The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory

[Chimpanzee]

Was Kerry's early - play footsie - concession speech A FRAUD?? Anyone with half a brain knew the only way Bush could win the election is to steal it again. Kerry, for whatever you think of im, is no dummy. By conceding (which means nothing legally) he gets time for his 10,000 lawyers and others to collect information while the Bushites are celebrating, thinking it's all over. Why in the world would Nader ask for (and get) a recount in New Hampshire? Well, Kerry is still laying low, back in the senate, playing 'good boy', and the republicans are still trying to get over their week-long hangover. NH may be one of the easiest to prove voter fraud without raising too much suspicion from the boozed up republicans. Remember the exit-polling had Kerry up by 58-42 and he ended up winning by 50-49.

What if they are in the middle of a master plan to take our democracy back? Maybe they have more information, witnesses, that we don't even know about? If NH is proven to be FRAUD, then it will be much easier for recounts to be demanded in other states.

Am I crazy?? (actually I am - but is this crazy theory at all possible)???

Kerry said he would fight for us like he did in Vietnam. He said every vote would be counted. Could he go from hero to dog to the greatest American hero of our lifetime????

[grace0418]

1. Interesting theory

Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore. This seems just as plausible as any other scenario. I actually kinda hope it's true. I would love Kerry to bring down BushCo in a blaze of glory.

[CaOs]

2. I was leaving that as apossibilty

Rememer "I promis every vote WILL be counted"

[knowbody0]

3. it would be so out of character for him to turn his back

i believe this is a strategy (conceding) that he will launch a patriot truthout missle dead on.

[LisaL]

4. No, sorry.

New Hampshire's deadline to ask for a recount is gone. Nader didn't send a check on time, I am not sure there will be a recount. I presume the deadlines in other states are going to pass as well, if they haven't already. And Kerry apparently is happy to be back in senate. It's naive to keep on hoping he is doing anything.
:eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. It's not about "recount."

It's about fraud.

And, you know what the law says?

There's no statute of limitations on fraud.

Hold on. I think there's more to come.

[LisaL]

23. How are you going to prove fraud if you don't ask for a recount?

One way to prove fraud would be to recount the votes by hand, if needed, where there is a paper trail.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

54. Not really

There are lots of ways to allege - that's all you have to do, by the way, is ALLEGE with clear and convincing evidence - that there was fraud committed. Proving it is left for the courtroom, and that's a whole different process.

For instance, you can allege that fraud was committed if the total number of votes counted exceeds the number of registered voters in that precinct. That's called 'prima facie," and that gets your foot into the courthouse very nicely.

There are other ways, but, frankly, I'm not getting my hourly rate here, so I'll leave the rest to some other lawyer.

[JohnnyCougar]

21. ummmm...the recount is going through, last I heard

[LisaL]

37. Oberman said today Nader will not get a recount. I hope he is wrong.

But I know Nader didn't send a check, so there might not be a recount.

[Helga Scow Stern]

46. No, in another thread, it is happening still.

[lessthanjake]

5. No

Conceding gives bush's victory legitimacy. The news stations are talking about what bush's second term will be like. If he honestly thought there was fraud at the time he wouldnt have conceded.

[LisaL]

9. Please! They had to know about the possibility of fraud.

Kerry isn't a dummy. If he knew he was winning exit polls, why did he believed so fast he lost in actual numbers?
I think he just doesn't want or can't prove there was fraud, and doesn't want to fight.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. Wrong

Concession speeches are simply graceful gestures, with absolutely no legal meaning whatsoever.

Remember when Gore withdrew his concession to Fuckface in 2000?

[LisaL]

20. Gore did it the next day.

Gore was fighting extremely hard. It was all over TV. Is Kerry doing anything like this now? He couldn't concede fast enough.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. Gore made a mess of it

Or did you forget that little sad part of our history?

[LisaL]

38. At least he made a mess of it.

Now it's all very tidy and Bush got a mandate.
:eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

55. It's not at all tidy

and you have no way of knowing what's tidy and what's not.

Keep an open mind, please.

[oddtext]

6. this is exactly

what i hope for. we have a madman in the white house. we are threatened with interminable war, MIHOP, LIHOP, Wellstone, Carnahan, Gore, it's really sucky. if we feel so threatened, imagine how those with real stakes in this game feel. Kerry is a fighter. that's why he's the nominee (but he has some experience rolling over as well, so dunno).

[bullimiami]

7. chimp

i pray that you are a little crazy.......AND RIGHT!


im crazy too.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. You're not crazy

You're smart.

I keep posting here that IT IS NOT OVER UNTIL THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE MEETS ON THE FIRST MONDAY AFTER THE SECOND WEDNESDAY IN DECEMBER.

Read your Constitution, folks.

Concession speeches have no legal meaning.

So, in the more-than-a-month before December 13 arrives, there is a lot of investigative work that can be done. John Kerry has nothing to do with it until all the evidence of fraud - and it has to be good evidence, admissible in court, not just theories or hearsay - is presented to him, and then, old prosecutor that he is, he can do all sorts of things to make history.

I'm holding my breath and hoping my theory is right. It's far too soon to give up on Kerry.

Keep the faith, folks.

And, I'm an old leftie Constitutional lawyer, if that helps any.

[LisaL]

13. There are deadlines to ask for recounts.

Those deadlines are going, going, gone.
It's stupid to think Kerry is doing anything.
He send us all a thank you e-mail and is happy to be back in senate.

[peacetalksforall]

26. I think they're trying to say that there is a difference in a

simple recount request and a fraud. The other person said there is no statute of limitation on fraud. Both are difficult to prove.

The benefit of a NH recount approval, is that it could have a domino effect.

[txindy]

32. Ohio doesn't even START counting prov. & absentee ballots until 11/11

You can't ask for a recount there when they have yet to do the initial count. No problem with a deadline there.

Let's not create obstacles that don't exist, yet. We have more than enough hurdles to face, already. ;)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. Recounts aren't the first issue

Fraud is.

And there's no statute of limitations on fraud.

[whalerider55]

10. love the sentiment...

but my non-clinical judgement is... crazy.

whalerider55

[Child_Of_Isis]

11. I believe it to be true.

I also believe that a lot of republicans are in on it. And have been for a long time. I think the entire election was a setup.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. That's the one thing I have left to cling to. If he doesn't come through

I don't know what I will do.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help expose the election 2004 voter fraud!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Chimpanzee]

16. Don't throw away that tinfoil hat yet!

[LisaL]

18. I am sorry, people. I do not think any of us should get our hopes up.

Kerry isn't doing anything about this, IMO.
He has conceded, thanked us and told us to be happy that Bush is our president.
:mad:
Like I said, there are deadlines for recounts. How are they going to try and prove fraud if they don't even want to ask for a recount?
:eyes:

[noiretextatique]

51. there is still time, as someone already mentioned

provisional and absentee ballots are still being counted in some states, like Ohio, and no one can request a recount yet. i don't know what happened with nader in NH, but there is still Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico. giving up is premature, imho...there is still plenty of time.

[peacetalksforall]

17. Very probable...I'll go one...did CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX help the

By very probably, I mean...did CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX help the

count by:

1. agreeing to adjust the exit polls late in the day for specific counties to equalize them with a new vote outcome that would attempt to mask thefts?

or

2. simply accept verbal final counts from Rove that would or would not be substantiated later?

These people were desparate for a win and may have resorted to desparate alliances.

It was in the air - the only doubt about a Kerry win was the possibility that voters would once again be victims of thieves and embezzlers. Which was it?

Is it possible to subpoena the communications between the RPN Republican Propaganda Networks and Rove's team (as well as RPN and the Kerry team - to make it fair).

[goodboy]

19. that's my theory too. Great minds think alike I guess ;) (nt)

[troubleinwinter]

22. Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny, too.

[LisaL]

25. They probably have a better chance of asking for a recount

than Kerry.

[jmc777]

24. He won't give his fellow bonesman any trouble.

Either "the people" bring this to a head soon, or we'll all be back here in 2006/08 bitching about yet another stolen election.

[LisaL]

27. No doubt of that. By that time Diebolds will be everywhere, I

imagine.
:argh:

[txindy]

31. Right, just like he didn't cause them any trouble with IranContra or BCCI

:eyes: Please. Bush Sr., remember him? Didn't make out too well with IranContra. Junior didn't do well with BCCI. What, was that all a cover for twenty years later? :eyes:

[peacetalksforall]

28. Very probable...I'll go one up...did CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX help the

count by:

1. agreeing to adjust the exit polls late in the day for specific counties to equalize them with a new vote outcome that would attempt to mask thefts?

or

2. simply accept verbal final counts from Rove that would or would not be substantiated later?

These people were desparate for a win and may have resorted to desparate alliances.

It was in the air - the only doubt about a Kerry win was the possibility that voters would once again be victims of thieves and embezzlers. Which was it?

Is it possible to subpoena the communications between the RPN Republican Propaganda Networks and Rove's team (as well as RPN and the Kerry team - to make it fair).

[siliconefreak]

29. Lizzy

You've made your point, lizzy. Try to say something new rather than posting the same thing over and over again.

Nothing is impossible. Yes, this could all fizzle out. Or, it could become the biggest scandal since Watergate. Keep an open mind.

[txindy]

30. This has been my theory since two days after Election Day

It is nice to get more company. There are a number of us. :toast: Sit back, relax, enjoy history unfolding. It's one h*lluva ride. ;)

[Slit Skirt]

33. sounds like people are having a hard time coming to grips with

the fact that no one is going to save them....

Kerry is not coming back...that wasn't in the plan....do you see our "fiesty" spineless democratic leaders fighting ?...well there are a few who are ....but not enough to make a difference....

it's all a dog and pony show....we have one government under corporate rule and there are no two parties...that is just to keep the american public busy..fighting the wrong enemy.....wasting our time and money on a facade....

we have just witnessed the stealing of a second national election....OUR COUNTRY IS IN TROUBLE FOLKS....

9/11 is another example....3000 of our brothers and sisters dead....
NO ACCOUNTABILITY...

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO WAKE UP....THEY ARE HITTING US OVER THE HEAD WITH IT ......

PLEASE STAND UP AND FIGHT...PLEASE

[Chimpanzee]

36. I'm not having trouble coming to grips with anything

Kerry should be happy he doesn't end up having to deal with Bush's messes.

But to think the dems learned nothing in 4 years of the ruthlessness and lawlessness of the republican party - I think you need to think again. I would not be at all surprised if the dems aren't working on this as quietly as they can. I refuse to believe that this is all there is. If it turns out that way - then I work %100 for voting reform and consistency for all 50 states. That no matter who is inaugurated on 1/20/05, is the most important issue the democrats need to face or we might as well let them tatto our gulag number on our forearms right now.

[Slit Skirt]

39. hey Chimpanzee....like I said before

I hope your right....cause if I am right.....were screwed.

[frustrated_lefty]

40. Who cares?

Wild speculation like this doesn't do us any good, and it makes us look like tinfoil hat specialists. We need hard data, we need it soon, and we need a minimum in terms of speculation. If you want to test your conjectures, examine the details, discover the truth, go to http://www.blackboxvoting.org and start helping crunch numbers in the counties. Rather than conjecturing, we could help find the truth.

[HuffleClaw]

41. Kerry's laying low a tactic to frame the story?

ok. If kerry had not conceded, the media would be focusing on KERRY, NOT the fraud. we'd be hearing stories about EVERY election he'd ever been a part of ad nauseum. this way, the TRUTH about the widespread blatant (and none too bright really) evoting shenanigans is allowed to surface, albeit slowly and without any real corporate media support. The facts don't lie. this daylight robbery has left more evidence than an episode of CSI, evidence that IS seeing the light of day. i'd even go so far as to suggest we're nearing a tipping point. Election results aside, this (and a couple other choice stories, namely halliburton and 911) will end up being the downfall of bush et al. remember, nixon was also re-elected.

[Chimpanzee]

42. Exactly!

[sandboxface]

43. Kerry or Not, we are going to get to the bottom of this election.

The only way we can get anything done is if we do it ourselves. We can no longer rely on politicians. People like Bev Harris inspire me. She's just like you and me, and she's making a difference. Where would we be without her?

It would be great if John Kerry joined us, but we don't have time to sit around and wait for him. Keep your eyes open. Let figure this out.

[GingerSnaps]

44. I thought that Kerry and Nader were friends from the Viet Nam era

Could it be that Nader ran because they both knew that something like this was going to happen?

[Magic_Cookie]

45. May not be So far fetched

Obviously from what I've seen on DU there are people who exceed my knowledge ten fold. At the same time, I've been pondering this thought, not actually about Nader but... that Kerry & the likes know of the 'bigger game' more than I do. They know they can't bring someone down in just a few weeks/months. Surely if you are playing the 'big game' you know that it takes years of planning, setting up etc (or is that some movie thing I've adopted?). I dunno, just seems it's bigger than most of us can grasp (or maybe just more than I can grasp?)
All the stuff that's been posted, I'm sure the opposition has also had access to & even been using to cover their tracks. If we wanna play big, we gotta think big & that we surely haven't done. Are we pawns in a bigger scheme - are we just tinfoils - are we telling them where they screwed up & where to cover up? I dunno, but I think we should consider the need to start thinking beyond 'the norm' if we really believe in this!

[noiretextatique]

52. they are friends

nader even told people to vote for kerry if they thought voting for him would help bush. unlike some, i am not totally cynical...yet.

[Trahurn]

47. Sorry But you are must not getting me excited

It all sounds very intriguing and hopeful bit I'll believe some official challenge to the election when I see it. You're not getting my hopes up for nothing only to have the dashed once again.

[Helga Scow Stern]

48. We are our own hopes and we won't stop till it's done, Kerry or no!

[Swamp Rat]

49. Shhhh!!!!!!

Keep it down! ;)

... and let's NOT call it "recount." Let's call it "Computer Vote Audit."

[Carolab]

50. Who the hell knows?

Who knows anything anymore? We are strangers in a strange land.

[noiretextatique]

53. anybody who believes kerry has given up is not paying attention

because guess what folks: all the votes still aren't counted!!! if there are recount requests (even if they are from nader or cobb or the libertarian) AFTER the votes are counted, kerry would be foolish to tip his hand now. do any of those who think it's all over remember gore in 2000? he never had a chance with the media stumbling all over themselves to make the case for bush. the last think we need is another media circus. i think kerry is playing it smart.