I just spoke to a Florida official who said Kerry's Florida attorneys are

[mzmolly]

poo-pooing any thing "fraud" related. The response she got was "C'mon, 300,000 votes?! No way." She attempted to tell them that the machines may have been rigged, but to no avail.

So you see people, this is what KERRY is being advised. He's being told "fraud, no way!"

Of course I pointed out that "voter confidence" was the key issue, and she heartily agreed.

She is discouraged but suggested we pursue Ohio because "Florida is too Right Wing these days." She said we won't get anywhere in Florida. She also said Floridian Democrats in any sort of power are quite rare and could become even more so if they don't tread very carefully.

I can't say who I spoke with because the conversation was in confidence.

Just an FYI. It seems Southern Democrats fear for their livelyhood with the way things are going. :(

[rabid_nerd]

1. I too would advise dropping Florida

if only to focus.

[Middle Finger Bush]

18. drop florida? not a chance

you see how PURPLE that state is

[Fortunato]

44. focus

Yeah, with limited resources, it's best to pick your state offering largest chance for success and focus there -- you only have to prove one case (Florida or Ohio) where a state turned illegitimately and would have bought Kerry the election.

Sort of like what Nader is doing in NH: One small easily verifiable case of potential problems with the equipment, and suddenly the field opens up for further exploration.

[newyawker99]

51. Hi Fortunato!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cronus Protagonist]

55. Cut out half the fraud just to "focus"?

What are you on? And please quit soon, your comments are poison to the cause.

[LisaL]

2. That Florida official must be badly misinformed.

OH's governor is not democrat. OH's secretary of state is not democrat.
They are republicans. Nobody is going to be "freindly" in OH.
:eyes:

[mzmolly]

11. So much for that idea. I knew the Secretary of State was a R but

*sigh* guess that explains why they felt confident stealing those states.

[liberal N proud]

3. Heads up The Ohio Gov is republican

As well as the secratary of state kenny blackwell

[whirlygigspin]

16. Typical

they don't want to hear it.

--stop looking for the Kerry team to do anything-- they don't understand BBV and they are too arrogant to ask.

They will not help.

forget the Kerry team.

[buff2]

4. Ohio's Governor is a REPUKE

In fact,the repukes are in the majority here. The evil demons have it all.....EVERYWHERE. :puke:

[mzmolly]

Woah, guess were shit outta luck.

LOL

[kittenpants]

21. he's also a huge goober

[Ruby Romaine]

5. Huh?- the Cam Kerry email was a hoax -Ohio gov a Dem-since when?

Taft a Democrat?

[mzmolly]

12. I think the email address was correct.

:shrug:

I know that she was mistaken about the Ohio Governor. Perhaps she was thinkin of Kucinich ;)

[farmbo]

6. Sorry...Ohio Governor Taft...is a Repub

And will be of no help to a recount effort.

[Straight Shooter]

7. Apparently 300,000 is too big a number for her

300,000 is child's play for someone rigging an election. With people like her in charge, no wonder Rove is stealing candy from the babies.

May we please put the adults in charge now?

Send her to the presidential election and results thread, there are some things happening there.

[Chimpanzee]

19. If they are rigged (not real votes) and can be proven

then it doesn't matter if it's 300,000 or 300,000,000.

[jjanpundt]

8. I'm at the point where I don't care what Kerry's people

advise. We need to clean up the voting issue in order to have any sort of "free" elections in the future.

[Chimpanzee]

29. I wonder if the pissant will thank us if we get Ohio overturned

[merh]

9. Maybe she meant New Mexico

:shrug:

[baldguy]

10. The number of votes ahead or behind they think they are is irrelevent.

The point is THE VOTES NEED TO BE COUNTED FAIRLY!

Just "good enough" isn't good enough. When they say "every vote will be counted", that's what they ought to mean!

[hlthe2b]

13. can you at least convey how "high up" this "official" might be AND

how close to the election process?

[mzmolly]

14. She said she had to be cautious but ... I will say she is

an assistant to a top elected official who was assigned this issue.

[mary195149]

15. We can't give up

[newyawker99]

52. Hi mary195149!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Pallas180]

47. Her name didnt happen to be Wendy, did it?

.

[BeFree]

17. Fear?

Hell, if we don't fix it now, they will all go down! That is except for the sniveling two-timers who relly are republicans at heart. I know whereof I speak. The leading Dems in Florida, most of them, are sniveling two-timing pukes at heart. When Lawton Chiles passed on, it was the last of the Dems with a backbone.

Get back on the horn with that person and tell her to look at DU- the last of the real Democrats, and the beginning of the new!

[mzmolly]

20. He he. I sent her mucho info ... hope she'll do something with it.

I think I'll refer her here too!

:hi:

[pointsoflight]

22. Doesn't matter if it's fraud or not....

Also doesn't matter if there are enough problems out there to overturn the election or not.

Even if someone is of the belief that there wasn't fraud, or that it wasn't large enough to matter, we need to be more forward-thinking on this issue. The voting irregularities MUST be exposed, no matter what the cause, because it's important that everyone know how poor our current system is and how susceptible it is to fraud, whether one believes its already happened or not.

Part of getting beyond this election and looking forward is making sure that our election process is more secure and the election results can be verified, not only to ensure fair elections, but also so the the electorate doesn't feel disenfranchised and can be confident in the results.

Every American should want this.

[mzmolly]

24. Couldn't agree more. I made these same points to her and to Senator

Kerry's office. I suggest we all contact Senator Kerry with our concerns.

[quiet.american]

23. Where's the Swift Vet in John?

What about "turning the boat into the fight?" Sure, it might be easy enough for me to say, but why am I sensing Kerry is actually more relieved it's all over than anything else?

[Chimpanzee]

30. He said 'turning the boat into the fire'

Right now he has his feet up in a comfortable chair next to his fireplace smoking a fine cigar, drinking cognac, and dreaming about 2008. Get outa the fucking chair or there will be no 2008 for you or ayone else non-fascist!!

[info being]

25. Fuck the Democrats

They shall never receive my vote again. Green all the way.

[mzmolly]

26. I understand your pain, but as the gal I spoke with said "They wan't us

discouraged" it's a win/win for them.

Steal an election and not have to steal anymore because we've lost faith.

[info being]

39. It is a win win for them because they always win.

[Pallas180]

48. Is that right? So she's helping discouraging????

fuck that my dear.

[mzmolly]

50. No, she told me the truth .

I'm encouraged she agreed with us.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Ask that Florida lawyer one question for me:

Does she personally know about lawsuit settlement agreements that have been hushed with confidentiality clauses, and if so, how would she feel about slapping down someone else's doubt in the election process if all the public knew what she knew?

[Changenow]

28. THIS IS NOT ABOUT A KERRY VICTORY!

Why the f**k can't they understand that!

This is about the integrity of the system. The public must have confidence that their votes are counted.

[Chimpanzee]

31. and if by trying to preserve what's left happens to elect Kerry

so be it. If it shows beyond doubt that Bush won, so be it. But dammit, can we just find out the truth??

[mzmolly]

33. That's exactly right. All we want is "the truth." I can live with the

legitimate outcome.

[nolabels]

41. Yea, if the democratic party big wigs fail to support their party.........

I am sure many will get together and kick them out. If you are not brave enough to stand up for your vote, you should not vote. Truth comes first, what you do with it comes later.

[Ducks In A Row]

32. Well if that's the kind of person advising kerry, it's no wonder

he conceded.

what a bunch of morons.

[hippiechick]

34. 'quite rare and could become even moreso' ?

Sounds like a veiled threat. I think I might consider moving to the heart of fundie land and running for office, just to piss her off.
Bitch.


:hippie:

[mzmolly]

35. She's cool. She and I paraphrased to protect the identity of who I spoke

to.

What she said was the person she works for, is one of the few left in his position in the South and we need him in said position.

:hi:

[Helga Scow Stern]

36. Got that same sinking feeling from looking at the Ohio Dems page...

but I think it is mistaken for any of them, from Ohio or Florida, or any place else, or Kerry, to think anything can continue without dealing with this issue. And if not now when?
I almost feel like we should sue them for breach of faith if they don't take up the matter. Forgive me if that is too strong to be saying now.

[mzmolly]

37. I agree with you actually.

It's dangerous for them to ignore this.

[crispini]

38. Send her to Olbermann's blog.

He is part of the MSM, not one of the internet people, and his analysis is quite thoughtful.

[Expat_Kristen]

40. Man are they unprofessional at the Florida DOS

Check out this email thread. I started by emailing them through their website about discrepencies in the total # of votes casted for a presidential candidate in FL, and the total # of voters. Start from the bottom and read up:


Ms. *****:

Below is the response provided by Ms. Janet Modrow, who handles the website to which you referred in your inquiry.

I think that it is also important to clarify that the numbers currently on the website are based upon unofficial reports from the Supervisors of Elections. The official and final numbers from the counties are not statutorily due until 5 p.m. on Saturday, November 13, 2004. Therefore, the numbers are still subject to change. Between election night and the final deadline they have to process precinct ballots, early voting ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots and overseas ballots. I hope that this information is helpful.

Sharon D. Larson
Assistant General Counsel
Florida Department of State




Sharon,

Here is how I would respond. I'll let you pass it on for review and dissemination.

Thanks,
Janet


Dear Ms. ******,

Not all of the turnout figures from the county canvasses were entered into our database. However that has been rectified, and you will find the updated figures on our website. I hope this hasn't caused too much confusion.

If you have any further concerns or questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.


Email 3 - Confusion over who should handle my email


-----Original Message-----
From: Larson, Sharon
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:45 AM
To: Modrow, Janet
Subject: FW: Voter Fraud - Questions/Comments from Website

Janet:

I think that this is a question for you to handle. Thanks.

Sharon D. Larson
Assistant General Counsel
Florida Department of State

Email 2 - Someone forwarded my email to Sharon Larson

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin, Cara
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:10 AM
To: Larson, Sharon
Subject: FW: Voter Fraud - Questions/Comments from Website


Email 1

-----Original Message-----
From: kristen.*****@******.com
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:07 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Voter Fraud - Questions/Comments from Website

Email Address: kristen.*****@******.com

Topic: Voter Fraud

Questions or Comments:
I'm just wondering about the County-by-county reporting status as displayed
on the DOS website at http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/20041102_STAT.html

As of the 11/05 update, with 100% precincts reporting the problem is as
follows:

In many counties, such as Miami-Dade and Palm Beach, the total number of
votes cast for presidential candidates (combined) exceeds the number listed
in the voter turnout column for that state. Why the discrepency? Is it that
absentee ballots are not included in the turnout number?

Because of the concern of election fraud, I think it's important to explain
this as soon as possible - so that people don't jump to false conclusions.
As it stands now it looks like Miami-Dade reported +51, 979 votes for
presidential candidates than actually voted in the election in that county.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Regards,
Kristen *****

[CHIMO]

42. A Question

On the statement about 300,000 votes.
From the spread sheet on Florida that has been listed here many times it shows Kerry with 47% of the vote.
The difference between 50% and 47% is 213,961 votes.
I make it a difference of 3%. Doesn't seem like a landslide.

[4dsc]

43. This election is not over!!

Whether is Ohio or Florida, people everywhere who will stand up for democracy must never give up the fight!!!

KERRY WON damn it and I really pissed at all these defeatist democrats that plague the party!!

[sce56]

45. Me TOO

Here is the leter I sent in response to the one I recived back from my senator


The Honorable Senator Feinstein

Thank you for your prompt response on my concerns over the possible
fraudulent election we had last week. But I feel your response was
inadequate as we had an election that was quite out of touch with reality and now we have the GOP calling for an abandonment of exit polls since right now they are the best indicator we have that the election was not fair and square! I have now come across a video clip that shows a member of congress a republican talking about the election being over hear what he had to say, I know it is undated but I feel it good enough to get you to start asking questions as to what really happened last Tuesday Nov 2nd.

Here is a quicktime mov where Pete King, Rep NY states
"it is already over the election is over we won" how do you know that? "it's all over but the counting... and we'll take care of the counting"
see the movie clip here
http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/iMovieTheater256.html

I would point out that even MSNBC thinks there is something funny with the election especialy in Ohio see the following from
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6442857

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about
tomorrow? Additional reports every minute. So six congressmen write
demanding an immediate investigation. Did the new voting technology tamper
with last week's presidential election? Why did an Ohio county lock down
its vote count, claiming it was for homeland security purposes? Why did 29
heavily Democratic Florida counties, with optical ballot scanners, wind up
voting heavily Republican? Full coverage ahead.

Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN, there is a small but blood curdling group
of reports of voting irregularities and possible fraud principally in Ohio
and Florida. That group of reports is moving from that end of the spectrum
in which believers are likely to be wearing hats made out of Reynolds wrap
to the other end of the spectrum in which the believers are going to the
general accounting office and perhaps the FBI. The mainstream newspaper,
the "Cincinnati Inquirer," reports that officials in Warren County, Ohio,
that's 20 miles northeast of Cincinnati, locked down their administration
building last Tuesday night to prevent anybody from observing the vote
count. Moreover the secrecy, unique among all 88 of Ohio's counties, was
attributed to concerns about potential terrorism.

The newspaper reports that Warren County emergency services director Frank
Young had recommended the walling off of the vote count based on information
received from the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI Mr. Young did
not explain whether al Qaeda might have been planning to hit Caesar Creek
State Park in Waynesville or the King's Island Amusement Park. After some
negotiating, reporters were finally admitted to that building around
midnight. They were kept in the lobby. The counting went on unobserved two
floors above them. Warren County's polls were among the last in Ohio to
close, thus among the last to report and thus among the votes that clinched
the state and the election for President Bush. A local television news
director called the homeland security explanation a, quote, " red herring."

County prosecutor Rachel Hutzel told the newspaper that the Warren County
commissioners were, quote, "within their rights to lock the building down,
even though no other Ohio county did so because having photographers or
reporters present could have interfered with the count." You bet, Rachel.

Ohio, whose 20 electoral votes were based on a margin of 2 percent in the
vote, has other problems tonight. The state reports 92,000 presidential
votes did not count. Ranging from votes improperly cast to votes improperly
counted. And in Cuyahoga County, that is greater Cleveland, the official
records of 29 different voting precincts show more votes than registered
voters to a total of 93,000 extra votes in that county alone.

Despite the fact that he state's that the Tin Foil factor might be in play,
he is seriously reporting this story one of the very few in the Quote
Mainstream Media to do so.



As I said in my first email to you I don't want to see another challenge in
the electoral college be unsupported by our democratic senators as it stands
right now if there is not an immediate and true investigation into those
allegations of Election Tampering then I will indeed along with many others
leave the Democratic Party as the Democrats apparently will just play dead
and roll over when the republicans tell them to!

Sincerely
xxxx
USA, RET

----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:49 AM
Subject: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message





November 9, 2004


Mr. xxxx
xxxxxx California 90xxx


Dear Mr. Ramirez:

Thank you for writing to me about voter confidence in elections. I
appreciate hearing from you and welcome the opportunity to respond.

A number of bills, which address the issue of voter confidence,
have been introduced in the 108th Congress. Some bills, such as H.R. 2239
and S. 1980, would require voting machines to produce a permanent paper
record so that voters can check the accuracy of their votes and officials
can
conduct a manual audit or recount should either one be necessary. I am
currently reviewing a number of legislative options that have been
proposed to ensure an accurate and reliable voting system. As it became
clear in recent elections, inadequate voting mechanisms can be detrimental
to the integrity of our electoral process.

To address voting concerns, such as voter ballot verification and
others, I supported the AHelp America Vote Act", which became law
December 29, 2002. Among other reforms, the AHelp America Vote Act@
created a new federal Elections Assistance Commission to ensure that all
voting technologies are tested for accuracy and to provide procedures for
decertification of a technology that is subsequently found to be inadequate.
The Commission is also responsible for distributing federal grants to state
electorates for improvement of their electoral processes. States still
maintain control over election administration, but the law introduces a
degree of federal oversight and assistance.

Again, thank you for writing. I hope you will continue to keep me
informed on issues of importance to you. Should you have any further
questions or comments, please feel free to call my Washington, D.C. staff
at [phone].

Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

http://feinstein.senate.gov

Further information about my position on issues of concern to California and
the
Nation are available at my website http://feinstein.senate.gov. You can
also
receive electronic e-mail updates by subscribing to my e-mail list at
http://feinstein.senate.gov/issue.html.

[Pallas180]

46. Give me her name, I'll let her know what a jackass she is. there

are florida districts that were counted as 900 voters going in,only
400 votes came out...

whaqt happenedned to the other 500 votes?


And you should let us know who it is, no one in Florida should go to
a lawyer like that.

[mzmolly]

49. I don't know who the attorney is, I didn't ask. But I sent info to the

person I spoke to and asked her to pass it on.

:hi:

[ChiciB1]

53. I Say...

Keep on keeping on!! My daughter called the officials too and they said the same thing, but what I think everyone is missing here is that this is what is being SAID!!

It DOES NOT mean there wasn't FRAUD. His attorney's are being advised of that and Bob Graham and Bill Nelson's office said the same thing. However, Bill Nelson also came out with a statement saying that he THOUGHT Mel Martinez was a "great guy" and he's known him for 20 years.

We NEED to keep the pressure ON!! No matter whether they change the vote or not! It's about DEMOCRATS NOW!! I live in Florida and I'm SICK of this CRAP!! Also, got info about a PROTEST Rally on Inauguration Day, but personally I THINK it should be the SUNDAY before because I don't really want to be rubbing elbows with the REPUKES all over D.C. I'm going no matter what!

[Carl Brennan]

54. This could be and IMHO is just gamesmanship. The lawyers don't

want the focus switched to them and they are still waiting for the facts so they don't look like they are jumping the gun.