Will investigating Ohio make Donna Brazile a better person?

[Dancing_Dave]

She'll really have to get out of the Washington spin zone and listen to some disenfranchized Democrats!

It's been widely noted that Donna does not seem to have much to bring to help understand election fraud. But Dean may be really counting on some other people on the panel to actually do the substantive research. Maybe he is putting her in more for her own enlightenment--and then through her reach some other establishment Democrats who still just don't quite get it.

Part of the problem is that Washington DC has become the hardest place on Earth to see reality from--it seems like there's some kind of heavy spin zone there, and people trapped in the evil force field just can't see through it most of the time. Whenever I've gone there recently, I find the whole damn atmosphere to oppressive to put up with for more than a couple days.

[autorank]

1. Let's hope for the best. Dean chose her, let's see how it goes.

[madfloridian]

2. Terry chose her.

This committee was formed last year, started work in January.

From Dec. 2004

http://www.democrats.org/news/200412060007.html

[autorank]

4. Oh, shit! Well, now this really sucks. Thanks for the update.

I think I'll go play in the freeway.

[Wilms]

7. Be careful. You might not be as lucky as "Snoopy".

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/nyregion/11dog.html

[autorank]

9. Oh, Lard, this dog survived the Major Degan...thanks for the warning!

:hi:

[Wilms]

10. You know that road, eh?

:eyes:

[autorank]

11. Lived in NYC in the '70's. It's a highway, starts in Bronx, passes

Yankee stadium and and an Italian bread factory. It's a scary road w/all those NY drivers. That dog has some good Karma!

[Wilms]

12. 70's & *80's for me.

But just got to thinkin', if it was rush hour, those cars were moving at 3mph.

Which, like you say, is good CAR-ma.

[autorank]

13. HAHAHA...yeah, my ma the CAR...3mph, easy for the squigy guys!

[madfloridian]

3. In fact it was formed before that. Pics of them in 2002

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/parties/dnc100802.html

[Dancing_Dave]

6. Oops!

Thanks for setting me straight on that detail.

I was aware that a number of the panel memembers had been involved in studying election issues for a few years now--or at least that's what they were SUPPOSED to be doing!

But did Dean really have nothing to do with putting them on this task in Ohio? Or at least putting in some presure for them to really DO something?

It seemed like nothing was happening at all in those "mainstream" circles until Dean got up in the DNC...and in all fairness, Dean HAS been interested in this issue for quite a while now, even if hasn't found the time to become the most impressive expert on the subject. For instance, he tried to spread some awareness of black-box voting issues even BEFORE the election.

[freeroo]

14. McAuliff announced investigation before Dean took over

The list of names was published after Dean took office, but the story said the investigation had been going on since January 2005.

The Voting Rights Institute (VRI) of the DNC was started a few years ago, with Brazile in charge. As I recall, they had some sort of election hotline in 2004.

It sounded more like hot air until Dean took over.

[applegrove]

5. Again - we cannot afford to eat our own.

[Wilms]

8. I agree with AppleGrove.

Don't eat our own.

If they're that bad, you'll only get food poisoning.

Kick them to the curb, instead. :grr:

[applegrove]

15. If you become a small tent party after being a big one for 200 years...

then they have won. Your grandchildren will be attending Karl Rove Public. We have to stick to our guns and not change who we are just because they try to teach us to act like mobs or because they coerce us in other ways to give up being who we are.

[Wilms]

16. We're not the ones who've destroyed a large tent.

Some Dems have just erected country clubs.

Some of us are tiring of mowing the golf course.

No one said to act like "mobs". The idea is rid the party DINO's.

[applegrove]

17. But it is only a few people who are deciding what a DINO is. You know

what they say about a few people deciding what is best for the whole... fascists!! Seriously - we all have allot to learn. We will never be as wealthy as we were in North America in this next Century. The 'having everything in the world go USA way is over'. So we will be poorer and we have choices to make. We cannot afford all that we had. Things have to level out. Unless you want to start 100000 % inflation of Chinese wages where their government prints money out of all the trees left on the planet in one week...we have to accept that prices will fall or not continually rise in USA.

We have no choice. And life will be riskier. And how we adapt to these changes matters a great deal. And that the elites do not get to build exactly how this 'new' world works is very important.

I do find that many of the people who use the word DINO are actually Utopians and think we have a choice about closing borders and other such things. We have no choice and we will never have the world focused on fulfilling every whim of the USA.

Those days are over. And a hawk on Israel... I mean is the person wrong when they want a sturdy Israel as opposed to one that may find peace but then would have to fight a new round of wars in 5 years?

There are many questions that we have to deal with and think about and learn & study. And nobody has all the answers (if they do they are Utopian). So we need to look ahead with our system of values and see what will work best to keep our needs and the needs of human beings front and centre. We need to keep corporations from escaping their fate as tools of human beings. Markets need to be used as efficient means for human beings to teach each other things ... markets are not just for corporations. And efficiency sometimes produces the absolute wrong result. We have allot of work to do. And being fiscally conservative at a time when we know the USA will not be doing amazing (in the next 50 years) is a smart thing to think. So I do not think that DINOs are as out of touch as you do.

[Wilms]

19. Once again we agree...

You said,

"We need to keep corporations from escaping their fate as tools of human beings. Markets need to be used as efficient means for human beings to teach each other things ... markets are not just for corporations. And efficiency sometimes produces the absolute wrong result. We have allot of work to do. And being fiscally conservative at a time when we know the USA will not be doing amazing (in the next 50 years) is a smart thing to think."

I said,

"Kick the DINO's to the curb.

Put words in others mouths and call it "utopian" if that's what helps you find comfort with the balance of your arguments.

[applegrove]

22. I guess I do not understand what you mean by "curb". n/t

[applegrove]

18. In case you do not know the neocons are really neoliberals. They

are middle of the road liberals. And their plan is to get into power forever by stealing a few policies from the right and a few from the liberal left and sit there forever in the middle.

So go ahead and kick the DINOs out. You will never see power again in your generation and (the beauty of this) the people in power will not represent one fucking group of regular people though they will get almost all the votes.

How can that happen? You just make up a new party that gets rid of the stupid & narrow extremists and stubborn people form each end of the other two parties and you plant yourself in the middle. You shut up racists on the right by killing the old republican party,... then in your second term you get the Liberal party to destroy itself by getting the Utopians idealists on the left, the ones who think that you can be in Washington in this day and age and easily vote what is in your heart every single day,... you get those people to attack their own centre and eject the 'centrists' from the Democratic party. So the DINOs will have nowhere to go but to the neocons.

So you will be left on one side, and Pat Buchanan on the other. And neither of you will be able to get enough votes to ever get into power. It is a power grab alright: the elites decided they didn't like democracy and decided to end the two party state. Now all government business can be done behind doors by men in three piece suits just like it used to be. Once it ends .... it will be gone and there will be no fixing it.

They set you up! Are you going to fall into it?

[Wilms]

20. There's nothing liberal about fascists and criminals.

Beyond that, I don't find your paradigm more than a curiosity.

[applegrove]

21. I agree they are fascists and nutbombs. And they also place themselves

firmly in the middle of the political spectrum and take many, many liberal issues as their own.

And they use the tools of the sociopath.