The Dems Just Don't Get it -- Why We Need Recounts Regardless

[BayStateBoy]

of whether they surmise that the votes are there for an election reversal. Bottom line, they are just guessing. You never know for certain what is there unless you have to recount. Granted, those precincts with electronic voting and no paper can't be audited, but by my calculation most of Ohio is paper and at least 1/2 or more of FL was opticscan machines with paper ballots. What we can't do in FL is go into the biggest Democratic counties trolling for extra votes because most have touchscreens and no paper. But I think Chimpie screwed us in the optiscan counties.


1. The soul of Democracy is the truth. We need to validate the results irrespective of outcome especially with so many smoking guns.

2. If we don't legally challenge, the doors will be flung wide open to massive fraud in the future because the Repugs will know that they have a free ride. We will have promoted fraud. DNC=DOA.

3. It's a matter of honor. Our candidates said that every vote would be counted. Unless the Smutboat Vets were correct, John Kerry and the DNC needs to step up to the plate and get the votes recounted.

4. Bush may well have won OH but I doubt he won FL. Doing a recount regardless of the results will unlikely alienate those that voted for Kerry-Edwards, and those others are lost souls most of them anyway.

5. We can link the recounts to some sort of "values" or moral stand. It's the Democratic way; after all the history of voting in America is the history of recounts (and rigged elections). Also, since tampering with a federal election is a felony we need to take the law and order stand. With a little imagination, it could be done.

6. Irrespective of the final voting tallies, we would gather ammunition to go forward to try to eradicate those voting methods that leave no paper trail. Great way to turn the spotlight on that problem.

7. Of course it will create "controversy," but the anger is already building and we owe it to 55 million+ Americans. I think Chimpie's popular vote plurality is an Electoral WMD and this is the way to prove it.

[Timefortruth]

1. ABSOLUTELY!

This is no longer about winning it is about fair elections, period.

[HEAVYHEART]

2. EXACTLY.

[AtlantaBob]

3. We audit everything else, why not elections?

[Chomp]

6. I can't really understand...

...why Kerry didn't make this very point in his concession speech.

To have promised that every vote would be counted, even while conceding, would have simultaneously shown respect for his support and also kept his options open.

What's more, he wouldn't have sounded ungracious or unPresidential in taking this position (as he would have done if he'd straight-out called foul). He could have had his cake and eaten it with this approach, in my opinion.

Perhaps he feared getting people's hopes up whilst knowing in his bones that the game was up?

[newyawker99]

8. Hi AtlantaBob!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AtlantaBob]

12. Thanks! Good to be here!

Hear about it at SC.

[EST]

17. Yeah, welcome home!

It's good to be here.:party:

[glitch]

4. Agreed - we need a handcount of the optiscan ballots and a canvass of the

touchscreen ballots. Even if it's just randomly selected precincts we need to have some small assurance the machines are counting the votes properly.

I think the count is rigged and handcounting just a few precincts will open the investigation up.

I hope the DNC has statisticians as well as computer professionals working with their attorneys on this matter.

I know there are plenty of GOTV and Moveon volunteers who would be happy to canvass. Follow them up with attorneys, depositions and sworn affadavits.

[EndElectoral]

5. Well said...The lack of an audit trail prohibts Dem's from ever winning...

no matter who runs.

[BayStateBoy]

7. We Must Take A Stand Now or It's All Over Down the Road!

[bleever]

10. This is the whole ball game

as well as the park, the concessions, and the parking. If we don't make it clear that this election is a crime scene, and that this crime is still in progress as we are encouraged to "get over it, learn the lessons, and move on", then everything we've done right in the past couple of years to mobilize the forces who believe in the constitution's blueprint for a just society, and everything we do in the future, are just plain irrelevant.

Thanks to DUers for giving me a place to find hope, and fellow "bleevers" in standing up to the bullies who have stolen the government, and for whom democracy is inconvenient, outmoded, and "quaint". Rave on!

[Eloriel]

9. Yes, my attitude is exactly like it was in 2000

It matters less to me (at this point) WHO won, I just want the real winner, according to the wishes of the people. It's the legitimacy, stupid, to coin a phrase.

But this time, of course, you're absolutely right. If it's not stopped HERE, then ....

well, goodbye, Democracy. It was nice while it lasted.

[glugglug]

11. A RE-VOTE is needed in Florida

The idea that the 32,767 rollover bug (which if it's what I think it is will eat 65536 votes at a time by really rolling over to -32768 even if it doesn't display the '-' sign) would affect the ammendment votes, but not the presidential, senate, and house votes is silly. And the affected counties can't be recounted because they have no paper trail.

We need to DEMAND a RE-VOTE.

[cthrumatrix]

13. take the whole month of December to vote (pen & paper) and video

every single GD vote.

[Carolab]

15. RECOUNT USING WHAT?

Electronic machines?

[Jersey Devil]

14. Don't worry - we get it - this transcends Kerry

It may be the most important thing any of us ever do.

[glugglug]

16. the Chimp screwed us in the touchscreen counties.

More so than the op-scan counties. In fact, I'm not sure anything is even wrong with the op-scan counties. The vote shows the %democrat vote in Hillsboro & other high-population touchscreen counties decreased. This makes no sense at all. My parents live in Hillsborough, they have had a large influx of Canadians in the past 5 years. Don't think these guys are voting Repug.

The 32767 rollover (probably to -32768 and they hide the '-' sign) in the touchscreen counties screwed us BIGTIME. Not just in FL. Think about it, the only places where that is an issue are population centers, which are the most liberal areas of the country.

[MaggieSwanson]

18. Take a look at Dennis Kucinich's statements

at commondreams.org or in my post "Dennis Kucinich speaks out re: OH vote" and you will see that my favorite Dem gets it.