy and wish him all the best. I know that there was bad blood between Andy and Bev in the past. For what it's worth, I'm told by Jim March that Bev insists she had nothing to do with the recent attacks on Andy here that resulted in his surgery date being bumped. I have no way to verify that, of course, but it seems quite possible that the "freeper troll" was someone else looking to disrupt election reform efforts.

I retain a healthy skepticism, and I for one don't think it's wise to bury heads in the sand and ignore a source whose voice is being heard in our state Capitol on election reform issues.

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. I appreciate the donation...but to have my face

continually rub in Bev Harris' allegations here is not fair. She has said I am not sick...she has lied about me...she owes me money and has my equipment. I want her to simply leave me alone. She has her own forum in which to broadcast her message. She was banned from DU for many transgressions....I don't think we should keep her sprit here.

[Liberty Belle]

23. Andy, I feel very badly for causing you more pain.

If Bev owes you money, I wish she'd pay. I don't know either of you personally, and wasn't in DU back when this brouhaha occurred. I didn't post anything about old issues between you and Bev, just an election reform matter I thought seemed relevant.

For what it's worth, Jim March mentioned in another forum that he has learned more about pancreatic cancer and believes that you are ill, and that despite whatever happened in the past, he doesn't wish you any harm and hopes your surgery goes well.

Anyhow, I wish you all the best. I lost two relatives to pancreatic cancer back before there was any treatment for it, so I'm wishing you lots of positive karma! Do you have a surgery date yet?

[BigTentDemocrat]

46. Andy, where does she say you are not sick?

Are you sure she said that?

[Boredtodeath]

19. Here's what's not fair

To come into a forum where the participants wrote Bev Harris' book after being slandered, liabelled and demeaned looking for more free research to write the next book.

Nope. You won't find anyone here willing to "investigate" the unprofessional work of Bev Harris, nor anyone willing to do her research for her.

You, obviously, were not a part of the hard work DU put together to put Bev Harris on the map, only to be threatened with lawsuit and arrest when she was ready to trash this forum.

Nope. Take the Bev Harris trash somewhere else. We threw that trash out long ago and we don't recycle.

[mopinko]

26. i think it is really, really important to see the damage

that is done to the cause by bev and co. they discredit the hard work of honest people, and make us all look like a bunch of tin foil hat wackos. she is either seriously mentally ill, or she is a plant sent to discredit and destroy this movement. i don't trust a word she says. she is not a harmless crank. she harms the people who work with her, and she hurts the credibility of ALL OF US.
please leave her crap on her board. we all know where it is, if we decide to go looking for little green men, we can go there. menawhile, try not to make this place look like area 51.

[Amaryllis]

55. Absolutley agree. Dems are not immune to being paid off. And it does

explain a lot of things; how can anyone look at the actions of Cathy Cox or Conny McCormack and not ask questions? Or for that matter, Bill Richardson's behavior when the Greens tried to recount NM?

[NC Beach Girl]

56. interesting

How can you look at the actions of Bev Harris and not ask questions?

How can you stomach the fact that now that she has stolen as much money as possible from Democrats, she is now shilling over at free republic in the middle of a thread attacking Andy Stephenson?

What a hero.

[Amaryllis]

57. I do question Bev, but I also question the actions of Conny McCormick and

Cathy Cox and Bill Richardson. Is there any reason why I can't question both? They are both suspicious. I don't need Bev to make me question the actions of the above three, or of Dems' seeming lack of interest in election fraud. I have a brain; I don't need her to point out to me that something is not right. I figured that out for myself.

[NC Beach Girl]

60. Good to know...

I suppose you should question everyone and everything, that's a good thing because it lessens the chance of running around in a blind haze of hero worship.

I just notice a lot of people seem to be buying into Bev's crap every time she tries to weasel her way back into a larger spotlight using whatever means necessary. For instance, it was announced today that Cook County is buying Sequoia machines...that makes her motives for the shameful smear about prominent Democrats having dirty deals to put Diebold in Cook County seem questionable, doesn't it?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/16ballot.html

Maybe she works for Sequoia when she's not trying to sell Automark machines for ES&S, she certainly never writes anything about them.

[Amaryllis]

62. I question Bev and I question any Dems who exhibit fishy behavior. We

saw the Greens and Libs challenging the election; we saw citizens coming up with the money to do it, and the Dems not helping out; we didn't see the Dems coming through to help challenge suspicious results in NM and NV, and if they had, we may have succeeded in getting recounts in those states. At this point, who knows who all is getting paid off by the voting systems companies? Where there's smoke, there's mirrrors.

[Turn CO Blue]

43. Show us the Volusia videotapes, Bev!

I'd really, really LOVE to see that video! Where is it? Remember the story? It was about Bev and some election official having a tug-of-war over voting total receipts thrown in the trash!

Bev posted about the near-wrestling match, bragged about it, even...then the video never surfaced, and supposedly some film company owns the rights... It's disappeared off the face of the earth.

[Andy_Stephenson]

44. BBV has the rights. The video was shot

by Kathleen Wynne.

I saw the tapes...they exist...I imagine Bev is working another Qui Tam suit in Florida...but I can't say fer sure.

[Turn CO Blue]

45. A former poster on this forum called ParanoidPat

(who was a friend of Bev's, now tombstoned) told me that Bev did NOT have the rights to the tapes -- he wrote to me that the documentary film company had those rights.

Quote from ParanoidPat

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=129900&mesg_id=129900>

"The people from votergate.tv own the film and all rights to it. Bev Harris acting in her role as the Executive Director of a registered 'non-profit' corporation constitutes a 'public figure', and as such, can't stop anyone from filming or taping her official actions done in public. If, as alleged by some here, she's only in it for money or her own self promotion, She blew her big chance. She could have negotiated a contract with the producers for a cut of the profits or creative control in exchange for guaranteed access to everything happening behind the scenes. She obviously did not do that because she's there to audit the election. Votergate.tv is there to make a documentary. They are two different entities there with two different goals. One has NO CONTROL over the actions of the other."

So is the owner of the videotape votergate.tv or Kathleen Wynne (or is that one-in-the-same for all I know), and how can we find out?

Andy, I am glad to hear that you have seen the evidence, though. At least the crazy Volusia thing really happened, and there IS some evidence somewhere.

I would agree, somebody is holding onto this footage for whatever reasons, if it's Bev, then she may be holding it for personal gain ;( ;(

Does anyone know if the footage really was ever shown on the "local NBC" affiliate in Volusia county, as was asserted at the time? I wonder if anyone taped the broadcast?

-----
tcb

on edit: spelling

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. I can assure you

Bev has the rights...I was there that day...I know what happened. Kathleen wynne shot the video on her own camera. Votergate TV arrived after the incident was videotaped.

[Turn CO Blue]

49. Do you know if Kathleen gave up her rights to the video

to Bev?

The other angle is that the local NBC affiliate aired the video (allegedly) -- would they have some rights to re-play it?

[Andy_Stephenson]

50. I was at my sisters funeral when the NBC affiliate played the video

But the rights and the video are still owned by BBV.

[KoKo]

59. Andy....you have that laptop on your drains! A trooper and good

wishes to you...am sure you see all the support here on DU. Please read post #58. While so many of us are horrified at the Bev controversy and all that went on there, and with your experiences...I do want you to know that here in NC many of us who have bills now in the NC house going to the Senate owe so much to your efforts and the first BBVoting video in which you and Bev "take to the road."

It started a movement and convinced many in a "down to earth way" that YES there could be a problem with "Computerized Machines" counting votes seeing Bev and you walk through the issue.

Sounds simplistic? You'd have to know that most folks we are trying to awake to the issues of DRE's and why they are bad for voting don't give a damn who Bev is or you for that matter...they just needed to see "visually" what they can't understand when you try to write it out or explain it to them. Folks just don't have the patience for "getting in depth" anymore and if you can video it with a "grandmother" and a "plucky investigator" it gets their interest.

It's like making sausage. That old expression: "You don't need to see how it's being made or what's in it to like it." Most average Americans just want to see the visuals...and don't care to question what's behind it. :shrug:

[salvorhardin]

47. Andy... I'm a little confused

Whose post are you responding to? The OP?

[Kelvin Mace]

14. Until Bev and minions

stop attacking Andy and spreading lies about him, I think we need to put an end to her postings.

[autorank]

20. The information doesn't know where it came from. If it's true, it's usefl

I gave to Andy but I also want any information that's pertinent. If this is accurate, rock on! I'll take it anywhere. Besides LibertyBelle posted this.
:hi:

[Liberty Belle]

24. Thanks, autorank, for cleaning up some of the mud

being slung at me!

[kster]

31. Keep posting

believe me there are people reading the Bev threads. We just walk softly through them. NGU

[Kelvin Mace]

35. If it came from Bev, chances are

it's a lie.

Folks, Bev Harris is out for Bev Harris and no one else. How many different ways do we have to prove this?

[garybeck]

37. i agree

all that matters is the information at this point. we need it, regardless of where it comes from. If it's true, that's what matters.

I don't doubt the bad things people have said about her.

But it is also true that she has uncovered true and useful information and evidence that is vital to our cause.

Would we know about the trashed log tapes in Volusia county if it weren't for BBV?

Question -- if BBV finds a smoking gun, will all these Bev haters tell us to not publicize it?

I don't think it's fair that people are making us choose between Andy and Bev. We just want fair elections. We love Andy, we want him to be healthy. We shouldn't have to justify reading an article Bev wrote, and feel defensive, and feel like we're hurting Andy just by reading or discussing an article.

Andy, we love you.

I hate what Bev did to you. I also hate what Rove, Diebold, and ESS did to this country on 11/2. I need to look for answers EVERYWHERE.

I have a suggestion - if Bev has your computer and owes you money, you should sue her. If it's your computer it should be pretty easy to prove in a court. Small claims court is easy to do and it doesn't cost anything. I've done it twice and it's worth it. You should at least get your computer back.

[NC Beach Girl]

39. let me try to explain...

Would we know about the trashed log tapes in Volusia county if it weren't for BBV?

I'm not sure that "knowing about" these log tapes is all that relevant since Ms. Harris never chose to actually share any evidence of their existence with anyone.

Can you provide a link to the picture of them, the video, a scan...anything? Can you tell me what exactly these tapes show? Can you show me where she used this evidence she claims to have to do anything? If she hasn't, can you tell me why she is not doing anything with proof of election fraud in her possession?

Also, you're really under a misconception if you think this distrust of Bev is all about Andy. What Bev did to Andy is nasty and horrible, but it is nothing that she didn't do to MANY people before him (Roxanne Jekot, David Allen, Ida Briggs, David Dill just to name a few). What this is about, is Bev and her incomprehensible ability to convince people that even though she has been blatantly dishonest and has inexplicably not done any of the election audits that she raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to do, she still deserves our attention, support, or suspension of disbelief now that she has decided to start updating her long ignored website again.

[Stephanie]

40. Excellent summary of the problem!

It's not about Andy - it's about Bev's long history of empty promises and burned bridges.

[mopinko]

41. and about the harm that a nut case like this does

to the whole movement. she is not harmless. she is hurting the integrity of us all.

[KoKo]

61. Yes......we've been waiting for those "audits" and the new video

an awfully long time to believe there's anything credible forthcoming.

I stand by my comments that her early work with DU'ers and David Allen, etc. were a force that brought attention to BBVoting/DRE's and the need for Verified Paper Ballot.

What came after that was horribly hurtful to all those who supported her. I wonder if more effort would have been made about Florida Redux if Bev hadn't claimed she had it all covered and had grandstanded about it all. In the end Volusia turned out to be nothing and one does wonder if she's concocted a new scheme to cover what she "hasn't' been working on for the last long months.

[ray of light]

21. Hey everyone, we're on the SAME TEAM! So let's chill, ok?

Andy, hope you're resting easy.

[Boredtodeath]

22. That's not possible

Bev Harris is not a team player. SHE is the one who continues to bash the current team when they get to much acknowledgement for their work (which she takes credit for).

Bev Harris is in this for one thing - Bev Harris. You can't make a team out of "Bev" and "Harris."

[ray of light]

25. I'm sorry about that, but I still hope all of us can find a way for Peace.

[Tesla]

27. Kids kids kids.....

I'm sending in John!!!!

[ray of light]

30. lol

[kster]

34. kick.nt

[snot]

52. KICK