Adviser Is Being Paid to Lobby the (NY) Legislature Against Paper Ballots

[Wilms]

This article is as confusing as Election Reform, but it's good to note the millions that are probably being spent undermining Paper Ballots.


Ferrer Adviser Is Being Paid to Lobby the Legislature Against Paper Ballots

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
New York Times
March 10, 2005

The chief political adviser for Fernando Ferrer accepted a $120,000-a-year contract last month to lobby state lawmakers to block passage of legislation in New York that would require voters to use paper ballots.

-snip-

Businesses, like the company Mr. Ramirez is representing, are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to push the State Legislature to allow for computer-based touch-screen voting machines. Other groups, like the League of Women Voters of New York State, have called for using optical scanners, which would require voters to first fill out a paper ballot, a system that would be less lucrative for the manufacturers of these products.

In his contract with VoteHere, Mr. Ramirez is called on to help persuade state lawmakers to push for legislation "requiring or permitting receipt-based verification," which would allow for voting machines that operate like a bank A.T.M., providing a receipt after a transaction.

Mr. Ferrer's spokesman, Chad Clanton, said yesterday that Mr. Ferrer wanted to see "paper backup on every vote cast on electronic voting machines," though he did not say whether that meant a ballot or a receipt.

-snip/more-

http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=4971

VoteHere Website:

http://www.votehere.net/default.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I am going to crosspost this to the New York forum so people who

might consider voitng for Ferrer for mayor will be aware of this.

[Bill Bored]

2. Great, another Democrat for unverifiable voting!

There is no votin' machine bill in NY that I know of that doesn't include voter-verified paper. Two out of the three I know of also require 3% random audits, more than any federal bill, however the final version has not yet been passed.

Those who want to fight for paper ballots for NY should contact the following legislators. This is crucial right now as the final bill will be passed in the next few weeks. There are a few gray areas, but in general what we have so far is pretty good. Don't let these lobbyists screw it up! In fact, tell these legislators to PROHIBIT DREs except for use by disabled voters (that's ONE machine per polling place, NOT PER PRECINCT!) and the DREs MUST have voter-verified paper.

Assembly
Keith Wright , Chair, Assembly Election Law Committee
Room 749 LOB
Albany, NY 12248
518-455-4793
FAX: [phone]

RoAnn Destito
Room 621 LOB
Albany, NY 12248
518-455-5454
FAX: [phone]

Kevin Cahill
Room 557 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12248
518-455-4436
FAX: [phone]

Helene Weinstein
Room 831 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12248
518-455-5462
FAX: [phone]

Fred W. Thiele Jr.
Room 550 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12248
518-455-5997

Senate
John J. Flanagan, Chair, Senate Elections Committee
Room 817 LOB
Albany, NY 12247
518-455-2071
518-426-6904 FAX

Nicholas Spano
Room 509 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
518-455-2231
FAX: [phone]

Serphin Maltese
Room 413 Capitol
Albany, NY 12247
518-455-3281
FAX: [phone]

Martin Dilan
606 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247
518-455-2177

George Maziarz
915 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[Bill Bored]

3. kick nt

[berniew1]

4. New York had huge glitches/problems in 2004 election, esp. NYCity

http://www.flcv.com/newyork.html

But it appears there might have been some Dem fraud also in one race-
Congressional or Legislative. Under investigation where Dem won and Repubs are suggesting fraud.

There has been some suggested Dem fraud in past in N Y.

[JunkYardDogg]

5. New Yorkers- Follow what Calif Progressives are Doing

Start your campaign NOW
Do not wait until they are successful
Somebody has to take a lead
Work with all the DFA and PDA groups throughout N.Y.
Go to as many Local Dem Club meetings as you can, speak out on the need for VVPAT-Voter Verified Paper AUDIT Trails
get to speak at the Dem County Central Committee meetings
Start a letter writing campaign to all the Dem Elected Officials and Board of Supervisors in each county
Start creating a Consciousness and awareness on the subject.
Lay a Foundation.
Stop the Lobbyist in his tracks

refer to these posts for guidance and ideas

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=336599&mesg_id=336599

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x341078

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x341621

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x342406

[Bill Bored]

6. Both the Senate and Assembly bills require the audit trails but we want:

Paper Ballots, Optically Scanned, Counted at each Precinct.

The bills are here:

Assembly Version: (Mandates 1 DRE per polling place for the disabled)
<http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00005&sh=t>

Senate Version: (a bit vague about the use of actual paper ballots and DREs, but VVPAT required)
<http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S01809&sh=t>

Here's another Senate bill covering disabled voters (notably NOT mandating DREs):
<http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S01669&sh=t>

All these bills require voter-verified paper audit trails.
The devil is in the details:

The first two of the above have passed their respective houses and are in a conference committee to come up with the final version.

Both A5 and S1809 require random audits of 3% of machines in each jurisdiction.
BUT...
Who decides what to do in the event of a discrepancy? I'd like to see some MINIMUM requirement in the law. The way it stands now, it's the BOE who makes these regulations, or a court decides as part of an election contest.

When is the paper count actually used instead of the machine count? Only in case of a 100% hand audit. But it's not at all clear how you get one without an election challenge, and you have to convince a court of that. Good luck!

Unless the final version of the bills is different from the two that have already passed, voter-verified paper audit records will be a given. I can't see how any paperless DREs could be allowed at this point, but stranger things have happened in the presence of lobbyists I guess.

There is room for improvement in these bills though:

1. Demand paper ballots and precinct count optical scanners for all voters.

2. Limit use of DREs (IF ANY) to 1 per polling place, intended for use by the disabled, and mandate a 100% audit of all voter-verified paper audit records produced by these machines.

3. Require more auditing in the event of ANY discrepancy between the 3% random sample and the machine counts (Op Scans), until it can be determined with mathematical certainty that additional discrepancies would not affect the outcome of the election.

Anyone who cares about NY elections should write to the committee members in post #2 above, and also see nyvv.org and wheresthepaper.org for more information.

[JunkYardDogg]

7. Find out who is paying the Lobbyist

Bill
Do some research and find out if there is a N.Y. Version of the Freedom of Information Act and also there should be a Public Disclosure Filing Reg to show where Lobbyists are getting their funds.

Do a bit of Research on this
Actually, this info could be useful to us in Calif
Start recruiting others in N.Y. to help you I'm sure that there are a number of N.Y.ers here at DU,
Contact the DFA and PDA groups in N.Y., you will eventually find some people who are already doing Election Protection stuff

I just sent my letters out to DFA groups and I get some help from People already working on this.
Nobody is doing it for us
We gotta do it ourselves

[Bill Bored]

15. DFA was useless.

I never heard such negativism in my life.
If they're right we are in even deeper doo-doo than I thought.

If anyone can talk to these people, be my guest.

[JunkYardDogg]

16. I'll see what I can do

That is really terrible
We are getting tremendous support from DFA groups in Calif
they have knowledgeable people already active in this
I'll pass it along

[Bill Bored]

18. Thanks Dog!

All I asked them to do was post some stuff on their blog.

I got a whole song and dance about how only 3 guys in Albany will make a difference: the Gov, the Assembly Speaker and the Senate Leader.

SO WHAT?

If that's what they believe, they should ask their members to lobby those 3!!!

Instead I got no help at all.

The fact is there's a 10-person conference committee that can ban DREs in NYS by law tomorrow if they want to! After that, it's true that the Gov and the 2 house leaders can change things before the bill becomes law, but if DREs are already allowed when the committee's decision reaches their desk, it will be that much harder to stop them!

[rigel99]

8. Change from VVPAT to VVPB

Change your wording from VVPAT Paper Audit Trails to VVPaper Ballots.

We must count paper ballots in the precincts election night. Audits, and paper trails are not enough if the paper is not fully and completely counted.

If you need proof of DRE machine fraud and mistakes and corruption of local officials by Diebold, visit my website
www.countpaperballots.com and read the letters to Secretary of State / Diebold, KSU Kennesaw Center for Elections, it's all there how privatizations makes elections officials unaccountable to citizens and makes it impossible to do any kind of audit...

PLEASE, change your wording and try to understand the HUGE difference in paper trails and paper ballot wording..

visit this link if you want an excellent GEorgia written piece of legislation advocating counting paper abllots.... and modeled in California labeled the "Vote Count Protection Act"...
http://www.msongs.com/vvpb.htm

[Jo March]

12. VVPAT only if the voters also get VVPB

An audit is not acceptable in place of VVPB. Sorry, but for recounts, discrepancies, glitches, audits - the paper ballots can be legally used over the computer results.

An audit trail is great but it will only generate a report. At the end of the day if there is a question of legality of the vote, the VVPAT won't get you what you need. The VVPB should be the be-all, end-all, last word in any election.

VVPAT sounds nice but we need VVPB. Ask for what you want, as Andy Stephenson says, and you'll get it.

[JunkYardDogg]

9. Research your Election Laws and the N.Y. State Elections Dept

Bill and other N.Y.ers
You can learn a lot digging around their Dept website
That is how I found out about the Calif "Grandfather" clause
Plus you will want to build your campaign around the most favorable Election Protection Standards and Regs
I'll write more later
Keep building support contacts

[feelthebreeze]

10. No touch screens! VVPB...

Thanks for the update Wilms. I have made peace with the Paper Ballot Optical Scan approach, provided the Optical Scan is counted in precinct only. It is a solid approcach and one I am pushing to have passed. Are all you NY DUers behind this? Can we make a concerted effort to push for this as a group?

[Wilms]

11. Feel, where are you?

I'm a NY ex-pat, so I'm just here rooting for my alma-mater. :)

[feelthebreeze]

13. Wish you were here Wilms...

I am in the ever growing county of Rockland. Thanks again for the back up and will continue the fight.

[Wilms]

14. Spring Valley Senior High Grad, here!

Where are you?

[Wilms]

17. Couple of news items

Vote reform panel splits on devices
Democrats want one type of machine used statewide; Republicans want local boards to make the choice

By ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, Capitol bureau
First published: Tuesday, March 15, 2005

ALBANY -- A bipartisan committee trying to determine how New York will comply with the federal Help America Vote Act remains divided on key issues, including which new voting machines the state should buy.

The panel of five Republicans and five Democrats said Monday it had drafted language for a voter complaint process, but arrived at no new deals.

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=341991&category=STATE&newsdate=3/15/2005


03/16/05

Lawmakers consider changes to voting machines

By Tom Grace

Cooperstown News Bureau

State legislators are trying to resolve how New York will comply with the federal Help America Vote Act, but they have not decided which kind of voting machine residents will use.

The state Senate and Assembly have passed different bills pertaining to HAVA, and a joint conference committee is trying to bridge the gap between them, said state Sen. John Flanagan, R-Northport, chairman of the state Senate Elections Committee.

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2005/03/16/law5.html